stories:
Table Manners
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Fork EtiquetteDoes using the right utensil even matter anymore? |
There is no reader question this week. Instead, Helena wants to set something right: cutlery.
When I tell people I write about etiquette, they often say, “Oh, like which fork to use?” But I’ve avoided covering this particular topic because I think modern etiquette is more about whether it’s OK to use your iPhone at the dinner table or how to encourage your roommates to recycle food containers. Nonetheless, the question remains: Is it important to know which fork to use?
The old-fashioned rule for place settings is simple: Use the implements on the outside first and work your way in. Spoons and forks that are set horizontally at the top are for dessert. But is it a big deal if you don’t know this?
Let’s put it in context. Until the second half of the 19th century, forks were rare in the United States, says Darra Goldstein, editor of Gastronomica magazine and cocurator of “Feeding Desire: Design and the Tools of the Table, 1500–2005,” at the Cooper-Hewitt, National Design Museum in New York. People generally used knives to cut and spear things, and, less commonly, spoons. It was only after the discovery of electroplating in the 1840s and the Comstock Lode silver ore deposits in the 1850s that forks became ubiquitous. By the late 19th century, elaborate place settings were used as a status symbol, and knowing what fork to use with the right food was essentially knowledge for the upwardly mobile. An industry emerged producing dozens of specialized implements, like marrow spoons and sardine forks.
These days, a surprising number of people don’t know the difference between a salad and an entrée fork. Christopher Losa, owner of San Francisco restaurant Bar Bambino, says approximately 30 percent of his customers use the wrong one. Another common mistake, says Annabel Day, a director and instructor at Jon D. Williams Cotillions, which offers adult etiquette courses, is that people commonly misuse their dessert spoon for mashed potatoes or soup.
A growing number of restaurants have stopped offering multiple knives, spoons, and forks, asking you to hold on to your knife and fork from course to course instead. This practice, says Losa, is designed to streamline service and save on dishwashing labor and hot water.
So is knowing what fork to use superfluous information these days? In at least one case Day knows of, somebody used the wrong utensil during a job interview and was not hired as a result. “If you’re incompetent at choosing the correct utensil,” says Day, “how will you be competent about making decisions in the workplace?” But people who teach etiquette courses for a living have a high stake in promoting this view.
If you’re in a situation like a very stuffy business dinner or an outing with highfalutin in-laws you’re reaching to impress, you might as well keep in mind the outside-in rule, which is very simple to remember anyway. But beyond that type of situation, the importance is low. The only other reason you might want to use the “right” utensil is for your own sensual enjoyment. “The soup spoon exists because it gives you the ability to have a complete mouthful of soup components versus the smaller dessert size,” explains Losa. But if we’re talking about the sensual joys of eating, I’d suggest using your fingers as well.
"If you’re in a situation like a very stuffy business dinner or an outing with highfalutin in-laws you’re reaching to impress"
Lunch ... Brioni ... shovel-clutch.
It's even more astounding after dark ... the poor girl.
I know full well about the proper utensils and their correct usage; my parents taught me when I was very young.
I use the smaller spoons on purpose because they are easier to eat with; often times these gigantic soup spoons simply don't fit the mouth and you end up dribbling the contents down your chin.
Oh, and there's no joy in eating food with your fingers; I've rarely found the mess worth the experience.
I was taught the proper use and order of utensils when I was very young. Generally speaking, I still follow form. But, if someone is going to *judge* me based on these “high-fallutin’” rules then I have no time for them. Someone who is going to look down their nose at me because I used a spoon out of order is not someone I would care to even try to impress.
I can hear it now –
“Sorry, we will not hire you because you did not use the butter knife to butter your roll.”
or
“You’d better not use your salad fork for anything other than salad, or you’re fired!”
Ultimately table manners are important, but it can be taken too far. Relax! :-)
Unless you will be in the diplomatic circles, involved in fundraising, party planning or being kept, or, of course, teaching table manners, it is rare to dine with a prospective employer prior to hiring.
