What are the Best Craft Beer bars in the LA area

Moomin, you're obviously fairly new to craft beer (like, within the past 3-4 years, I'm guessing, if not more recent). sillygoosedown is exactly right that Westvleteren used to be imported on a fairly grand scale and sold through distributors. It was LEGALLY imported and LEGALLY distributed, and it was properly labeled and price-posted in any state that it was sold (well, I haven't checked the FTB records myself, but this is my understanding). At the time, the only "shady" thing about it was that the monks from Westvleteren did not condone the practice. But ambitious (or "unscrupulous," depending on your perspective) buyers took advantage of the fact that there were very high (and in some cases, NO) purchase limits on bottles procured at the monastery/brewery, and literally purchased truckloads with the help of their "friends." Then they were imported to the US legally, etc. They were sold at many good liquor stores up until about 2004-2005, usually for about $7-10 per 330 mL bottle.

In 2004-2005, if memory serves, Westvleteren started getting more and more scarce in the US, and I'd imagine it was mostly just due to supply and demand issues. But I think it was in about 2005 or 2006 that RateBeer.com released its annual Press Release of "Best Beers in the World" (which had been done several times before, by the way), and Westvleteren 12 was declared the #1 Best Beer in the World. It had actually been rated for several years as the #1 beer by both RateBeer and BeerAdvocate, the two major online beer enthusiast websites, but for some reason that *particular* Press Release sparked a wave of additional hype, buzz, and interest, and there was somewhat of a tipping point for the monks at Westvleteren.

With all of the added attention, which they did not ask for and did not want at all, they imposed much stricter rules for purchasing their beers (you had to call in advance to set an appointment on a specific date, provide your license plate number, and offer your name-- which would be held to assure you were not calling more than they would want and buying again and again and again). And I think they placed the limit at ONE case per person, when it had previously been more like 5 or 10 cases per car. So this tightening of the reins effectively wiped out widespread distribution of their beers to the United States, and nowadays the only feasible means to purchase or acquire any "Westy" (apart, of course, from going to the brewery yourself) are to get it in much smaller quantities-- from a few online vendors, an internet auction, a "trade" with an international beer enthusiast, or as a "gift" like you've described that some distributors have done (or received).

It's a much more rigidly controlled aftermarket/gray market/resale landscape nowadays than the way it used to be a mere 5+ years ago, and I'm sure the brothers at Westvleteren are very happy for that. But this does not at ALL mean that anybody who "would ever sell the stuff" was a "congenital idiot." Moreso that you and your "beer guy" friend at Whole Foods in Venice are just not very well informed about the history of US retail availability for this beer.

Here's a very informative piece from Celebrator magazine that was written in 2004/2005-- so, BEFORE the severe limitations were put into place. It contains a great deal of history and information about the brewery and their beers, and it addresses very thoroughly the "problems" of reselling and unauthorized importation into the United States, and how the monks feel about all of it.

http://www.celebrator.com/archives/0504/0504inter-westvleteren.html

Unfortunately, a cursory google search cannot find a good article from around 2006 (or shortly thereafter) that addresses the changes at Westlveteren, or the added interest from the "RateBeer Best" list. But as someone who has been very immersed in the craft beer industry and has followed these beers very avidly and very closely for the past 10 years, I assure you that these drastic changes took place. You see how difficult it is to get Westvleteren now. But it wasn't always that way. . .

cquiroga in Los Angeles Area

Anybody been to Boho on Sunset?

Maybe I should go out to eat with your crowd some time. It's entirely possible that I experienced an off night (of service and food-- must've been a *really* off night!), or just that we have different preferences of these things. It's all good, either way. I'll definitely be back to BoHo (and soon, I hope), but it didn't come close to impressing me as I would have hoped.

cquiroga in Los Angeles Area

Anybody been to Boho on Sunset?

Coming from the perspective of an obsessive beer lover. . .

Pretty nice place. Arrived about 5:45 in hopes of grabbing dinner and a beer on my way to a party at Blue Palms; the sign on the door said they were closed, even with posted hours from 5 to 12. Not good. An hour later after a trip to Amoeba Music (right next door you have the best record store in the world-- that has to count for something, right?), I walked past BoHo and the sign said they were open. Crisis averted.

