stories:
Table Manners
 |
Am I Drinking Too Much?Keeping pace with the host |
Dear Helena,
At dinner parties, if the hosts don’t offer, is it OK to ask for another drink? And if your hosts do offer but are not drinking, or not drinking more than a single drink, how much is it OK to drink? And, conversely, if you have guests who don’t drink, or don’t drink much, how much is it OK to drink? —Tentative Tippler
Dear Tentative Tippler,
As a guest, you should never have to ask for a drink. The host should put a drink in your hand within five minutes of your arrival. Thereafter he should ask if you want another whenever your glass is empty, or put the bottle within easy reach so you can refresh your drink yourself. As a side note, if you do pour yourself another splash, you should always ask others present if they want one too. It sounds so obvious, and yet people don’t always do it.
If your host lets you get thirsty, there are two possible explanations: Either he lacks basic hosting skills, or he’s sending you a message of some sort. If the former is the case, you’re probably better off going home and having a nightcap there. This may sound harsh, but the way people take care of guests can tell you a lot about them. I’ve noticed that sensitive and giving folks are always quick to take care of guests’ drinks, whether that means pouring more wine or bringing out a pitcher of water. Hosts who don’t notice their guests’ empty glasses are often a touch self-absorbed.
If, on the other hand, your host is sending you a message, then it’s likely you’ve had enough to drink or the party’s over. Either way, you shouldn’t ask for a top-up.
I’ve made it pretty clear that keeping the drinks flowing is Dinner Party 101. But if you’re the host, how do you know how much booze to stock? Chowhounds have done the math already. You can find various drinks calculators online. Or you can use the caterers’ rule of thumb: According to Chappall Gage, general manager of Susan Gage Caterers in Maryland, you should allow three to four drinks per person for a seated dinner.
As a guest, if you’re worried about running out of alcohol, bring two bottles of wine instead of the more typical one. To prevent your host from stashing your offering in the cupboard, just mention that you’re extremely excited about trying it.
Guests and their hosts certainly need not drink at the same pace, because people have different tolerance levels. However, if someone is not drinking at all, whether guest or host, you should limit your intake to three drinks. As I’ve explained before, it makes for better dinner conversation if everyone present stays on roughly the same chemical wavelength.
It’s better to overestimate how much alcohol to have on hand rather than having to run out to the store in the middle of the party. But as the host, if you notice you’ve run dry and you want the evening to continue, you should slip out to the corner store. (Only do this as a last resort though, and don’t announce where you’re going, because people might feel bad and tell you not to. Just ask one of your friends or your partner to entertain the guests in your absence.) Running to the store might seem like a hassle, but it’s better than digging out that dusty bottle of peach schnapps you bought in 1998.
I think that's thoughtful advice, to only have three drinks when you have sober guests. It means the sober person won't start to feel left out and bored as the evening wears on, but you're not feeling resentful because you feel you 'can't' have a drink. When we have non-drinking guests over we try to have some interesting non-alcoholic drinks on hand, something like sparkling grape juice that comes in an attractive bottle and looks pretty in a wine glass. The payoff for treating your sober guests well (aside from the fact that, they're your guests, it's the least you should be doing!) is that they can drive, and may be willing to do the quick nip to the shop for you!
If my husband & I are hosting a party, we would never overdue our own drinking let alone encourage our guests to get sloshed. One, two cocktails/beer then we switch to non alcoholic drinks, coffee. We like to send our guests home safe & sound.
If the occasionally guests needs to sleep it off, we offer up the sofabed. The thought of being even a small contributing factor to a guest drinking too much would not sit right with me.
I wish my guests wouldn't drink so much. They drink all my booze and try to makeout with my cat. revolting!
Oh Matt, that NJ humor gets me every time!
I'm sorry, but any wine you bring to a dinner party is a gift to the host, unless it has been agreed upon beforehand that you will supply wine for the dinner. Your hosts are under no obligation to serve what you bring, hints or not. Also, if "you're worried about running out of booze" at a dinner at someone else's house, you need to learn to adapt to different environments and deal with laying off the sauce for a single meal.
