Again, we are NOT speaking of sales to manufacturers. We are talking of sales to consumers, who do not care whether the cast iron of the skillet is a mongrel of several distinct cast iron specs. If you combine one type of cast iron with another type of cast iron to make a bastard cast iron, you may sell the resulting mix to consumers as cast iron. As you point out, "if you made a pot out of all scrap the end user would never be able to tell," but one batch may differ from the preceding batch or the next batch. And (therefore) a pot cast from the first heat may have different cooking properties from a pot cast from the second heat.

As your own post says, "... if a manufacturer sells nodular cast iron ..." But we are not talking about nodular cast iron; we are talking about generic cast iron cookware, and nothing in the world prevents a cookware manufacturer from buying cast iron from several cheap lots offered on the spot market the day the manufacturer decides to buy, even if they are dissimilar, and using them together to make cast iron cookware.

CK, I think that the OP's question was not limited to matters of seasoning.

I, too, doubt that the older Griswold cookware was made from a more pure form of iron; but I am not sure that purer iron is better for cooking, either. After all, without the carbon that dilutes the iron's purity, the cookware would not even be cast iron. Returning to the sea salt analogy, it is exactly the impurities that cause some cooks to prefer some kinds of sea salt over pure NaCl.

The "right" impurities very well could improve the cooking qualities of cast iron cookware, but I am not about to venture a guess what impurities (other than carbon) might make for an improvement over pure iron.

CK: "Cast iron is cast iron. They are not really different. "

Yes and no. Depending upon where the ore was mined, different iron castings may have different impurities (substances other than iron and carbon), and different proportions between iron and carbon, which -- at least theoretically -- may give the castings different cooking properties (thermal conductivity, porosity, etc.). An analogy would be the differences among various sea salts (fleur de sel from northwest France, flor de sal from the Algarve in Portugal, Maldon salt from England, Trapani salt from Sicily, etc.), all of which are at least 96% NaCl, but, because of different impurities, taste different from each other

But -- back to cast iron -- no manufacturer gives a full specification of the impurities or of the precise iron to carbon ratio, and in these days of rationalized commodity markets, it is likely that any current manufacturer's products vary slightly from batch to batch. And, like you, I do not know if it makes any practical difference.

To the OP Ritcheyd: you might also look into the nickel impregnated Olvida cast iron cookware, http://www.olvidacookware.com. That new cast iron possibly may be better than vintage cast iron.

epop: "Would you say that cooking in those Nambu region vessels is any different from the cast iron pods such as Lodge?"

Well, yes, of course. A good cook can make better dishes in a Lodge pot than a poor cook can make in Nambu cast iron. Yo-yo Ma can make better music on a cello from the high school music room than most high school students can make from Yo-yo Ma's Stradavari cello. Equipment does not trump talent and experience. But a good cook can make use of the superiority of Nambu cast iron just as he or she can take advantage of a top notch knife compared to a supermarket knife. High quality tools extend the ability and the acquired knowledge that already is there.

I think the sequence was that the 166 model from Solis (a Swiss manufacturer) was selected by Starbucks as its high-end (within the Starbucks range) grinder; then Baratza was formed and became the Solis importer for the United States. The Baratza people, in collaboration with Mark Prince (Coffegeek), among others, made some improvements to the Solis 166 design and offered a new model, the Solis Maestro, with the improvements. (The Maestro looked more broad-shouldered than the tall-n-skinny Solis 166.) The Maestro Plus later was introduced, featuring a beefed up burr holder and a weighted bottom, but the Solis Maestro stayed in the line. The Starbucks Barista was essentially the Solis Maestro Plus, with the timer mechanism taken off the power switch. (The original Solis Maestro an Maestro Plus had a switch that wound down like an egg timer; the Starbucks Barista switch was visually similar, but was strictly on/off.) Later production changes involved a more powerful, slower-turning, electric motor, introduced first in the Virtuoso, then filtering down to the lower lines.

My understanding is that Baratza upgrades the Starbucks Baristas in the refurbishment process by incorporating all of the subsequent improvements -- more powerful, slower, motor, etc. -- that followed after the units were sold new in the Starbucks stores.

The Starbucks Barista was essentially the Baratza Maestro Plus, and Baratza is selling the refurbished Starbucks Barista (with a warranty) for $69.

