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Bring Wine, Pay DoubleDo restaurants ever waive corkage fees? |
Dear Helena,
My wife and I celebrated our wedding anniversary at a ritzy restaurant. We brought in a grand cru Burgundy from the year we were married. Since it was a very special wine (and a special occasion), I assumed they would waive the corkage fee. They refused. Is it wrong to ask restaurants to waive or reduce corkage fees?—Old Skinflint
Dear Old Skinflint,
It’s never OK to wriggle out of the corkage fee. Yet customers regularly try to do so, says Christie Dufault, sommelier at the San Francisco restaurant Quince. According to Dufault, pressure from the local wine industry has made the practice of taking wine to restaurants increasingly common in California. (It’s far less common in other states, and in some it’s even illegal.)
People offer a variety of excuses for not paying corkage. Here’s why they don’t fly.
1. “I don’t see what I’m paying for.” The corkage fee isn’t punitive, like being fined for not wearing a tie. You’re being charged for wine service and stemware.
2. “We’ll serve ourselves.” You’re also compensating the restaurant for lost profits on the wine you’d otherwise have bought from the restaurant. Alcoholic beverages have a bigger profit margin than food, and they account for more of a restaurant’s revenues.
3. “I’ll buy a second bottle from the wine list.” If you’re buying a bottle (or more) of wine at the restaurant, why should you pay for lost beverage sales? Because you’re likely not spending as much as you otherwise would have.
4. “Pour yourself a glass.” Customers sometimes offer the server a glass in exchange for waiving the fee. Treats are nice, but servers work in exchange for money.
5. “I know the maitre d’.” Regular patrons, friends of restaurant employees, and industry VIPs sometimes expect the fee to be waived. But dropping the fee is a favor, not an obligation.
6. “This is a special wine.” You shouldn’t expect a break because you’re drinking a special wine, since you shouldn’t bring in any other kind. There’s no point in bringing in merely decent wine if the restaurant has its own list. You definitely shouldn’t bring a wine that the restaurant sells, just to save a few bucks on the markup. For one thing, once you’ve added on the corkage fee, you might find that you could have drunk a better wine at the restaurant for less.
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I guess what is written by Helena is the view from a restaurant owners perspective. How else could such short sightedness be explained? From the consumers stand point, being charged anything over 100% mark up on a bottle of wine is egregious. Yet more and more we are being charged upwards of 400%. Can that be explained away in any other term than greed? Couple that with the ever exploding cost per entree exceeding $40 (good posts regarding that in recent months here on Chowhound) and we the consumer have a right to ask if we can bring that special bottle. Restaurants have been getting away with robbery for years and this BYOB trend is not a fluke. More and more restaurants are starting to realize that the consumer has rights. I will be much more willing to visit a restaurant that has such policy (either with or without wine) than I am with out.
As far as asking to waive fees? I wholeheartedly agree. It would be rude to ask to have it waived. However, which is ruder, to ask it to be waived or to have some snooty manager try and charge you $80 per bottle?
As the popularity of wine continues to rise, restaurants have got to take measures that limit the loss of profits that come with laidback BYOB practices. However, they've got to realize that high corkage fees have the ability to displease their customers in a big way. And in the case of a special occasion that is celebrated with a sentimental bottle of "special wine," a high corkage fee can ruin the entire night. They should tread lightly here and think long and hard about their pricing of wine service and stemware.
<sarcastic>Sometimes I have a big lunch, and don't order an appetizer with dinner. I think restaurants should charge me a fee to make up for their lost profits when this happens.</sarcastic>
I don't order wine in restaurants because of those insane markups. I'd happily start if the markups were smaller. Otherwise, I know what those bottles cost at my local wine shop and I'll buy them there to drink at home. Yes, I'm cheap. No, I'm not the only one.
I agree-- I tend to stay away from wine at restaurants, even though I really enjoy it. It's just plain hard to justify the price of a bottle, ugly markup and all. While restaurants would be recovering lost profits from diners who regularly do purchase restaurant bottles, corkage offers them an opportunity to make pure, additional profit from diners who bring their own bottles for a special occasion. The profits from regular wine-drinkers more than pays for those diners to have the occasional wine-on-the-cheap. Do I think it sucks being charged $15 on top of what I paid for my BYO-bottle? Absolutely. But those are the rules of dining out, and the options are to either go along with it as part of the "scene" or drink somewhere else.
