chuynh's Profile
why do so many vietnamese restaurants have numbers in their names?
Well here’s my theory – an educated one, that is. The numbers may be the years that carry some significance to the owners/restaurateurs and their families or even an important date in Vietnamese history. Many of these numbers are often used as a remembrance of a new start in a new country, of the year when they left Vietnam, maybe the year when they arrived, or the year of some other important personal event.
The year 1954 was when the country Vietnam was split into North Communist Vietnam and South Vietnam or the Republic of Vietnam. This was also when many north Vietnamese migrated with their pho to the south. The year 1975 was when South Vietnam was lost to communism. This was the start of Vietnamese leaving the country in large numbers. Over more than 15 years after 1975, about 2 million Vietnamese refugees and “boat people” escaped the country looking for freedom elsewhere. Hence Pho 79, Pho 86, Pho 90, etc. may as well represent significant years for the restaurateurs.
How about Pho 777, Pho 888 and others? I think those are just easy numbers to remember, or lucky numbers for the owners. From a marketing standpoint, numbers are very easy to remember for both Viet-speaking and non-Viet-speaking clientele. So it can’t be bad. They just look and sound funny, but they work well.
There was definitely a period between 1975 and maybe mid 1990's that these numbers carry the historical significance. After that, with the younger generation, many numbers may lean more toward the latter explanation above. Extracted from my blog http://bit.ly/12NhaF
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Thanks for sharing a nice article! Yeah I'm waiting for the 40-page list (or at least the abridged version) to be published.
PHO noodles-ordering the right one? [moved from L.A. board]
Really there's no reason to buy dry banh pho any more. Even the fresh Sincere Orient banh pho like Jjason mentioned can be frozen for long-term storage. http://twitpic.com/qjhz9
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
I can't speak for Lao people, but I'd like to contribute the following with respect to Vietnamese.
Even though there were European missionaries in Vietnam's past, I think it's accurate to say there are little Portuguese influences in Vietnam, language or otherwise. Vietnam was under Chinese rule for about 1000 years, then another 100 years under the French after that, so one can make up his/her own mind about who gave how much and what influence to the Vietnamese.
For me, Viet people definitely have Chinese influences, no argument there. But there's also no argument about French influence either. In fact French was the second language in the country even during the Vietnam war, when the French were long gone and large number of Americans were there.
Many people fail to understand how strong the Viet-French tie is. Even in the 10 or so years following 1975 when the Communist government in Vietnam closed up the country, it was the Europeans and specifically the French who came back to Vietnam first to open diplomatic relations. Everyone knows the French love Viet people and vice versa. The Communist Vietnamese took credit for kicking out the French, but they won't admit that post-1975 Vietnam depended even more on the French.
One thing for sure though, Viet people (especially the commoners) adopted foreign words and added our own accents to make it "look" and "sound" right for our conversational use. The "ph" in "phở" is pronounced exactly as an "f" in French, since there is no letter f in the modern Viet alphabet. And I want to stress that there is no "p" sound in "phở" either.
Here are a couple of things not many people realized: 1) pho is now popular around the world due to the millions of Viet refugees who left the country since 1975, and 2) pho itself is being influenced by Americans, American way of life, and the American marketplace as we speak. But I digress.
Pho- is it .. good for you??
Yeah I admit culantro is kind of a strange name, though I like it a lot. Together with Thai basil, they're my trusty dynamic duo!
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
You know your Viet noodles. What's life without noodles right? They say Asians eat a lot of rice but I think I eat much more noodles.
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
LOL. I've never seen so much text that is so meaningless! I know what I was thinking at 11 AM on Sunday but it just didn't come out right :D
Guess what I was trying to say was: it's hard to force your favorite foods into a sequential rating. For example, if in the last 4 weeks, you had 10 pho, 3 hu tieu and 4 egg noodles, etc., it just means that pho may be your clear number one pick. But the rest may each be equally number 2, and for various reasons you just didn't have enough chance to eat them, or because each time you visited a restaurant you ended up picking pho (obviously because it's your most fav.) I hope this is more understandable.
