stories : Table Manners
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Is Saving Tables Wrong?On throwing down a jacket while you wait in line |
Dear Helena,
I like to have lunch at a busy downtown spot with only 12 tables. You line up to get your food and then seat yourself. The place is always packed, and as I stand in line, I grow increasingly anxious, scanning the room in hopes a table will open up.
Other people often claim a table before they’re done in line, either by dumping a bag or jacket there or, if they’re not alone, by seating one or more members of their party. I know on the grand scale this is a minor breach of ethics, but it still seems wrong. In crowded, cafeteria-style restaurants, is it acceptable to mark your table before you’re done in line? —Awkward Wanderer with Tray
Dear Awkward Wanderer with Tray,
In some parts of the country, it’s common practice to claim a table before you get your food. Not so in the South. George Mickelis, owner of Cleburne Cafeteria, in Houston, Texas, observes: “It’s been the same here since 1941. You get in line, you place your order, and then you take a seat … except with older customers that need assistance.”
Sara Dima, a native Texan and general manager of the popular City Bakery in New York, says that queuing is done differently in NYC. “It’s more important [to New Yorkers] that you get what you want. ... We have seen some elbows thrown.”
In an ideal world, the physically able would all practice Texas-style queuing. It’s simply more efficient. When you mark a table in a restaurant, that table is being wasted while you stand in line. New York–style queuing is also unfair to solo diners: Without a companion to claim their table, they must either risk losing their property or forgo the chance to grab a seat in advance.
Even in regions where seat-saving is considered impolite, if you’re physically incapable of standing in line, it’s OK for you to sit down while another member of your party orders. Those who are old, infirm, or heavily pregnant should take a seat, and so should those with small children (it might seem unfair that people with children get special privileges, but it’s even more annoying to have small children squealing while you try to order your sandwich).
Texas-style queuing, then, seems to be in the interests of the group, but it’s difficult to enforce. Although restaurants could post signs prohibiting customers from taking seats before they have their food, most places don’t want to risk alienating diners. Dima points out that the City Bakery is “self-service and self-seating. ... It’s between customers to choose whose seat is whose.”
As with many market systems, cheaters get an advantage. If there are a few people who do save themselves a table, then those who follow the rules lose out, politely waiting their turn while others snag the best seats.
One solution might be for the restaurant to make standing in line so interesting that no one frets about where to sit. Boston-based chain Finagle a Bagel has a device called a Bagel Buzzsaw. You pick your bagel, and it’s placed on a conveyor belt. Halfway along, a spinning, circular blade halves the bagel and propels it to the other end of the conveyor belt with such force that the bagel practically flies through the air. Then someone catches it and slathers it with topping. This process is so hypnotizing that you might not even think of looking for a table.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
There's already a fairly extensive discussion of this topic on the Not About Food board: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/505365
If saving yourself a seat so that you can starts eating as soon as you get your food (which means you're outta there quicker), I see no harm in it. But in a busy place like a NYCity deli, where EVERYONE is in a hurry, you're always going to find someone who thinks this isn't "fair". And hoarding seats for your not-yet-arrived friends and depriving someone who HAS their food of a place to sit and eat it, is not nice.
The Cleburne cafeteria folks have it right -- Im a NYer but live in Houston, and I like the fact that everyone shares, is polite and waits their turn. Of course these are bigger venues, with usually plenty of tables, and I've NEVER had to wait for a place to sit. In NY City, if you snooze you lose, and everyone is more interested in being efficient than polite.
I like the method Pei Wei (yes, folks, its a chain) uses. You line up and place your order, then someone shows you to a table with your order number on a plastic disk. You wait (not long) and someone else brings you your food. The staff controls who takes which table and you dont need to worry about saving a seat. Its quite efficient, even during peak times. If you seem to be sitting in your spot a little too long, the staff is prompt but polite in offering you more tea or a "to go" box. I notice that Pei Wei has not (yet) reached NY/CT/NJ area, so it remains to be seen how that might work up there.
Thanks to BobB for posting the link. People make lots of good arguments for and against marking tables and also cite regional differences. Hardly anyone mentioned what they would do (or have done) if they were in a situation where they had hot food and a limited amount of time to eat and there were no free tables, but some that were marked. Personally, if I were alone, I would ask another solo diner if I could join them. If there were no people I could easily join, or if I was with another person, I would just go ahead and sit down at a table, mark or no. In crowded places, people are used to sharing tables anyway. Probably by the time they came back, a new table would open or I would just apologize and blame the situation. I think you'd have to be really aggro for it to blow up into a confrontation. I think, as a person who marks a table, you do take the risk that someone will ignore your mark.
What bugs me is when you are in a bar and people will be sitting at a table with 4 empty chairs pulled up to it and say they are waiting for their friends when all other chairs are taken up in the place. If someone asks and my friends aren't there, they can have the seat.
One of my favorite places here in SF is really popular and has a limited amount of seating. People *mostly* obey Texas (don't you love the Texans?) style seating and I've never been stuck w/o a table when the food is brought to me. This sort of fine balance of a availability seems hard to strike but it never fails.
