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Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

Awww, now you're going to make me blush . . . . ;^)

Thank you, Dave, for your very generous and kind words. I treasure the thought, and wish you -- and everyone here -- a very Happy Thanksgiving!

about 20 hours ago
zin1953 in Wine

Gumphof for Thanksgiving meal?

IF . . . IF we are talking about the same thing, Gumphof is a WINERY, not a wine. See http://www.gumphof.it/e_gumphof.html

about 21 hours ago
zin1953 in Wine

Czech president: US beer is ‘filthy water’

I'd presume he's far more likely to taste brands like Bud, Bud Light, Michelob, Coors, etc. than he'd be to try Pliny the Elder or Boont Amber, etc., etc.

1 day ago
zin1953 in Beer

Czech president: US beer is ‘filthy water’

true, but then again, he also says from very wise and true things . . . even if saying them aloud may be stupid.

1 day ago
zin1953 in Beer

Czech president: US beer is ‘filthy water’

Well, generally speaking . . .

1 day ago
zin1953 in Beer

Budweiser loses out to craft beer in US

The King of Beers has been dethroned???

1 day ago
zin1953 in Beer

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove -- unless you inadvertently replied directly to me when you meant to reply directly to the OP . . .

After all, since when ISN'T it a "palate issue," as you phrase it. You've been here long enough to have seen me say -- repeatedly -- things like "no one size fits all" (meaning there is no *one* "right" wine to go with ________) and that it's all about "personal palate preference(s)."

I've been in and around the California wine trade since the 1960s, and the one and only rule that has *ever* existed when it comes to food-and-wine pairings is "Drink what you want, with what you want."

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

One of my earliest lessons in the trade (and I've told this story before on this site, too) was when I was still a teenager (probably back in 1967 or 1968), and my uncle -- who opened a wine store in the 1940s, when everyone else had liquor stores -- was helping customers select their wines. One person, a regular customer, told him they were having steak and needed a wine for dinner. IIRC, he sold him a bottle of BV Private Reserve Cabernet. The next person, a new customer was patiently waiting nearby. He, too, was having steak and, after some discussion, my uncle suggested a Châteauneuf-du-Pape. (Note: prices were roughly the same; both were a little under $10 at the time.) The man was indignant! He demanded to know why my uncle was recommending a CdP to him, whereas he had recommended a Cabernet to the other guy, then stormed out of the store and never (TTBOMK) returned.

My uncle shrugged his shoulders and started helping someone else . . .

Later I asked him about what had happened. He smiled and told me that, one day, wine stores would be the size of supermarkets, but instead of the aisles being marked (e.g.) "4A -- Breads, Cereals; 4B -- Crackers, Cookies, Snacks, you'd have one aisle marked "Beef," another marked "Chicken" or "Lamb" and so on. And on that aisle would be every wine you could serve with beef. You'd have Château Rib-Eye, Domaine Filet Mignon, Short Rib Vineyards and so on . . . and that way everyone could know they were getting the EXACT wine to go with their meals.

And after rolling his eyes a bit, he taught me how to help customers who wanted a recommendation for dinner -- ask not only what they're serving, but find out what kind of wines they like and don't like; get an idea of *their* personal palate preference and ignore your own; find out how much they are comfortable spending and stay within their budget . . . unless there is something amazing that is just a bit more (no more than 10% over); take the time to listen to their wants and needs, answer all of their questions, and explain with this wine would work while that one might not. Take your time, and after they make a selection, ask them to come back and tell you what they thought of the wine . . . after all, the better you get to know *their* palate, the better and better your recommendations will be . . . .

That advice hasn't failed me in the 40+ years I was in the trade.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Heck, if the OP likes to drink Malbec or Merlot, Touriga Nacional or Tannat, Godello or Grüner Veltliner with prime rib, who is anyone to say she's *wrong*??? No one. She likes it; that's fine!