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
Maybe I could have presented the case with a little better clarification. The comparison was about which dishes are good (meaning more than one can have 10, for example,) and not about forcing all 70+ noodle dishes on a curve (meaning none can have equal ranks.) We knew and understood that the latter would give artificial results, and the former would be fairer and more realistic.
Also certain postulations existed to help keep the results valid and minimize variations. It was assumed that each dish would be prepared by a proficient cook with acceptable authenticity, then all would get lined up to be chosen by a group of fairly knowledgeable North American diners. Taking into account the judgement was called by an Asian culinary expert who has deep understanding of the American palate, I think the results are more significant and interesting if I had included this information in the original post.
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
Actually you cant even find knife-shaved noodles even in well-known cookbooks (at least those sold in North America) so it wasn't even a part of the comparison. There are many other noodle dishes that were not considered for this reason. This comparison was done for those noodle dishes from the book.
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
Agree that there are many great Asian noodle dishes, and personal preferences and biases abound. I myself cannot live without a bowl of properly prepared Chinese mi sui cao, the simple Japanese udon and of course pho, among other things.
I guess the point is, given all these great noodle dishes, where does pho stand in relation to them all (or most of them that are known to Westerners.) In this case we accepted that the rankings are of samples of generally accepted quality and authenticity, and bad quality does not come into play. It's the only way to compare them each on its own merit. By the way the end result does not mean pho beats out all other noodles. It merely ranks pho among them. So "deliciousness" = 10 here means pho is one of the best tasting noodles among them - there are others too. So your point is well taken.
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
Hmm. Just thought of something based on your comment. Since this is both personal and subjective, I think once you pick your number one, which can be a valid clear selection of winner, the rest may all be questionable. Unless one actually has a record showing past counts ;) I think #2, 3, 4, etc. will be like "I feel like having this today because I haven't had it in a while so I kinda miss it" kind of thing, and therefore should have equal weight. That's why once I pick number 1, the rest are numbers 2 (whenever I feel like having them for various reasons.)
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
The analysis was about subjectively comparing pho to other Asian noodle dishes, so we did not rank the others. With her knowledge and her more than 70 recipes of noodles in the book, we were comparing noodles of all types (wheat, egg, buckwheat, rice and cellophane, in addition to dumplings; fried and soup varieties; hot and cold served; and from Asian regions of China, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand, plus Singapore.
I think it's good to try expand one's horizon. But I think the toughest part will be staying with your intent to order something else while you're immersed in pho aroma. It definitely challenges your will power not to order pho:)
Vietnamese Pho Soup Noodle Face-Off Against Other Asian Noodles
Just interviewed Asian culinary expert, author and teacher Corinne Trang on my pho blog. We talked about finding her culinary roots, writing books, teaching others, making food and living life. I also got her to do a noodle face-off between pho and other noodles. She should know, because she wrote the recently published book "Noodles Every Day."
Here’s the pho noodle face-off results I thought pho fans might find interesting: pho against other noodle dishes according to Corinne Trang. The scale is from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest level (best, most complex, etc.)
- Deliciousness of pho: 10/10 (one of the best)
- Degree of difficulty to make pho: 3/10 (not too difficult)
- Degree of difficulty to serve pho: 1/10 (very easy!)
- Number of ingredients required for pho: 7/10 (fair, but not numerous amount required)
- Pho popularity among non-Asians: 10/10
She also gave her detailed explanation as well. If I have to rate these myself, I would give “Difficulty to make pho” a 4/10 and “Degree of difficulty to serve pho” a 2 or 3, just because I would take into account the fact that many Americans didn’t grow up with pho, and therefore are unfamiliar with how it’s made and served from inside a kitchen. Still I think my own viewpoints do not disagree with Corinne Trang’s numbers.
Share your opinions please.
Pho etiquette? [Split from LA board]
@Passadumkeg: Fair comment and point well taken. I do want to say: thank you for your service.
Pho etiquette? [Split from LA board]
Here are some pho etiquette for the whole pho experience, because it's not just about eating. From my blog but I'm sharing them here. Sorry for the long post.