Years ago a Vegitarian was expected to eat what ever little they could at someone else's table and not to make a fuss - even if this ment having a small dinner for themselves before they came over. Today the host is expected to find out their guest's eating preferences and to make a meal all their guests will enjoy (alleregies have had a lot to do with this as well). For many reasons Drinking is becoming a new, complicated, topic for hosts and their guests. But it would be odd for a host to ask guests, prior to comming over, what kind of drinker they are. I suggest when recieving an invitation for a dinner party that the guest should inquire if they should bring over a bottle of wine or what-have-you. This will allow the host to indicate what sort of evening they are having "I already have some", "The more booze the better", "feel free, but just so you know my minister is comming over and he doesn't drink".
If a host wants to limit drinking, but not be prudish, always offer one last round before cutting off your guests and always have a non-alchohlic beverage available for a night-cap. "Would anybody like one more drink before I put on some Tea?" This will allow people to have something to drink with their dinner if they choose, but keep you from having to worry about drunk guests.
As a waiter I've noticed many trends in regards to drinking with company. Many people stop at one drink when they are with guests who don't drink or don't drink much, while I find that prudish, the trend seems to be going in this direction. If you're using a three drink maximum rule due to mixed company with non-drinkers, pay attention to the other moderate drinkers to see when they stop. Two drinks in mixed company may be a safer rule. All this is comming from a drinker too, so I am not trying to force prudish behaviour. I have also noticed that when my parties head towards druken fun for the drinkers, the non/moderate drinkers oftyen find a polite reason to leave.
If I am hosting and I feel that there is going to be a fair amount of drinking (many friends are within walking distance mind you) I tell people that I will have some stuff to drink, but they are better off BYOB. I know it sounds like a cop out, but if I am taking care of most of the food, I am not going to be supplying all the goof juice. I really have had no one have a problem with this.
There is nothing prudish or policing about hosting with an emphasis on balanced drinking. Gosh. I care about my family & friends enough to keep the alcohol offered reasonable. Who needs to keep pace with excess?
HillJ: The problem with a claim like that is that there is a lot of variance on what constitutes "balanced" from one person to another. For example, I have friends who are clearly not sober after one drink, and friends who are perfectly fine after six.
My friends are not children; they can decide how much they wish to drink, provided that they're not becoming rowdy / embarrassing, which has only happened extremely rarely.
Sure they can decide how much they wish to drink as adults. I just believe that applies to when they are in my home. We offer cocktails, beer and then we offer coffee/tea/water. I enjoy guests who stay sober during a party, don't you?
This is not a claim dear Vorpal. It's just a preference while hosting a party in my home.
Well, thankfully, HillJ, your guests are probably aware of this, and probably on the same wavelength as you.
Personally, I would not, nor have I ever, run out of alcohol at a party I am hosting, let alone stop serving any because I have decided the limit for everyone else.
Clearly, people who like to drink - as well as people who don't -- hang in crowds where they feel comfortable.
Somebody I know once had a New Year's eve party, and she announced weeks beforehand that they would be consfiscating keys at the door and would be doling them back out at the end of the evening based on whether she thought people were capable of driving.
I'd been to her wedding reception- there were a couple hundred people there and a 3-liter box of pink wine.
I admit to being an old anarchist, and I just can't picture myself enjoying myself around somebody who thinks that way in general.
Again CHOW friends, I'm not talking about policing a party.
Thank you for the exchange of ideas. Cheers :)
Well, HillJ, if it's your party you can call the shots. It's your right and your privelege and anybody should respect that.
I wasn't replying to your post, for the record. I think that to say "I enjoy guests who stay sober during a party, don't you?" is really quite passive aggressive, don't you?
Hosts have a right to decide what kind of party they want to have. No one has a God (or Helena) granted right to get blotto at every occasion. If you are so upset that there isn't enough booze at a party that you have to leave, then you have a problem. Bars are for drinking. Parties are for being with your friends and other interesting people (if the other people aren't interesting, drinking won't make them more so).
EWS, I don''t have a passive agressive bone in my body. But, online discourse has no tone. Giving a fellow CH the same courtesy you would face to face is how I roll. I was asking Vorpal a direct question in response to his reply. I hope he returns to answer for himself. I happen to enjoy his food blog a great deal. Cheers!
