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Miriam Wolf
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Table Manners
Turning the Tables
Can a restaurant kick you out when it’s busy?
Dear Helena,
The other night I went to my favorite restaurant, and as usual, it was packed. I was eating with friends I hadn’t seen in a while, and we took our time over dinner. After we paid the check, we continued chatting. Then the hostess came up to us and said, “I hate to kick you out, but we really need this table.” The experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I waited weeks for my reservation. I didn’t see why I should scramble to get out of there. Is it OK for the restaurant to tell you to move on, and if so, what’s the best way for them to do it? —I Need Time to Digest
Dear Time to Digest,
In industry lingo, people who stay for a long time are called campers, and restaurants don’t like them. But neither do restaurants like asking campers to decamp.
Anne Stoll, co-owner of Delfina, a top San Francisco restaurant, says she would only ask campers to move if the place is crammed, other people are waiting for their reservations, and more than 30 minutes has elapsed since the campers paid their check. “Then I would offer them a drink in the bar, if there’s a place for them.” Restaurant workers I talked to agreed that’s the only classy way to ask people to move on. It makes business sense: The profits from turning the table outweigh the loss on the free drinks.
As long as you’re still consuming food and drink, you can linger as long as you want. You’re there for the overall experience, not just what you put in your mouth, and dining at a comfortable pace is part of what makes a good one. A chef who wished to remain anonymous told me, “Think of it this way: Especially in busy cities, a restaurant table is valuable real estate. You rent it by buying food and drink. As long as you’re still eating and drinking, you’re paying your rent.” But there is a limit. Like, it’s not OK to order endless coffee refills just to have a place to hang out.
You may not care what happens to the restaurant’s reservation system or potential profits, but know that if you dawdle, you’re causing a special kind of torment for the hungry people in line. David Maister, a business consultant and former Harvard Business School professor, explains: “Waiting for an uncertain period is subjectively worse than waiting for a fixed period.” That is, if you’re eating dessert, people think you’ll leave when you’re done. But if you’ve paid the check and you’re still hanging out, there’s no telling when you’ll go. For the person in line, it’s easier to wait 20 minutes while you eat dessert than wait even a short time after you’ve paid the check. In the latter case, the passing minutes seem interminable.
Ryan Belanger, bartender at Duce bar and restaurant in Fort Worth, Texas, says: “If I’m at a restaurant, I go through the meal in a timely fashion, I enjoy my dessert or drink or last glass of wine. Then if I see people waiting for tables, I’m out of there. If I want to hang out, I’d go to the bar or lounge.”
So by all means, once you’ve paid the check, stand up and leave already. If you don’t, you’re not camping. You’re squatting.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
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The best way I ever saw this handled: On a busy night, the proprietor of the restaurant approached a table occupied by some regular customers who were camping and said, "You know you're part of the family when I can ask you to have a drink on me at the bar so that I can have your table for some other customers who are waiting." The proprietor was honest and direct about her needs, but was also polite and gracious toward her regulars. The approach worked well, and her customers probably felt rewarded for the recognition as regulars, rather than put-out at being asked to surrender the table that had become their campground.
We had reservations at a restaurant, and we had to wait for half an hour after we got there on time. We ordered appetizers, entrees, wine, dessert, and coffee. We didn't dawdle, but the minute the last bite of dessert went into a mouth, the hostess hustled over with the check and said coldly, "We need this table for a reservation. Please move along." We paid, but one member of our party was still in the restroom, and we asked if we could wait for her at the table, and the hostess just said huffily, "We really need this table. It's for a reservation."
We used to go there regularly, and now I'll never go back. I understand they were in a tight situation, but we had paid a lot of money to have a nice evening, and they could have handled it so much better.
Some restaurants make it clear when you reserve that they have two to three seatings per night. If your reservation is for the early seating and you arrive late, you should not be surprised if you are asked to leave when it is time to turn over your table. A more common problem is that the restaurant's expectations are not clear to the patron, so the patron understandably feels miffed if they are pressured to relinquish their lease on the table. If you are not a regular, you may wonder if a regular would have been asked to turn over the table.
