stories : Table Manners
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Leftovers: The Career KillerDoes bringing your lunch hurt your chances for success? |
Dear Helena,
This coworker of mine, who is above me in the company hierarchy, usually brings her lunch to work—leftovers in Tupperware. The other day she asked me, somewhat seriously, whether it didn’t make her look less “successful” to bring her lunch, and whether it might hurt her in climbing the corporate ladder. I’d never thought about it before that moment, but then I wondered—did it? Don’t you have to look successful to be successful? —Concerned About My Friend’s Climb Through Middle Management
Dear Concerned About My Friend,
Bringing leftovers in Tupperware is like wearing an old cardigan to work: There’s nothing wrong with it, but it doesn’t project power and success. What you eat can send a subliminal message about who you are, just as much as what you wear. As Beverly Langford, author of The Etiquette Edge: The Unspoken Rules for Business Success, says: “Your lunch is part of your nonverbal communication, just like your jewelry.”
So what kind of meal says “management material”? The ideal lunch is expensive. “Having sushi delivered to the office reeks of power—and wasabi,” says Stan McElrae, creative director in a San Antonio advertising firm. By contrast, a Tupperware of last night’s lasagne makes it look like you’re struggling. “Those who pack a lunch are … typically crunched for cash,” claims Rupert, a legislative aide to a senator in Washington, DC, who did not want his real name used.
Your lunch should also be easy to consume. Langford recommends a sandwich, explaining: “You can eat it quickly; it makes you look like you’re a go-getter and you want to save time.” You shouldn’t bring lunch, because that could suggest you’re not completely focused on your work. People will know that you chose to spoon chicken fricassee into a container rather than get to the office five minutes earlier. Says McElrae: “I don’t think about that kind of thing when I get up in the morning; I’m thinking about whether I’ll get to Starbucks and what work I have to do that day.”
Another reason not to bring your own lunch is that it sets you apart. “It means you can never go to lunch with anyone,” Langford says. “It sends a signal: ‘Don’t invite me to go out with you.’” Even if your colleagues bring their food back and eat with you in the office, you’re still isolating yourself by eating separate food. Langford remembers: “I had a colleague once who was vegetarian and always brought her lunch. It was like a statement, ‘I’m different.’ It was tiresome.”
Most important of all, never bring anything smelly. Langford says, “One of the biggest complaints about working together is smells.” Sam, a legislative aide in Washington, DC, who asked that his last name not be used, particularly cautions against nuking fish leftovers in the microwave. “How do you contain the stench? If you close the kitchen door, the room will be foul for days.”
Put simply, if you bring the rest of last night’s fish curry, you risk losing the position to the guy who’s using pizza as a networking tool. As McElrae says, “There is nothing like ordering a pizza to unite everyone in the office.”
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
Published August 7, 2007
My lunches from home, mostly home-cooked and sometimes purposely for lunch and not leftovers, are so much better than the stuff from the company lunchroom that people are often envious. I microwave it, take it to my office, and read the paper while I eat at my work table (I do have a very large private office).Nobody would ever begrudge anyone in this organization preferring not to go out and spend $10 on a Cosi sandwich or a burrito, especially with our sweltering summers and rainy, cold winters.
I couldn't agree more with jkosnett. Maybe it's because I work with a lot of women, but around lunchtime the kitchen area fills with scents of tasty leftovers from everyone's meal the night before. People are often saying 'ooh, what are you having? 'did you make that?'
This article reinforces to me the theory that Americans are way, way too obsessed with work.
"People will know that you chose to spoon chicken fricassee into a container rather than get to the office five minutes earlier."
Gimme a break! People like to work with well-rounded, thoughtful individuals. Often I feel nowadays landing a position has as much to do with people seeing you're a complete person and not just an office slave.
This is why we are swimming in credit card debt . . .
"Those who pack a lunch are ... typically crunched for cash."
It's sad that the desire to save/not waste money should automatically signal money issues to some. These days, lunch at a nicer-than-McDonald's-fast-food place will run $7-10. That's an extra $35-50 a week that could be better spent on your kid's college funds or, as heatherkay pointed out, paying off your credit card debt. Just because you have the means to buy lunch every day doesn't mean that you need to always exercise them.
Besides, doesn't getting sushi delivered to the office everyday just show the boss that you've got more than enough money to spend, so you could live without a raise this year?
I wouldn't work in a place that looked down its nose at me for bringing lunch. No way.
I agree with everyone else; this article is probably a new low for Table Manners, in my mind, which surprised me: given some of the past articles, I wasn't sure that this column could sink any lower.
I personally would look down on someone who was so cavalier with money that they bought lunch every day. What a wasteful, unnecessary expense, and my initial thought would be that such a person lacks any competence in the kitchen and doesn't even bother trying. Furthermore, given - at least, IMO - the prevalence of bringing in food, such behaviour would seem to carry a gentle reek of snobby elitism in my books.
roasted138 has a good point. I'm now a PhD student who works from home, but back when I worked in a corporate environment, I would typically dine out with my coworkers once a week and bring my lunch in on the other four days. It was an excellent conversation starter with other foodies who also loved cooking elaborate dinners and enjoying their leftovers the next day (and with non-foodies who were envious of all the smells and wanted to learn more); this provided us with an instantaneous non-work connection that was not too personal for strangers, and was the perfect platform on which to begin developing friendships with my office mates.
Personally, I think Helena should start focusing on real "table manners" issues instead of fringe nonsense and manners only affordable to the well-off, as is the case here. As it stands, I currently continue to read this article for its entertainment value rather than for any useful information. I can think of some topics that it would be great to see covered: for example, a basic manner primer for restaurants of different cultures like Japanese, which have their own quite unique sets of manners and where what's polite and rude in North American culture might be completely inapplicable. We have the more home-style, traditional (think: little focus on sushi) Japanese owned and operated restaurants here in Toronto that are generally mostly filled with Japanese clientele. I feel that I never fully know how to display proper manners in such a setting.