But when asking for advice/suggestions, and particularly in *this* sort of environment (where I can't ask what she likes/doesn't like, what wines she's had before, etc., etc.), I fall back on my years of experience and offer ideas for wines that have worked well -- both for me personally, that's true, but also for my customers repeatedly over the years -- and offer some ideas.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Karen is a friend of mine, and I have a great deal of respect for her, both personally and professionally. And we agree on a great many things, including "the truth is there are no rigid rules." (Indeed, I have never said there were.) We also disagree on a great many things, and that's what has made for many of the great discussions we've had over dinner across the years . . . .

;^)

1 day ago
zin1953 in Wine

Sparkling Red Wine

Blanc/blancs = white/whites

Noir/noirs = black/blacks

Blanc de Noirs = white from blacks

And while it *is* true that one of the synonyms for "dark" in French is "noir," in terms of color the choice is typically "foncée" (as in "couleur foncée") . . . "noir" for dark is more associated with a mood, as in being in a dark (or black) mood.

(Or, at least, that's what I was taught in school.)

2 days ago
zin1953 in Wine
1

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

Seriously? I believe you, but i can honestly say that has also;cutely, positively never happened to me. EVER.

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

(Yes. Precisely!)

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Burgundy faces structural shift

But doesn't every region?

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Shelf life of Port and Sherry

Well, it's not going to kill you, that's for sure. Whether it's actually worth drinking is another question. Care to tell us *exactly* what it is? Then we can provide you with a more specific answer . . .

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Who is drinking Beaujolais Nouveau? | decanter.com

Interesting graphic accompanies the article . . .

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

App predicts taste in wine and beer

I can think of at least one person who might benefit . . .

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Beer
1

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

So, when paying the bill, you actually say, "Wait a minute! You had 1.75 ounces more of that wine than I did. Pay up!"

Or, when figuring out the sales tax, do you ask "Does anyone have change for a penny?"

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine
1

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

As I said above, "Because it's a prime rib roast (as opposed to, say, a rib-eye steak), the short answer is that either a Pinot Noir/Burgundy or a Grenache/CdP should work quite nicely." I'd never serve a Cabernet/Bordeaux with a prime rib. Steak, yes; prime rib, no.

If you go for Beaujolais, I would make sure it's from one of the 10 crus -- preferably a Morgon, Brouilly, or Côte de Brouilly, I should think -- rather than a Beaujolais-Villages. The extra weight of (e.g.) a Morgon will work better with the prime rib while not overpowering the turkey, whereas a Beaujolais-Villages (depending upon the specific wine) might be overwhelmed by the prime rib -- particularly if, for example, there is a horseradish sauce to accompany.

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

What are your thoughts of this restaurant corkage fee policy?

>>> Unlike the food, the wine is not a unique product of skill created by the kitchen staff. <<<

No, it's a unique product of nature and skill (you apparently forgot nature's role in the food you eat "created" by the kitchen staff) "created" if you will by the staff tending the vineyard(s) and working within the winery.

>>> In nearly all instances, it is a mere commodity, with which you are getting the exact same product from every competent seller. <<<

Yes, because -- just like McDonald's endless supplies of Big Macs -- there's an endless supply of 1967 Château d'Yquem . . .

Nov 24, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

Agreed, ML

Nov 23, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Wine for prime rib and traditional Thanksgiving turkey dinner?

Chef June is correct; by-the-glass pricing will ALWAYS be higher than the equivalent volume of wine from a bottle.

Because it's a prime rib roast (as opposed to, say, a rib-eye steak), the short answer is that either a Pinot Noir/Burgundy or a Grenache/CdP should work quite nicely. I'd probably pass on the two other "standby" reds for Thanksgiving (Beaujolais and Zinfandel) in this case.