The basic rule remains: if you don't know, watch the (senior) person nearest you and follow their lead. At least that proves that you know how to follow direction and fit in without making a scene. This applies to eating with your fingers too (although too much mimicry may be seen less as flattering than turning one's nose a deeper shade of brown).
Just remember when slurping your soup from the bowl, "When in doubt, pinkies out".
@BeerWeezil: Actually, soup spoons aren't supposed to go in the mouth. You sip from the side of the spoon, tilting the spoon so you don't have to slurp. Ain't rules for rules' sake grand?
Love the article and the history lesson! I don't mind the use of wrong utensils, and i very much applaud that the rules would evolve into greener practices (keeping your fork to save dishwashing). My biggest beef (haha) is when people make a lot of noise with their utensils. clanking the spoon in the bowl, coffeecup as if it's a bell; scraping the last bit off the dessert plate like it's about to run away from you -- i think that is truly rude. And don't even get me started on the slurp and chew noises people make while eating!
Basically i think it boils down to (haha) when people demonstrate a lack of respect for other people's space - whether physical, auditory, whatever- If you are not aware that you are calling attention to yourself, it's rudeness.
Has anyone ever heard why there is a difference between Europe and US? Here, you cut with knife in right hand and fork in left and then switch the fork to right hand for eating the cut piece. There, you never change hands or put down the knife.
I heard somewhere that this was done in Revolutionary days as yet another way to be separate, and could have been a kind of underground signal to express allegiance as a Patriot. It was done with the same kind of motivation as spelling changes (colour -> color) that were engineered into our national identity.
Thoughts?
Maybe those in Europe don't put the knife down and change hands because they are afraid someone will steal their knife... or grab it and stab them with it! LOL... that's a good question though. I was born in the UK and was taught to eat with knife and fork in hand, but adapted to the North American way of using the fork in my right hand when eating casually at home.
I googled... this theory is interesting:
It's a throwback to the old "wild" west. It was considered barbaric and rude to hold a weapon in your right hand at the table. So Americans began putting their knives down after cutting the meat so as to put the people they're dining with at ease.
I get the whole saving water thing, but I do have to say that I dislike putting a dirty knife or fork on the table to save it for a later course. I don't mind putting a knife on my bread plate, but that's about as far as I go.
I don't care if all my cutlery is set out at the beginning, but if I use a fork or knife on one course, I need it replaced for the next one. For some reason, I've had problems with servers not replacing my cutlery.
interesting, Fizzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I'll have to do some research too. I'm a little sceptical that holding a weapon in your left hand was more accepted, since most people are not lefties, but I love the historical research into conventions that we all take for granted.
You know, there's a difference between manners and etiquette. Etiquette requires you to know the formalities, and it's the basis of power and status displays. Manners are what smooth out relationships and make everyone's experience more enjoyable.
I'm from the Deep South, and my mother has a story about a college friend who was invited to dine with a very wealthy upper-class lady. The lady's arrangement included fingerbowls - old-fashioned bowls for women to dip their fingers in before dining. Not having met with this practice before, my mother's friend drank from hers. Instead of pointing out her mistake, the lady drank from hers as well, to set the friend at ease.
great story and point well made, Cap'n!
Captain--that's a famous story, and one which remains appropriate.
The flatware proliferation in the Victorian period was either a manifestation of conspicuous consumption or a way to differentiate "us" from "those people". A FISH knife and fork, for Pete's sake? Well, if you must use a fork in the left hand, I suppose the right needs to be occupied.
Spearing things with one's knife, ummm, I had read that rounded-off knives were fashionable way back, the trend being started by Cardinal Richelieu to prevent his guests from picking their teeth with the dinner knives. Might even be true.
The fingerbowl story must go back a ways. A form of it appears in Twain's The Prince and the Pauper.
Fish knives and forks are useful if the fish has bones.