With the prevalence of these cuisines in other parts of the world, I imagine that it would be invaluable to have questions answered like:
1. Is there such a thing as too much wasabi to be polite?
2. What are some of the rules of chopstick usage, especially when dishes are to be shared between diners?
3. Rice bowl etiquette 101.
4. A comparative cross-cultural study of the proper way to enjoy noodles.
5. Do servers from different cultures expect treatment different than that at standard North American restaurants?
Just some ideas.
With todays over priced unhealthy cafeteria food, why not bring a healthy lunch, vege's,salad or chicken breast sandwich ect.
I think it makes you look conscientious
and wanting to take care of your body as far as weight and healthy eating. It is something to be admired.
I do agree about the smell, but that's unavoidable in most offices I know. In general, people who think the way those people do in Helena's response is one of the reasons why so many of us are disillusioned with Corporate American and all its nonsense and bullcrap. I left to start my own business and never looked back. Whenever I read inane things like this, I thank my lucky stars that I made the right decision.
How about getting some real experts to weigh in on this topic, instead of one-named persons who don't really convey authority and don't want their names mentioned ("Sam, a legislative aide in Washington, DC")???
This is a joke, right? People will think you're not focused on your work if you take five minutes of your pre-work time to pack your lunch? I mean, I could get to work even earlier if I skipped showering.
Also, I'm from Boston. I think eating leftovers AND wearing old cardigans project a certain power here!
I've always brought my lunch-usually a home made salad. In my past two jobs, my co-workers have drooled over them. I had co-workers who went to Tommy's or IN n Out every day, or El Pollo Loco, or the local taco truck, or worse. One of my co-workers spent a wad on liposuction, and continued to eat burgers and burritos off the taco truck. What a twit! What a waste!
Not only did I save money, I watched their backsides grow.
I have to agree with the other commenters. If my coworkers had enough time not only to notice, but to draw conclusions about, something as trivial as my lunchtime habits, that would indicate to me that they're not focusing on work.
Bringing your lunch can say positive things like "I'm resourceful," "I'm economical" (which isn't a bad thing, especially if you're in a position to create budgets for company projects), "I think ahead," and "I'm health-conscious." The idea that preparing your lunch cost you time away from the office is silly - more likely, you got up five minutes earlier than your colleagues to do so.
The fellow who claims his vegetarian colleague was bringing her lunch in order to seem "different" is ridiculous. She was bringing her lunch to eat healthful food of her choice, undoubtedly without thinking that her coworkers would care; he is self-centered enough to assume that she would only do so to make an impression upon him. Idiotic.
There are just so many ridiculous absurdities in this article that I feel the need to comment again.
Take this gem, for example:
>>> People will know that you chose to spoon chicken fricassee into a container rather than get to the office five minutes earlier. Says McElrae: “I don’t think about that kind of thing when I get up in the morning; I’m thinking about whether I’ll get to Starbucks and what work I have to do that day.”
What a nonsense statement. Our friend McElrae can find the time to stop at a Starbucks and wait in line, but she can't find the time to grab a tupperware container of last night's chicken? A little conscientious planning the night before when packing up leftovers voids any work save opening and closing the fridge the next day. The Starbucks stop would definitely take much, much longer, and without it she could have gotten to work 15 minutes earlier. Hell, she could have foregone her personal grooming and likely arrived an hour earlier. Ridiculous.
>>> Another reason not to bring your own lunch is that it sets you apart. “It means you can never go to lunch with anyone,” Langford says. “It sends a signal: ‘Don’t invite me to go out with you.’”
I never had this situation happen to me before. Coworkers often invited me to lunch when I brought lunch in. I simply left it in the company fridge for the next day and went out with them: no problem.
I think she has fair points about projecting success and about being social at the workplace, but I doubt that if you're truly a go-getter that sort of thing is holding you back.
And the quote from Stan MacElrae about Starbucks is ridiculous. Stopping at Starbucks takes way more time than packing a lunch, so both MacElrae and the author can quit being so judgemental about drawing conclusions about one's dedication to the office from other people's lunches.
Warren Buffet brings his lunch.
Wow! Miss Table Manners certainly hit on the right recipe for stirring up the ire of a bunch of chowhounds! Too funny.
Here in the land of smelly cheese, I have one co-worker who deranges a second hypersensitive-to-odor co-worker with sandwiches, in our small office. You can imagine where my sympathies lie. Fortunately, all three of us are working in a dead-end job anyway. Vive le Reblochon!
This article is utter nonsense. I live near a big farmers' market and when I work in an office, always bring nutritious salads and other meals. Unless you are willing to spend a fortune on office food, the stuff you get at restaurants and takeaways has too much fat, salt, sugar and in the case of "low-fat" options, often dangerous chemical substitutes.
Good for Warren Buffet. Weathly people aren't necessarily profligate.
At my former workplace, a chococlate factory, a lot of the ladies who worked in production were from Southeast Asia. I liked taking my lunch break when they were in the break room/kitchen because they all brought interesting things to eat, and they were happy to share. I'd ask them what they'd brought, then they'd ask me what I was eating.
At my current job, I'm oftentimes the only one who brings her lunch, but, once again, everyone notices and asks me what I'm eating and how I made it. Maybe my insistance on bringing healthful, tasty, and fresh lunches to work is the reason I have a crummy retail job and not a cushy office gig, but if my confidence in eating what I like is the price, so be it.
It's good to see so many folks here of the same mind. Going out for lunch is fun, but it gets spendy and also tends to entail larger portions than folks would have if they brown bagged it.
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME. If your upward mobility in your office is affected by your purchase of crappy sandwiches from Cosi or bringing your own lunch, then the quality of your work must me so mediocre that it's down to your luncheon plans to differentiate you from others. Sad.
I have a job where lunching at certain social spots is a professional necessity- get to see, be seen, have casual conversations with potential contacts, etc.
That said, the kind of silliness and waste promoted in this article gets right under my skin. When I'm in the office, it's always a packed lunch for me... and when I am out, I'm usually thinking of the nice relaxing leftovers lunch I could be eating with my friends at the office.
