readingstand's Profile
Good Dinner in Palo Alto?
Thanks, Judith. I've realized that my method of looking for threads on this topic before I posted my query was flawed (tried to limit by date and ended up missing lots of posts), and that in fact Evvia gets mostly positive reviews here. (By "here" I meant Chowhound; I'd inadvertently excluded lots of good posts.)
Good Dinner in Palo Alto?
Wife & I are Caltraining down tonight to meet out-of-town friend visiting P.A. What's our best bet for a medium- to high-end dinner, most any type (except sushi--makes pregnant wife sad), within say a 10-minute drive of the station (Univ. Ave. & El Camino R.)? If on our home turf in SF, we'd take her to Delfina (main or Pizz.), Range, Foreign Cinema, La Ciccia, Minako, Thep Phanom, or a similar favorite; what's in that league of price/quality/formality level in P.A.? Evvia and Junnoon get good mainstream press but very mixed mostly negative here.
SF hound ISO high-end Vancouver date spot
Thanks fmed & smel (and Ms. Gill) for the heads up on West; as clueless visitor, I hadn't even known of the chef change. Based on recs here and one other rec (see below), we've switched to Parkside. (Just changed on opentable and will call tom'w to try for a patio table.) The website says "casual dress"; will we actively stand out if dressed up? The other Parkside rec was from the very nice Neil Ingram of Boneta, where we had a great meal tonight, and who, when I recapped my OP and mentioned my doubts re West, considered carefully and then chose Parkside, deeming it his favorite fine dining in the city.
Not that you don't already know, but big thumbs up to Boneta--very creative & lively yet warm and relatable space, super friendly staff (maitre d' sat down with us to consult our map and tell us best route to walk back, late, to the hotel district), and we had a very fresh, beautifully but not preciously presented tomato & mozz salad, the excellent tastes-familiar-and-novel-at-once bison carpaccio I've seen raved here, and a great halibut with pork belly on peas, corn and morels--a classic spring/summery light bright fish presentation with the pork belly a rich, earthy, surprising yet harmonious contrast.
But then--sorry for rambling post, but must vent--a very disturbing experience at (or, rather, outside) CinCin. We wanted to visit on the strong rec of a friendly acquiantance who works in the industry in SF (and who specifically praised the service at CinCin), so planned dinner at Boneta then dessert at CC. We got to CC at 11:35 but, despite signs proclaiming "open 'til midnight," found their gate locked. I phoned from the sidewalk; he who answered said that they were doing some kind of kitchen cleaning and so closing "10 minutes early" (which, as it was 11:35, was so obvious a lie as to be hard to read as anything but open contempt), and that he didn't know of anywhere in the neighborhood that might be open--all with no trace of regret or apology. OK--things may arise to cause one to close early, and how could he know we'd planned our evening around their keeping their stated hours, but if I closed my business before I'd told people I would, then when I turned someone away, I'd apologize--maybe even take a moment to try to think of an alternative for them. I hope that this was an aberration, but CinCin is on my blackest list.
SF hound ISO high-end Vancouver date spot
Thanks so much for quick replies! We're leaning toward West, but with a caveat/query: my superficial sense is that it was a (the?) pioneer in the high-end creative impeccable-technique locavore approach here, and is/was the temple and pinnacle thereof (like Chez Panisse or French Laundry, to return to hometown analogies) but I saw one recent negative post here and want to check if there's been slippage or laurel-resting? I've tried searches but can't avoid getting swamped with every post/thread containing the word "west" in any sense . . . Tips how to find a recent report/thread?
SF hound ISO high-end Vancouver date spot
My wife & I have come for our honeymoon w/o doing our chow homework. Biggest advice need: a no-holds-barred dinner to which we can wear a jacket and little black dress, respectively. We don't want the fanciest place for fanciness's sake: excellent food, preferably local-vorish & creative, is the top priority, but somewhere sexy/stylish/elegant that'll feel right for a dressed-up date. (In SF, if analogy is useful, say Gary Danko/La Folie/Myth or, more casual, Delfina/Range/Foreign Cinema.) We're excited to try Chambar and Boneta while here, but they sound a bit casual for this outing (or am I wrong?).
2nd biggest need: lunch spot in, or walking distance from, Stanley Park--any cuisine but sushi (one of the first sacrifices of pregnancy/impending parenthood). Thanks!