Good topic this time. My question to those who do not drink much is: How much can a host drink when his/her guests do not. Some time ago I had guests over and prepared a fairly elabourate meal for which, I felt, wine was called for. My guests, who drink on occasion, decided that they did not want wine with this meal - OK fine by me, but I decided to go ahead and open a bottle. My partner at the time decided to join our guests in abstaining.
Imagine my shock when after the evening I discovered that one of our guests had asked my partner whether I had a drinking problem ?!?! Apparently they felt that if the rest of them decided against wine then I should as well. (For the record I had two glasses of wine with the dinner - and I am a fairly big guy. I felt really rather off-put by this and it was a long time before I was comfortable with them again.
Was I out of line to drink wine when no one else was, even in my own home?
It doesn't sound like you were out of line, a problem may be not that you had a couple of glasses of wine, but that you apparently got a couple of judgemental guests. Are you sure they drink on occasion? Maybe a beer between them? That's not very much to somebody who's another kind of moderate drinker.
Somebody above mentioned that 'casual drinking' is a very subjective term, and I've sure found that to be the case. Near-alcoholics have a vastly different take on how much alcohol is moderate compared to near-abstainers. Even the terms I used are up for debate.
One thing I'll say, and you might now agree, is that it's usually no fun being the only one in a gathering that's drinking. For several reasons, not the least of which is what you experienced..
Alcohol is almost as sensitive as fat these days--it's so hard to please people. I love wine, but I also read the fine print when I have to take medications, and they often warn against combinations with alcohol. I suggest that what makes a wonderful dinner party is the food and good company; as long as everyone is drinking what makes them happy, including the host, who has offered wine to people who declined, why should there be any fuss or problem? If the point of the evening is to drink, choose different companions.
EWS is right, too, in observing what different ideas people have about drinking. I sometimes make a punch, and offer a "leaded" or "unleaded" version. This is good because those of us who just can't handle a lot--I had hepatitis as a teenager and my liver dictates one drink per evening--can enjoy feeling part of the party. But it's also delicious, festive, and beautiful in pitchers or in the antique punch bowl that was my mother's. It's simple, too--just make a double batch of punch and substitute ginger ale for champagne in one, or use lemon-lime soda instead of rum. Use the same garnishes. Skol!
I don't get it. How can you be friends with someone and not have a basic understanding of how sloshy they think an evening has to be to qualify as 'fun'? How can you be friends with someone and not give a rip if your behavior is upsetting them? Why should anyone beyond junior college age have to ask if they're drinking too much?
I don't like the feeling of being drunk, don't like to be around people who are wasted, but one of my best friends in the world is happiest when he's glowing and a bit boozy. He doesn't act like a jerk, so it's fine with me.
What saacnmama said.
I drink one drink when I'm out socially, and I usually make sure it's a really nice one - great glass of wine or fine single malt scotch, for example. I don't feel uncomfortable with other people drinking. Some of my friends are quite charming when they're inebriated.
The only thing I object to is when someone drinks to the point where they are being disrespectful or obnoxious to others, or have to be taken care of. This happens rarely as my friends tend to be pretty considerate and mature.
I offer one nice cocktail early in the evening, and then beer and wine all night, along with pitchers of iced teas and soft drinks The people who always drink too much will anyway, and the people who only have a couple will maintain that discipline. I guess we're lucky, I've never felt the need to 'police' who's drinking and driving.
Re: wine that I'm bringing to an event - I usually bring a bottle in a gift bag for the host, and then a bottle 'for the table'.
HillJ: Sorry for not providing a response sooner. As for your question, frankly, whether the guests remain sober or not depends on the guests. For example, my father and my aunt both enjoy drinking to excess several times a year, and when they do they're both delightful: my aunt is a high school biology teacher and my father a retired physics professor, and the conversation often turns to theoretical physics and its ties to eastern religion, and is fascinating. I myself used to like to drink to excess (I no longer do due to health reasons), but was told by nearly all of my friends and family that I was quite charming and pleasant when inebriated.
