Oliver Ranch's Profile
Do you eat, and enjoy, your steak rare?
@ipsedixit I lead a lot of steak tastings using beef from different farms. diets, breeds, etc. Some people don't like mouth feel that comes along with internal marbling and/or outside trim fat, typically but not always associated with grain-fed beef. They'll then try a grass-fed/finished steak at rare and like it quite a bit. Some also like chewier steaks than others. So it's probably not just generational, cultural, and regional, it depends on the beef itself - you might like beef from some farms at medium and other farms at rare.
As a rule, I personally prefer a rare steak and would choose raw over medium as I like the density of the texture vs. the fibrous texture of a more done steak. As for mouth feel, I prefer juicy to oily but overall I like them both. Super lean steaks can be juicier than super marbled steaks, which makes it tricky.
Metallic tasting steak
@Soop, a few other possibilities: 1) The steak was wet-aged (aged in vacuum-seal). Some people find this method of aging produces a sour, metallic flavor in steak; 2) Diet (what the cattle ate); 3) Soil (minerals where the cattle are raised/finished). It's probably a combination of all three. Do you have any idea what farm the beef came from?
Cooking a Grass-Fed Rib Steak
JCMBUTCHER, do you have a picture of the cap/deckle on and off?
Cooking a Grass-Fed Rib Steak
The rib-eye steak and rib steak come from the same rib primal (muscle group). A rib-eye steak can be bone-in or bone off. It can also be heavily trimmed or a part called the "deckle" or the "cap" can be left on; this cap has a different texture and often more fat.
Is it possible to share images here? My guess is that you have a bone-in, cap-on rib-eye steak. If it's just an 1" or 1.5" thick, you'd be best cooking it like a steak rather than slow roast or braising (in my personal opinion), but you may want to trim off the deckle and if you don't care to eat it, use it to make a gravy or something.
I'm inviting a butcher to respond in more detail. Hopefully she won't tell me I'm wrong, too ;)
Grass-Fed Steakhouse?
I agree with JBC, don't give up. Ask a lot of questions! The more of us who do, the more likely restaurants and grocers will have the answers - and offer better quality meat.
For grass-fed - ask first if it's grass-fed. Then ask if it's fed grass/forage for 100% of its lifetime. Then clarify, so it's fed a grass-only diet, never any grain? There is a lot of confusion (and frankly obfuscation) out there so sometimes people give you inaccurate information.
If you want pasture fed and finished, you need to ask a slightly different set of questions, including Were the cattle ever put in a feedlot environment and why? Sometimes cattle are temporarily housed in corrals because of significantly inclement weather or drought or because they'll destroy a wet pasture. A good rancher, butcher, or purveyor should be able to tell you this kind of detail.
I have a list of questions that I ask, let me know if you'd like a copy.
Grass Fed Beef
Sorry for very late response! I've found several grass-fed beef producers who turn out nicely marbled beef and with a good fat cover. I'm a bit of a fat hound myself so for a steak I like the sirloin and rib-eye. One good first step is to find a good butcher (someone who can look at a carcass and tell you what it is, where it was raised, how he/she would age it and why) and ask them to point you to the farms that produce grass fed cattle with a good fat cover.
If this wasn't your question please just let me know.
100% grass fed beef. Icky! Am I crazy?
MandalayVA, how lucky for you to have the ability to easily choose from three different farms! I have definitely tasted beef that had lamb flavor notes. There are some with game flavors e.g. venison, or offal. There's another group of flavors that I call Ocean Notes, ranging from ocean breeze to seaweed to mackerel. Few people want their beef to taste like mackerel, but some people like ocean or game/offal flavors and others do not.
Please tell me why/if large-scale industrially produced (feed lot) meat is better/as good as local pasture-raised.
Fascinating thread, I wish I'd seen it when it was active. @LauraGrace, this is a question I ask myself every day and not just with regard to meat consumption. It baffles me how little we consider the food we put in our mouths or the mouths of our children.
100% grass fed beef. Icky! Am I crazy?
I'm curious if you ever found a good source of grass-fed (no grain) beef. In line with what some have touched on already, the flavor & texture will vary by the same things that influence wine, including breed (and the specific genetics ala root stock), growing region, specific diet, age at slaughter, husbandry/handling on farm and truck and at slaughter and butchering, aging time and technique and the relative talents of folks who raise, transport, slaughter, or butcher it. The one critical difference between wine and beef is that with wine one seeks to stress the grapes whereas stress can ruin beef.
I have personally tasted and helped others taste a lot of different grass-finished and grain-finished beef (I host education and blind tastings across North America) over the past five years. One thing I can say for sure is that there is no "perfect" steak or burger! We have different palates and preferences for meat just as we do for wine, coffee, chocolate, potato chips, even apples. I'm guessing that you might have done this already but if not, if you have the opportunity, see if you can get samples (steaks or ground beef) from several farm/butcher teams and do a taste test. If you find one that you like, stock up on it so you have your favorite flavor of beef (or pork, lamb, poultry) on hand whenever you want it!