When did marketers and advertisers start controlling EVERY aspect of our waking life. When did it become necessary to spin every little notion and act in ones day? If you want to be perceived as a go-getter - be a go-getter! Come in early, strive for success, ask what more you can do for the company! As the manager of 40+ people, I can tell you that I could care less what my staff eats for lunch, unless it cuts into their productivity. As a matter of fact, people who eat out are much more likely to come back from lunch late than those who eat in the office. By that logic, people who bring their lunches should be hailed as more successful and projecting a more winning attitude! By the way, I typically reheat leftovers and eat them in my office while I finish a memo or catch up on emails. (Which is what I should be doing now!)
Also, think about how such companies like Google and Microsoft are providing their employees with top-of-the-line amenities such as killer cafeterias with spa/gourment options so they *don't* have to leave the building! Somehow, I doubt that these people are being looked upon negatively....
In my work environment, there are relatively many foreigners (European, Asian) including myself :-) This leads to healthy and social meetings when we are having lunch ... in the lunchroom with the microwave. And "what did you bring" today is an equally good conversation starter and reflect lifestyles.
I had homemade Dal and Ratatouille today.
I live and work in DC and I bring my lunch everyday, either leftovers or a simple sandwhich or the like. I do have to say that there is a strange sense of ambiguity associated with bringing your lunch. People look and say, "man, that's smart, I should do that. It looks good, is better for you than anything available in the area and is probably a third the cost". But most people still go out to eat and buy the same crappy sandwhich / burrito / whatever. I can't figure it out.
I do have to agree with the other mysterious DC workers though that some people around here seem to get a sense of satisfaction thinking, "I make a lot of money and I'm really important so I can have sushi delivered or I can go out to eat all the time". Maybe the whole idea of how to project success differs by where you are and what you do. I don't agree with it, but if you are struggling to project success in other areas (like actually being productive and doing good work), I would say use lunch outings for networking opportunities and consider the money you spend an investment in future career prospects.
Sheesh, has our society become that superficial that you're judged on your lunch? Stop this movement right now, before people take it seriously. That's how this silliness gets started, and why we have a generation willing to work for pretty much nothing. People looked down on a vegetarian for eating what she wants to eat? Screw 'em! I'm in DC too, and those people who value appearance over merit are jerks. Besides, the stuff you can buy simply isn't worth half of the exorbitant price charged, or even worth going out in this summer heat for.
These comments seem to express a bit of a disconnect over what we'd LIKE corporate America to be, and what it actually is. Do some people judge others for stupid stuff like bringing your lunch to work? Clearly they do, as referenced by the sources. Should you care? Well, if you're the type of person that likes to play the game and get ahead by conforming to the status quo, then you should know they're judging you. If you don't give a hoot about climbing the corporate ladder, or would prefer to rely on the riskier Warren Buffet style maverick approach, then the question of whether to bring leftover chicken in a tupperware is a non-issue. Both the writer and I, her editor, both eat leftovers. I just finished eating some minestrone from dinner last night. I am pretty sure my future parking spot in the CNET executive garage just vaporized.
In my previous job in corporate America, bringing one's lunch was perfectly common. I came to think of it as something done by healthy, financially responsible, and organized people. I often bought a greasy lunch for a pretty penny and then had tons of plastic to throw away afterwards, and I never felt very powerful or in control at all by doing this.
If this were serious It gives just one more reason to lament why life in America sucks so profoundly in culinary matters compared with Italy. When people see my leftovers they wonder how I can afford to eat "gourmet" every night. (So maybe the image I'm sending _is_ one of success.) I do it because it is more healthful, delicious and budget friendly than ordering in lunch. If I have to give up "success" in order to live this way, then I'm okay with that. ;-)
Lessleyellen, I think people here are speaking from their experience and the only ones disconnected are you and the writer of this ridiculous article. Me, I work for a large investment concern. Our corporate culture is about making money for our clients and ourselves and I'm judged on what I do to further that mission, not what I eat for lunch. Get a grip.
Langford remembers: “I had a colleague once who was vegetarian and always brought her lunch. It was like a statement, ‘I’m different.’ It was tiresome.”
I find Langford's quote here really offensive. I'm vegetarian, and I pack a lunch so that I can enjoy a healthy meal and save a couple of bucks (because i'm already spending way too much on my morning Starbucks soy lattes!).
So to climb the corporate ladder I should eschew my core beliefs because god-forbid, they are deemed as "different"? Sorry to be so tiresome, but that's bullshit.
I too am veggie and I thought that was a little over the top...oh well, everyone has a right to their opinion.
I almost always bring my lunch. I agree that cafe food...not always the best and who knows what slop they will be serving you up and who prepared it and what actually is in it and how old???? Plus, there are PLENTY of articles that support the idea that MOST FOOD BORNE ILLNESS are caused from mass production of food and improper handling...buffet style (typical cafe food). I bring stuff for salad 75% of the time. I bring romaine, red peppers, green peppers, onions, mushrooms, jalapenos, spinach, beans...etc etc, a salad like this would seriously cost at least $10-15 anywhere except my own kitchen. Not to mention, I know how long its been out, that it was properly washed....the list goes on and on, plus saving a little pocket money too. Amazing...who would have thought. Plus I know exactly where I purchase veggies.
This article is full of crap!! I make myself lunch everyday and for almost every job I've had. Who wants to wait in line for 15 -20 minutes to get some nasty overcooked grease bomb or a old ass sandwich some cheapass is trying to pass off as fresh and then get charged $10. The money I save by bringing my lunch will buy me a much better meal when I want it. If your concerned friend is so worried about getting up that corporate ladder she should stop worrying about her lame-ass lunch and start thinking who she should break off in the bushes at the next company picnic!
The attitude espoused in the article is so...80's. I thought everyone was over that sycophantic behaviour. It's like something you'd see on Dynasty.
Do you really think that management cares about your food?
Boss: "So, what do you think of Jones for the manager position?"
Lackey: "Well sir...uh...ahhh, I've been wanting to bring this up for some time...he (sotto voce) brings his lunch!"
Boss: "What?"
Lackey: "Word is it's...leftovers."
Boss: "Leftovers? No!"
Lackey: "I'm afraid so. Apparently it's been going on for some time."
Boss: "He's just not made of the right stuff. That changes everything...Jones is out, Neumann is the new manager!"
Lackey: "Good move, sir!"
Boss: "Let's go buy some 10 dollar sandwiches for lunch!"