Maverick Brunch Report
I third Universal but must add that I respectfully disagree with Lori SF about its food being flat out better than FC's. I'm not sure which I'd rank ahead of the other, if either; I'm definitely sure that I think them pretty darn close. And FC recently hired a new person to make espresso drinks who's leagues better than any and all predecessors there, thereby improving their brunch a whole notch.
Finally, OP should consider adding Bar Tartine to the list. I know that its brunch has gotten mixed reviews here, and, while I've been several times, I've always gotten the same thing, so I can't speak very broadly to it. Still, I've liked that one thing, and think that BT may well deserve mention in the company set forth above. What do others think?
Memphis Chowhounds coming to SF
I'm a big breakfast fan myself, and can say that, of places mentioned above, Maverick and Universal are both excellent high-end brunches (by which I do *not* mean hotel buffets, but brunch made with top-notch ingredients and creative flavor combinations at a place one might go for a dinner date). However, both are quite small and might be a challenge for a party of six; I wouldn't try it without a reservation unless at an off-peak hour. I know that Boulette's Larder in the Ferry Building applies their meticulous, creative approach and super-fresh, local ingredients to breakfast; that might be a great stealth option. I second Absinthe, and they're bigger and could more easily take a party of six; two more excellent high-end brunch options in the same line are Foreign Cinema in the Mission (and near a lot of interesting shopping, sights, etc.) and Citizen Cake. Absinthe and CC are a block from one another in Hayes Valley, a fun shopping district not terribly far from you, so if you can't/don't make reservations, you could go there, see which can take you first, and wander a bit while waiting.
Finally, in the "quality classic greasy spoon diner" category, two San Francisco institutions one or both of which you have to try--and go on a weekday to avoid lines--are It's Tops, which has been in the same location on Market St. b/w Valencia & Guerrero (you can take an antique street [not cable] car from the Embarcadero) since 1935, and is a fascinating pre-chrome diner with an amazing antique waffle iron (try the bacon-waffle); and the St. Francis Fountain (b/k/a The St. Francis) at 24th and . . . Florida? Bryant?, which was built as a soda fountain in 1918, looks much as it probably did then, with lots of amazing preserved woodwork, and now does great breakfasts all day long (plus ice cream and a brisk trade in 1970s and early 80s vintage trading cards for TV shows, pop stars, movies, etc.).
Citizen Cake and the Single Diner
I have a different CC experience to report. I've gone there as a singleton for brunch many times in the past several years and often had wonderful, and always good, service, both at tables and at the bar. (And their brunch is quite good.) Of course, the brunch crew and/or vibe may well be largely or entirely different, and I may by now be like the Fawned Over Couple in OP's narrative (I don't have any special connection with anyone involved in the restaurant other than having become a regular in the usual way), but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend CC's brunch for a single diner. (No, I've never tried having dinner there as a singleton.)
Zuni, A16, Foreign Cinema
I think that Foreign Cinema is very good for dinner, but that both Delfina and Range are a notch above. (N.B. check FC's website to see what movie they're showing when you're visiting, and if you're interested, that's a big plus, and you should time your reservation to a showtime.) Also, Delfina and Range are in a more gentrified part of the Mission that might be more amenable to you & your daughter, if I correctly infer that you're not hardened urbanites. (Having said that, I don't think that either FC's or Zuni's neighborhood is *unsafe*, just a little gritty depending on your attitude/experience--panhandlers, not muggers.) If you went relatively early to Range, you could couple it with visits to City Art (an artist-run gallery) and 826 Valencia, a/k/a the Pirate Supply Store, a very hip teen writing-education center funded by an excellent pirate supply store in the front of the space. And Delfina's block is full of great auxiliary food options, i.e., Bi Rite Creamery and Tartine Bakery (each the subject of many posts here, and where you could get dessert and the next day's breakfast, respectively), and is right next to Dolores Park for strolling. (Range is within strolling . . . range of the park as well.) But I don't mean to diss Foreign Cinema . . . and now that I think of it, it's only three blocks away from Range, and thus in strolling distance of most of the same stuff; it's just a different micro-'hood, as it were, 'cause it's *just* east of the gentrification line. Anyway, I strongly second the notion of going to FC for brunch--their brunch is truly excellent, up there with Universal's or Citizen Cake's. Also, I strongly second either L'Osteria or Mario's in North Beach for lunch (though haven't been to either in a few years, so must rely on others that they've not gone downhill); of the two, I think that L'Osteria has a broader range, and their milk-braised(?) pork (milk-somethinged, for sure) is incredible.