Buying a Quarter (or Side) of Grass Fed Beef (and other local meats)
Hi, Delairen. I might be able to help you especially with the quality question. Or more accurately, how to increase the chances you'll get a beef with a flavor & texture that appeals to you (it will vary by farm, breed, diet, aging time/technique, and talent). I'm not sure whether you can find my email through Chow - if not, you can find it on my site.
One simple word of advice - see if you can get a sample of a small steak and some burger (it's worth paying for it) before you buy the 1/4 or 1/2. While with grass-fed beef (or any pastured meat) flavor will vary throughout the year as the forage and age of the livestock changes, you should get some idea of whether you like the meat from that particular farm/breed etc.
grass-fed meats
It's been a while but I included Hardwick Beef (Devon breed) in the tasting I set up a few years back to create our steak tasting guide. No doubt it will vary in flavor / texture by season but it was simply delicious. The owner Ridge Shinn is well-regarded in the grass-finished beef industry; he focuses a lot on getting the genetics right. I see at least one Boston store listed. Maybe you can try it first and then order in bulk if you like it.
Grass Fed Beef
Here's a fun little secret. Beef is like wine, it varies by farm, growing region, breed, quality of genetics), specific diet, husbandry techniques, aging time & techniques... and the relative talent of the farmer, trucker, slaughterhouse, and butcher (not to mention the chef).
In other words, it's not as simple as grass-fed vs. grain-fed or Choice vs. Prime or any similar retail label. (It does matter across the board if the cattle were raised and handled in low stress conditions, which includes no added hormones or other growth stimulants, as stress can absolutely ruin the flavor and texture of beef.)
In four years of tasting beef for a living (I created a company to help people discover all this natural variety and connect more closely to the farm), I have tasted steaks and burgers from dozens even hundreds of farms including 100% grass fed beef from one farm in Idaho that tasted like a classic steak-house steak (we christened it "Gateway Beef" and another from the Puget Sound region (same crossbreed, BTW) that has a far more adventurous personality (I called this one Outdoor Adventure Beef). Grain-fed beef can also vary in texture, personality, impression, and specific flavor notes. The great this is, if you can tell what's on your plate and it is artisan quality beef, you can figure out which flavor profiles you prefer and then buy more of it.
Bottom line, if you can, try to do some blind taste tests with beef from different producers or producer groups. If you want my cheat sheet for identifying artisan quality beef, feel free to shoot me an email.
Best butcher & rancher in/near Tampa?
I'm putting together a tasting event in Tampa and am looking for a top quality butcher who offers (genuinely) natural or organic beef, ideally from specific farmers/ranchers. This butcher would offer wet-aged beef and dry-aged beef and be very picky and knowledgeable about his/her sources.
Also looking for cattle ranchers who either direct market their beef or sell it through farmers' markets, a CSA, or other retail operation. Not looking for commodity beef! At minimum, they need to raise their beef without the use of growth hormones, preventative antibiotics, or weird stuff (like chewing gum) in the feed.
Willing to drive up to 3 hours if needed.
Thanks for your help!
Recommendations for a Quality East Bay Meal
Agree with Robert on Wood Tavern and Oliveto. Wood Tavern is so good they even had me ordering a second plate of brussel sprouts. Though I wouldn't call the ambiance romantic, if that's what you're looking for.
Will have to now try Dopo myself.
Also, if you're on the west side of campus you want a quick, casual lunch, try Amanda's (Shattuck just off of University). Great effort in making quick service food that is made with real and wholesome ingredients.
Loblaw local food push - whaddya think?
grandgourmand, I agree overall with your sentiment. Unfortunately, based on my neighborhood markets (Loblaws, Sobeys, Dominion, Highland Farms, and one independent are within a 15-20 minute drive), my fear is that these efforts to promote "local" products are doing more harm than good. The "local" tomatoes we're seen are terrible - they are green to barely red, hard, and pithy. The peaches, hard as stones and flavorless. The apples, soft and mealy. For me the point of local isn't just because it's "green" (local isn't always the most sustainable option). The other bonus should be fresher, more tasty food, since it can be picked ripe or at least closer to it. Sadly, I have not seen this this summer at all.
Help! Marcella Hazen Recipe Left At Home
TopoTail, thank you so much! I agree about the sea salt, we do the same thing. And David, you too; I generally consider my Googling skills to be quite good, but I failed at this one. Yum. Now I have to figure out a wine pairing.