"Sitting” Etiquette
And you thought it’s just about eating pho right? Not so fast. Before everyone sits down, look at your table and the arrangement of the chairs. Decide where the head of the table is (or the most important sitting position) and yield to the eldest or most respected person in the group. But it gets more complicated. If there’s a very respected male (regardless of age,) then he may be the one to get “the chair.” More...
“Ordering Pho” Etiquette
Etiquette for ordering pho is fairly straightforward. For first-time pho diners finding yourself alone in a pho restaurant, a little help from the order taker is obviously required. Needless to say, if you’re in a group then assistance from an experienced friend is obvious. For the experienced pho diners, you probably already know what you’re doing. In any case, however, it’s proper to let the more senior member of the group order first. This is consistent with the “respect for the elders” consideration discussed earlier. Everyone else can select their orders in turn, and the youngsters’ foods can be ordered by one of the adults. More...
“Wiping Down Your Chopsticks and Spoon” Etiquette
It’s a habit for most Viet pho diners to wipe their chopsticks and spoon before eating their pho in restaurants. Some will start doing this as soon as they sit down at the table, even before ordering. This is an old habit of pho being a street food for the working class in Vietnam, and old habits die hard. But don’t worry, your typical neighborhood restaurants are used to Viet clientele doing this. They do not mind as it does not necessarily reflect on the restaurant’s sanitary condition. In fact it can be a sign of the client “making himself/herself at home,” and it is good for the restaurant, especially if it’s a repeat customer. More...
“Personalize Your Pho” Etiquette
Once your pho is at the table, everything you do from here on out is your own business. There normally are 2 things you may want to do before digging in: adding the garnishes (sprouts, culantro, basil, lime and sliced peppers,) and adding the sauces (hoisin sauce for pho and hot chili sauce, mainly the Sriracha brand in the U.S.) that are already at the table. Whatever your preferences, don’t let anyone tell you “you must have this or you must add that.” These are entirely optional per your own taste. Pho does not require you to have anything added, but adding some of these can enhance your pho. More...
“Slurping Your Pho” Etiquette
You’ve done everything correctly up to this point, Your original intent to simply grab a quick bowl of pho seems ages ago. But finally, this is the moment! Chopsticks in one hand (left or right,) spoon in the other. You go for it, with gusto. Of course it’s really not “anything goes,” because civility still counts in any culture. In Asia eating noodle requires slurping, and pho is no exception. So go ahead. Slurp. Just don’t overdo it.
“Finishing Your Pho” Etiquette
The proper way to finish a meal in Vietnam is to put your chopsticks across your bowl, like making a bridge. This may conflict with Japanese convention to never bridge chopsticks over a bowl, but Viet traditions follow many Chinese traditions, and this is one of them. While second and subsequent Viet generations outside of Vietnam begin to lose this tradition, it still is the accepted way to end a meal. More...
“Paying and Tipping” Etiquette
Tipping
Except for more expensive restaurants where service charges or tipping may be added or expected, servers at most “typical” pho shops in Vietnam do not expect tips as part of their service. Tipping, to the common Vietnamese (the working class,) is not what a Westerner may think. Tips are normally looked at as “spare change” or handouts that a worker would rather not accept. Except for beggars, workers, including those providing a service, do not want to be seen as accepting handouts. Tourism to Vietnam will change this over time, but for many places not impacted greatly by foreign visitors, tipping will probably continue to be nonexistent and not expected.
So what do you do? For U.S. restaurants, definitely leave tips. But if you’re in Vietnam, leave tips if you’re in a big city. If you find yourself in a place out in the boondocks, then tipping is not expected. But if you still must do it, then give it to the server directly and separately, with sincerity and friendliness. Or if the owner and server are one and the same (or family members) then just add more to your payment and ask them to not return the change. Not “keep the change,” but “no need to return the change.” More...
Paying for your meal
Americans and other non-Viet diners may have noticed that most Viet restaurants do not present checks at their tables. This is not bad service. It’s just because the restaurateurs do not want to look like they’re trying to shove you out the door by asking you to hurry up and pay. This is the common Viet restaurant way and it exists here in the U.S. too.
