stories : Table Manners
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Adults OnlyHow to politely tell guests not to bring their kids |
Dear Helena,
If you invite people with kids to dinner, is it OK to tell them to leave their kids at home? If so, what is the politest way to do that? And if they do bring their kids, do you have to make a special meal? —Non-Breeder
Dear Non-Breeder,
Your guests should assume that the only people invited are the ones mentioned in the invitation. Unfortunately, parents often forget this, imagining you will be charmed to entertain their offspring. Jason Roberts, a writer in Sausalito, California, and a father of two, says: “It used to be that some events were clearly adults-only, like if they started after seven. Nowadays people think they can take their kids everywhere.”
Robert Wilder, author of Daddy Needs a Drink, advises clearly spelling out who is and isn’t invited. “We’ve had situations where we weren’t explicit and some people brought their kids and some people didn’t, and the ones who didn’t were really upset. Then it feels like you’re favoring one set of children over another.”
But telling people their cherubs aren’t invited is tricky: Parents are sensitive. Karen Deerwester, owner of Family Time Coaching & Consulting, says you should act as if you’re concerned for the kids, saying, for example, “We won’t have activities that are child-centered and we wouldn’t want them to be bored.” Wilder says he likes to provide a list of baby-sitters. And Roberts recommends using humor. He cites an email invitation he received: “Alas, no kids … our friend Ryan has a potty mouth.”
If you’ve decided that children are welcome, you don’t have to make a special meal for them. At someone else’s house, children may be more adventurous eaters than at home, and discover they actually like tofu, or vegetables. And if you always dish up mac ’n’ cheese, you’re not preparing the kids for adult life, when hosts do sometimes serve us food that’s not to our tastes. But Wilder cautions that it’s essential to ask about kids’ allergies. “The allergy stuff is crazy nowadays. We know a kid with 12 different allergies. I call him Allergy Boy.” You might find your friends’ kids annoying, but that doesn’t mean you want them to end up in the hospital.
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Why are you inviting people you don't know well enough to clarify the invitation?
Kids are ok at cookouts but not at dinner parties.
If the kids are old enough to entertain themselves you might invite them with the understanding that they'll have been fed before they come and will be expected to stay in another room and watch or movie or whatever. There is a certain age where this is a real treat for kids.
Or just be specific in your invite... "I wanted to know if you and your wife would join us for dinner with some other couples"
sad to say this does not always work. some people include their kids in 'all' their dinners out. inspite of being specific and telling them 'no kids' they will bring their children. its getting to the point that there are certain people we usually dont want to invite because of their kids.
My mom's friend has four kids and never specifies which are or aren't coming, and whether or not they'll have eaten.
So sometimes they show up at our house with their own pizza or frozen lasagna (which we then have to bake up for them), other times they need to be fed. Luckily she's not a close enough friend to be invited to sit down dinners, only to large parties with a buffet set up.
Once she showed up with two of her kids and two strangers (her kids' friends).
It's not my house, so I don't say anything, but I don't know why my mom hasn't sat her down and told her it's completely rude.
I have a two year old and find it unfathomable that people would assume kids are invited. Unless it's a family party or unless it's obviously a kid-inclusive thing (a cookout or super casual "come for dinner tonight" invite) I either ask nicely if my daughter is invited ("Just so I am clear, is this a grownup thing or a kid-welcome thing?") or assume she's not. If it's a single or childfree friend, I ALWAYS ask even if it's "come for pizza." Anyone who would be well and truly offended that you're not including the kids is probably way too big a pain in the neck to want to be friends with anyway. We're patheticaly thrilled when people want to hang with us as just grownups. Just don't then be offended if someone declines because they couldn't get a sitter--we have regretfully turned down some invites because of that.
As an adult with two kids I personally have no feelings at all against telling me not to bring my kids. I mean can you imagine someone showing up with their dog or cat? Kind of the same thing. I would probably ask at the outset anyway about any invite and would not be offended in the least if someone said No Kids. Parents often like to have things to do without their kids. Really, it's no big deal and as the post above me says, anyone who did have a problem would be a pain in the neck anyway.
I'm glad to see that everyone on this thread, including the parents, is showing some common sense about this. And, yes, the "parents" who can't stand to spend 10 minutes apart from their children and therefore feel the need to drag them everywhere are indeed not people you really want in your life, unless you're like that yourself.
1. Specifying "adults only" on invitations makes it very clear, in a nice way, that children aren't invited.
2. Parents sometimes have to make a choice. I have two lovely urchins and chose not to attend an adults only wedding. It's the right of the host to decide who to invite.