They seem to have carefully designed the captivating space, with a warm, log cabin- or loft-like environment, replete with couches surrounding a fireplace, lots of rugged brown leather and distressed wood tabletops, and various odds and ends of wood furniture and kitschy, antiquated wall ornaments. It's nice, but it feels (and no doubt, being Hollywood, it *is*) a little bit phony.

The bar has about 25 or 30 taps at inflated prices (12 oz. of Avery Maharaja IPA or Green Flash Le Freak for $7) and a short-but-decent, if somewhat oddly selected, assortment of maybe a dozen different bottles at a little bit *less* inflated prices (Cantillon Lou Pepe Kriek for $30-ish, Ommegang Biere de Mars for about $22-ish). I was disappointed that the bottle list was so limited and the draft list was not up-to-date (Maharaja was not listed on the Current List OR the "Upcoming Drafts" section of the menu, but it WAS on tap), and it was all a little more expensive than I'd like to pay. On top of that, the beer is served way too cold to my tastes, probably around 35 degrees out of the tap, even though the cold box is snugly nestled right behind the tap handles, with maybe a five-foot draw for the longest line. Still, there's no doubt they have a decent selection of craft beers, and the food menu looks solid as well, if my first experience was a bit underwhelming compared to my expectations.

I know Chef Andre Guerrero's food from the outstanding fast food at Oinkster, and I figured BoHo would have all of that AND THEN SOME (not literally-- I didn't expect milkshakes and cupcakes). Unfortunately, the food is fairly uneven, and at this point I would have to chalk it up mostly to the preparation. The French Onion soup I had was really quite tasty, made with oxtail broth and sherry, but it was served *ridiculously* hot, so much so that I couldn't eat it for literally at least 10 minutes. Not a huge letdown, but a small quibble. Then the baked fennel was likewise quite tasty, but a little bit too soft, and with a little too much cream. Finally, I have to disagree with others here on the burger-- I thought it was solid but unspectacular, and not even as good as the burgers at Oinkster. Unremarkable for a $14 burger. And perhaps the most disappointing item of all was the Belgian fries side that came with the burger-- another delicious staple from Oinkster, the fries I had last night at BoHo were woefully soft and a bit soggy, seemingly undercooked in the two-step frying process that they use both here and at Oinkster. They're MUCH better at Oinkster, even though they're supposed to be exactly the same.

Service was friendly but fairly unattentive, perhaps owing to the fact that I was seated at the bar and dining solo. But the staff did not seem very knowledgeable about the beer either, as I overheard bartenders having trouble remembering the names of specific beers they were serving. Most of all, my biggest gripe about this place-- it simply lacks SOUL. There was no driving voice or passionate figure behind any of what I experienced, however obvious it is that a lot of thought and effort went into opening the place. I had no idea who was in charge there, and nobody really seemed to care whether or not I was enjoying myself, or even that I was there at all. The staff seemed mostly proper and professional (and there's quite a wealth of eye candy, both on staff and in the clientele), but the heart and warmth of the space-- which suffered greatly from a hollowed core-- seemed to carry over in human form with the service; they smile when they greet you, and then seem to forget that you’re there. This is not a place I could ever see myself visiting again on my own.

Now, if I want to meet up with a good crowd of friends, or go out on the town for a decent meal with some good beers and an opportunity for some people-watching, I'd go to BoHo occasionally (and Father's Office, although I'd have to think a bit and return to BoHo before deciding which place I like more-- right now I'd say Father's Office). But when I'm in Hollywood and want to get some outstanding beer and see who I might run across at a bar full of like-minded beer lovers, I'll stick to Blue Palms (which has decent food as well, by the way-- although I think BoHo's is certainly a little more ambitious and interesting).

cquiroga in Los Angeles Area

Bringing Beer to a high end byob?

Sounds like they saw the bottles and somehow assumed they were gifts for the kitchen, and Stucco was too polite to object. So it became an "accidental gift."