E_M: "What about handle material?"

Greetings from Portland, Oregon, home of Best. With the whole Best line to choose from, we favored the wooden handle version. It fits the hand well, and does not fatigue. And, as noted, it is dishwasher safe, though I probably would not throw the same one into the dishwasher every day after day.

maxinboston, you may not realize it, but your topic line betrays your question. You can easily go deep into $four digits getting the "best" burr grinder, and I think that your needs are more modest, as your question about sub-$100 reveals. The "best buy" for a high quality burr grinder at any reasonable price point will be found in the Baratza product lines, and the real steal is the Baratza refurbished grinder wearing a "Starbucks Barista" disguise, which you can purchase directly from Baratza: http://www.baratza.com/cgi-bin/commer...

You will not find any grinder anywhere near as good as the refurbished Starbucks Barista for even double the price at which Baratza sells it, certainly not the Breville at half again the price.

HollingV: "I've been looking for a short flexible steel spatula for using with scrambled eggs on a carbon steel pan. The only flexible ones out there, except one, are too long and seem to be designed for turning fish. I seem to remember, as a kid, small steel spatulas that were pretty springy."

You did not look very hard, apparently. There are many small flexible stainless steel spatulas* out there, several in the Norpro line alone. *(There are some regional differences in terminology, in that people on some regions call what you are looking for a "turner" and reserve the term "spatula" for the squeegee things that one uses to scrape the sides of a bowl.)

As CK points out, Oxo Good Grips -- the same brand that made the silicone-coated turner that you eviscerated -- markets a non-silicone-coated spatula for scrambled eggs and the like, which is called a "Stainless Flexible Turner #2859" on this website: http://fantes.com/turners.html where it sells for half the price of the same item in CK's link.

sderham wrote: "Le Tourne au Verre: very popular wine bar and bistro in Cairanne. Lunch is around 14 euros for 3 courses, dinner is 23 euros. About 15 wines by the glass at food prices."

Yes! We ate lunch there last Saturday, and it was the best meal that we have ever eaten in France. Yes, Le Tourne au Verre's euro14.50 lunch was head and shoulders superior, course for course, to a euro100 dinner we had recently eaten in Paris. As a bonus, the wines on the menu are more reasonably priced than we have seen elsewhere. We had an excellent Domaine Armand (AOC Rasteau) rouge for 24 euros that we liked enough that we bought a pair of bottles for take-away (euro11.50 each) to relive the moment later.

natschultz (five months ago): "This is an old thread, but I know Politeness is still around ..."

Not much. The script kiddies who play with the software at CBS last March 31 changed this (and other CBS boards) in a manner that made it very difficult for many of us to read and post on CBS-sponsored boards. I have to borrow my spouse's laptop in order to participate. And I am much less inclined to go to that extra trouble because of the behavior of one anonymous moderator of this board who, whenever one makes the slightest criticism of cookware made by The Brand That May Not Be Named Except In Praise, fires off a warning and threat. Those two factors create a strong disincentive to participation. You may have noted the disappearance as well of other formerly active participants on this board.

[natschultz, anent the Iwachu Nambutetsu tempura pot] "Politeness, how big is that Tempura pot? The website does not give dimensions (just 10.5" diameter)."

The Iwachu pot is 10.5" across at the rim (not including the handles); its sloping sides and rounded bottom contour make it slightly smaller at the bottom. It is 3.5" high, and sits on three small nub feet. (Despite the slight separation from the cooktop surface that the feet provide, the pot works well on induction cooktops.) I have attached a photo of the outside bottom to this message.

natschultz: "I recently purchased a no-name vintage cast iron 10" pot with a nifty tall bunt-pan shaped lid. The bottom is 8" across, and the sides are 3" high (slightly sloped out). Is this large enough to make that Dutch Baby in?"

That volume certainly is sufficiently large for the 3-egg version of the recipe. It _probably_ would suffice for the 4-egg version, also, but possibly it would be a tad small.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8022...

Also, the Kuhn-Rikon Duromatics are excellent every day pots and pans that are fully induction-compatible even if you never remove the pressure lids from the drawer.

twyst: "Any suggestions?"
http://www.amazon.com/Matfer-Bourgeat...