On the other hand, I have a friend who also likes to drink to excess, and at least a quarter of the time, when she does, she becomes quite a chore and requires (and actually demands) significant amounts of babysitting, which is tedious to either I or my partner when other guests are over. Unfortunately, she's a very good friend who really enjoys drinking and she's very sensitive to any kind of criticism, so there's no easy way to deal with this situation.
So, in any case, it's certainly not black-and-white. I think it can be a lot of fun to have parties where the alcohol flows freely, and it can also be fantastic to have evenings where the focus is on other forms of entertainment. It really depends on the crowd and what you're looking to get out of the event.
hi vorpal, thank you for returning & expanding on your point of view.
I appreciate knowing a bit more about where you are coming from. When guests come to my home I know they feel welcome. I offer both alcoholic & non alcoholic provisions. When it's time to wrap up the evening, I've made it a habit to also place about an hour beforehand freshly brewed coffee, a tea selection, cold water & juice at the bar. Friends & family appreciate it.
Dh & I have friends who become the life of the party after a glass or two of wine and friends who spend the night in the bathroom after two beers. You're right, it's not a b&w situation. But as host, more importantly a host in my own home, I will always side on the side of less is more regarding alcohol. Just my way. Not policing, just caring. Best to you & thanks for the thai recipes re your blog.
Damn, I don't even *know* anyone who doesn't drink heavily, regularly. Sigh.
I appreciate the sensitivity and growing awareness to the topic. Some great ideas all around.
As one who now abstains, I feel quite uncomfortable when the host abstains out of deference to me. My reasons for doing so are my own, and I prefer for others to consume as they would were I not present. If I am uncomfortable for any reason, then I can always excuse myself at an appropriate point in the evening.
What I think is interesting is that this kind of topic would most likely not come up in any other country in the world. If you need to limit alcohol at a party, then the assumption is your friends are not adult enough to handle their own drinking.
Helena,
For a host to serve the wine that guests bring is definitely bad etiquette! So how could bringing two bottles make any difference?
A host will chose the wine that best complements the food they'll be serving, and serve it over the course of the evening.
Wine brought by guests will not be picked to complement the food and is a guest for the host, not something for the guest themselves to enjoy...hardly a gift otherwise, is it?
And why this assumption that dinner party = drinking? It doesn't have to. In fact, if the hosts aren't big drinkers themselves, is it really so hard for guests to enjoy food and conversation without a lot of alcohol on offer?
I can't recall the last time I was at a dinner party where an issue of number of drinks would come up during the meal. Usually there is wine on the table; people top up their own glasses. Or the host serves but again it's topping up. No big deal to refuse or to not drink at all. No one really notices an imbalance unless someone gets sloshed.
Cocktails before dinner are a slightly different matter. It seems a bit rude to ask for a second if no one else is having one.
If you remember how you got home, you didn't drink enough.
I am a non-drinker.....recovering alcoholic, and still do attend and have dinner parties serving alcohol. I am perfectly at ease with guests who do not drink to excess. Very often, though, I am with people who really drink a lot (my husband is a moderate drinker) and I become very bored and overwhelmed when the drinking gets out of hand. So, I would advise non-drinkers to leave when this happens, if possible. I think it is very poor etiquette to drink to excess when there are non-drinking guests and so agree with the suggestions. Self serve wine on the table seems to make sure that no one is looking for their next drink and is more relaxing for everyone.
Gransters
Congratulations and yes, leave when it gets out of hand. I used to think I was being really clever by offering to be designated driver for concerts and sports events, since I get too tired if I drink over a prolonged period anyway. Then I wound up cooling my heels at 2 am with a bunch of drunks who don't want to go home.
A dinner party shouldn't get that way unless all parties are comfortable with it and no one is driving. It's not for that long, and food is the focus.
Drink does, often, make other people more interesting....and tolerable.
The human race has not devised any way of dissolving barriers, getting to know the other chap fast, breaking the ice, that is one-tenth as handy and efficient as letting you and the other chap, or chaps, cease to be totally sober at about the same rate in agreeable surroundings.
- Kingsley Amis