Amazing gnocchi at Farina
Did you mean by your last line to imply that ambiance and/or servce were lacking?
Ritual
Ritual has clovers in its original Valencia St location as well, FYI (or FEI). (In case folks are curious, see http://cloverequipment.com/whyclover/why_clover.aspx). I like the Clover a good deal--it makes coffee with the mouthfeel of tea.
Noe Valley?
Obviously I triggered a lurking issue re Chloe's lines that didn't really have much to do with my post, but I'd like to reiterate for the record that I warned the OP that lines are bad at prime weekend brunch hours and recommended going on a weekday morning (or late on a weekend--say after 2:00). I've probably done so at least a hundred times in the last few years and usually had no wait, and only rarely more than 5-10 minutes. (More than that and I don't bother.) While their brunch items aren't as ambitious or meticulous as, say, Foreign Cinema or Universal or other weekend-only brunch places of that level, they are very well executed basic classics. (Well, at least I can say this of the scrambled eggs, french toast with strawberries, and pancakes--I've never ordered anything else. (Why would one?)) Their coffee is decidedly mediocre, but that's my only significant gripe.
Noe Valley?
I third Incanto and La Ciccia (and add that La Ciccia is extremely warm and welcoming--the sort of place you're very happy to support); add that I've found the food at The Front Porch to be good to great (and stylistically novel--San Franciscofied Southern), and the place itself lively and fun; and then add (with some disbelief that no one else has, since the topic of brunch has come up) . . . Chloe's! It's a great little place for traditional breakfast/brunch food, which they serve 'til mid-afternoon seven days a week, bless them. The lines are quite bad at prime brunch hours Sat. and Sun., but it's great (and manageable) to go on a weekday morning. They also serve lunch food, but I've never gotten past the pancakes, french toast, and eggs.
not-to-miss sf bakery?
Maybe I'm confused. I purchased what was definitely a banana cream pie at Mission Pie, and inferred from the comments above that it must in fact have been made at Destination.
As for Tartine's crust, I do agree that it is sometimes harder than ideal; I prefer a crust that errs on the side of hard to one that errs on the side of soft (particularly with a cream pie, since a soft crust makes for a textural monotony). But I will withdraw the implication that it's objectively better and retreat to the subjective/stylistic preference line (while reiterating that that's all I ever said about the chocolate aspect).
not-to-miss sf bakery?
I agree with the gist of the Destination/Tartine discussion above--I finally tried Destination based on comments here and found it very likeably homey and very successful at accomplishing what it sets out to accomplish--*except* I have to go with Tartine's b.c. pie because of (a) a technically superior crust (crisper, flakier) and (b) the use of a thin dark-chocolate layer. The latter is obviously a question of preference, but I think that a b.c. pie without a contrasting flavor can be a little blandly/monotonously sweet. But having said all that, Destination/Mission Pie's is still quite good; I happily devoured all of the slice of it that I had tonight.
very lively dinner in SF...please!
I concur re Absinthe. Other good candidates that I know include Nopa, Limon, Oola, or The Front Porch (depending on just what type of people you like to watch and in what neighborhood). (A16 is great, but in the heart of Striped Shirt Boy territory.)
I know that chowhounds tend to avoid the Z-- word, but that certain other website has a "people watching" feature you can add to a search, which yielded the following, none of which I've been to and which I thus can't recommend (but all of which Z-- gave decent-to-good scores): 2223, Asia de Cuba, The Public, and Sushi Groove, plus several in the hip-nightclub-with-decent-food category (Bambuddha Lounge, Lime, Mecca). Finally, though reports here have been mixed, I think that The Salt House aims to be the sort of place you want.
Strawberry season starts - stand & shortcake sightings?
That means that Tartine's stawberry galettes can't be far behind. I know various 'hounds don't love all or even most Tartine pastries, but there really can be no resisting their strawberry galettes--keep an eye out.
And speaking of which, Mission Pie (at 25th & Mission) had strawberry galettes today, of which I'm eating a half as I type. Very satisfying in a homey way--pastry a tiny bit bland and chewy but all in all very good, and stawberries flavorful altough the flavor's mingled (enhanced? muddied? you be the judge) with something else, maybe rhubarb (sorry for lack of discrernment). All in all, quite good and worth a try (unless Tartine's got theirs for sale).
Any news on Spork?