I've worked in Corporate America for 12 years and agree that this article is silly. Lessleyellen, you're the editor yet you wrote that you "both both" eat leftovers? ("Both the writer and I, her editor, both eat leftovers.") ;)
This article is ridiculous and so out of touch! I hope no one actually thinks that NOT bringing your lunch to work will make you "look" or "be" more successful--puhleeze! And the part about the vegetarian bringing her lunch in everyday being a "statement" of "i'm different"---DIFFERENT?! OHMIGAWD! God forbid you be DIFFERENT from everyone else!!! Sorry, but if you work somewhere where any of the issues raised in this article matter, (except the smells--that's totally valid) then your work SUCKS, and I feel for you.
I can't even believe I'm commenting on this preposterous story again, but Lessleyellen: yes, it's true that some people will judge you for stupid things like whether you eat leftovers for lunch. But the thing is, you can just never predict WHICH stupid thing people will judge you for. Some will look down on you for bringing your lunch, others for wasting time going out or for wasting money on $10 sandwiches or for caring too much about food or for not caring enough about it. Some will think ill of you for being a vegetarian, others for not being a vegetarian. You just have to either (a) rise above it or (b) toady to the particular irrational prejudices of the shallow-minded control freaks you happen to work with. If (b), writing articles generalizing from the irrational prejudices in your particular office subculture kind of misses the point.
I am embarrassed for CHOW, to post this type of insulting drivel. In the first few lines, I was convinced this was a satirical item. Sadly, no. Hey, wasn't CHOW's mission supposed to be one about celebrating food and home cooks? AND serving as an alternative voice to mainstream thinking about food? Man, what happened. You quote a couple of small-minded ladder-climbers (yes, I work corporate too) who clearly all share the same contempt for <gasp> preparing your own food. As if they're above eating anything that isn't prepared by someone making less money than them. Just sounds like lazy reporting to me. You're in San Francisco, for godssake -- I'm sure you can find a couple of opposing voices to this stale 1980's corporate mantra.
Helena's repsonse is a bunch of baloney. Ack! If climbing the career ladder means choking down crappy deli sandwiches (and not to mention creating lots of trash), I'd rather stay home and make pasta with pesto for lunch.
I realize that an online advice column is not the place where one goes for solid journalism, but this piece is... awful, really. There are no balancing quotes, most of the people quoted are not high enough up the corporate ladder to have any sort of overarching perspective (read: authority) on the subject--could you find no one in HR to talk with you?--and even the book author is suspect. Anyone can write a book--how long was she in the business world? How high up the ranks did she travel herself? She mentions that a sandwich is a good lunch because it can be eaten quickly--but aren't those one of the most easy lunches to make at home? I'm sensing some serious cherry-picking among her quotes.
The editor should have caught this. Instead, she is defending the story on these boards. Ms. Anderson, this is not appropriate in any publication. Your chance to express yourself is in the published article; the comments section is for readers to have their chance to do the same, just as if it were a print LTE column. And, just as with a print LTE column, the only reason to reply to a post is to correct factual errors in it. The fact that you "are pretty sure" that your lunch habits are affecting your professional success is not actually a fact. You published an article claiming one thing; readers are responding (in droves!) that their personal experience contradicts that experience. To pout and defend a poorly researched article based on vague feelings is not journalism; it is lazy, slipshod, and unprofessional.
I am sorry to be so harsh, but our profession has lost so much respect lately, and I really do believe that it is due in large part to insufficiently trained writers taking on positions for which they are not prepared. If we are ever to regain the public's trust, we have to begin operating at the same high standards--objectivity, avoidance of conflict of interest, accuracy, professionalism--that once made the American news media something, well, worth trusting. Ms. Anderson, your and my profession deserve better, even in the venue of an informal online food website.
And for the record, I was offered my current job precisely because of the gourmet, home-cooked meals I often brought to the office; I am currently the dining editor at a major metropolitan magazine.
...and I meant to mention that I enjoy regular promotions/raises at work AND I bring my own healthy, tasty, varied lunch every day (unless I have other plans with co-workers/friends). Unlike the droves of "strivers" I see in downtown SF each day, who grab a hastily-prepared salad or sandwich of questionable origin (in a PVC clamshell), many of us have made a conscious choice to keep our cutlery out of the landfill and eat from a reliable source: farmer's markets and our own kitchens. In my office, that's celebrated, not mocked. Lazy, lazy.
I often buy lunch at work, but I generally do it out of laziness. It's certainly not because I'm so consumed with thoughts of "whether I’ll get to Starbucks.” But apparently I'm on the fast track to success. A person who plans ahead enough to pack their lunch (especially a tasty and healthy one) seems to me like an organized, conscientious individual, but maybe that's not what management is looking for.
Oh, and: "I had a colleague once who was vegetarian and always brought her lunch. It was like a statement, ‘I’m different.’ It was tiresome.” Oy vey.
I am *so* relieved that everybody else here was as peeved by this lame article as I was...spending $50 a week on crappy take-out lunches signifies ambition and power?? Give me a break!
I've always brought my own lunches (yes, microwaved leftovers) and eaten them at my desk, proudly. Not only is does this save me time and money, this literal "taste of home" is a great de-stresser. Home-cooked food is therapeutic.
If I were a boss, I would question the financial judgment and time management skills of anyone who'd go out of their way to drive somewhere and back and spend $10 a day on junk food in hopes of looking like one of the big guys. LAME, LAME, LAME!
Abominable. Chow is now Cosmo with a focus on food. Kill us all.
isn't it really about how much you can relax and rejuvinate during your break? good food (food you like) will help with that. don't eat at your desk, don't eat in the car. unplug for 30 minutes, with co-workers or not, and you'll be back from lunch feeling better and more motivated.
seems to me that would help increase productivity more than woofing down some greasy take out, only to return to work feeling lathargic.
I do agree that image matters at work, but judging somebody's lunch is kinda like judging how clean their car is....it's small potatoes.
I think that Helena never shed the self consciousness that she felt by the kids in grade school. She wasn't one of the cool ones because she wore Levi's and not Gap jeans........so she ran out and bought Gap jeans to be cool. She obviously never grew up and outgrew her insecurities by that moronic response.