3. Maybe I tend to hang out only with people with other children, but all events are family events. The children run and play with each other, the adults congregate and everybody has a great time. The beer budget for kid birthdays exceeds the cost of juice and balloons, for sure!
If an invitation for dinner does not specifically mention my child then I generally assume she is not invited. If the person inviting me does not have children, I plan for a babysitter.
I had a dinner party where I specified no children and a friend got peeved because her babysitter fell through at the last minute and she wanted to bring her children and I had to tell her that they weren't welcome. I understood how she felt, but as I had made plans for my own child to spend the night elsewhere, I did not want to then have to accommodate someone else's small children (ages two and four - it's not like they were 7 or 8 and could go in the back and watch TV unsupervised). There are times in your life where the existence of your children will force you to miss things. It's part of being an adult. Just like having to miss going out after work because you have a big meeting the next day.
When my partner and I have parties and are inviting both straight and gay couples we always include a line to the effect: "Come out and enjoy a night with the grown ups, Parties, like cocktails, are best when they are well mixed, and we all know that coctails are not for children"
Ok. Heather's back. I'm getting the impression that maybe there's a lot of parties that happen without children. Maybe it's an urban phenomenon? I firmly believe that intergenerational events promote family and community unity. My circle of friends has thrown only two adults-only events in the past seven years. People might go out to dinner at a restaurant without children but it's rare to host a kid-less dinner party. Then again, rural NorCal is more about potlucks and salmon BBQs than formal dinner parties.
Sadly, there are far too many parents that fall into the "Cult of the Precious Children," where their offspring are almost deified. There is nothing wrong, sinful, awful, or discourteous about having an adults-only party. It is not different than ladies night out or guys night out. Sometimes, you just want a certain camaraderie and that may include not being around children.
I wish I knew what it was that triggers parents into believing that every event they are invited to is a "family event."
Count me as another mommy who doesn't assume that invitations include my children, in fact, unless I know other children will be there for sure and are wanted, I assume all invitations are grownups only. Besides, I like having a little grownup time away from the kiddies once in awhile. What well adjusted parent doesn't?
i do believe there are two sets of parents the ones who do and the ones who dont. in a perfect world i would only know the latter but unfortunately my cream carpet in the formal dining room bears witness to tandoori chicken marks which one of the little uninvited angels graced us with. this is after telling people we arent inviting kids.
Hey Heather, I agree about your point about family friendly events promoting unity, but I tend to socialize kids-and-all with other friends with kids and "get a babysitter" with friends who are childfree except in defined circumstances. As an example, I have friends who are way cool and great hosts and don't have kids.They are very kid-friendly and our daughter really likes them. Brunch at their house after church (we attend the same church as the female half of the couple) we bring our daughter because we know everyone else will and we know they wouldn't do it if they didn't plan it as kid friendly. However, they had an evening party awhile ago and I RSVP'ed that "only lack of a sitter will keep us away." They didn't specifiy "no kids" and there were older kids there, but no toddlers like ours. Booze+mostly adults+smallish place means Grownup Night for us! I love spending time with my kid and my friends' kids, but I love Grownup Nights too!
I would, however, probably not throw a grownup party for at least a few years yet--whatever we host either happens after Girlfriend goes to bed or is Kid Central. We had a Happy Hour party this summer and it was the loudest party we'd ever thrown because of the under-5 set! Of course, not frowning upon parents having drinkypoo probably helps!
i have to giggle because i do bring my dog to friend's houses! but i always ask first and my friend's are all dog friendly. suppose that may change when we start having kids...
When kids are not invited and I am phoning or emailing my invitations, I always ask if they might have trouble getting a sitter. Can I recommend anyone? I suggest they call me if they have a problem, as I can help out or we can re-schedule. No ambiguity there! I have 2 kids and now that they are older, (teen and pre-teen) I even offer up their services, with permission of course.
By the way, I don't have a lot of friends who just obnoxiuosly bring kids, but I do have friends with babies, and I want them to know we are not interested in Baby's First Dinner Party. Nicely of course!
I read the comment from JCrawdad "I mean, can you imagine if somebody brought their cat or dog" and immediately thought, I don't need to imagine that, it happens at my house all the time. Honestly, for me the uninvited dogs are way more of a nuisance than kids. KelceyLove, you are a good dog owner for always asking first, but I have several friends who assume they can bring their dogs, and have also brought the dog when specifically asked not to. I have two dogs and no kids. I entertain a lot, and sometimes tell my guests that they can bring kids and dogs; and sometimes ask that adult humans only attend. The trouble is, because I often have the kind of big, casual party when the kids and dogs are part of the fun, it gets really hard to ask people to leave their pets at home. I end up feeling kind of guilty. It's kind of funny, isn't it? I mean, everyone here seems to be trying so hard to be polite and kind, and so do I - yet it seems to me that it is much more rude to bring anyone who is not invited to a party! (Oh yeah, I have also had friends show up with another friend, even to sit down meals.) But, I love my friends, I love to entertain, and I just try not to let this stuff put a damper on my fun!
