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Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Just to be clear: the one out-of-state license was accepted as proof of age in our party's experience.

about 12 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Your first sentence articulates very succinctly my puzzlement over this. Especially with the many different circumstances in which valid proof-of-age is provided, but this added level of inquiry is required for service.

Our state does have some restrictive laws on liquor (um, Sunday? No way!), but this just seems a little beyond what I would expect. Maybe it's a trend?

about 13 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Wow, I don't think that happens here - but I don't have much driving mishap experience.

I do know that I had a doctor's appointment on the day after my birthday in the expiry year of my driver's license. The receptionist asked for my license, then told me that it was invalid as of the day before. Things get in the way, sometimes, like illness one has waited many days to see a doctor about...stuff like that, that precludes license renewal. But really: a driver's license for the doctor? Stare down ensued.

(I won that one; I was just really sick and it was acceptable, I guess for Visual Assessment.)

about 17 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

I didn't either, interestingly.

Am still assuming "house rules" for the venue.

about 17 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

>>The wrinkle here may be that MN law requires drinkers to prove they have no restrictions placed on their "privilege" to buy alcohol. I get *why* that might be...<<
------------

Yeah, I get *why* that might be, too. (Although I do not know how the laws covering this are written.) Here's a question I posed to Ryuthrowsstuff downthread:

>>Bear with me while I try to articulate a situation for your thoughts as a professional bartender. Let's say someone sat down at your bar and ordered a drink. You ID'd, and a passport was provided and accepted by you as valid. What happens to you as the server if that patron who used a passport as ID was really a repeat DUI offender under a restricted license, and that patron then went out and was apprehended by law enforcement and found in violation of the no-alcohol stipulation of the license. Can that come back to bite you as the server, despite you having established proof of age with another acceptable-by-statute form of ID?<<

Is an establishment is to be held responsible for a patron circling around the alcohol restriction on their DL by using another form of valid ID? Are alcohol-serving venues "deputized" in some sort of way to enforce restrictions on those with repeat DUIs? (For what it's worth, my reading is that in MN, a restricted license means lifelong abstention from all alcohol and drugs, including ritual wine in religious services and alcohol in medications. I have no idea how that is enforced, but it's not my watch.) If, say, a server served one glass of beer to a restricted DL holder (unknown to server because restricted person would have ~known~ this) who had provided instead a passport or military ID as proof of age, and then that patron went out after one beer and and, I dunno, maybe rolled through a stop sign or something, was stopped, and had the alcohol of one beer in him/her, the patron/driver would clearly be in violation of their DL restriction. But is the establishment at fault? Service of one beer to a non-inebriated person who had valid proof of age? Can the server/bartender/owner be sued for something like that?

It seems like that is the over-cautious approach being pursued by the venue. I understand the tenuous nature of liquor licenses, but this particular layer seems like it is a little over and above. Unless, of course, the venue could be sued. (Nothing surprises me anymore.)

Thanks for your insights - I was hoping one of our CHs with legal experience would weigh in. I've really no dog in this (non) fight, but am rather interested in the new wrinkle.

about 18 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Been there with passport replacement misery while traveling. No. Fun.

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Yep, MikeG...I keep telling the kid to just get the state ID! He renewed his learners permits seemingly ad infinitum, but he's not even remotely interested in driving, so I think he just let that strategy go. The kid (heh..."kid" He's 27) travels a lot internationally, and gets so used to using his passport as a rule. The state ID is definitely a good idea for a non-driver.

Side bit of musing: I wonder why a printed address is so important for official ID.

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

My guess is at this place, you would not be served and they would have been confused by your ID. My 75 year old father-in-law lives out of state most of the year and has a driver's license issued by that state. The server examined his license for any DUI notes, but still asked if FIL had any alcohol restrictions on his card. Answer was no, and server accepted that.

When you say you are not required to carry your license at home, does that include when driving? Just curious.

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

DC licenses not being valid because DC is "not a state" seems pretty rotten to me. Do DC residents deal with this a lot?