Help! Marcella Hazen Recipe Left At Home
I'm cooking dinner tonight for friends and left my Hazen recipe behind at home (2,500 miles away). It's for "Pasta with Smothered Onions" or something similar and it's from Classics of Italian Cooking. It's an unbelieveably good recipe - gently caramelized onions, some black pepper, reggiano, and parsley - but I can't remember what else or in what proportions. Assuming it's okay to post the recipe, can someone help?! Thank you thank you! Carrie
Jamie Oliver T-fal series
I could live with just three pans: 12" All Clad stainless sauce pan, JO T-Fal Hard Anodized no-stick, and my trusty no-name cast iron pan. If I had to choose just one, it would be the cast iron. But I was really impressed by the Oliver pan (no relation, sadly), which I received as a gift.
Steak - Not Cumbrae's, Healthy Butcher etc....
I'm ITB though right now the focus is in the US.
One challenge with beef is that it's hard to know what's actually on your plate, other than the grade or sometimes a general sense of origin e.g. Alberta. While marbling is important, flavor and texture can also vary considerably by breed, growing region, diet, age of cattle, the particular husbandry protocols of the rancher or lot operator, and the aging technique (if any) used by the butcher.
Another challenge is that your taste buds and priorities are unique – you may prefer one combination to another (as you might prefer some wines or apples over others) or really only care if the beef is from a local farm.
My recommendation is that you find a retailer that sources from a single ranch or group of ranches that work under the same protocols. Since you're okay with St. Lawrence Market, you might try Kerr Farms beef sold by Witteveen. I have not tried Kerr Farms beef but they seem to have a good program. They work with several ranchers who raise “exclusively Angus breed” (note: it’s very rare to find 100% Angus, but that’s a whole other discussion). They have good husbandry practices, e.g. no added hormones, antibiotics, animal by-products, and I believe their finishing diet is fairly specific and consistent.
Caveat given your comments about aging times: neither the Kerr nor Whiteveen sites say how long the meat is aged or how, which probably means it's been wet-aged a few weeks at most. But if you try it and like it, you’ll likely have a far more consistent experience than with other retailers (esp. grocers) who purchase from multiple sources or programs.
My preference? I absolutely prefer beef from producers who use low-stress management techniques and specialize in a specific breed and diet. Bonus points if they use a grass-only diet. My current favorite is 14-day dry-aged, grain finished Charolais from a fabulous ranch in Colorado, but it’s a pain to get over the border. I also know that I generally do not like wet-aged corn finished Certified Black Angus beef – the US or Canadian program - I find it bland.
If you want some other thoughts on how you might narrow the field, let me know. From your blog, you might have some ideas for me, too!
No Frills vs. Food Basics vs. Loblaws vs. Valu-Mart vs. Sobeys vs. Dominion vs. Other
Honestly, I find all of these stores be relatively marginal. We too prefer to shop at the store that provides the best quality and tasting meats and produce. We also have a strong bias toward organic or at least naturally raised foods and knowing what's on our plates. I know too much about the meat industry (I am in it) and simply won't eat the meat at our local Dominion, Highland Farms, No Frills, or Loblaws unless there is no alternative. The quality is highly variable, the selection is very limited, and they are completely unable to tell you the source. In addition, none of these stores has more than a paltry offering of organically raised fruits and veggies. As a result, but for dry goods and some real basics, even though they're further away we purchase most of our food from the local butcher and the small organic produce store that is fortunately in the same small plaza. As for pricing for dry goods and basics, the stores around us are pretty much the same.
Toronto CSA - Anyone know one?
Thank you all, this information is very helpful. I wrote Plan B an email based on JamieK's response but haven't heard back. Will try again. Unfortunately, we're on the eastern edge of Toronto and they don't deliver our way (and driving 40 minutes to pick it up sort of defeats the purpose.) But we'll see.
Toronto CSA - Anyone know one?
Looking for a CSA in the Toronto area that delivers vegetables and fruits (or one in which the customer picks up the order). Can anyone make a recommendation? Thank you!
Where to buy chipped beef
One of our customers has asked where he can buy chipped beef for his grandmother. Apparently, her favorite butcher/smoke house is no longer in business. We made dried beef cubes from the Sirloin Tip using the USDA process but labeled them as Pet Treats so we can't help. He's in the greater Los Angeles area but I'm sure any good referral within the US will be helpful. Thanks very much.
Where to have brunch in Roncesvalle Village?
Have only been there for dinner but River is a nice place. Socially minded restaurant, too, helping at-risk youth train to qualify for steady, better paying jobs.
Can you blast freeze chicken?
I know a lot more about beef than chicken so perhaps this question is naive. But can chicken or other poultry -- whether whole or cut into legs, breasts, etc. -- be effectively frozen without trading off the taste and texture of the meat? For instance, with blast freezing, the quality of steaks can be maintained, as long as the beef is then correctly thawed.
If so, wouldn't this give us access to pasture-raised poultry on a more year-round basis? Or make it easier for retailers to carry such a specialty product, since they presumably wouldn't need to sell as many birds per week to efficiently stock the shelves. (FYI, I'm writing from Toronto, where it's not possible to raise truly pastured poultry in the winter).
Thanks for your help.