There have been major misunderstandings on both sides. The restauranteurs could have learned that western diners expect checks at their tables. But most restaurant operators never had a chance to be in American social environment and did not understand this. Likewise, Western diners never understood that most Vietnamese restaurants do not ask customers to pay this way for a reason. What we have is a perfect example of clash of culture. Fortunately, Viet restaurateurs and the younger generations are making headway, while non-Viet diners are making progress as well.
So what do you do knowing all this? Just do what the “regulars” do. Sometime knowledgeable servers will recognize a non-Viet customer and will present a check after your meal (while not necessarily doing the same for Viet customers.) But if this is not the case, then you (and everybody else) just go to the register and pay there. No more confusion.
What pairs well with your pho?
Nice. That's Viet restaurants for you: anything goes (within reason of course :) I remember I used to bring my own oil and filter to Viet-owned auto shops and they'd charge me only labor to change the oil!
What pairs well with your pho?
Thanks for the vote about the site! I'm an early 60's child and a product of a Southern father and Northern mother, so I'm lucky to get a little bit of all the good things. But somebody needs to conduct a study on how too much pho may affect one's brain and judgement ;) That's a lot of pho consumption, and you rock!
What pairs well with your pho?
cimui: Very interesting choices! I might just try some myself.
I love the varieties of what other people are choosing that work for them. And like many have recognized, pho by itself can fill you up fast. Not surprisingly, most female pho diners will only have something light to drink at the end ;)
Keep the responses coming!
What pairs well with your pho?
alanbarnes: You got the pho background correct. I would just like to update a few things.
I consider Chef Corlou and Andrea Nguyen some of the top authorities on Viet cuisine, including pho. It is true the Chef may spend much time in Hanoi, he is really a global chef. Beside making his presence known in north Vietnam, he's also spreading his influence in the south with his new restaurant Onthe6. I don't necessarily see all that he says about pho as gospel, but what he knows about pho and what he does with it is very important for the dish. He's not a Hanoian, he's a creative chef, so he respects the northern pho (pho Bac,) but has his own pho recipes as well.
I wrote 2 articles on the Chef, including an interview:
http://www.lovingpho.com/vietnam-travel/chef-didier-corlou-passion-pho-vietnamese-cuisine/
http://www.lovingpho.com/pho-opinion-editorial/interview-with-chef-didier-corlou-on-vietnamese-pho-and-vietnamese-cuisine/
Andrea Nguyen herself is a northern Vietnamese, as are many Viet refugees who left South Vietnam in 1975 - they were among the first to leave because they've already experienced communism once before in 1954. So it's true that pho shops outside of Vietnam are owned by refugees from South Vietnam, but many of them are northern Vietnamese by heritage. But the real important point here is this: Given the detectable variations among the so-called "southern pho" being served outside of Vietnam (and within Vietnam for that matter,) most everyone can treat northern (Hanoian) pho, as just another variation(s) of pho. The differences are subtle, and pho in the north vary among themselves as well depending on the cook.
So the Hanoi pho purists may disagree with this, but for many, if you want to experience pho Bac in any U.S. restaurant, do this: 1) don't add the garnishes (culantro, sprouts, basil,) hoisin and hot sauces to your bowl, 2) use lime to your preference, 3) ask them to add un-chopped white portions of the green onions, in sections of 1-3", blanched in the broth, and 4) ask for well-done beef, and/or pounded/chopped rare beef, as shown in this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/64783889@N00/98182475/in/set-72057594061588272/
You'll have a representative version of pho Bac.
What pairs well with your pho?
I hear many people (non-Vietnamese) mention pho as a hangover cure. Could be true but then again, pho is always good in the morning and will get you going fast under any circumstance ;)
Also, breakfast or lunch or any meal in France and in Vietnam is not the same as in the U.S. (fast, eat and go.) People have hours to relax and enjoy so, personally, I can see Chef Corlou's view. Obviously it wouldn't be possible at a street side pho stall, but definitely the thing to do in his own place or when he entertains guests (business or otherwise.)
What pairs well with your pho?
That's totally cool. You just bring it in with you and start serving yourself, maybe after ordering pho? Do people look at you funny, or wonder how they can get some too :)?