Seasoned according to Matfer Bourgeat's instructions (takes about 15 minutes), it is at least as nonstick as Teflon, and stays that way. Constructed from a heavier gauge of steel than the similar deBuyer. Fabriqué en France.

"Why do you use it?"

If you cook an artichoke any other way, it comes out the color of World War II Infantry yellowish green and is mushy -- unless you undercook it, then the leaf is too hard to bite into. If you cook an artichoke in a pressure cooker, it comes out dark green, as nature intended, and tender, but al dente. Same with asparagus: only a vertical-hold steamer insert (which most of use do not have) is as capable as a pressure cooker for cooking asparagus.

In preparing to mash potatoes, there is no better way than pressure cooking to get the potatoes soft enough to mash without overcooking and losing a lot of flavor.

In making risotto, you save no time with a pressure cooker compared to the pan-stir method, but novices or infrequent risotto makers get more consistent and more predictable results in the pressure cooker.

Without the pressure lid, most pressure cookers -- certainly, the Kuhn-Rikon Duromatics -- make excellent weapons, durable and massive; a Duromatic will stop almost any handgun bullet and is easier to hold as a shield than a cast iron skillet, which anyway probably would shatter at the impact of the first round.

camillalieberman: "When looking for new cookware for the cooktop I have coming, the girl told me I would not be able to use tall stock pot or the pasta pot w it's strainer. I couldn't use a double boiler eather."

The girl is flat-out wrong. Believe nothing that she tells you, as she has demonstrated that she does not regard her ignorance as an impediment to spewing false advice.

Induction transfers energy as an alternating magnetic field to the pot, which converts the magnetic energy to heat inside the pot. If you cook on a gas burner, the heat is applied at the bottom of the pot; if you have flames lapping up the sides of any pot other than a wok, you are just showing off, not cooking. Once the heat from a gas burner makes its way through the thickness of the pot to the inside of the bottom of the pot, a gas burner heats the stock on a tall stock pot or boils the water in the bottom of a bain marie (double boiler) exactly the way the heat works inside a pot on an induction burner.

If you cook on a resistive electric cooking surface (either coil or flat-top), the heat source heats the bottom of the pot only. Once the heat from a resistive electric burner makes its way through the thickness of the pot to the inside of the bottom of the pot, a resistive electric burner heats the stock on a tall stock pot or boils the water in the bottom of a bain marie exactly the way the heat works inside a pot on an induction burner.

An additional point concerning bain maries: because induction technology allows a pot to be maintained at a very low simmer, there are fewer occasions when a bain marie is a necessity when you cook with induction than there are with gas or resistive electric heat sources. For instance, it is easy to melt chocolate without scorching on induction, even without using a bain marie.

The Matfer Bourgeat skillet ("round frypan") arrived soon after our return from Tennessee, was presented to spouse, then promptly made less beautiful by following Matfer's instructions to fry a mess of potato skins in oil with "a lot" of salt. Having done so, the skillet no longer looks pristine, but boy is it nonstick! It has been a couple of decades or more since any Teflon or Silverstone piece of cookware has been in this house, but the Matfer skillet at least equals the slickness of the slickest Teflon or Silverstone pans that we used to use in the dim distant past.

The price for the 8-5/8' "black steel" frypan, incidentally, was under $21 at http://www.culinarycookware.com/bourg... A bargain!

ipsedixit, we have owned only one nonstick pan ever (excluding the defective Sitram Cybernox unit that we bought and returned the same day when it disintegrated), and none in the past 30 years (excepting the Cybernox). We never have had a problem with eggs, even scrambled eggs, sticking. We are not heros, by any stretch of anyon's imagination, but we are mindful of the heat of the surface of the pan when we pour in the eggs, and we do not start to turn the eggs before their time. It's not rocket science.

Chemicalkintics: "'Having used both' What both? A round bottom wok and a flat bottom wok on induction cooktop?"

No: both induction and non-induction cooktops with rounded-bottom pots and pans. Our first induction cooktop was a hybrid with two medium-sized induction cooking areas and one large and one small ribbon radiant cooking area; prior to that, we were lumbered with a coil-top electric range for a couple of decades; prior to the coil-top range, I had been a gas person all of my life. We have used rounded bottom pots and pans on all of those cooking appliances.