I take lunch 90% of the time. People "oooohhhh an aaahhh" when they look at my lunch. "Did you make that? I wish I could cook like you!!!".
I like to eat good food and I like to eat healthy. I work out and am in great shape for 42 years old. My counterparts that eat out all of the time look like crap.
I'm glad that I don't work at a place where they think that I'm "cash crunched" because I don't eat out. It must be horrible to work in an environment like that........next I'll be looked down upon because I don't have the $1400 Italian loafers that everybody else is wearing and won't be cool like them. Grow up you moron!
I think it's interesting that the editor claims both she and Helena bring lunch--but then Helena spouts this ridiculous BS about it being a bad career move. I've usually brought lunch to the office, and if friends were going out or there was a social obligation at lunchtime, I went and saved my packed lunch for another day.It never hurt or helped me. I know in some professions you are meant to be out and about at lunch wooing clients and networking (sales, for instance) but in my days in journalism and advertising, if there was no source or client meeting scheduled most of us brought our food.
Does Helena get paid to report these personal opinions?
How much experience is behind her response';s and she sure got alot of business and response from being so stupid!
Kinda like Paris Hilton and other no brainers!!!!!
OK, last thought (I'm starting to pity Helena a little)... I was thinking this morning, this is just like when you take the GRE, and there's those passages that present an argument of flawed logic and you have to write a response enumerating the errors. You know, like "unreliable/biased sources" or "fails to consider the opposing viewpoint" or "only seeks evidence that supports a personal view." Ah, flashbacks to the little white cubicles. OK, I'm done.
Some have mentioned the issue of how to deal with food smells in the office? This is in light of the fact that some of us (who enjoy food) don't mind the smell because it's about the taste that matters the most, and the fact that everyone has different tolerance to certain smells . What's good might be "putrid" to someone else. Not the typical smelly fish being nuked, mind you, but things that are more case by case, like garlic, peppers, onion and curry. Seemingly non-offensive foods if used in small quantities. I love bringing my own lunch and often use some form of these ingrdients (sparingly, in my humble opinion) in my food prep. In my old job, someone made a snide comment about "wow, that garlic sure smells and wrinkled her nose." But I didn't think it was smelly at all. I also observed one guy nuking his food while another colleague stood around the ofc kitchen to see what he was doing and when the food came out, made comments about how "spicy" it smells and how they wouldn't be able to eat it. How to deal with such nonsense? Chalk it up to them non-chow types missing out on the enjoyment of all foods and call it a day? Or bar ourselves from eating food that are deemed offensive by others because there are workplace perceptions and judgements in these comments?
“Your lunch is part of your nonverbal communication, just like your jewelry."- How superficial and outdated!
Looking at companies like Google, Microsoft, etc., I think corporate culture is really changing (and not just in the internet sector). Many companies no longer make their employees dress up for work (I, for example, can wear flip-flops to work just like my boss, and he has always complimented me on my work ethic, professionalism, etc.). And I truly think that companies are starting to understand and respect the choices that people make not to spend money on expensive lunches, clothing, or jewelry. People are becoming more aware of personal waste, other environmentalist concerns and how consumer decisions can impact the world (on the jewelry issue, just look at "blood diamonds").
This article does nothing but perpetuate a shallow culture of conspicuous consumption. We can do better.
I brought this article up with my friends on our nightly walk. One, whose company does legal programming for law firms around the nation, agreed with Helena's assertions. (His point was not that bringing lunch is bad per se, but not going out to lunch denies one the opportunity to socialize and network with management and coworkers.) My other friend, a government environmental economist, tended to agree with my position: that this is silly, but confessed he knows of people in his office to whom he thinks this article would apply. My corporate culture (animation/entertainment company) is more relaxed and if anyone is judged, it is usually people who consume too much soda and eat greasy, unhealthful food. (Not that I condone judging on superficial matters, but it can happen.)
Anyhow, I think BostonCookieMonster said it well: to generalize on macro career behaviors from one's particular corporate or regional culture is shoddy work. And as others have said, it's too much work to second guess what superficial factors one is likely to be judged on or not. Such politics happen, sure, but one's personal performance is the real thing one can control to best affect career success. All the rest will just drive you crazy.
"In my old job, someone made a snide comment about "wow, that garlic sure smells and wrinkled her nose." But I didn't think it was smelly at all. I also observed one guy nuking his food while another colleague stood around the ofc kitchen to see what he was doing and when the food came out, made comments about how "spicy" it smells and how they wouldn't be able to eat it. How to deal with such nonsense? Chalk it up to them non-chow types missing out on the enjoyment of all foods and call it a day? Or bar ourselves from eating food that are deemed offensive by others because there are workplace perceptions and judgements in these comments?"
These are the questions - questions about manners - that I would have expected to be addressed in this piece. Perhaps a discussion of being considerate of your co-workers, both in your commentary about their food and in what smells you subject them to. Instead it was just stupid, an attempt to claim universality of an attitude that applies to a very narrow segment and has nothing to do with etiquette. As a devotee of Miss Manners, I know my bar is set high for astute and hilarious etiquette advice, but this column... it's too inane to even be unintentionally funny.
"Abominable. Chow is now Cosmo with a focus on food. Kill us all. "
Amen, sister.
Come ON. I'm new here- don't alienate me so quickly, please.
Bringing your lunch to work means you want to a) bring a lunch you or someone who loves you cooked the night before, or b) that you are craving something that someone you love or loves you cooked the night before, or (c) that you are on a diet of some kind or watching your diet.
I can't wait to read all of the other posts, since I wrote this one from the heart!
For the most part, this is not going to kill a career. But, as many have pointed out, if it is OBVIOUS (AKA you make a point of letting everyone in the world know either by smell, proclamation or the like) that you will only eat your leftovers and nothing else, you do send a message that you are not available for socializing.
Our company offers many "lunch with [insert upper management individual here]" deals just for socializing. These are quite popular and with a limited space and need for everyone to get face time, consider the extra-smelly leftovers in a small conference room. You'll stand out, but not in a way that you may have intended (or you'll luck out and the boss will be into that and not notice that everyone else is completely offended).