I wish the article would have been more specific as to what restaurant are charging for the corkage fee. $15 sounds reasonable if the guy is going to give me the correct glass, maybe decant, and pour my wine all night. $80 is totally ridiculous.
I don't see a problem with corkage, as long as it's reasonable. it's better than not being able to bring that rare or special bottle to dinner with you at all. If there was no fee, don't you think everyone would be bringing their own wine? (and beer, and vodka). High end restaurants put a lot of effort into creating a good wine list, as they should. if they go to the effort of choosing wines that pair well with their foods, don't you think they're hoping you go with that list and get the full experience?
besides, last I checked it's still a deal. $50 bottle + $20 corkage works out to a 70$ bottle of wine. Ordering that same wine off a wine list would be more like $100
if you're cheap...admit it, and be happy with a glass of the house red. There's nothing wrong with that.
I think the original question is an ignorant one. I find it hard to believe that someone who brings in a Grand Cru Burgundy would assume the restaurant would waive corkage automatically.
But, I agree that Helena seems to be solely on the side of the restaurants and she doesn't offer any helpful insight into the issue.
I think it's common practice that if you're going to bring wine, ask the restaurant their policy before you arrive. If you're bringing a bottle that is already on their list, leave yours at home and pick something else.
Granted, markups on wine are over-the-top, but your paying for the dining experience as a whole.
However, I do have a major issue if I'm still charged a corkage fee after buying bottles off of the restaurant's list. I won't return to that restaurant again.
Every square inch of a restaurant costs the owner money 24 hours a day. In a successful restaurant they have, perhaps, five or six hours per day where they can make income that will cover electricity, rent, labor, insurance and liability, not to mention the interest and principal on the huge loans they took out to upfit the space, buy kitchen equipment and, yes, stemware. Food and beverage cost make up only about 30% of what you pay for menu pricing, because of all of the other costs the owner is responsible for. If a regular customer comes in with a special bottle of wine for a special occassion, sure, I'll let it go. But when a couple I've never seen before comes in with an unannounced bottle, I will charge what the market will bear because I've got bills to pay and a responsibility to my regular guests to stay open.
In a restaurant you are paying for the whole experience. If you've got a great bottle of wine and you don't want to pay corkage, then please buy some great wineglasses and a cool wine key and drink it in the intimacy of your own home with your guests. I don't think it's fair to expect any restaurant to comp that experience for you at the expense of it's ability to stay in business.
I think $15 to $25 corkage is fine in a high-end restaurant. I don't think BYOW corkage is intended to save people money on dining out - if you want to save money, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to cook for yourself! I'd expect it's allowed so people can bring a better calibre or favourite/special bottle of wine not being offered on the establishment's wine list. If the prices are too outrageous, either don't go there or order something else/nothing to drink.
Reading this makes me happy, for once, that I live in Pennsylvania where more and more upscale restaurants are BYO. Some have nominal ($5-10) corkage fees, but most have none at all. And, living close to Delaware and NJ, I can skip town and the archaic laws of PA's Liquor Control Board, and purchase my wine in a nearby "free" state.
I like wine. I don't bring wine to places that have broad, and reasonable wine lists. By "reasonable" I mean lists where there are decent wines in the $40 to $60 a bottle range. I resent paying those prices for wines that wholesale for between $8 and $15 dollars, sometimes much less and are often marginally drinkable. I understand paying for overhead, service, inventory etc, but I see far too many lists in middling places that gouge on wine. (Mark ups of 200 % to even 400% are getting to be common place.) I'm not cheap -- I just don't like being ripped off. I agree that places have no obligation to waive a corkage fee, but when I am charged $30 a pop for each bottle, and that requires the place to clean two glasses, maybe four and of course pour the wine, I know the point isn't so much to recoup expenses, as make up for profits lost because of the overpriced wine list. I don't go back to those places. Want to sell more wine? Drop prices and choose carefully. Given the amazing variety and quality of wines available at fairly low prices there is no excuse for the large number of places that offer a poor selection and ridiculous prices on their wine list. Too many places are just lazy. You want "regulars" in your place? Just try a reasonable and carefully selected wine list to go with good food. Customers who feel valued, and not ripped off, come back.