"...the field strength decreases very fast especially when there is a closer path to complete the magnetic current. Much like an electric current, if there is another shorter and less resistance path, it will go through that. So it will close the circuit on the bottom of the wok without going through the top -- something which infared does not do."

I think that you misappehend the properties of both electrical circuits and of free-air magnetic fields. If you wire an electrical circuit in a ladder shape, the current flows through all of the "rungs," not just the one closest to the mains connection; that is called a parallel circuit (as opposed to a serial circuit).

Magnetic fields do not behave in the same manner as wired circuits, and you are correct that the presence of magnetic material within the field of an external magnet does shape the field much in the way that a large boulder in the midst of a creek will shape the flow of the stream of water; but the magnetic material will not "short circuit" the magnetic field. When we place a thick cast iron pot atop an induction burner, the oscillating magnetic field commences to excite the molecules on the inside surface of the pot at the same time as it excites the molecules closer to the surface of the cooktop; the inside of the pot heats directly, not by conduction from the outside surface of the pot. Similarly, the sides of the pot start to heat at the same time, and need not wait for conducted heat from the bottom of the pot.

The magnetic field of an induction appliance DOES drop off with the square of the distance from the inverter (which is below the Ceran layer of the cooktop, and thus is a bit removed from the surface upon which the pot rests), but the drop-off is no more pronounced as a function of distance than the drop-off of heat with distance from a ribbon radiant under the Ceran layer or from the surface of a coil-top resistive electric burner.

Incidentally, I apologize for the sloth of my reply. Since CBS reprogrammed this board on March 31, I no longer can post to it with three of the four computers (each of which runs a different operating system) in this location, and as a consequence I look in on this board only when I find myself logged onto my spouse's laptop, which occurs much less frequently than my use of the desktop computers.

kaleokahu anent Induc'Inox: " My understanding is that, while it worked very, very well on induction, it did poorly on other hobs, perhaps because of its SS+carbon+SS construction."

Although we now have an induction-only cooktop, formerly we had a cooktop with two induction burners and two ribbon radiant burners. On the ribbon radiant burners, our Mauviel Induc'Inox splayed side ("Windsor" or " tout fait") saucepan performed as wells or better than any other piece of cookware that we used on those burners. It was, and remains, my favorite pot for making oatmeal; my spouse prefers the Induc'Inox to our cast iron skillet for braising a steak. For thinner concoctions, like heating up a can of chicken noodle soup, the Induc'Inox is a fine choice as well, but either our Demeyere Apollo vertical walled saucepan or our Zani Karen vertical walled saucepan is a better choice, because more of the heat that the induction inverter generates in the pot ends up in the soup and less goes into the kitchen.

E_M, we have a Demeyere mussel pot that was designated part of the Apollo line when we bought it about ten years ago. From pictures of the Resto mussel pot, it appears to be the same. The diameter of the pot is a standard size, 20 cm, if I am not mistaken, and we use lids from other pots on it without question -- yes, they work well.

The mussel pot is our "go-to" pot for making beef stew. We warm up some olive oil in the bottom, and brown some garlic in it, while we put a few tablespoons of flour in the (inverted) top and toss the stew beef pieces in it. Then we brown the floured beef pieces in the oil and garlic, add a bit of red wine, fill the pot just to the level where the beef pieces are covered, bring the liquid to a boil, and immediately turn down to a simmer. The rest of the stew is using up whatever carrots, potatoes, etc. are around, and spicing to taste. I guess the part about browning the beef pieces addresses your question whether the mussel pot can be used for solids and proteins.

The unique shape of the mussel pot's top makes it useful, apart from the pot itself, for breading other pieces of meat that will be fried or sauteed in other pans, and it is the perfect size and shape for dipping bread for French toast.

ted: "$20"

That is the price (not including shipping) of the heavier Matfer Bourgeat pan (also made in France) on-line.

http://www.culinarycookware.com/bourg...

CK: "If we are talking about a flat bottom wok, then I would say the induction heating is more concentrated at the bottom than an electric resistive stove top..."

Having used both, I think that exactly the opposite is the case. All of the heat from an electric resistive energy source must get to the food by conduction from the outside of the pot to the inside, which can be a slow trip with cast iron. The magnetic field of an induction energy source does not require physical contact, so the energy is transmitted at the speed of propagation of electromagnetism across the entire bottom of the wok, and the inside of the wok is heated at the same time as the outside, without having to wait for conduction from the outside through the metal in the form of heat.

josephn1: "What would you get?"