BUT . . . that's just me. And I drink far more French, Spanish, and Portuguese reds than I do Italian ones. So what that means is this: while *I* might opt for a a CdP, or even a Garnacha from Spain -- and I'll confess I'm giving serious thought to pulling out an aged Douro red for dinner -- I wouldn't disagree with opting for Italian and serving a nice Chianti Ruffina or a Barbera d'Alba.

In other words, there is ALWAYS more than one "right" answer when it comes to food pairing, and you won't go wrong with any of the wines mentioned thus far . . . and that includes Beaujolais or Zinfandel. And while I can't quite picture having a Cabernet/Merlot/Bordeaux with turkey, that would certainly work with the prime rib, so there you go!

You don't say how many people will be dining, but you could always order one of each and try them side-by-side. ;^) And yes, a good dry Riesling, perhaps, by the glass.

Nov 23, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Serious Question for those who "belong" to various retail wine "clubs"

As K&L wrote on its own website re: one of its Kalinda Cabernet, "This is another production coming from a famous-Cabernet-producer-known-for-giving-us great-juice-for-our-private-label who does not want people to know that this is being done." So, K&L won't tell. Also another dead give-away is that Kalinda wines come from Napa, Santa Ynez, the Santa Rita Hills, and the Willamette Valley of Oregon -- but the label is all the same.

OK, terminology: a PRIVATE label is owned by the retailer (think Trader Joe's selling "Trader Giuseppe's Gelato" or "Trader Darwin's Apple Juice"). No one else will ever sell anything under that brand.

Then there is a CONTROL label. A control label is typically owned by the producer. Think of, for example, a co-op winery in the Languedoc. They may have well over two dozen different labels available. Let's say you're Trader Joe's. Buy enough wine from them, and they won't use -- say Label #17 -- for any other buyer from the United States. Now, your biggest competitor (just for the sake of conversation, let's say it's Costco) may in fact go to the exact same co-op in France, and in fact buy the exact same wine. But no one will know, because it's bottled under Label #12. Meanwhile, the co-op may sell wine under Label #17 to someone in the UK, or China, or Brazil, but no one in the U.S. (or California or whatever the agreement specified) will be able to sell wine under Label #17.

At one point, Lindeman's (think Bin 65 Chardonnay) was a control label for Safeway stores, but within the state of California only.

Ashland Park® was, for example, a private label for Liquor Barn. We created the label and had the wines custom blended for us by purchasing wines on the bulk market and having an experienced winemaker put the blends together for us (then we'd taste the samples and approve the one we wanted). But Ashland Park was so successful that the winemaker wanted in on some of the action, too. So we made it into a control label, and sold the rights to use the label outside of California. As a result, Liquor Bard was the only retailer in California to be able to sell Ashland Park, but you might be able to find Ashland Park in Texas, or in Illinois, or in Massachusetts . . .

My uncle had a wine shop in LA, and we used to do a lot of private label stuff. We'd use "Old Duff" for distillates, but for wines, we just labeled then "Stan's Wine and Spirits." So, for example, the 1974 Stan's Wines and Spirits Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon was produced and bottled by Warren Winiarski at Stag's Leap Wine Cellars . . . but that was never on the label.

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Serious Question for those who "belong" to various retail wine "clubs"

True, but then again, the "exclusive" or "boutique" wine that no one has ever heard of is all-too-often a control label or special bottling by a major producer that everyone has heard of, except it's bottled under a different name!

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Serious Question for those who "belong" to various retail wine "clubs"

See, this is EXACTLY what I don't understand . . .

>>> "I don't know what I'm looking for or what to pay for it. Can you help me?" Is usually a way to get screwed. <<<

No, it's usually a way to get help. If you go into, say, an ACE hardware store and you don't know exactly what tool you need/want for a job, do you randomly buy one, or ask for help? If you go into a clothing store to buy a suit, whether it's Nordstrom's or Men's Wearhouse, does a salesperson assist you, or do you quote W.C. Fields and say, "Get away from me boy, you're bothering me . . . " If you're buying a vehicle -- be it a new or used car, or a mountain or road bike -- do you just say, "I'll take that one," or do you ask questions of the salesperson?