I'm very clear about it: I say, "grown ups only this time." People actually enjoy an escape from their kids and I give enough advance notice so they can get a sitter. Only rarely have people declined because they couldn't find someone to watch the kids, and no one has ever brought kids to an evening party.
But to get around it, I generally give brunches, and I don't mind kids at brunches. I try to have something they'll like to eat, and I have a den where I park them. There is always paper and crayons, and DVDs all set for them to watch. (It helps that I have two nephews to supervise.)
Re the subject of bringing dogs to dinner, this past Christmas, my nephew's gfriend all but said that if she can't bring her dog over, then she won't come to dinner (which would mean my nephew wouldn't be coming either). So I reluctantly agreed, and the dog was very well behaved and sweet--except that he kept on running toward the oven whenever I opened it. The oven is pretty close to the floor, and he could have easily been hurt. But they just sat there and giggled--didn't even bother to take him away. So that'll be the last pets welcome dinner for me!
Btw, I have birds. I let the fly around my house. Can you imagine if I tell my friends I want to bring my birds over and they have to be free to fly in their houses? Cracks me up just thinking about it, but after my dog incident, I wouldn't put it beyond anybody....
I do not agree that it's essential to ask about kid's allergies. No one in my family (thankfully) has allergies, but I know parents that do and they make it very clear -- or they bring their own. Especially parents with kids with severe allergies (this seems to happen more and more nowadays), they pack snacks/food along with their epipens. Just like anyone else with a dietary restriction, it's the guest's responsibility to make it known. If the host can accommodate it, fine, but the best way is to take care of it yourself, with the host's permission. "Junior can't have anything prepared with peanuts; if you're having pad thai we'll just bring a dish for him if that's all right."
So true, Covert Ops! I hate the way people put the responsibility for their own problems onto other people: I can't have XXX so everyone else has to not only do without it, too, but is responsible for policing my environment for me.
If I had severe food allergies I'd always make sure I had "back-up" food in case my host served something it would make me ill to eat.
As for bringing my dog, I'd never assume I could bring mine to anyone's house. The one time I did was when she was a puppy, I hadn't had her very long, and it was an overnight visit, so I was reluctant to leave her at home. I brought her kennel and we put it on the deck (Northern California weather being mild enough not to worry about her being outside). Even though I asked before I brought her, and tried to minimize her disruptiveness (hey, she was a puppy!), I don't think my hostess was very pleased with her behavior (although the worst of it was caused by another guest who also brought her dog and wasn't being responsible for its behavior), so I'd never do it again.
Hahaha "Adult humans only," - Kathleen, I'm stealing that and using it the next time I have people over! I am only 26 so very few of my friends have children and I doubt very much anyone would dare bring an animal into my house (I am hyperosmic... almost all pets smell very strong and unpleasant to me), but I think that line is fabulous.
I agree with another poster who suggested making it into a joke - that makes it less snooty and also might make it more likely that they'll remember :) Something like "Must be this tall to dine," or "18 to get in, 30 to drink."
Personally, I find it extremely rude whenever ANYONE who wasn't invited is brought to a party - especially a dinner party, for which I have usually planned extensively - but I guess some people who otherwise might feel that way just don't think of their children as counting as +1's.
The subject is: Telling invitees not to bring kids. It's not a complicated thing. I'm the mom of a toddler. I can't fathom being offended at being told "no kids." I don't care what the event is or the time of day it's happening. None of my parent friends would be remotely offended either. That's why it seems like a non-issue to me.
It's not rude to say "no kids" in your invite. I don't see why it needs to be sugarcoated. If your invitees are too dense or self-absorbed to understand and they bring their kids when they are not welcome, or if banning the kids is offensive to them, they're not worth inviting over.
"And if you always dish up mac ’n’ cheese, you’re not preparing the kids for adult life . . ." I will add that if you always invite kids to a nighttime dinner party that will be totally dull for them, you are not preparing them for adult life.
I agree with Adrienne, it is extremely rude for people to bring others (who were not listed on the invitation) with them to a party! Where are everyone's manners? While I don't believe that it is rude to say "adults only" on an invitation, it is a shame that hosts/hostesses even have to be put in that position.