Coincidence. Even as you asked the question, I was making a purchase of a skillet. However, I dod not see your question until today, because the orser was the last thing I did on the computer before boarding a flight with my spouse to make the early 3,000 mile pilgrimage to sample the nonpareil bread at the Dutch Maid Cafe in Tracy City, TN, and I have been off-line for three days.

The skillet I purchased, a birthday present for my spouse upo our return to Oregon, is a Matfer Bourgeat "black steel" skillet, similar to the deBuyer skillet some others have mentioned here, but a bit upscale from the deBuyer.

http://www.matferbourgeatusa.com/prod...

kaleokahu: "I disagree that conductive metal up the sides of a pan are a waste or counterproductive. Yes, some heat energy flows outward into the room, but a lot of it flows the other way into the food; depending on your hob, this can make the difference between making or keeping a vigorous boil or not. And pans with conductive sidewalls heat the contents faster and more evenly."

Disagreement on many topics is not only acceptable, but welcomed. But disagreement on the laws of physics is not a voting issue. Within a conductor, heat always flows from the area of higher temperature to the area of lower temperature, and not from the area of low temperature to the area of high temperature.

When the contents of a pot or pan is a non viscous liquid, the fastest and most efficient means to transport heat from the bottom of the pot to the top of the pot is through convection currents within the liquid itself; convection of the liquid is much faster and much more efficient than applying heat externally from the sides of the vessel, and has the added benefit of naturally mixing the ingredients within the pot.

The entire concept and purpose of cooking is to raise the temperature of the food above the ambient temperature of its surroundings. As soon as one starts to cook the food inside a pot, then, if the sides of the pot are capable of conducting heat, heat will flow from the hotter zone (the food) to the cooler zone (the room air). The more efficient the sides of the pot are to conduct heat, the more efficient is the transfer of heat away from the food and into the room. That is elementary physics, not conjecture, simply a matter of the manner by which molecules pass off energy to adjacent molecules.

"The rub is that most clad with conductive sidewalls is made so thin that it IS wasteful and counterproductive."

Yes. In a clad construction, energy applied to the bottom of the pot is stolen from the bottom -- where it most directly conducts heat to the coldest layer of the liquid inside the pot -- up the long route through the sides of the pot, with losses of energy along the way, mostly to the cooler room air outside the pot. In contrast, the energy applied to the bottom of the pot goes straight to the liquid inside without passing "Go" and without collecting $200. Of course, up to a point, the level of energy applied to the bottom of a clad pot can be increased to compensate for the transmission losses of the long journey up the sides. But, in addition to risking scorching the contents at the bottom of the pot by raising the energy in that manner, in the meantime, the additional energy transmitted to the bottom of the liquid inside the pot will accelerate the convectetion upward within the liquid itself, and the heated liquid inside wins the race to the top every time; so when the heat in the clad pot's center layer finally does get there, it has no place to go but out into the room. (Heat always flows from the warmer zone to the cooler zone.)

"IMO limiting yourself in 2011 to cookware that will work with induction ..."

It is not a limitation, not in selection, and not in price, if you are not attempting to preserve a prior investment in specific pieces of cookware. A majority of options among existing cookware choices in 2011 (as it alwys has been) is induction compatible, ranging from cheap enameled rolled steel pots to all kinds of cast iron, to high-end Demeyere, Sitram, Bourgeat, WMF, Hackman, and The Brand That May Not be Mentioned on Chowhound Except in Praise. The only limitation is that some procedures in wok cooking are better done on a flame that licks high up the sides of the wok from a source that probably would violate most fire codes applcable to private residences. But that one area where induction is not the first choice is a property shared with all forms of electric cooktops, whether coil, "glass" top, ribbon radiant, or halogen; it is a matter of geomery, and even there induction units can be, and are made in dished shapes to apply heat up the sides of woks that conform to the dished shape. Diseconomies of small scale, however, dictate that dished induction units will remain disproportionately high priced relative the their frequency of use in a residential kitchen.