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Really, because at no time was the server even remotely dickish about it. He was doing his job, and we were not affected in any way. In fact, he did do a decent job educating us on their protocol.

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Thanks for the professional insight Ryu. I am definitely seeing this as an erring-on-the-side-of-caution issue. And, it caused no real blip in our dining and offended no one - it was just really out of our knitting to hear of the need to check a DL for restrictions. I am unlearned about DL restrictions, as other than a couple of knuckle-dragging doofus high school guys from waaaay back, I literally know no one who has ever had a DUI and what goes with it.

Bear with me while I try to articulate a situation for your thoughts as a professional bartender. Let's say someone sat down at your bar and ordered a drink. You ID'd, and a passport was provided and accepted by you as valid. What happens to you as the server if that patron who used a passport as ID was really a repeat DUI offender under a restricted license, and that patron then went out and was apprehended by law enforcement and found in violation of the no-alcohol stipulation of the license. Can that come back to bite you as the server, despite you having established proof of age with another acceptable-by-statute form of ID?

about 19 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

I always thought a passport was sort of the bulletproof ID.

about 20 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

I can see how this would be a challenge for a foreign national.

about 20 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

My husband spent his college years in Wisconsin, and at least back then, it was not unusual to see establishments serving alcohol to parent-accompanied minors, legally. I have no idea if this is still the case in WI.

about 20 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

Yep: being carded was not an issue at all. I play by the rules, and the rules of proof of age don't bother me a bit.

about 20 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

I am unaware one way or the other on any restrictions on police officers having interest in an alcohol-serving business in MN - and had honestly never even thought about it. If I stay curious enough, I might check it out.

When server mentioned that his boss was a "police officer," I initially thought he was engaging in some sort of metaphor usage (my husband will occasionally call me "The General;" like that, y'know?), but further reflection made me wonder if he was serious.

about 20 hours ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Odd ID situation: when is "Valid" considered not valid enough?

We experienced a new-to-us situation having a family brunch at a neighborhood cafe this past weekend. Several of the adults in our party opted for a beer or a mimosa with their meal. The server asked us for our IDs. Nota bene: I have exactly zero problem with being ID'd for alcohol purchases. I understand that establishments have to have some sort of protocol to protect themselves, and it is no skin off my nose to pull out a card. FWIW, our cardees were 51, 51, 52 and 75, and we were a little amused.

Amusement became bemusement when the server told my BIL that his ID was not valid, and he could not be served. BIL had handed over his military ID - he's used to having this at hand, being active career miltary - and the server refused it. BIL was told the server need a driver's license. BIL is a curious sort and inquired why, as military ID is valid proof of age. We were told that the server needs a driver's license to be able to check if the license had any restriction noted on alcohol use (our state issues restricted licenses to repeat DUI offenders that prohibit any alcohol usage as a condition of licensure). BIL handed over his DL and all was well. We did inquire if they accept a passport as ID, and the answer was no, they would still need to check the driver's license for the alcohol restriction. My son does not have a driver's license, as his transportation is via bicycle. He uses his passport as his ID, and has mentioned to me more than a few times that he has had his passport refused as not a proper ID to be served (funny that it's good enough for the State Department and around the world, y'know?).

I was interested enough to check our state statutes for valid proof of age for alcohol sales, and the long and the short of it is that valid proof of age is one of the following:

(1) a valid driver's license or identification card issued by Minnesota, another state, or a province of Canada, and including the photograph and date of birth of the licensed person;
(2) a valid military identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense;
(3) a valid passport issued by the United States; or
(4) in the case of a foreign national, by a valid passport.

From what I can tell, the restaurant policy seems a little full of BS. Or is it? Since I know next to nothing about the trials and tribulations of selling alcohol to the public, is this a case where the house can set its own rules about what constitutes valid ID, being more restrictive than the state liquor laws require? Is a stricter ID protocol something that an owner can use to negotiate better insurance rates? Or does this dance along the edge of not really legal? Tidbit: our server informed us during the ID conversation that one of his bosses is a police officer and that this ID protocol is indeed the law. I haven't yet bothered to research any veracity to that, but it seems a little hinky and at odds with the statute at the least.