Lastly, consider the subsidized cafeteria. Most companies offer something close to this - now I'm lucky in that ours comes with a Salad Bar, well-stocked Deli, Pizza oven, soup bar, grill and genuinely good entree selections that more than put your local $10 sandwich shop to shame. And I can eat a lunch everyday for $3 (drink & entree & side). When the company continually surveys associates on how to improve the selections (the vegetarian selection is now incredible whereas it was once relegated to the salad bar and boca burgers), bringing one's lunch can say, "the company can do nothing for me." In addition, the time spent around the salad bar or cruising from station to station does bring more opportunity to mingle with co-workers. I've managed to get more than a few items discussed over waiting in line at the deli bar that would have taken setting up meetings or a dozen rounds of phone tag and gotten things accomplished. If I were just dashing in for my free water, that would not happen.
As I said, bringing lunch will never deny you a promotion, that is silliness. However, being unwavering in your need to eat your own lunch and not knowing where the social spots in your office are can say, "I am not available for all that extra face time that could help me in the long run." Most people grumble and call this politicking, but being able to get along with others and forge relationships is a very promotable aspect of most careers.
This article is not about "being unwavering in your need to eat your lunch." Who is like that? Anyone who cares about his/her career recognizes the importance of going out to lunch occasionally for networking/work social reasons, or, in the event of the type of events described above, participating in intra-office social activities - all of these are vital for showing one's commitment to the workplace, as well as building rapport with colleagues and upper management.
The point of this article is that if you bring your lunch rather than ordering in expensive takeout, you're showing that you're somehow lower class than those who spend a pile of money on sushi everyday, or that you spent too much time before work thinking about food (those five minutes with the chicken fricassee), or, like in the case of the "tiresome" vegetarian, you're trying to show everyone that you're different. (The last point is so idiotic that I want to scream.)
When I worked in a corporate environment, about half my coworkers brought their lunch, some ordered in, and some went out. While I would happily go out to lunch once in awhile (sometimes for meetings with clients, sometimes just for fun with my colleagues), I found just as much socializing went on among those who brought leftovers as those who went out - we'd often take our lunches to the park and sit together, or eat together in the conference room, or at least we'd have a few minutes to chat in the kitchen area while people were preparing their meals.
Surely you'd have to be quite a mediocre employee to worry that your lunch choices would affect your advancement!
I'd hire or promote a lunchpacker over a Quiznoss lemming anyday.
I think we should differ to the ultimate authority on such matters: The Breakfast Club. Remember how they all brought different lunches and that was a symbol of their personalities. Of course it's the same in real life. Exactly the same (movies are always *just* like real life). So don't be Ally Sheetie (sp?). Be Claire. Be neat and avoid pixie sticks. You'll be just fine. Just fine.
I felt that someone who ALWAYS went out for lunch or bought their lunch was too lazy to prepare one. Someone who brings their own lunch knows how to be frugal, creative, and probably cares about what they are putting into their body.
Who IS this person who writes these articles? They are so out of synch with the opinions of the readership. I suggest that CHOW get rid of her ASAP and get someone who has some perspective in life. It seems that she is stuck in the self-consciousness of junior high, and that's just sad.
This is quite possibly the stupidest advice column I've ever read. Not Table Manners in general (well, I won't go there), but this particular one. I could pick it apart point by point, but it just doesn't deserve that much attention. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. Really, though, what a bunch of crapola advice.
Sorry to beat the already in the glue bottle horse, but really, this idea of being micro-competitive has already made the corporate workplace into an entity wherein the scum rises to the top. Bootlickers, apple polishers, megalomaniacs... It's a trick, and a detriment to our society.
Helena, this is Craig from craigslist, just checked this out, really good.
Sorry to see a coupla trolls, but there are people who overdo criticism; you can't make everyone happy. I figure one can always disagree with something, I have a bad habit of doing so, but it sure helps if the tone is civil.
thanks!
Craig
I am a late poster here.....but jeez this article is ridiculous! Take away the monetary "statement" made by eating out every day and think of health issues alone. Who can eat out every single day and not gain gobs of weight? I find when I watching my calories that it is nearly impossilbe to find quick lunch eats that are under 600-700 calories. I can easily pack a delicious lunch and snack for half that. The one thing that makes me happy is how many people violently disagree with the premise of this article. And Craig......why should people sugar coat it? Sometimes the truth hurts.
I just discovered Chow today, and after reading several articles, I found this one and all of its comments! Had to join the bandwagon.
I'm an American, living/working in London. When I brought my lunch to work, at first, people reacted like I'd done something revolutionary. Comments have quickly moved from "Why do you bring your lunch?" to "Ooh, what's that?" to "You are so organized!" Being the creative cook that I am, my coworkers are curious to what I bring, and often try out my recipes at home. The trend has been picked up. At first, people were going to the local grocery store to grab a sandwich (pre made in store - very common here) and chips instead of going to the local restaurant take-away.
Now, even the guys are bringing their packed lunch from home. One guy now uses his lunch hour to work out at the gym, then eat his packed lunch at his desk. This saves us all time, allows us to work straight through the day, then head to the pub for social time. (another common tradition here) We've all talked about how much money we save, and even share recipes!! Eating out for lunch in my area of London can easily cost 5-7 pounds, which is alot. (and if you convert back to US dollars, that's $10-$14 a day!)
this article is so lame!
first, making a lunch is 10X faster than going out to eat during the crowded. it takes 10 minutes to walk to wherever you buy the lunch, 10 minutes in line, then you have to find a seat and wait for everyone to get there. . . an hour later you're back at work. when i bring a lunch - it's just part of my morning - takes a couple of minutes and about 5 minutes to eat at the office which saves me a lot of time.
second, it's so much healthier. that's the main reason (compared with saving time) why i take a lunch. these places that serve sandwiches drenched in dressings, etc with sides - it's just awful. salads are just as bad b/c they put so much stuff on them. i like to go home and cook a nice dinner and not waste my entire week's calories on some bland oil filled slop that makes me tired and unproductive.
third, just b/c you bring a lunch does not mean you can't go out with others. if i go out - i just eat my sandwich the next day. big deal. it's called flexibility.
finally - as everyone has said, what's so *great* about spending $7-14 on lunch every day? that really makes you more successful and a better person? that's just a sick commentary on this country's waste. i'd rather spend the $30-50 a week on something i truly enjoy my money instead of trying to keep up with some silly perception that eating at baja fresh or panda express makes me "successful." i'm already successful - i don't need a receipt to tell me so.