There is nothing wrong with reasonable corkage fees.
There is something wrong with paying corkage and not receiving proper stemware and correct service.
I prefer to frequent restaurants that are BYO friendly (reasonable corkage, proper stems & service).
Emtpy seats will kill a business quickly.
"You’re being charged for wine service and stemware."
Baloney. Do we get charged extra for bringing our own cake for a birthday? That requires service and plates. It's all about the lost profits, which is persuasive, but only up to a point.
Many restaurants charge a cutting fee for people who bring cakes.
True about the "cutting fee" for cakes at some restaurants.
On a local food board in Portland, OR we started to call it "cake-age." ;o)
Here in PDX, the average corkage fee is around $15, and it is assumed that you are bringing a special bottle and/or something not on the wine list at the restaurant.
Personally, I like ordering wines by the glass (especially when I am driving, which is usually) and appreciate places that offer a nice range of wines by the glass. Then you can have a glass with each course that pairs well with what you are eating.
"Do we get charged extra for bringing our own cake for a birthday? "
Where, oh where did this moronic habit come from? I've run restaurants with top ratings where we had a first-rate pastry chef... and a group comes, hands me a ghastly, gaudy, cheap-assed supermarket birthday cake and says: "Here's the cake."
Let me ask you something: did you ever try walking into a bar with your own bottle of Scotch, or a six-pack of beer, hand it to the bartender and say: "Here. This is what I'm drinking." Ever try bringing a steak from the supermarket into the kitchen of a restaurant and tell the Chef to cook it for you?
Now, tell me... what's the difference?
We don't allow customers to bring their own cakes, we say we have to take responsibility for whatever we serve and we can't be sure that the cake was properly handled (eg. left in your car for a few hours). Not like wines, if it's sealed it's no different from something we bought from our suppliers. If it's flawed and you brought it yourself too bad. But I'd probably waive the corkage...
I think that diners are generally irritated by the ridiculous markups on wine and I think the market should tell restaurants what is and is not acceptable. As consumers we can do this by frequenting BYOB restaurants, or better yet, restaurants that make good wines available at reasonable prices keeping in mind high food costs and the high percentage of profits that come from alcohol sales in the industry.
That being said, if a particular bottle of wine is "special" enough, you should be willing to pay the corkage fee. Asking that it be waived or reduced is cheap. If you feel that the corkage fee or prices on the winelist amount to highway robbery, let your opinion be known by going without wine for the evening and not returning to that restaurant thereafter. I am sure that having the chef cook the meal at your house where you don't have to pay corkage would be much more expensive than whatever the restaurant charges for you to drink that "special" bottle at your table.
It's interesting that "the customer is always right" mentality has so deeply pervaded American culture. This said, the corkage fee is simple economics, coupled with legal considerations in certain states.
The Tangible
The opportunity cost in procuring, properly storing, maintaining inventory and properly serving wine (with all of the necessary accessories and service personnel,) is costly. Restaurants are private businesses, at the very least, and any trend inhibiting the core competency of any business (making money) can be refused by the proprietor, just as service can be refused. Many foodies, wino's, chowhounds etc. take for granted that the restaurant industry is the only industry where you can do absolutely everything right and still fail; and in taking it a step further, because so many restaurateurs, managers, chefs, servers and support staff do their jobs so well, that it takes much effort by many people to produce your "experience" at the table. The thing is, you never see the dishwasher hand-cleaning the stemware, rarely see the server polishing the stem ware, never see the sommelier and stewards pouring through (no pun intended) their memories to produce the perfect pairings and eliminate any holes in their wine lists. All of this costs money. And when you multiply the opportunity cost in storing wine--the climate controls, the square footage that is being used for storage and not turning tables, etc.--you start to understand why restaurateurs and managers might simply prohibit outside bottles, altogether.