Not everybody eats fillets.
They're designed for surgical removal of the bones and dealing with the heads if the fish are served with those still attached.
touche, beerweezil and gdavis---as well as the whole manners vs. etiquette. I, too, abhor eating with my fingers when I wind up wearing more food in my teeth, under the nails, and on my face than goes down the esophagus! I find it awkward to save a fork used for salad if they take the only piece of dinnerware you may have. Place it on the table, hold it in my hand discreetly under the table, rest it on the wine glass foot, or put it on the (only) napkin? Yup, just my opinion, and I have been accused of being prissy. I don't make a scene or call attention to others' behavior. Just a choice not to put on lipstick, text, or use the phone while at the table. Aren't you glad we aren't all alike? LOL, my sis loves paper plates, paper napkins, and eating with her fingers!
It is fairly simple. In formal situations involving multiple utensils they are set up in order of use from outside to inside.
What is a problem with restaurants is that even if they give you several forks, too often they are identical, so there is no "salad" fork.
It's good to know the correct utensils to use, but one should always be flexible. For convinience, if I don't have a soup spoon, I'll generally use my dessert spoon, if there is one, rather than asking for a soup spoon. Generally the only time I'd actually request the proper utensil is if I don't have a clean substitute available. The server/buser should make sure that each diner has all the utensils he or she needs for each course, so if someone has used their entree fork for the salad, a new entree fork should be provided. Often it's the restaurant that sets the table incorrectly or does something else weird like ask you to keep your utensils from one course to the next (the absolute worst is when a server/buser takes a utensil from your plate as it's being cleared and sets it down on the table for the next course - no thanks).
In law, dining as part of the interview process is fairly common, so it's good to know enough not to embarass oneself or one's hosts. Unless you're talking about a really uptight hiring partner or a very special case, generally all the firm is interested in is whether you can generally be trusted to be in public as a representative of the firm and not embarass yourself or them. No one is really going to care if you accidentally use the wrong fork, but they will care if you don't use your fork at all.
HR people who use the dining venue as part of their hiring process, often DO look for specific "skillsets" that signal the urbane and sophisticated among their choice of hires. The higher the potential salary, the more important and precise your etiquette must be. I spent 3 years working for an international company and training my underlings on how to behave at the table with "The Europeans" when they visited.
From the not-too-distance past (the 1980s) there was a Fortune 500 company notorious for a strict dress code and an unwritten but widely known hiring standard. They would take a candidate to lunch or dinner and watch carefully just after the food arrived. If the candidate automatically grabbed the salt shaker and started sprinkling his/her food, it indicated that this was a person who judged too quickly, and this small quirk would count against them in the final analysis.
And for those who think this should not matter, well, its so easy to learn the "correct" way to do things, for business purposes, and advance your career in the process. You can lick your knife and eat with your fingers at home.
For the record captainberlin, your mother's story about her friend and the fingerbowl is an apocryphal one that's been making the rounds forever. I've seen versions in which the host in the story has been anyone from Queen Elizabeth I to Eleanor Roosevelt. But of course, the reason it's so popular is that it teaches a good lesson: good manners are never, ever used to make someone else feel inferior. As you correctly point out, there is a difference between manners and etiquette.
Pinkies NOT out. That's a low-class misperception. Pinkies stay IN, when drinking tea or anything else. Does the Queen of England stick her pinky out? No, she does not. So don't you do it either
There are many different etiquettes based on country or region. So people can argue this forever.
When eating somewhere, you are subject to their etiquette rules. just watch, don't be quick, and appreciate everything you have.
Miss Renie, I was being facetious. I'm pretty sure the Queen of England doesn't care where her pinkies are positioned when "slurping soup from the bowl". Actually, it's a direct quote from Patrick Star of Spongebob Squarepants fame. (Yes I'm 46 years old and yes I watch it).
Ha, is it really? Oh well, I guess my mother's point was still made.
cap - your mom is a liar.
hm