grubber4's Profile
Bar/Club to host an event near Moscone Convention Center?
Bong Su at 3rd and Folsom is one block away and perfect for an event. I went there during a conference last fall and it went very well.
Boston Hound seeking advice for trip to San Francisco [moved from Boston board]
Viet food is far superior in the Bay Area (let's remember that Westminster in Orange County and San Jose have the largest populations outside of Vietnam). Boston has some okay Pho joints, including a local chain Pho Pasteur. But, nowhere, including NYC as well as Boston, are there places like Bong Su and Slanted Door. Pho and rice plates aren't not the sum total of Vietnamese food. I highly recommend a visit to one of those two to try something that you can't get in Boston (and I will add a 5th or 6th concurrence on taquieria food).
La Mar Cebicheria Peruana -- coming to the Embarcadero?
I will definitely go back as I stated. As for service being a little rough, I do discount it for the 1st week that's why I am going back. The Chronicle had this to say just yesterday: "Acurio has been credited with elevating Peruvian food to white-tablecloth status." I just thought it was ironic that they used paper place mats. It was loud. I look forward to eating my way around the menu despite these shortcomings. Which is a lot more than i can say about many other restaurants in this city.
La Mar Cebicheria Peruana -- coming to the Embarcadero?
what, precisely, do you disagree with then? You haven't been to Limon in years, I said the Lomo Saltado was not stunning but not bad, I didn't have the mussels and you couldn't remmeber what ceviche you ate. And, you totally agree that it was noisy.
La Mar Cebicheria Peruana -- coming to the Embarcadero?
Stopped in last night. Very big space. Dining Room, Ceviche Bar in a separate room and a cocktail lounge in the front. Ordered three dishes including the ceviche sampler (two asian inspired ceviches, one mixto and one classico). The asian inspired had rice wine and/or soy in the presentation and were my least favorite, but the classico and mixto were good. One had a creamy aji amarillo the other just traditional marinade. Mixto had squid, classico just halibut. All in all, not a bad ceviche. Smaller portion size but this was due to the sampler order. I can tell you right now, however, that when Limon is on its best game the rocoto and aji amarillo ceviches there are better. The other dish I orderd was Lomo Saltado, which was beef tenderloin, onion and french fries. Not bad, not stunning and was $23 dollars I believe. The room was loud and the service very uneven. Hard tables, paper place mats and high ceilings. Certainly not peruvian food on "white table clothes" as portrayed. The menu is very extensive with a grilled octupus skewer and many, many other items that I will go back and try. In sum, good food, typical lackluster service and loud space (pretty much like every new restaurant that opens in this City).
Mo Slanted Door
I am not sure if that's true at all, refugees were both Viet and Chinese-Viet. For some reason, many of the ethnic Chinese-Vietnamese came to San Francisco from Saigon's (HCMC) massive Chinese neighborhood called Cholon. Most who resided there are bilingual in that they speak both Vietnamese and Chinese dialects. In contrast, San Jose, Orange County and other places have a plethora of ethnic Vietnamese refugees (i.e non-ethnic Chinese). . There is some relevance to the distinction. Just like Vietnam's regional difference in food (Hue style v. Dalat highland etc.), ethnic Chinese styles can (certainly not always) impact the flavors in a Vietnamese restaurant. Try Quan Hy in Westminster (Orange County) or Vung Tau in San Jose and you will shocked by the number of Vietnamese dishes that you never see offered on menus in San Francisco. And in those two restaurants you would never see Cantonese style Beef Chow Fun that you will sometimes find in San Francisco Vietnamese restaurants.
$13 for a burger?
Had an awesome $13 burger at the new Flytrap Restaurant with Hoss Zare at the helm. It was a ground lamb burger and came with french fries.
Current favorites at Nha Toi and Vung Tau?
Try the soups at Vung Tau (it's not a pho cafe so that isn't an option) like Bun Rieu and others. The main dishes are excellent as well. Forget the concerns about sugar, just don't order those traditional dishes that have a lot of sugar (i.e. anything that calls for a carmalized sauce.)
Recommendations around the "W"
Just was in Bong Su last night (one block south of the W on 3rd at Folsom). They have a happy hour from 5 to 7 where appetizers are half off, a great selection wines by the glass and custom cocktails. Nice, sleek bar with a great wine room. I would hit that up for cocktails or for dinner.
The W hotel itself has a couple of nice bars as well. The upstairs XYZ bar is my favorite.
ISO Russian River Family Eats Recs
I agree with the Union Hotel in Occidental (15 minutes from Forestville if you go via the town of Graton) for family style Italian. Very basic pastas and meats with good minestrone soup (and very affordable versus S.F. prices) Perfect for the whole family. I recently had an incredible meal at Mosaic in Forestville (right on Hwy 116 or "Main Street"). Perfect for the grownups. Coffee rubbed filet was great and the special mushroom appetizer with Brie are not to be missed. Sit outside if it's warm enough.