Sydneyyeats. it sounds as if you have used Cascade/Cascade and Jet Dry/Jet Dry. We have never used any kind of Cascade detergent, but we prefer Cascade Crystal Clear rinse agent to the Jet Dry rinse agent. We use the Cascade rinse agent with Ecover powder as the detergent, and out dishes come out spotless, no film.

LavenderPeony, for frypans, in addition to the promotionally priced (about $61 for the 8" size) Chantal Fusion starter frypan, you might also look into the very reasonably priced Matfer Bourgeat "black steel" pans. In many ways similar to cast iron in the way they perform, the Matfer Bourgeats are lighter in weight and a bit faster responding than cast iron. There are several threads on this board about the deBuyer steel pans; the Matfer Bourgeat are similar, but a bit heavier gauge and higher quality, but still affordable.

Jay F: "Any specific saucepan recommendations?"

The Demeyere Apollo line is a good benchmark with which to compare saucepans. Demeyere has gone to a good deal of trouble to assess how each kind of pot or pan is likely to be used, and to optimize the utensil to that purpose. Sitram also makes excellent saucepans, at a lower price point (usually) than Demeyere.

There are two levels of Berndes cookware, both designed in Germany, but only the higher end lines are made in Germany; the lower priced lines are made in the PRC, and often avalable at places like Tuesday Morning. If you are not concerned about Chinese made products, the Berndes cookware is worth a review.

And the Chantal Copper Fusion line is always worth looking into.

Hope these pointer help.

LavendarPeony: "Any advice??"

The main criteria are evenness of distribution of heat and ease of cleaning.

As to evenness of distribution of heat, you want a highly conductive layer; you want the highly conductive layer to be appropriately thick; and you want the expensive materials where they will do the most good.

Taking those one at a time, silver is more conductive than copper; copper is more conductive than aluminum; aluminum is more conductive than steel; steel is more conductive than cast iron; cast iron is more conductive than stainless steel; and stainless steel is more conductive than glass. Enamel is a form of glass. The thicker a layer of highly conductive material, the more effective; put conversely, a thinner layer of copper will serve as well as a thicker layer of aluminum.

For cooking nonviscous liquids, soups, and stews, where a good convection current can be induced in the contents of the pot, a pot with conductive sidewalls is wasteful and counterproductive. Most clad pots (pots with a conductive layer, usually aluminum, sandwiched between low maintenance layers, usually stainless) have a thin and puny center conductive layer that is not terribly effective in conducting heat up from the energy source, and a lot of the heat that _is_ conducted up the sides ends up going out into the room instead of inward to the contents of the pot. Meanwhile, the conductive layer in the sides facilitates the heat that is convected upward by the currents within the vessel to be conducted out through the pot walls, again to the room and away from the contents of the pot. You are much better off with a disk bottom saucepan with a thick disk and plain vertical stainless sidewalls than you are with a clad pot that is thinner at the bottom, where a thicker profile would be more functional, and the clad sidewalls waste the more expensive conductive materials.

For frypans and saute pans, the reverse is true. There, it is useful to have zones of varying temperatures within the pot, so that you the cook can move the contents being cooked toward or away from the hottest zone to speed up cooking of some parts while keeping other parts from scorching. For that kind of pot, then, clad construction generally is indicated.

As for clean-up, why not have pans that can be washed in the dishwasher? Many pans, including most anodized aluminum pans, cannot be thrown into a dishwasher. For that matter, why not have pans that occasionally can be used in the oven? Many pans, especially those with plastic or wooden handles, cannot.

Finally, take into account that sooner or later, you will have an induction cooktop or range. Induction is the wave of the future; resistive electric and gas are the remnants of the past. Induction is faster and more powerful than gas, and can be more finely tuned than gas, and induction will overtake gas just as a hundred years ago electric lighting overtook gas lighting. But not all pots and pans are induction compatible. For any given size or type of pot (except a wok), you can find an induction-compatible pot that is just as high quality as a noninduction pot of the same size and type -- and the prices are likely to be comparable. So now, when it may be a matter of indifference for immediate use whether a pot is or is not induction compatible, the induction compatible pot is the better investment. That way, you can continue to use it when you convert to induction in the future.

buttertart: "Is there another coffeemaker at a lower price point that makes strong European-style coffee?"

Vev Vigano Kontessa Nuova 6 cup, about $60+shipping
http://www.kasbahouse.com/villawareon...