What pairs well with your pho?
What do you consider would pair well with your bowl of pho?
Of course pho is a meal in itself, and with the broth and noodles, it fills you up fast. A typical Vietnamese might order iced water and/or tea, sometime a soda, mainly to help wash it down afterward. My friend Tim (a Caucasian) will have 2-3 full glasses of iced water by the time he finishes his bowl to empty! I myself sometime get a nice cold beer to go with my bowl of tai, chin, sach. Pho expert Chef Didier Corlou says "it is great to have a glass of Merlot red wine before eating but never beer! The red wine will put up the taste of Pho."
Your opinion?
More pho polls: http://www.lovingpho.com/pollsarchive/
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Yes. Heard good things about Viet community in Vancouver. And if these don't make you salivate I don't know what will:)
http://twitpic.com/afzpv
http://twitpic.com/afzh0
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Correction. 90 degree, 95%+ humidity, no A/C ;)
How Important to You is Pronunciation? (vis-a-vis Food)
I would venture to guess the daughter (who is fluent in English) would have a non-Viet accent to many Vietnamese ears. When we Viet kieu (overseas Vietnamese) go back to Vietnam now, aside from the fact that we definitely have an American sounding accent, speech pattern and body language in our manners, there's really a 30 year gap between Viet language in Vietnam and in the U.S. So we're struggling ourselves as well. But you're right, and I think the only universal language is the slurping of the noodle.
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
You're absolutely right about the varying heat. Of course not everyone can take it all the time. What I meant was it should be experienced at least once to get the full impact, because it's definitely not the same with low/no heat, kind of like certain Thai dish has to have some serious heat. The fun part for me was to tell the lady at the market (or street-side vendor) how much of that red stuff floating in her huge boiling pot you want in your bowl lol.
How Important to You is Pronunciation? (vis-a-vis Food)
Glad that helped. Obviously individuals have their own accents depending on where they're from. In the case of pho, to foreign ears it sounds different from different Viet speaking person. So naturally the foreign person assumes there is no standard pronunciation. But on the contrary. Viet people know exactly which accent and dialect the speaker is conversing in and we properly compensate for it. There's only one way to say pho, but non-Viet speakers do not understand the different accents yet.
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Yep. That's why pho is a little more acceptable to Westerners. For pho there's always a choice of going simple and safe with just the recognizable beef parts. With bun bo Hue you are getting into things that do not normally show up on your day to day plate. Here in the states restaurants have dialed down on the hotness, but to really experience bun bo Hue, you must be sweating profusely by the end of the meal :)
Pho. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Bun bo Hue is the real thing (assuming they do this right.) The city of Hue is the capital of Central Vietnam and the noodle dish is supposed to be hot and spicy. Bun ga Hue is just a concoction created for non-red-meat American crowd. North Vietnam has pho, south Vietnam has hu tieu and central Vietnam has bun bo Hue.
By the way bun bo Hue is not a modified pho. It's a unique dish in itself. Hope that helps.
Pronouncing Pho and Ordering Pho
Agree with your good points and they're well taken. And it's such a complex subject that we can't explain or discuss it in just a few sentences or paragraphs and covering all scenarios. The end result is generalization which I always try to avoid (but not always succeed :)
To be sure, we're a real small and special group here chatting away because we care about the subject. The "many," "most," "others," and "people" that we refer to are the rest of the world out there (my "carelessness" reference.) And you're right many don't care about nitpicking this thing to death like us;)
Here's a funny example. Many Vietnamese have given up on correcting someone mispronouncing his/her name. Granted it's not easy, but a case in point is a Viet acquaintance of mine deliberately mispronounces my name when speaking in English. Why? To not sound "foreign." Many Vietnamese, and I'm sure other immigrants as well, are very conscious about being accepted as Americans, and end up americanizing Viet words in order to help their American friends learn Vietnamese. Of course it's not true in all cases, but I know it's true for many many cases because 1) I have the urge to do it myself but consciously decided against it, and 2) the other people don't care.
No ill will intended. Just trying to undo the damage, so to speak.