Why is wine any different?

>>> it is easy to waste $100 on a single bottle <<<

No, it's not. It's only easy if you a) spend an average of $100 on a single bottle, and b) -- you know, there is no "b". I cannot think of ANY bottle I've had that was $100 (+/-$25) that was a total "waste," unless it was corked, and that can happen to any bottle regardless of price. The odds of buying a bottle of absolutely crappy wine for $100 are infitessmially small compared to, say, buying a bottle <$5, or a bottle of "unclothed" wine, or a bottle of 2BC -- and yet, loads of people LIKE those unclothed wines and 2BC. (Maybe they drink 2BC unclothed, who knows?)

I am NOT picking on you, and certainly don't mean to sound like I am. But -- your fault; you answered me ;^) -- these are the same criticisms of retailers that I always hear, and my own experience is 180° -- exactly opposite -- of this. It's so much easier to get screwed buying unheard of labels from some internet-based company which is selling cheap wines that cost the company even less. Why do you think there are so many of these companies? Because there is a lot of REALLY CHEAP wine out there, and selling it through wine clubs can be VERY profitable!

;^)

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Japanese bathe in 2014 Beaujolais Nouveau wine

Well that's ONE way to use the wine . . . .

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Fücking beer causes offence

Was anyone surprised? Seriously???

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Beer

Booze Traveler Travel Channel

Is it me, or is that one of the worst names for a television show in history?

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Spirits

Serious Question for those who "belong" to various retail wine "clubs"

With the resurrection of the three-year old thread on the WSJ Wine Club, and the on-going embarrassment of the "Naked Wines" fiasco, I have a *serious* question for the regulars: Why rely on, search for, good wine clubs?

Now let me quickly point out there are three types of wine clubs out there, and I am only referring to one of these. Many wineries have wine clubs, as do retailers -- each are tailored to the desires of the consumer: you either get a number of assorted wines a year (usually one case) from Winery X, or a retailer sends you a certain number of (e.g.) sparkling wines a year, or Bordeaux, or . . . other specific type of wine.

These are NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like the Wall Street Journal Wine Club, the California Wine Cub one sees advertised in SkyMall or other magazines, and other, similar entities. You sign up, and you get 12 bottles a year -- most of which are wineries you (or anyone else) have never heard of. Maybe you get to specify you want all reds or all whites or a mix, but that's pretty much it. You automatically get 2 bottles every two months, or four bottles every three -- still adds up (usually) to 12 bottles/one case per year.

WHY? What is so advantageous about AVOIDING a knowledgable, local retailer¹ and relying on an unknown entity to choose wines for you?

Let me say that I, personally, have never understood it, and I truly am curious as to why someone would voluntarily choose to go this route.

TIA . . .

_______________
¹ OK, I get it if you're living in the middle of the Alaskan bush, where the nearest town is two hours away by plane, or a day away by dog sled, but short of that . . . .

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Château Beychevelle to showcase winemaking with glass-walled winery | decanter.com

Traditionally, Bordeaux has been the antithesis of, say, Napa Valley when it comes to tourism. Most top châteaux have long been closed without an appointment, or perhaps have a small tasting room with a small sign on the edge of the road that reads "Dégustation - Vente" (Tasting-Sales). And if you blink, you would have missed the sign.

Things are certainly changing!

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Burgundy split over new Cote d'Or appellation plan | decanter.com

Interesting points on both sides . . .

Nov 22, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Bibendum (UK wine merchant) predicts Beaujolais revival

Makes total sense . . . as long as you exclude Nouveau!

Nov 20, 2014
zin1953 in Wine

Weingut Loosen turns top vineyards to dry wine

Should either be outstanding, or a disaster . . .

Nov 20, 2014
zin1953 in Wine