I really don't have too much opinion (yet) on this one way or the other, but I find it fascinating and something I have never run into before. I am wondering if any of you folks out there can weigh in on whether this is a common practice or whether it is even legal. Am so curious.

And: it has no bearing on whether or not I would return to the restaurant, by the way; my over-easy eggs were done like crispy hockey pucks.

1 day ago
cayjohan in Not About Food

Rustic garden party ideas needed

That's a great idea! The kids would be invested in the gathering that way as well. And with one-quarter of the attendees being youngsters, this might make for smoother sailing. No matter what we might like to think about our kids liking us, it is often that our little kids want to congregate with other little kids, and it's nice for the adults to know that their kids aren't going to be jaw-droppingly bored at such an event.

And hey, if there's an "older kid" that can do some face-painting or small-un' herding, so much the better., so the littles don't run amok in still producing garden plots.

Aug 28, 2015
cayjohan in Home Cooking
1

Phrases You Don't Hear Anymore

"Three sheets to the wind" always confused me when I was a child. We hung all our laundry on a clothesline, and I could visualize easily three sheets in the wind, but had no reference point to sailing ships, being landlocked. I thought, at that age, that it meant that tongues wagged like linens in the breeze when someone was inebriated. Though I learned the origin as an adult, I still visualize the idiom through laundry on a line.

"Out for a Sunday Drive" gets used here quite often. Our household keeps a tight radius in everyday life as happenstance, but weekends see us using the "Sunday Drive" as a pleasurable way to do some outlying errands.

Aug 28, 2015
cayjohan in Not About Food
1

Has Anyone Planted "Ketchup & Fries"?

Well, in late August I still haven't picked enough tomatoes off the Ketchup and Fries vine to even make a decent showing against what I can pick off the Sungolds in a day. I remain seriously impressed with the *flavor* of the tomatoes, but there are just so dang few of them. By contrast, every other tomato variety in our garden is attempting to drown us. So, for productivity, I give it low marks. Fwiw, this plant was grown in ground - I wonder if it is a better plant for container culture?

I am still resisting burrowing down to check on potato production (I don't want to interrupt the really slow trickle of ripe ketchup-y fruit they put out up top), but when I do, I'll report.

At this point, despite the stellar flavor of the cherry tomatoes, it is seeming to be in the category of "not worth it." Unless there are 20 pounds of potatoes underground, I think I have to say it won't get garden space next year. If I managed to snag another freebie, I would put it in a pot and try that approach.

Aug 28, 2015
cayjohan in Gardening

Rustic garden party ideas needed

Big +1 on making this a more organized potluck and having some sort of sign-up sheet. Our community garden's harvest dinners are run that way, with the suggestion that the dish one brings features something from your garden's produce. Most people bring their recipes as well, and sometimes leftover seeds for a little impromptu seed exchange.

OP, you've already got a keg of beer coming (and homemade: very cool for a party that is about growing and making), so I wouldn't bother with spending your budget on additional alcohol for a shortish afternoon party with kids. (Side note: our community garden owns our garden land, but if yours doesn't, you might want to check on serving alcohol. You never know if that would be a stumbling block.) Lemonade and water should be budget friendly, and do be sure to supply the dinnerware from your budget if you don't want to count on signups for that (it can get erratic and chaotic - what do you do when the "plate" person or the "napkin" person doesn't show, y'know? It happens.) I like hotoynoodle's suggestion of a ham or such if you go the Dish From The Garden route - it's a good anchor. And: complete ease of prep for the event hosts.

Ours is a large garden with ~100 plots, and such get-togethers can get waaaay more than we need with additional contributions (say, offers of tables and chairs and coolers and such), so don't hesitate to ask folks for any infrastructure they could lend you for the event. I am always of the opinion that gardeners tend to be pretty generous.

Sounds like a fun event - hopefully the first of an annual gathering!