For those climbing the corporate ladder, doesn't it make you appear more productive if you are eating at your desk than going off with a pack of people for lunch and inevitably having to make the occassional excuse for coming back late because of the servers, traffic, lines, etc. I'd rather have quality calories of my choosing than fast food, cafeteria food or chain food.
Career wise if your boss (or someone else who can impact your career) invites you to lunch, leave the leftovers in the fridge otherwise what's the difference.
More signicantly is how does extra weight impact your career. Fat execs are anomolus, not the rule.
I think if they changed the name of this column fewer people would have an excuse to fuss about the content.
I really have to jump on the bandwagon here and offer my two cents - this article is ridiculous! I worked in an office where bringing your own lunch was not only acceptable, it was sometimes mandatory. Our boss would organize monthly ethnic-themed 'pot-luck' luncheons that were a great chance to eat together, network, and show off your cooking skills. And on the normal days, the smells of my lunch in the microwave would always bring heads popping out of offices wondering what smelled so good and who made it.
I work in midtown Manhattan. For the most part the food available somewhat quickly (i.e. within 5 blocks of the office) is horrible, unhealthy, and repetitive junk. I'm not all that responsible with money and if I worked in, say, Chinatown I'd eat out every day.
As it is, I've taken to preparing lunches that probably end up costing as much as it would cost me to get a vapid burrito or sandwich at one of the places in my building. (The sandwich place insists on making a sandwich with condiments--like mayonaisse--and then putting the whole mess in a pizza oven... hot mayonaisse on a chicken sandwich?)
I find a little tupperware consisting of a bit of good cheese, a bit of good protein like prosciutto or grilled chicken, a hunk of baguette and whatever veggie I have lying around the kitchen or fridge (I'm pretty addicted to sauteed spinach finished with a drop of balsamic) makes me look forward to lunch and perks me up in the morning. Since I keep it pretty light in quantity, I'm not bogged down in the afternoon and the result is I find myself much more productive all day.
My managers sometimes stop by to see what I've got and sometimes share a nibble. If something's really good I'll bring in extra for the folks around me. If this is somehow frowned upon where you work, you work in a bad bad place.
Just my thoughts, it's not all about cash.
This article is the opposite of chow. What the heck is it doing here?
"Do not attempt to eat delicious food you prepared yourself! Go to Starbucks! Be one with the herd!"
Pretty downright clueless.
It's not April 1st, so this must be a real article.
There are so many ridiculous statements and assumptions made here, that have already been covered by the other members.
So let me just repeat: Savings. Nutrition. Taste. Greater amounts of all three if you bring your own lunch in.
what is a joke is that people insist on going out with colleagues, usually spending $20 a day on foods when they have cleaner, tastier food at home! that's the career killer. Even if it's $25 a week you're saving, think of it, that's $1,300 you are saving per year! it's pretentious when done to impress but necessary at times but not every day, that's a smart cookie to bring her own lunch, I'd promote her, she can save our company money!
What a load of rubbish!
I am late to this thread but, holy crust! I always thought people who lunch out all the time are either wasteful, impractical or too harried in their lives to bring leftovers. I am NOT impressed with the guy who walks in with takeout bags everyday.
Besides, save money on lunch means more money for other things.
Who'd want to work for a company that is shallow enough to evaluate your potential and worth based on your lunch routine??
I do agree with the comment about not bringing in food with strong odors, though. I have an office mate who brings in some of the God awful-est smelling food. We don't have a separate lunchroom, and if it is raining out, there's really not a lot of choice but to eat at our desks. I just get up and make myself scarce until she's finished. I have asked her a couple of times if she will please put her trash in the covered trash can in the copy room instead of the open one under her desk, though. I can't stay away from my desk all afternoon, after all.
Wait, isn't Chowhound supposed to be for people who care about food? Because I love to eat well, I prefer to take my delicious homemade lunches to the office. They're much better than the over-priced, under-flavored, questionably produced offerings at nearby take-out places. I wish Chowhound were more invested in changing the food zeitgeist: I encourage my assistant, for example, to take a long lunch every day. I want him to enjoy his time eating, socializing and relaxing. A healthy relationship to food---as any true foodie knows---translates into so many other areas of well-being, including the professional one.
A lot of posters here have been way too hard on the writer of this article. I have been working in the corporate world for approximately 10 years now, and I can vouch that bringing your own lunch to work versus going out CAN put you at a disadvantage in terms of climbing up the corporate ladder. I have worked in 3 different companies and most of the upper level management (if not all) go out for lunch. Sure, this does not apply to ALL companies or corporate cultures and I do not want to use the same brush to paint all upper level management as ones who go out for lunch. But the truth of the matter is out in the REAL WORLD (and sorry if people find it offensive), it is considered a "lower class" to bring your own lunch all the time to eat it. It is considered amateurish and of "low level". These are not my views, it's just the way it is. I myself bring lunch maybe 2 out of 5 days of the work week and that's just what I do, but I do see the importance of going out with coworkers and directors for lunch outside of the office.
That is where they see your potential as "one of them" - and yes, you might develop a gut as a result of all the salt-laden, fatty restaurant food, but it does help with connections and general integration into upper level management culture.
It is like what they say with work-attire: Dress for the job that is one level higher than yours.
It gives you credibility in the corporate world - however unfair or insensitive you might think it is.
I thought the article was pretentious and idiotic.
I work at a large hotel and they offer employees a selection of excellent meals at a reduced price. I almost always bag my lunch because I just can NOT see spending $5.00-$7.00 on a meal every day when I can bring one from home that costs even a fraction of that. Downside is I can't each lunch with my friends (no "outside" food allowed in the restaurant) but I usually lunch with the person with whom I share an office. Never the less, lunch is still a big deal in our department as, close to noon, we all ask each other, "What are YOU having? Did you bring lunch? What's the restaurant's special? What are you ordering?"