Sitting around after you've paid your check is inconsiderate if people are waiting. That's a different issue from aggressive table-turning. In the case the OP describes, there was no right way for the restaurant to handle it. Buying you a drink or coffee would have been nice, but they'd have to have a place for you to sit-- not always the case.
I had an almost identical experience to the one described above. I was at my favorite local spot during the week and it was packed. I've become quite friendly with the manager and when he said, "hey let me buy you a drink at the bar, we need this table", we gladly got up. I think honesty is greatly appreciated, and provided that you are really done with your meal (NOT rushed), asking to turn the table is fine. I want to help keep the place busy and prospering (and I rarely turn down a free cocktail)
I would not have a problem giving up the table if offered a drink, provided that I had been seated for the reservation in a timely manner. If I had to wait, I would be perturbed.
However, it's much better than treatment than I have received of late, where the waitstaff brings the check before offering dessert or coffee. My mother is a very slow eater, so we like to wait until she's finished to order or look at a dessert tray/cart/menu. Wish someone would instruct staff not to bring the check until requested or obviously finished the dining experience.
it's also happening in europe, where the practice has generally been that you have the table until you are ready to leave. it is not as widespread as in the u.s. yet, at least in my experience in hungary, bosnia, and turkey. but, even in our favorite restaurant in budapest, a very upscale place where we were regulars and known by management and staff, last summer we were asked (none too courteously) to relinquish our table in favor of another, less desirable one for dessert so they could seat another group. we went elsewhere instead for pastries, and never returned to the restaurant. richard
My parents had dinner at Gordon Ramsey's place in London, and were bumped off their table so gracefully they didn't even realize it until afterwards
As they were finishing their dessert, the manager asked them if they'd like a tour of the kitchen. Of course, they said yes. They got up and followed him into the kitchen, where he gave them a 5-minute tour. (No, Gordon wasn't yelling or throwing anything.)
When they came back, their table had been cleared, and they were led back to another table in the bar area, where their coffee was waiting for them!
As a server, this is the most frustrating part of the job. Where I work, we "own" our tables. You have a set section of 3 per night. If I get 3 parties that sit for the duration of the shift, oh well... that's my only 3 tables for the night. The only way to make money is to turn the tables as efficiently as possible. Of course, we are not allowed to rush people... we wait until we have asked if they'd like dessert before dropping the check... and after dessert is served, then we can drop the check. The absolute worst is the people that linger and not order anything for hours after the meal. Doesn't matter if it's Friday night and they can see people standing waiting for a table, they stay as long as they want. And rarely do they tip generously enough to help make up for the lost revenue.
I've never seen anyone be asked to leave, we are taught to just manicure off everything from the table, so they get the hint. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. In truth, though, I don't see much of a tactful way to kick people out. It isn't Starbucks where you can just sit forever and not cost the place money, but people are there to enjoy themselves and their company.
I work at a much lower scale restaraunt, and I would NEVER ask someone to leave. That would be there last impression of the place. And they would more than likley never come back.
Even though campers are a pains, they can quickly become regualrs.
I find it incomprehensible that in this day and age that sophisticated diners wouldn't know for a fact that the table they're sitting at is reserved for someone else after them just as it was reserved for them. These 'next' diners expect to be seated at the time of their reservation just as the previous party expected to be seated at the time they reserved for. After all, a restaurant is not your dining room at home; it is a public establishment where everyone is equally paying the going tariff and equally expecting to have a nice dining experience (not evening experience). How then can they be so naive as to inquire whether or not the restaurant has the 'right', if you will, to ask them to move along?
Restaurants are businesses, are they not? And a notoriously risky one at that. On busy nights management must take advantage of the situation to make money.
If the party is ordering food and wine, then let them stay. But if not, I think the establishment has every right to ask a party of lingerers to move to the bar or to leave. Especially if the table has been reserved for a certain time. Sorry, I have no sympathy for the malingerers.