The Intangible
"Sommelier"'s post illustrates the general disdain of wine stewards and sommeliers, though said post does not really get to the nexus of why they're disdained. Over the last couple of years, chefs and sommeliers have become rock stars in popular culture to the point that they are household names. (Certainly most are deserving of their status, though some certainly are not.) The point of this is that restaurant enthusiasts and the general public are starting to realize and respect the product and service of these professionals, though the general public does not bear witness to the hours spent puzzling over the science of combinations and pairings, only for those professionals to take it to an artform. In the best restaurants, the wine list, captain's list, etc., is not arbitrary and neither is the food. Even more recently, it is not unheard of to read or hear of Masters of the culinary arts to "go back to school" to attain the MS (advanced) or MS3 certification, to better construct a menu and wine list co-dependent on the other, if not to expand their knowledge as a best practice to ensure that you as a guest get every bit of your money's worth when experiencing their craft. Simply put, bringing-in your own bottle and placing it on the table is insulting.
All in all, in taking both the tangibles and intangibles into consideration and in an effort to broaden perspectives, why not re-frame the corkage fee as a "tribute" to the house. When calling ahead, if the restaurant of your choice will not honor your request, use your leverage as a consumer in the marketplace, and take your business to a restaurant that will. And when you get there, tell them why you're there.
And lastly, in the special instance of the original poster or in those instances that you have your hands on a very special bottle, call ahead and speak directly with the executive chef and/or sommelier and explain your motivation in this fashion: "I have experienced the [lamb dish]; the first time I enjoyed it I thought of my beautiful wife's affinity for lamb; on the cusp of our anniversary, I want to share this experience with her, coupled with a very special bottle of wine that I'd like to bring as not only a testament to your art-form, but as a testament to the love of sharing experiences with my wife until the day we die...and I have no problems in paying a reasonable corkage fee."
Any chef or sommelier that refuses a request couched in quite this way, has little to no business in the culinary arts and I would even go so far as to question as to whether they are even human.
For what it's worth...
I have to say as a customer and a restaurant manager that everyone states a good debate. However, as a manager I must say that if you don't have corkage fees you will inturn loose profit. Your business will loose money and you will get the rep that hey they don't charge, lets bring our cheap bottle of wine and eat there. On the other hand, for special occoations I will sometimes wave the fee. It all depends on the customer. If the customer is an ass about it, I will charge. If the customer is passionate and sincere, I will let it slide. It is very easy to point the finger and say harsh comments about restaurant managers and owners charging fees, but when the shoe is on the other foot, that is when you understand fully where we are comming from.
If I have a particular bottle I want to enjoy with friends in a restaurant, I always check with the establishment regarding BYOW policy and fees, as well as their wine list. I only take wine that is not on the list.
I once took a Ch. Palmer add Alterego to a fine dining establishment. There were only two of us, but I wanted to compare the two wines side by side. The restaurant had a corkage service. When the sommelier received the wine from the hostess, I watched as he removed all standard stemware and brought out Riedel Bordeaux stems and two carafes. When we arrived at the table he asked when we wanted the wines opened.
I offered a glass of each to both the sommelier and our server (who was from Europe and commented about the wines). We noticed that the glasses were taken back to a service area where other servers were provided the opportunity to taste the wines. Several of them approached our table between courses to thank us for the opportunity to taste the wines. We returned the corks to the bottles at the conclusion of our evening and gave the remaining wine to the staff to share.
While I did not exect the corkage to be waived, it did not appear on the bill. Perhaps a gracious gesture from the restaurant. Our gratuity was based on the inclusion of the fee (and then some), to be fair to the server and staff. I believe the wines were memorable for all who tasted them.
Some restaurants in Australia charge a corkage, and donate that charge to charity, which means everyone wins. Restaurant doesn't look tight, charity gets money, you drinks your wine. And you're still encouraged to buy from the wine list.
what is a corkage fee anyway
I take wine to restaurants all the time, and I also patronize restaurants where I always purchase wine from the reasonably priced wine lists. Sometimes the fee is waived, sometimes it isn't, but I see no reason for me to expect it to be waived. Taking a cheap bottle of wine to a restaurant to save money is just crass, you can drink the Yellowtail at home if you want, but taking a nice bottle to a restaurant is a privilage you shouldn't have any problem paying a reasonable corkage fee for.
I think everyone in America should serve a mandatory 2 year stint in the hospitality industry after high school (Kinda like the Swiss army). Most problems and issues, particularly when it comes to price, corkages and tipping, always arise from those who have never worked in a restaurant. They don't get it...never will.