If I am bringing something more aromatic (like salmon) I will reheat it in one of the catering kitchens so I don't infuse the office with the scent of fish for two days. Who wants to smell fish in the office? Even those of us who like it?
The workplace kitchen can be a sensitive area....
I work somewhere that discourages long lunch hours (well, for most of us...that's another issue !) and so, alot of people bring their lunch or order in. Occasionally we go out.
For some reason, i seem to work with an awful lot of people who often make their lunches out of sardines or herring in cans, ick. Worse yet, they don't wash the cans.
However i don't fault people for their lunch choices. I also work with a primarily "meat and potatoes" crowd who seem to infrequently go out of their comfort zone to try new dishes or cuisines. I am primarily a vegetarian and yes i admit sometimes i eat weird things, but I also eat alot of different cuisines that i sometimes bring in for my lunches. Instead of "oooohss" i seem to get a lot of "what the hell is THAT" each time i open my lunch or people screwing up their faces while i eat something like sushi. I take it most days as good natured ribbing, but It can get kinda tiresome at times too, who wants to explain their lunch every day.
Dish issues can also rear their ugly heads in workplace kitchens, as well as fridge space issues. We have a fridge nazi at work who i swear gets a computer alert the second something goes past it's sell by date, and is always tossing stuff. I understand science projects and smelly things in the fridge, but i don't like being made to feel like a circus freak because i ate an un-moldy piece of bread the day past it's sell by, particularly if it's been up in the freezer. Then there are those who never take their stuff out of the fridge or use it, and seem to think a communal kitchen is the storage area for things they can't fit in their own fridges.
We've also had more than our share of fridge theives who eat other people's lunches, un-shared condiments, milk etc etc without contributing in any way.
Packing your lunch is a poor career move? Please.
My husband brings his lunch almost every day. Two lunches, actually, as he tends to work late, and gets hungry in late afternoon. He gets to eat good homemade food that's cooked from scratch, and knows exactly what is going into his body. His colleagues, on the very odd occasion that that notice his food, are intrigued by the wide variety of world cuisines that come out of our kitchen.
On the days when meetings run long and lunch is ordered in, or a bunch of the guys decide to go out for noodles, he just leaves his lunch(es) in the fridge for the next day. He's flexible that way.
And his bosses have no problem with his frugal habit: he's been promoted twice in as many years.
I love that the debate is still going, 6 months later.
I have to add my voice to those who disagree that bringing lunch signals your career is tanking. At my employer, leaving your desk in general is frowned upon: we spend 90% of our day on the phone (no, we're not a call center) so leaving even for 15 minutes to grab something downstairs is frowned upon: your co-workers will have to pick up your slack and juggle multiple calls, not to mention monitor your other responsibilities.
While this may not be the healthiest work/life balance situation, bringing lunch from home definitely signals dedication to your job and concern for your coworkers. We bond "in the trenches": doing our jobs and dealing with crazy clients, NOT over fancy restaurant lunches where nothing gets accomplished.
mama mia! Truly an idiot helena is!
What about those who have special dietary needs such that it's near IMPOSSIBLE for them to eat out? My husband knows someone who has celiac disease. For him he needs to be a 100% sure that there's no gluten in his food or else he will get sick. Did this hurt his career? Not at all.
This article is absolutely hilarious! I couldn't help but sit here and read every single post even though I am so tired.
I bring my lunch to work every day and if I happen to forget it at home it makes my work day more stressful because then I have to waste time getting in my car, driving in traffic, waiting in line, and then driving back to the office just for a meal I could have consumed at my desk in 10 minutes and spent the rest of my lunch break doing more productive things. I could afford to buy lunch everyday but choose not to because I enjoy cooking tasty foods and don't like the hassle of having to fetch my lunch.
It sounds like some adults still haven't gotten over the peer pressure from the high school cafeteria where "you were uncool if you didn't buy the school lunch."
Isn't being "different" what makes people notice you at work?
I hate to agree with this, but I don't think people are really being fair to Helena. I'd love to know what people mean when they say they work in a "corporate" culture, because what they are seeing is very different than what I am seeing. I work at a hedge fund on Fifth Avenue, in Manhattan (granted, not a typical work environment). Even at the entry levels, people just do not bring their lunch. I just left college-- I'd love the extra $10 or so a day in my pocket-- but the payoff of hanging around looking through local lunch menus, debating the merits of various salad places and waiting with your coworkers in line are probably worth more in the end. The comparison to wearing an old cardigan is perfect; nothing wrong with it (probably shows a lot of good values, if you think about it), but your bosses and coworkers would never think of doing it, and expect to work with someone who would never think of doing it, either.
It's snobbish, and stupid, and idiotic, and probably says lots of terrible things about America, but don't shoot Helena for delivering the message. Even if it ain't true where you work, it's true for some, and getting upset at the columnist doesn't change it.
Beside being so inane and superficial, I don't have the words, this article is a quite a throw-back. It reminds me of "power dressing", Sun Tsu Art of War to psycho-babble type "get ahead" classes/seminars, and every other media/marketing-created "business trend you MUST adhere to or risk being left woefully behind" of past eras. Sure, there will always be gullible creatures who can be convinced that virtually anything is the key to sucess or failure. Funny how these generally tend to involve buying/consuming/pseudo-learning $$ you wouldn't have otherwise spent. Hmmm
Also, the piece misses the obvious point that, in some cases, bringing lunch can open new opportunities to socialize and interract. For example, during the cold, rainy season I would often bring enough of last night's soup or stew for everyone so they would have a yummy, warm lunch without having to go out in a storm. My friend learned to make chicken paprikas and now brings in extra leftovers to the delight of the owners of her company, who are all Hungarian but can't cook. My husband used to attract a lot of attention with the latest food experiments of mine or his at his old office, with conversations starting with the food and winding in interesting and unexpected directions.
And, of course, since there's no travel time to eating in, lunch conversations tend to be longer and uninterrupted, too. Try that with to-and-fro driving, seating, menus, ordering, and trying to stuff it all in before lunch time is up!