Just ask them: What if this restaurant was your sole mean of support? Would you be patient in the same situation? I think not.
no more consumption=no more seats/table (where people are waiting to get in)
not only are you being inconsiderate to your server and the rest of the staff, you are being inconsiderate to the guests whom are waiting and the owners of the establishment you are patronizing!
and if you do linger beyond your consumption - your meter is still running, at a minimum you should throw your server a bone.
I was with a small group @ an upscale restaurant for a festive dinner.
Needless to say the place was packed. We were finished our main courses & were lingering over coffee & desserts. Another larger group came in that did not have reservations--it was going to be a lengthy wait for them. Restaurant management approached us,asking if we would be willing to relocate to the bar so that this group could be seated. Drinks were on the house!
I hate feeling rushed at any restaurant. Although asking a table to move on after 15 minutes or so of paying the check. It's a business. What I absolutely can't stand is servers clearing the table or at least other people's plate while I am still eating (I am a slow eater). It makes me feel rushed and uncomfortable.
I like to enjoy myself at a restaurant, but I also understand that business is business. I have this question...Is there any rule of thumb as to how often a night a restaurant expects to "turn" a table? Obviously, there is some amount of difference from a low end chain to an exclusive Manhattan restaurant, but does anyone know anything about this?
Shayna, there are actually two acceptable answers to your question. First, restaurateurs like to turn over their tables as many times as possible in any one night (that's apparent :) and, second, 3 times at the very least.
This is a very touchy subject. I am a slow diner, as I enjoy the conversation of my party, from my wife's, if we are dining as a couple, to the others at my table. We often open restaurants and also close them down, both in the US and in Europe. However, I can certainly see the problem, from a restauranteur's prospective.
If my post-dining conversation is about to carry over, I just move to the bar, or to one nearby. As we often do cheese courses, and then Port, or similar, we are seldom finished within the "normal" time. That said, I do not linger, once we ARE done.
In all of my years, and there are too many to enumerate, I've only been asked to leave once. It turned out to be a partorn, representing himself as the management. Unfortunately, my tip reflected my anger, and the poor servers suffered for allowing a patron to come into the dining room and run off diners. As it turned out, our table could not accommodate this person's party, so they were still waiting. Some of my party did retire to the bar, and observed all of this, though I had long since left in a rather foul mood.
As we always have wine service, I usually instruct our servers that we will not be quick diners, so they can pace themselves appropriately, and inform the front of the house, that we will not likely vacate, when most diners would.
So far, this has never been a problem, even when we've spent four hours at a 3-star spot. With the one exception, above, we've also never been asked to vacate a table - that is because we do not "finish," until we are ready to leave, and then do so quickly.
Hunt
Agree generally that it's 'polite' to be aware of people waiting.
BUT - if ordering a tasting menu (say) - then surely it's the restaurant's problem/challenge if they are slow serving you.
Concerning Piglet's comment July 26 (can no longer reply on the thread) a similar thing happened to us at Gordon Ramsey EXCEPT they offered us a kitchen tour before the dessert - we then had to eat dessert from a coffeee table! We also discovered that the 'regular' chef (not Gordon Ramsey) was also "not in the house"; (which gives the lie to his well-circulated response to Q: "Who cooks when you're not at the restaurant? A: The same person who cooks when I am there!".
My overall rating was around 1* - bad timing, bad service, competent food (and not a single sheeps cheese nor any English cheese on the cheese trolley).
I've recently had to wait for over 30 minutes while campers were oblivious to the people waiting in line just a few feet away. The bar was full - no place to move them to.
Nothing you or the management can do.Just accept the fact that the world is full of inconsiderate rectal orifices and move on.
When my friends and I want to enjoy post dinner conversation, we take it to a coffeehouse/bar/lounge.
I hate having people who are waiting for a table train their laser beam vision on us.
Unless you reserved two time slots, be considerate of others who have also waited/are waiting to enjoy a meal.