Aug 28, 2015
cayjohan in Home Cooking

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

We've been a household of summer-cold-ridden people the past few days, and have favored a spicy parade of things (that we can at least taste, given effed-up cold-addled palates) from the garden and elsewhere: salsas, tamales (def. from elsewhere), refried beans, black bean soup, and all the other little condiments and salad-y things that go with the preceding in any way, shape or form (we like tidbits).

Given the leftovers of complimentary condiment-y things, and the need for lunch pack-able things for folks, I opted to use fresh corn and the (now prodigiously producing) green beans from the garden to make a Large Batch of fritter/pancake things, depending on how you judge size (fritters, small; pancakes, large). Great lunch for my people, and uses up the produce. Also, I am starting to really love chopped green beans in corn cakes; try it. All the aforementioned tidbits to go with.

Hub decided at the spur of the moment to go to his dad's to watch a ball game (we are cable-free here) and wanted me, as I was making the fritter/pancakes, to make up some additional (read: he wanted shrimp cocktail and then some entire after that)dinner to bring to his dad (let me say: i do not work kindly with late notice.) I waved my spatula at him, and told him he could buy the larger corn/bean pancakes off me for five bucks apiece, and that he could pick up a chicken at location x on his way. Shazam! It worked! I am thirty bucks richer (actually, thirty-five, since I sold him a nice leftover herbed crema sauce). My DD and I sat around eating corn-bean-fritter-pancakes and stuff and talked and laughed. Especially since we had the chili-honey that my husband want to take for the corn cakes, and it was Not For Sale. Delicious meal; we might be starting to Taste again.

And: 25 bucks richer.

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

Get finger cots. Really are good to have around for finger injuries.

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

Really? Press and Seal for first aid? This sounds brilliant. Am adding to the kitchen and site stashes.

Aug 23, 2015
cayjohan in Home Cooking

Best Tasting Beefsteak Tomatoes For a Home Garden??

Finally found our planting list this year, and can cite "Aunt Ruby's German Green" as a winner here. Large fruits, and a light, tart refreshing tomato flavor. Have been using these for fresh slicing and in salsa along with Green Zebra.

Aug 23, 2015
cayjohan in Gardening

Planning for next year...

We're nightshade-heavy in our garden, between tomatoes, potatoes and tomatillos, so I feel like it'd be like swapping like-for-like, y'know, in rotating. Pests have not been our problem with the nightshades (our main pests are woodchucks), but I wonder if the nightshades are heavier feeders needing some special amendment. Any amendments that you favor?

Not that I am complaining; we've taken 100 pounds of tomatoes from the garden so far this year, and it's s-t-i-l-l going mad. I just don't want to deplete the soil.

Aug 23, 2015
cayjohan in Gardening
1

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

>> I never grew out of the idea of thinking of the academic year as the real one. <<

Same here. January 1 is just another cold winter day, but the Start of School is when the wheel of the year really turns for us. We live on the lap of a large University, and our US Labor Day is *always* the point when I feel a new year coming on. (And that means supplies...)

I very much need some new fish ideas - I think my hub should like pesto on salmon. What was your strategy with it?

Aug 23, 2015
cayjohan in Home Cooking

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

Wait...just googled the currency conversion: yikes, what a deal! No way could I get my hands on a full leg of jamon for 45 USD! So jealous; and yes, you'd better get some of that!

What's for Dinner #383 - The Shank of the Summer Edition! [through August 28, 2015]

I am seriously kicking myself for not planting any plum tomatoes this year, as I do like the oven technique. We have been utterly seduced by the Big Tomatoes lately, and I have never tried to roast, say, a 20 oz German Johnson! Any luck with the oven technique with the beefsteak types?

Aug 23, 2015
cayjohan in Home Cooking

Amaize corn is here and it's GREAT,

Just had some last night, to very favorable review. The skins on the kernels are thin and tender, and the corn has a nice *snap* to it. Although I tend to be on the less-sweet end of corn preference, I would have to say this is the best fresh corn I have had in a very long time.

Aug 22, 2015
cayjohan in Minneapolis-St. Paul