I'm quite sure they would've treated him very kindly, in turn.

cquiroga in Beer

Aging lambics

Yup. Fruit lambics, geuze, and even some flemish sour ales and other experiments/tributes of that ilk (e.g. the Russian River, Pizza Port/Lost Abbey, and Captain Lawrence sour beers that have come out in the past couple of years, to name a few) have been known to age tremendously well, despite their relatively low alcohol content. A Pizza Port Le Woody Brune that I had a few weeks ago, at nearly three years old, was the best incarnation of that beer I've ever had. Wonderfully fruity, balanced, and nuanced with oak, cherry, and light acetic acid. And it poured with great clarity (when other bottles and draft servings have had quite a lot of cherry puree "pulp" floating about), from the same settling that you described with your 1996 Cantillon Kriek. By the way, I've had '96 Cantillon Kriek many times as well (which is funny, because I've never had any vintage '97-'01 Cantillon Krieks-- I guess they intentionally held some back from that year only, or they haven't released the other ones, or there was some "hidden" reserve that someone stumbled upon), and that beer is indeed incredible.

cquiroga in Beer

Beer and Cheese

If you can find a nice, funky Belgian geuze or something similar (like Drie Fonteinen Oude Geuze, Cantillon Organic Geuze Bio, or Petrus Aged Pale), it works magically with the delicate goaty splendor of Humboldt Fog-- an absolute classic cheese. I haven't found a better cheese/beer pairing than the Humboldt Fog I matched with Drie Fonteinen J & J Oude Geuze Blauw (which is an extremely rare beer you're not going to find commercially in the US, but another authentic geuze would serve as a suitable stand-in). If you try one and it doesn't quite work, don't be afraid to try another geuze. In my experience, the cheese works well with the musty and "cloudy" characteristics in some geuzes, but they're not all like that. And there's quite a bit of bottle-to-bottle or batch-to-batch variation in geuze anyway, due to its wild and unhinged nature and the practices of vintage blending and bottle conditioning. I've had geuze that I thought was too lemony or just too stingingly acidic to reach a balance with the cheese, but when you get the right bottle and you catch the cheese at the right time, it's absolutely wonderful.

cquiroga in Beer

Fruity beers

A post in another thread reminded me of this sad oversight-- Russian River Supplication is a beautifully fruity (or fruit-kissed) beer, a Belgian brown ale aged in Pinot Noir barrels with sour cherries and wild yeast for a funky tartness. A wine-like beer with soft and light carbonation and lovely soft flavors, its fruitiness is very subtle and nuanced. One of my favorite beers ever.

cquiroga in Beer

the best beer I've ever had

Russian River brewpub is a fantastic place, a cozy little bar with decent food and fabulous beers-- some would say Vinnie is making the best hoppy beers and Belgian-inspired beers (if not the best beers, period) anywhere in America.

I'm a big fan of his Bling Pig IPA, extremely complex and flavorful for its gravity. Lots of people love Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger (the Double IPA and "Triple IPA," respectively), but I'll take Bling Pig any day.

I'd say, however, that the best stuff Vinnie is putting out is his "-tion" line of Belgian-inspired beers. Temptation is a chardonnay-barrel-aged Belgian golden ale with wild yeasts that add a crisply refreshing tartness. Beatification is a geuze-like Belgian blonde ale aged for 2 years in sour, old, yeasty barrels that formerly housed New Belgium La Folie (a fabulous beer in its own right). And if you're lucky enough to track down Supplication (my favorite), that's a Pinot Noir-barrel-aged Belgian brown ale aged with brettanomyces (one of the aforementioned wild yeasts) and sour cherries added. Simply FABULOUS. One of my favorite beers, ever.

At the brewpub, they're likely to have at least 5-8 of the Belgian "-tion" beers, like Deification (an Orval clone-- a trappist pale ale with a softly funky, almost bandage-y brettanomyces touch), and perhaps Depuration (a beer similar to Temptation but much more tart, and with muscat grapes added to the barrel). All of these beers are sublimely drinkable, balanced, and delicately flavored while extraordinarily interesting and complex.

I can't wait to go back for my next visit.

Oh, and if you're looking for other breweries in SoCal to visit, you MUST check out Port Brewing in San Marcos, CA, in the home of the old Stone brewery (or any of the three Pizza Port brewpubs in Carlsbad, Solana Beach, San Clemente). Those guys are brewing fabulous beers all the time, and they just opened a new production brewery a few months ago so that their beers can see wider (hopefully MUCH wider) circulation in the near future. Try The Lost Abbey Lost & Found Ale, a sort of Abbey brown/dubbel made in their new Belgian brand, "The Lost Abbey."

cquiroga in Beer