I just had dinner at the bar and greatly enjoyed it. I agree with haikureviews's capsule: "food is excellent and the staff is super friendly."
I'll start with the latter, as I'm very much an afficianado of restaurants as social institutions with food. (E.g., after having gone to Zuni every few weeks for a few years, always after 11 when other places are closed, I stopped going cold once I found Nopa, with its similar hours and vastly more welcoming, individualizedly friendly vibe--even though its food is a notch less good.) During my Spork visit (solo, which does make interaction easier), the chef introduced himself and chatted a little, the bartender was extremely friendly and genuinely interested in how I liked everything, how they were doing, etc., and one server made sure I was being tended to and established a friendly rapport even though she had no official reason to interact with me at all. Very impressive.
As for food, on the bartender's rec, I started with shrimp & avocado, Louie style, which came in a faux cup of endive, and was an excellent mix of very fresh ingredients, a nice contrast of textures and colors, and strong flavors. Perhaps a bit oversauced for my taste, but only to quibble level. I then had the "meat and potatoes": braised beef, mashed potatoes, and carrots vichy in a sort of deconstructed stew. (Not that they'd been stewed together, that is; it was the classic components of a stew prepared separately and brought together on the plate.) They'd braised the beef with paprika and something else that I think--though here my never-very-discerning palate may betray me--was citrusy . . . in any event, it made for a strong, bright, upfront flavor that contrasted nicely with the somewhat falling apart, earthy stewiness of the meat and potatoes. The carrots were also softened to a degree that harmonized with the M & P, but by no means mushy. Dessert was stawberries with mascarpone and marsala in a little bowl (and with a spork!)--simple and very tasty (and one of two screw-up-proof, satisfying, simple desserts, to which they've made the wise choice, imho, to limit themselves in the restaurant's early days).
All in all, I'll definitely fulfill the staff's repeatedly and seemingly very sincerly expressed hope that they'll see me again soon.
p.s. I didn't get any, but they french-press coffee from (and share an employee with) Ritual Roasters next door, so I've no doubt that they make a good cup (for anyone who hasn't, say, already had coffee *at* Ritual an hour before they visit Spork).
Best way to stop spicy burn?
Another way to combine the suggestions here, and always a fine idea on its own terms, would be mint ice cream.
Sweet Potato Fries (and a few other things) at Taylor's Refresher
Well, yes, it was precisely because you didn't order burgers, and because Atomica's comment concerned what's a sensible price for "lunch for 2 at a burger joint," that what I compared to Burger Joint was not your particular meal, but a hypothetical burgers-fries-and-shake meal. (Speaking of which, Taylor's shakes are quite good.)
As for Atomica's response, I've never tried Big Mouth, but now will have to (even though no one's yet claimed that beer fights bad cholesterol!)--thanks for the tip!
Sweet Potato Fries (and a few other things) at Taylor's Refresher
Well, yes, that's a lot, but husbandcinsf did order (by far) the most expensive item on the menu! Two people can get two burgers, split an order of the (let me fifth the sentiment) excellent SPF, and split a milkshake for a total of $25. Not much more than, say, Burger Joint.
Or--going in a different direction that folks haven't mentioned--Taylors has a wide and reasonably priced selection of wine. A much more healthful (if less classic) pairing than a milkshake. (There's anecdotal evidence that red wine not only mitigates the harmful effects of saturated fat/cholesterol in general, but does so particularly when consumed at the same time! I cling to that anecdote!) In particular, given the Gott brothers' involvement in Taylors, you can usually get Joel Gott Zin by the glass at truly bargain prices ($6, if memory serves).
Best Californian cuisine?
I agree (as with Zenki's insightful comment above re an Italian orientation meshing better with the "Cal cuisine" ethos than a French orientation). There's an exchange on a recent "Italian restaurants" thread (http://www.chowhound.com/topics/390807) re just how much Italian, and just how much Californian, Delfina is. But I think any sensible person would agree that it's some degree of hybrid, and a very high degree of good.
Best Californian cuisine?
Universal indeed does a fan-frickin'-tastic brunch; I don't know whether OP will be here on the weekend, and, if so, whether s/he is a sensible person (i.e., brunchophile), but some excellent Cal-cuisine brunches include Zuni, Foreign Cinema, and Universal. As Homer Simpson would say, "mmmmm . . . brunch."