After all restaurants are businesses, and need profitability to stay afloat. One can only hope that special bottles are brought in for corkage. I feel up to $25 is pretty fair for fees. If you buy a bottle from the list, you should be able to get corkage fees waived.
LOVED reading SanseiDesigns' post. If every customer was so repectful and gracious there would never be another corkage fee on any restaurant's bill. He (or she) did everything right, from checking with the restaurant beforehand to offering a taste to the staff. I am so glad that the restaurant staff was knowledgable enough to appreciate the wine, to upgrade the glassware and to waive the fee. That is a restaurant I'd patronize anytime.
This topic is popular online. I've seen corkage practice in California for 30 years, the practice has grown from slightly exotic to mainstream. Good (widespread) form among wine enthusiasts bringing in wines, especially multiple wines for a big dinner, is also to order one or more bottles from the restaurant list (regardless of corkage fees). Most good restaurants respond well to respectful wine-appreciating diners. (Better than to diners eager to save a few dollars by bringing in a bottle they bought cheaply that's also on the wine list, and who rationalize this behavior in self-righteous tones.) And yes, waiving corkage fees isn't unusual.
StagirasGhost writes: "Sommelier"'s post illustrates the general disdain of wine stewards and sommeliers,"
Really? Now that's strange that you would say that. I have a Master's in English Literature, have published dozens of articles, teach, and lecture on a regular basis. My use of the English language is clear, precise and, normally, concise. No matter how many times I read my brief posting here, I cannot see any evidence of my exhibiting "distain". Perhaps you have some unresolved problems that you need to work out and have decided to use me as a convenient target?
In stating that one "never see(s) the sommelier and stewards pouring through (no pun intended) their memories to produce the perfect pairings and eliminate any holes in their wine lists", you further reveal that you are writing a fiction. I have been in my profession for over twenty years and most of the Sommeliers that I know do exactly what you claim that they do not. Where does your audacity to accuse so many professional men and women come from? It seems that you are demonstrating the worst kind of snobbery: in an effort to make your writing sound as if it were the work of an intellectual, you fail to base your work on the facts.
At least Irwin Corey, when he pretends to be knowledgeable, has a sense of humor.
I don't see anything wrong with corkage fees. I always ask what the policy is when making the reservation and remind the maitre d when I arrive so there won't be any embarassing moments. The fee around New Orleans has always been in the $15 to $25 range. Never had a restaurant that refused to let us bring a bottle, and never had a restaurant that didn't charge for corkage. It's worth the fee to have a favorite wine to compliment the meal. It's usually when I know what I plan to order and that there are no wines I'm crazy about on the wine list, otherwise I wouldn't even ask to do it. I feel that a sophisticated chef understands a patron who loves a certain wine with a certain dish. I would never think that there should be no corkage fee for bringing your own bottle under any circumstances. After all, they don't have to let you bring your wine in the first place. And as for mark up - do the math on regular bar drinks. You pay $5 to $10 for a cocktail compared to $10 to $30 for a whole bottle. Obviously there is a mark up on anything in a restaurant.
This thread has been dead for a while, but I couldn't resist adding my two cents.
First off, I must agree with Beau Noppatee, above, when he points out the markup on other items at a restaurant. Food items have at least a 300% markup in fine dining restaurants, and spirits are usually marked up around 400% over wholesale. Soft drinks? Try 1000-2000%. Yet rarely do patrons complain about those prices. .
Why, then, all the hassle over wine markups and corkage fees? Possibly because the price for a single bottle can easily be 3-4 times the price of any single food item (or higher). In addition, the exorbitant rise in wine prices over the last ten years means that few wine lists offer much under $70-80 that the wine lover would consider drinking.
One solution is to seek out places with less agressive pricing on wine. Sure, many restaurateurs blindy mark up every wine %300 over wholesale or more. But many savvy operators have realized that pricing wine with a lower markup or on a regressive sliding scale attracts more serious wine drinkers. Seek these places out.
Regarding corkage, I have additional thoughts, some already presented above. First off, never assume that the fee will be waived. Always call ahead to get the restaurant's policy. Some places will waive the corkage if you purchase a bottle from their list. Others will not. Again, seek out and patronize the places that do.
You should be bringing something exceptional, not the $8 bottle of coastal chardonnay you picked up at the drugstore on the way over. Most restaurants will never allow corkage on a wine they already have on their list, or something pedestrian.