I don't remember where I read this, but it's a great quote-
"An invitation is, in part, a set of instructions. If there's any part of the invitation that you can't or won't go along with, then you're obligated to send your regrets."
Which says it all beautifully, I think.
I've noticed that when people bring their kids to a party, they tend to not pay much attention to the little wankers (and I'm just as guilty), who are nobody's fools and recognize the opportunity to run roughshod through the place with little or no reprimand. The aftermath of the last family gathering at my house left me with several square yards of ruined flooring- permanently ruined flooring- due to a precocious undersupervised toddler. If you think your little ones would never do anything like that, think again, because you're wrong. It's their nature at that age.
One Christmas when DH and I were first together, we had invited his grown daughter and her grungy livein boyfriend to come for holiday dinner. She called ahead of time and ask DH if they could bring their dog (a small dachshund mix). My cat was also a resident in our house, and DH said "No, please don't bring the dog." I hoped that the need to walk the dog after not too many hours would keep them from staying too long. No such luck. They brought the dog anyway. Of course it was too cold for little Cleo to stay outside or in the garage, so about half of my lovely Christmas Day was spent breaking up their fights. DH's daughter was oblivious, and the boyfriend? Asleep after drinking his dinner 6-pack.
I simply do not understand why there is such a mystery surrounding the edict of 'NO CHILDREN'. Is this not sufficient? Why is not 'offending' such a consideration? I would bet that this was not a problem 40 years ago. I say simply proclaim, in a voice loud and clear, that the demon spawn shall not enter the sanctuary of the feast. If they don't like it tell them to 'cork it'.
If I am invited to something and it's unclear whether children are invited, I tell the host I have to see whether I can find a babysitter. If the host says fine, it's clearly a no-children event. If he or she says, "bring the kids," then I know my children are really welcome.
I never ask whether I may bring my children.
I never even ask whether the children are invited; the question might put prressure on the host to say yes.
Children at dinner? What a question!
I've always found that if you give the little tots a stiff drink they tend to quiet down quickly, and are no trouble for the rest of the evening.
To Bat Guano: You and I think like.
While I don't agree with the old "seen and not heard" philosophy, I don't know why we no longer have any sacred places left for adults. Believe it or not, most of the parents I know have lost their personalities and wouldn't know how to keep a conversation going for a mere sentence if it didn't involve their children in some way. There would be no talk of the world of art, music, food, culture, or even politics. Books? Forget it. Only if you are referring to how many Accelerated Reader points your little tax deduction has accumulated.
I have dinner parties with my own children and have more interesting and intellectual conversations with them than I do with the brain-dead twits in this soccer-mom suburb where the pint-sized bastards have taken over, and a "dinner party" means inviting your child's friend's parents over for pizza or cheez-whiz casserole.
But if I did invite people over again for a dinner party, I would have to say "no kids" because they would bring them. I would take mine somewhere else, of course, or make them swear to hide away since they are older. But people here do get offended when you don't want their little angels around. And they also tend to refuse your invitation when you say, "Would you and John like to come over for dinner Saturday evening?"
I'm old and set in my ways. I just don't want to give in to this culture of child domination. It's not good for us, and it's not good for them.
Ok, I need some help on this one. My kids are grown and they seem to be well adjusted,caring human beings. My fiancee has younger children. 6 and 8, both girls, he shares every other week custody. He is also in law enforcement. When there is a shift party,get together, cookout etc, he insists on taking his children if the event falls on his week. I think adult parties are ADULT PARTIES unless the event is "family" or " bring the kids" specified. He even goes as far as to ask to host/hostess "hey can I /do you mind/ I'v got my kids/ story. I think this is appalling. I feel like whether there is any liquor or not, it is an adult party unless said different. You wouldn't invite yourself, why is it ok to invite your kids? It puts everyone else in an uncomfortable position. People would need to watch their language and watch other people kids( because you know they are watching their own kids) and oh yeah watch what you drink in front of the little darlings. I would have no problem saying,"sorry we have our kids away or no, this is just for adults" But I think many people are afraid to hurt someones feelings and grit their teeth and say, "OK." I would be interested in hearing from anyone on this subject. Thanks
I don't have children and am shocked when friends have brought them to my house uninvited. My house is not childproof- there are exposed outlets, sharp edges, a 100 pound dog, and breakable objects. I don't need to spend my time watching over Little Darling to make sure he doesn't hurt himself.