I note that folks haven't included Foreign Cinema in the above discussion; oversight or considered omission? Based on my 3 or so dinner visits, I would surely rank them with or ahead of Nopa, and in the same league, though probably not as good, as Zuni. And of course it's a great, unique space/experience.
Best Italian Resturants in SF
That seems sound, except that the two entrees that are on the menu every single night, out of a total of five, are roast chicken w/mashed potatoes & mushrooms, and steak w/frites--both pretty plain & simple (and the latter more French bistro than Californian). Stoll told the Chron some years ago how he didn't mean those two to be permanent, but had them on when they opened and would face an uproar if he ever removed them. I think that it's each night's two fish entrees that tend to the Californian. The final entree, usually pork or duck or rabbit or the like, is usually pretty Italian in style.
The Front Porch any recent visits?
If you haven't been wowed by a dessert, you mustn't've tried the yellow cake w/choc. icing. It's not sophisticated and probably, not, objectively speaking, truly fantastic, but it tastes *just* like my idealized memories of childhood birthday cakes. It will bring out and deeply please your inner 10-year-old. Plus there's whipped cream. (The same baker also makes for the FP a red velvet cake w/coconut icing--not the same nostalgia rush, unless your mom was more adventurous in her birthday baking than mine, but also very good.)
Best Italian Resturants in SF
While I think "pastas Italian, entrees Californian" is a fair summary of those parts of Delfina's menu, I'd add that the appetizers, salads, and sides are predominantly Italian, often to a pretty obscure/authentic degree, at least to my non-expert eye & palate. (Tonight's apps, for example, are grilled sardines w/warm white bean salad; speck w/shaved artichokes & parmigiano; chicken liver spiedini [skewers] w/guanciale & balsalmico; and salt cod montecato w/walnut oil & fennel seed flatbread.) The desserts are of mixed provenance; the wines an even split Cal/Ital; the excellent espresso drinks, very Italian.
Looking for Tamales and Tapas in SF
I've been meaning to try Roosevelt Tamale Parlor on 24th for a while; how does it stack up with the above?
Your favorite Bay Area bread
Funny you should ask, for shortly after posting the above, I did just that. (I work across the street.) I got their levain, for (I think) the first time. It was certainly competent and enjoyable. As for comparison to Tartine's country loaf (which is at least a pretty close cousin of levain), well, I'm on the fence as to whether Acme's is in the same league; I could certainly respect the idea that it is. But I have a hard time imagining someone truly thinking it *as good* as Tartine's (and here I reiterate *when fresh*; Tartine's bread is only transcendent the day it comes from the oven; by the next morning, it's comparable to what I just had @ Acme). Acme's crust had some crispy firmness without toughness, and its interior was somewhat moist and airy, but it was perceptibly weaker on all those counts than Tartine's (which I just had an hour ago to ensure a fair test), and the flavor was definitely less strong. If it's in the same league, then Tartine is, say, the Colts, and Acme is, say, the 49ers (or, for non-football fans, Tartine is, say, Yo-Yo Ma, and Acme is the second cellist at the SF Symphony).
I don't have a trained or terribly discerning palate, and so am usually deferential in my food views, but I feel strongly that the difference here is pretty stark. Does anyone who's had Tartine's bread the day it was baked think Acme's comes closer than "in the same league, but significantly less good"?
Dessert Only: SF Restaurants
I can't believe that no one's yet asked you what "chocolate blood gelato" was, RL.
Your favorite Bay Area bread
Um, are y'all talking about bread to store for a few days for making sandwiches, or straight-up comparing Acme's bread to Tartine's when fresh? I've probably never had Acme bread within a few hours of the oven (they're East Bay-based; me, very West Bay) but none of the Acme breads I've eaten here in SF has been in the same league with fresh Tartine bread. The head-to-head comparison at Delfina (where the bread plate is half Acme, half Tartine) is . . . well, it's no comparison. I may never have had Acme's levain, but I'd be shocked if the folks who make the bread I've had at Delfina make a different one that's in the same quality ballpark as Tartine's. I've assumed that Acme is a good regional-level mass producer of competent breads (they're in grocery stores, right?), while Tartine is a superlative baker of very small amounts of the very first quality of artisanal breads, and that comparing them would be like comparing, say, a good basic Ravenswood Zin with the finest small-lot, hand-crafted reserve Zin in greater Sonoma. By never having had an Acme levain fresh from the oven in Berkeley, have I fundamentally misunderstood what league they play in?