It's not expected, but offering a taste of your exceptional wine to the waiter and/or sommelier is greatly appreciated, and may lead to an accommodation on the corkage fees as someone mentioned above. Good restaurants cultivate repeat business, especially with friendly, polite, knowledgable diners. If you've followed the guidelines above, you're just the kind of customer they want to see more of. On the other hand, if you complain about the corkage fee and generally make a pomous ass of yourself, you're not getting anything for free.
Hi,
without reading any of the many other responses, I'll offer my own:
as a waiter in Oakland, I can say that the waiving of the corkage fee does happen from time to time, but really only under special circumstances (friend of the owner, e.g., or customer had awful entree or something), and almost never when solicited by the guest.
Generally, the corkage fee is a way for a restaurant to compensate for the wine sales/profits they lose every time a guest brings their own. Many of our favorite restaurants would close, or come close to it, if forced to take these hits by waiving corkage fees, or by giving those fees to charity (novel, but unsound idea)
That said, all managers I have worked with, when coming up with the exact price of their corkage fees, never do so with greed and relish. It's a difficult decision, and believe me they'd much rather someone buy from them, then calculate this awkward price. The wine, like the food and liquor, is something we simply pay extra for to have it served to us in a convivial atmosphere.
Like someone above said, imagine if we brought our own food in place of having the chef cook for us. Hmmm. Doesn't sound quite right. Also, if you really have a wine you'd like to have with dinner, not just something grabbed from around the corner, DO check with the restaurant in advance to make sure they do NOT already carry it. It's just a respect thing, plain and simple. It's frustrating for an owner to realize (s)he won't be selling his/her Montrachet 1990 because someone just brought their own.
Of course, some places do BYO as an option. Now we know that is an option, and so we shouldn't retrospectively expect aall restaurants to do the same. Some do and some don't. The ones that don't do BYO simply can't afford it because their wine list cost a lot to assmble, and can't just sit there forever.
Anyway, if they waive it good for you, but really we as customers should try to extinguish the tiny flame within us hoping and expecting they will. They won't do it for the food, chances are they won't for the wine.
We like wine a lot, and our wine refrigerator is filled with better wines than nearly all the restaurants in our area.
There is a very nice little seafood restaurant in our town that doesn't charge a corkage fee. Guess who has been getting a lot more business from us than the other restaurants in town for over a decade?
We offer a taste to our server and the manager every time we go, and leftover wine goes to the kitchen. We tip as though we'd bought wine there -- 20% of the value of the wine you bring adds up fast to your server.
If you want to talk about profits, let's talk about the difference between customers who patronize a restaurant regularly because of their policies as opposed to customers who visit irregularly. And I recommend them all the time too.
And let me add this, any restaurant that is depending on the amount of their corkage fees to make the difference in their being profitable or not has already failed. If they are a successful restaurant that is more than the latest trendy thing that will be gone in 2 years, then they can afford enough flexibility to be intelligent about how they implement their policies.
All that being said, I'm inclined to agree with the poster who thought that the problem as stated in the OP was contrived and silly. If you have a grand cru burgundy, you almost certainly know enough to have checked ahead of time with the restaurant so no one is surprised.
It's also interesting that Helena asked the Quince sommelier as they have the highest corkage fee in town at $35 and steadfastly refuse to remove corkage even after you've purchased $140 in other wines bottles and glasses). This is obviously not a well balanced article by any stretch
I will add my european point of view: in Italy it is totally un-acceptable to bring your own bottle of wine...your wine is for your house...on the other side the average mark up is between 35 to 150%.... sometimes you find restaurants that charge less than wine stores!!!!! On the other hand, understanding the frustration of customers I do not understand who intentionally brings the same bottle of the same year that the restaurants sells for sure an higher price than the wine shop!!! The wine shop doesn't offer you glasses, decanter, somebody doing it for your, a climatized environment and all the restaurant experience...at the same time I think that as it is happening the wine lists in many restaurants are slowing down!!! with half price days even for high end restaurant...that is also a very good occasion to taste wine that maybe it is really worth to pay double....to end this, I understand high prices on older aged bottle, I would add 15 or more bucks on each wine worth cellaring for every year I cellar it, I do not understand big prices just for big names!!!