Chowdown report on Joey & Eddie's (North Beach), SF
This isn't really shocking to me. Joseph Manzare hasn't put together a restaurant that is worthy of its hype or note since the early days of the Globe. He continues to spread himself thin with weak efforts at Zuppa, Tres Agaves, Pescheria (closed) and now Joey & Eddies. It's like an ongoing case of Chef A-D-D.
Best Vietnamese in Little Saigon (SF)
Oh, i definitely wouldn't disparage at all. I totally agree with your post. It's just that Cholon style Vietnamese food is different from other regional foods of Vietnam. It relies on different flavors, spices and sauces. At the risk of generalizing, that type of food is different (not better or worse). Different noodle types, soy sauce based flavors are all part of the wonderful pallette of Vietnamese food. That's why I brought it up, if that's a person's only exposure to Vietnamese food, they will be shocked when they try other regional or ethnic Vietnamese food.
Please critique my San Francisco weekend itinerary
I think your itinerary looks great and diverse. Go to the Slanted Door. Don't be persuaded to go to San Francisco's Little Saigon. The restaurants there are ethnic Chinese owned Vietnamese cafes that are very similar to what you will find in Boston's Chinatown or New York's Chinatown. The SD (as well as at least two other contemporary Vietnamese restaurants in this City) are preparing food very similarly to what you will find the exploding middle class in Saigon eating. Updated classics and new dishes with traditional ingredients are their speciality. Often posters on this board will direct visitors to the Tenderloin's Vietnamese cafes as a substitute or because they are cheaper. Those that do that are doing a disservice in that Viet cafe food is ubiqutous in almost any big metropolitan community in the U.S. San Francisco's version is not unique and even far inferior to what you will find in San Jose. What you can't get anywhere else in this Country is wonderful contemporary Vietnamese food represented by Slanted Door, Bong Su and Ana Mandara. (New York's weak Bao 111 is not even in the same league). If you were in Saigon recently then you will know what I am speaking about.
Best dishes at Slanted Door
Not all that surprising since Charles Phan is ethnic Chinese.
Harris' Steak
actually really enoyed Lark Creek's Rib eye. I forgot that on my list. The meat is sourced and well cooked. I know there has been a change in chefs recently and haven't been back since just before Christmas. The major detraction there in my view is that it's in a shopping center, albeit a nice shopping center.
Harris' Steak
Should have clarified, I meant a shortage of good steakhouses. Acme while pretty good is completely dead during 6 months of the year, Morton's, Bob's and Ruth Chris are all chains. Alfred's is very mediocre. El Raigon has great grass fed hanger steak but isn't a classic steak house. Joe DiMaggio's is a quasi-chain that is kitschy. Izzy's and Bobo's are two I have never tried. So yes, I believe we have a shortage of quality steak houses.
Upscale casual near the Hotel Vitale
Hit up Ozumo just down for a drink at the cool bar which will be lively and then head over to either Town Hall or Salt House for dinner. Casual, southern bistro food (not a brew pub, but I didn't think you really wanted a brew pub) in lively atmosphere.
Harris' Steak
On a lark I hit up Harris' on Van Ness last night. I was able to secure a table for two at 9 pm by just walking in. Harris' has always been my go to steak restaurant in a City with a serious shortage of steak places.
This night Harris' really delivered. Even better than usual. The rib-eye and the New York strip were awesome. The service was impeccable. The New York had been over cooked and the waiter with no fuss simply returned it to the kitchen to replace it with another. The iceberg wedge with the homemade ranch dressing was very good and it included a few cherry tomatoes (that were nice and sweet, though not local for all you local food obsessed).
All in all it confirmed in my mind that Harris' is the best steak destination in the City.
Serpentine?
Carbon footprint? Ha ha, that's a good one. I am sure the 'local' lettuce they served with the burger (with nothing really else) was hand delivered by a farmer and a mule from the local farms and had a zero carbon footprint, not. Come on, the bottom line is when we get to point where it's not politically correct to serve a "hot house" or "vine ripened tomato" (neither local nor admittedly as good as grandma's homegrown in Brentwood--but not bad) with a burger, then we have all lost it. Furthermore it's really silly to calcuate carbon footprints for a tomato, meanwhile the Port of Oakland accept 10 million tons of goods annually from carbon spewing India and China.
Serpentine?
Had a very average meal there last week. Went on a Thursday at about 9 pm and it was suprisingly crowded. The space is authentic wherehouse with a really nice atmosphere. Bar was crowded with diners. We ordered the fried oysters and hush puppies for appetizer. It was basically all that you would expect with fried oysters--doughy and deep fried. I had the half roasted chicken and it was very mediocre. Kind of a slimy skin (not truly crispy or roasted), though it was definitiely brined. My dining partner had a the Burger which was designated with a ranch raised beef (who knows these days if that means free range or grain fed but w/o hormones). Burger pattie was very small and with very average taste. The burger was not garnished with a tomato. The "local" slow movement has hit a level of absurdity when you can't get a burger with a non-local tomato because of an obsession with a food ideology. Imported tomatoes, while certianly not as good as out of the garden August tomatoes locally, work just fine. We made do with a leaf of lettuce and some ketchup.