I think it depends on the city, the place and just how crowded it is. When I visited England for the first time many years ago I was amazed at how strangers sat at the same table. While practical, I don't see that happening across the pond. Strangers are far too territorial in this country. It boils down to something called cosideration and sadly that's one thing that isn't inherent.
Father's Office in Santa Monica and Culver City , CA, can be nuts. Santa Monica is smaller, and worse. Line up to get in, order at the bar, hang out and look for an open table. First to sit gets it.
I find it Maddening, but I think I'd find a "Saver" just as piss-off-ifying.
Then again, 'tis the nature of the beast and the atmosphere the owner wanted for his "gastropub". I just end up not going there, and trust me, the owner isn't missing my $$, not by a longshot.
Still, I like the texas system best. I also like communal tables. Sometimes, you meet the most interesting people!
Jeez- isn't there anywhere else to go to lunch? The Texas system is the only reasonable one, self-important megalomaniacs can go to hell for all I care. If somebody did that in a crowded small restaurant I'd just go ahead and sit down with them. I'd probably dislike the company, but probably not as much as the rude people. And hey, let's get real. If you're older or infirm or pregnant, go at an odd time. You aren't the princess.
I'm with the politeness factor and sharing goes with that as well.
Teaching good manners to children also falls into this category being that they are not special,priveleged or entitled to anything.
It's called waiting your turn. You'll understand it when you're grown up.
What I meant to say was- If you're older or infirm or pregnant, and want to go to that place, knowing how mobbed and rude it is, try to go at an odd time. I didn't mean to relegate you to odd times, I try to go to those places at early or late times myself.
Why can't we all just practice the golden rule?
To me, the golden rule implies that you treat elderly/infirm/heavily pregnant people with the same consideration you would like if you were in the same situation?
I agree, irishgirl, but it would be wise not to count on it from others.
I don't!
Yes, children need to learn to wait their turn, but when they're tired, hungry, have been doing something boring (yes, sometimes I have to run errands that don't fascinate my little one) is hardly the time to force it on them. My 5-yr-old is figuring it out now, but when he was little(r) I was occasionally stunned at the unkindness of some people, which usually got more extreme if he expressed his discomfort (I'm lucky he was never a real screamer, have seen the nasty looks some self-centered folks toss other parents who are being entirely reasonable with fussy babes). Seems to me if you've been on the planet longer, you've had more time to learn to be considerate. Of course I tried to plan to go places at less busy times, but as anyone who's spent time taking care of a child can tell you, accidents happen. Sometimes right down your front, sometimes it's just a bump on little one's head.
Shaking up the regional analysis here a bit, we found more consideration in large Eastern cities than in the TX panhandle where the attitude seems to be "my family doesn't rely on outside help, why should we help you?" Not only do I like (and teach my son) to be helpful, we don't have the extended network of grans and cousins people here assume.
Given my preference, I'd go for European-style table-sharing. I sometimes force it by saying hi and sitting down or inviting tray-carrying wanderers to join us. People are often flustered by the "invite" and take a couple minutes to figure out that they're being offered a seat, not a friendship.
Diana, the tables at Father's Office ARE communal tables. Since you've never been there (even though you constantly write about it), you wouldn't know.
from the comments above, i see most venues being bars, delis, max 100 person occupancy places.....
i'm from the suburbs of toronto, canada ... there's a particular food court (about 15 independent asian vendors) with about 200-250 seats .... almost all customers are chinese (cantonese/mandarin speaking) and a few non-chinese ..... my friends and i go here each sunday because of the WIDE variety of asian foods (all parts of china, taiwanese, korean, japanese, viet, thai...).. we go in groups of at least 10 sometimes 20 ... and often we'll save tables/seats (the place is arranged cafeteria style, with long tables and fixed chairs/stools) .... sometimes the seats are all together, but more often than not, they're broken down in groups of 6 or so....since the foodcourt is very full
the thing is, we're often asked "is anyone sitting here?" in which case, we say "yes" (very seldomly we'll give it up unless it's an elder senior or a flustered mother, etc.) .... but there doesn't seem to be many issues with it and the wanderer tends to find another spot rather quickly...
on the flip side, if there are no spots available, we wait until a spot frees up (i suppose this happens more often in a larger seating area than a smaller one)... so that may contribute to this "saving system" working out nicely too...
so i find, it's often a matter of culture and knowing where u are being sensitive to that. whether it's in nyc, texas, toronto, etc.... although, when u move in packs, u tend to bring your tendencies with you subconsciously .... e.g. when a group of friends and i went to katz deli in nyc and first grabbed a table before heading to the counter.... hahaha, it was our natural instinct
PlatypusJ - is it necessary to sound off in such a bitchy manner to Diana? I have been to Father's Office [Montana] and those tables are mostly small two & four tops and hardly conducive to plonking yourself down with another couple (tho I would ask, for sure.)
My point is - it's not as if they are long, communal-style tables there, tho obviously communal seating is acceptable (given the avail seating limitations).
umm, I HAVE been to FO. No one was sharing any of the teeny tables the times I've been. The new one is supposed to be bigger, but the bar is the only "obvious" communal area there, too.
See, this is why I ALWAYS bring a padlock with me to restaurants, so I can lock down the handicapped stall so it's empty for when I need to use it.
What? I thought everyone did this?