Oh I do so agree. I, too, have a large Rhodesian Ridgeback and she IS the house. Not to mention the ones we have found along the way. Dogs not kids. I wonder if I would be eager to pick up a kid as I would a dog, haha. I am glad the majority on the page see the world the same. Hey thanks for the comment.
when inviting adults over for dinner, the best possible way to make it clear that kids are not invited is to suggest a time and date BUT give a backup date and make sure to include "or this date, if you have trouble getting a sitter on time" - it's clear and to the point that a sitter is needed for the stinkers! otherwise, let them know, "maybe next time when the TWO of you can get away". And go on with your fabulous party without them.
Yes, people have parties without children. If you don't actually have children yourself, it's the norm. Several reasons, the largest of which is that my apartment is small, just three rooms with lots of sharp-breakable-toxic stuff all over. I don't need to worry about this, because my friends with children (the majority) tend to want me to come over to their house. Easier for them. Also, people without children (and even some with) really find socializing without the kids necessary sometimes. Not all the time, but conversation can be weightier and uninterrupted. Finally, evening parties are for adults, because kids go to bed earlier than adults.
I've noticed in discussions about adults-only parties online, many people express surprise and even a bit of horror that such things exist, as if no decent person would want to socialize without kids. But I remembers my parents (not the most social of people) going to such parties when I was a kid in the suburbs, and no one thought it was odd. They got dressed up (once considered a nice things to get to do), and they got a break from us. Those were the days..
After a horrible party experience our invitations will be specific to say the least with regards to an "ADULT ONLY" party.
I made the dumb assumption that with parents names only on invitations they'd get it- boy was I wrong!!!!! I had a plan with our two girls and the neighbors two girls that included a movie in the guest room in the back of the house. Eight kids showed up with their parents to a late afternoon/evening holiday party. The reason for not inviting families was that our last experience included three children (from the same family) who were outside running around and riping out plants along our side yard. My husband and I worked long and hard to prepare a fun evening for adults and ended up managing children while mom and dad enjoyed coctails and were in such intense conversations they had absolutely no clue what was going on.
This time surprise, surprise the same thing happened. Kids were in the back bedroom with food and soda on the bed, racing from room to room with toys (a ten year old boy pushing a baby doll stroller like it was a race car) and the parents were outside sipping coctails. I didn't even meet half of our guest because I was playing childcare supervisor!!!! Kids were coming up to me with complaints and issues and I told them to go find their parents.
Ironically the families that brought their kids have never hired a sitter and think it's just fine to bring their kids everywhere. The husband refuses to hire a sitter because he doesn't want to spend the money. It's discusting too that they can more than afford it!!! My friend is irritable (hummmm... no alone time with her husband away from the kids... sounds like a fun and exciting marriage!!!!).
When my husband and I have brought our kids to events we always discuss in the car who will be in charge of who. We take turns getting food while the other is watching the kids. We love our children but we also love our time together for a night out. It keeps the flame going and we always reconnect and enjoy our nights out!
Several people asked and clarified our invitations (which we greatly appreciated) however to simply show up with kids and not supervise or take care of them during the party (when mom and dad were only invited) I find incredibly rude and selfish. I was embaressed for the parents that worked hard to find and pay a sitter for the evening. They assumed they'd have a night out without screaming kids running thru the house. THis experience has set these friends apart, ones with class and ones without...a quick way to be checked off for the next party!!!!
I sympathize with amyhaha. I addressed my WEDDING INVITATIONS to adults only. I found out who was well- mannered & who was gauche. I was approached by ALL of the people who had children. Everyone wanted special dispensation for their kids. Mine was a formal party.I paid a lot of money to provide a special venue, boutique tapas, great beverages and servers to take care of the 100 guests. I didn't budget for a flock of babysitters not did I arrange for a separate kid menu. I was deeply offended by those insisting that I also invite their kids & niece/ nephews.
The worst was my own father. He & his wife didn't invite kids to their wedding. Now that his wife has nieces & nephews strewn around the US I am supposed to accommodate them on my guest list. They didn't behave well when I stated that it was a closed topic- the invites were already out!!!
Marriage is all about inclusion, not exclusion. Being upset and perfectionist about your wedding day is silly, more important things at hand kid.
Marriage may be about inclusion, but a WEDDING is an expensive event that only (theoretically) happens once. You spend months preparing, and LOTS of coin to make sure it goes smoothly. If it is not a child-appropriate event, they should NOT be there, regardless of their relationship to the bride and groom.
I was a toddler when my widower father married my stepmother. Presumably I was the most important female in his life, but I was NOT invited to that wedding, although I have pictures to proves that I made a "special appearance" at the reception. I'm OK with this, and so was everyone else.