All and all, I would go back only because the bar scene seems nice, the atmosphere was a genuine old building (unlike the faux and recreated feel at many restaurants) and the service friendly. I would have to adventure around the menu a little bit before I give it a full thumbs up.
Extremely Disappointing Service at Bodega Bistro
it was beef tournedos (also filet) not shaking beef. And I could have sworn it was a boneless breast of chicken pounded flat like a cordon bleu. It was about 6 months ago. I found the whole thing a little odd.
Extremely Disappointing Service at Bodega Bistro
The fact that they have wine puts them in a class by themselves. So there really isn't much competition on Larkin Street.
Extremely Disappointing Service at Bodega Bistro
I am well aware of the french influence in Vietnamese food. Having travelled in Vietnam over 10 times I can tell you that the influence is typically much more subtle. Sure bahn mi and cafe culture in Vietnam is certianly prevalent. However, chicken cordon bleu and a bad filet on a menu in a cafe on Larkin Street is bizarre.
Extremely Disappointing Service at Bodega Bistro
Standing up an paying at the front counter is very very common in Vietnamese cafe style restaurants.
As for the sloppy service, it goes back to the frequent debate on this board where people attempt to compare Bodega Bistro and Tu Lan to Slanted Door and Bong Su (usually a negative comparison where the poster states--erroneously in my opinion--that the food is"just as good at Bodega or Tu Lan" or complains that the "price is too high at Slanted Door or Bong Su). You get what you pay for. My experiences at Bodega Bistro is what i typically expect from a small Vietnamese Cafe/Restaurant. Spotty service, basic cafe food (though Bodega has some bizarre eclectic additions of French food on the Dinner menu) very limited wine list and no bar.
Visiting SF ~ Slanted Door?
That is absolutely correct. San Jose is the exception. In San Francisco that is absolutely the case. Saigon has a very big Chinatown (Cholon) where Chinese style food is cooked and Chinese is spoken. Many if not most of San Francisco's Vietnamese restaurants are owned by former residents of Cholon (including Charles Phan at Slanted Door and Mr. Kwok at Bodega Bistro), and it definitely impacts their cooking. I have eaten pho with friends in San Jose who were shocked by the dark nature of the broth with heavy star anise. This is because most people locally haven't eaten true Pho.
Visiting SF ~ Slanted Door?
These comments are too funny. Would the same comments be made about other cuisines? I mean is $18 for a small plate of pasta at A16 or SPQR "that much" better than Pasta Pomodoro's $12 version? Or is a crepe at Ti Couz that much better than Crepe House? As I stated earlier, if your whole knowledge of Vietnamese food is pho, bun or bahn mi than you won't even recognize what you are being served at the SD or any other higher end Vietnamese restaurant. I challenge any of you to find a brick oven roasted whole fish like the one served at SD at any of the Tenderloin restaurants or Tu Lan. They don't serve it.
As a frequent traveler to Vietnam, I can tell you that both Saigon (and Hanoi to a lesser extent) have similar restaurants with much broader menus than traditional cafe food. The food is adventurous, creative and more expensive than cafe or street food. And, guess what? They are filled with local middle class families. Furthermore, what many of you think is Vietnamese food here (based upon trips to Tu Lan and other cafes) doesn't even exist in Vietnam because no real cafe there would serve both good pho and a multitude of other dishes. Most cafes specialize in one or two dishes.
Finally, while I find SD to be good food, it is not SD that I am defending in particular. I am challenging the whole argument here (a pervasive one on this board) that contemporary Vietnamese food should be directly compared to its street and cafe food cousin, when in fact it should stand on its own.
Visiting SF ~ Slanted Door?
Talk about comparing apples and oranges? Thai food at Koh Samui v. Viet food at the SD? Huh?
Visiting SF ~ Slanted Door?
You two are completely out of touch. First of all, if Golden Flower is your idea of pho then you need a little lesson. Golden Flower, like most of San Fran's viet restaurants, is ethnic chinese. Therefore, you haven't even tasted true viet pho. Secondly, "peasant fare" and "humble beginnings" as descriptions clearly reflect an incredible dirth of knowledge about history, cultural. Vietnamese food is of course heavily influenced by French cooking techniques since they were colonists for over 100 years. Go to Saigon right now and you will find restaurants that rival or even surpass the SD in elegance and price. Better yet, don't go there, keep eating bad pho and "street" food and continue to believe you have really experienced viet food--just don't pretend you know what you are talking about.
