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Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

I'm happy that you found a flavorful Kishka. I'm still looking for the old style using intestine for a casing. Caplansky's casing is apparently edible, but not intestine. It might be the common collagen casing. IMHO this is much better than inedible casings, but not the Kishka of my youth. I'm going to try to get some from one of bagelman01's Polish spots in CT.

Nov 17, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

Thank you!

Nov 17, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

OK! Now we need you to NAME NAMES, as in one of the Seinfeld episodes....Which Polish delis?

Nov 17, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

You are correct. There is no question that fish is frozen and purchased by restaurants and markets. The issue revolves around the claims that (a) all stone crab are frozen because it is the law and (b) no fresh stone crab is sold at any restaurant because it is always frozen.

Some of us disagree.

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

I agree with your comments completely. Fish does not have to be frozen to avoid spoilage. 'Fresh' fish is placed on ice or refrigerated to allow it to get to market before significant damage is done. Some fish is 'superfrozen' which avoids much of the damage caused by ice crystal formation, but I would rather have fresh fish almost all the time, whether at restaurants or when cooking at home.

I have spent many hours learning about sushi, and I was told that there are situations where chefs recommend fish that is not fresh killed because the tissue can be tough and chewy immediately after death. Waiting a few minutes or hours or even days is considered best by some experts. In fact, when tuna (perhaps Bluefin) was served one or two hundred years ago in Japan, it was caught and then buried for perhaps 4 days in order for it to develop a better taste and texture, apparently. In fact, tuna was given the name 'shi-bi' which I was told means 4 days.

So, fresh may be in the eyes and tastebuds of the beholder, but I certainly prefer my fish fresh whenever possible. Leave the frozen fish to Mrs. Paul's and her fish sticks.

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

Joe's will absolutely replace your stone crabs if you are unhappy with them. They provide good service and will even remove the charges for problem items or give out gift certificates to unhappy customers. However, I don't go there very often anymore because several times in a row I had poor quality stone crab that were either previously frozen, old or stored improperly (perhaps soaking in water from melted ice.) Whatever the reason, I was not pleased when I brought a group of ten people to Joe's, ordered hundreds of dollars of stone crab for them and found several crab legs to be of low quality. Of course I could not taste each leg to determine the quality and I did not want to make everyone at the table wait (all of whom had started eating) until I got the attention of the waiter and asked him to replace them and had them served again - not to mention creating a scene and perhaps making my guests uncomfortable. I simply do not want to be put in that position, so I don't bring guests there anymore, even though, as you correctly state, they would replace and atone.

I realize that I have eaten many hundreds of pounds of stone crab in my life and therefore I am probably in the minority regarding my ability to judge quality product. Yes, I am pickier than most consumers. I want fresh, sweet crab that doesn't stick to the shell and snaps when you bite into it. I don't get that every time I order stone crab, but when I do, I am on cloud nine. It is one of the most wonderful meals you can experience, and THAT is what makes me picky. :)

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

I agree. I mean, anyone that appreciates quality stone crab or lobster would NEVER choose frozen product over fresh product, properly prepared and handled. Even King Crab - which is mostly available frozen in the US - if you have ever tasted fresh cooked King Crab you would never want to go back to the frozen product. I'm getting hungry...

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

I don't know where you get your information, but you are completely wrong about there being a law in Florida that stone crabs must be frozen and you are completely wrong in stating that all commercial fishermen freeze them and that this is an industry standard. Yes, you can buy frozen stone crab, just like you can buy frozen lobster and frozen soft shell crab and frozen versions of most fish. However, anyone that understands and appreciates quality fish knows that fresh product is generally much better than frozen product. Some would argue that fresh is always better. All of the leading restaurants that I know that serve stone crab make it clear that they sell fresh, not frozen, stone crab, in spite of the fact that there are concerns that they are not always telling the truth. Fresh stone crab meat comes out easily, doesn't stick to the shell, doesn't smell fishy, has a snap to it and is sweet and flavorful. Frozen or poorly prepared or poorly stored product is completely the opposite and often limp and tasteless.

With the possible exception of superfreezing some fish such as tuna for sushi, normal freezing causes cell damage that affects the flavor and texture of fish, including crab and lobster.

The best restaurants serve fresh fish, not frozen fish. Low quality restaurants might serve only frozen fish. I've been to restaurants in South Florida that serve horrible fish, but that's an entirely separate thread.

You can look into Legal Seafoods and Whole Foods and Monty's Stone Crab and other sources of Stone Crab and you will see that they state that they provide FRESH product. If you Google stone crabs you will find that there are plenty of commercial fishermen that state that they sell fresh product. It took me a minute to find lots of examples. I really don't know where you are getting your information from.

I almost always buy fresh fish to prepare at home or when I am at a good restaurant. You are wrong if you think that all fish caught by commercial fishermen is frozen. Maybe you are confusing keeping fresh fish on ice with fish being frozen.

If your husband runs a chain of restaurants that sells frozen stone crab, I hope that I never eat there.

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

Completely incorrect. The Florida Administrative Code states the following:
68E-27.022 Requirements for Boats Used for Harvesting or Transporting Seafood.
(1) Boats used only for the harvesting or transporting of seafood shall be excluded from the requirements listed under Rules 68E-27.014, 68E-27.015, and 68E-27.016, F.A.C. but shall have facilities for protecting cargo from the sun and weather and from bilge and other contamination. All boats shall be provided with false bottoms and bulkheads fore and aft to prevent cargo from coming in contact with any bilge water, or other contaminants.
(2) Seafood holds, pen boards and shelf boards shall be smooth and constructed to facilitate proper cleaning.
(3) Seafood pens, pen boards and shelf boards shall be shelved where necessary to prevent crushing of the cargo.
(4) Seafood being transported shall be washed to remove excess blood, slime and viscera prior to stowing.
(5) While cargo is on a boat used for harvesting or transporting fresh seafood, finely divided ice or adequate refrigeration shall be used to preserve the quality of the seafood.
(6) Decks, holds, pen boards and shelf boards shall be thoroughly cleaned as soon as the cargo has been discharged, and shall be disinfected when necessary.
Specific Authority 379.407 FS. Law Implemented 379.3313 FS. History–New 9-30-75, Formerly 16B-27.22, 16N-27.22, 16N-27.022, 62N-27.022.

Thus, all stone crabs that are commonly purchased in Florida are NOT frozen by law. Whether they are frozen or not has nothing to do with Florida law. The Florida law has no requirement to freeze stone crab. However, the problem that consumers face at Joe's and other outlets is that sometimes the claws are inadvertently frozen or left soaking in melted ice or they are not cooked properly, etc. Worse, there are probably cases where some outlets buy frozen product. As noted above in other comments, if the crabs don't taste, smell or look correct, send them back, regardless of where you buy them. They should be clean, not fishy and they should be crisp and snap when you bite into them. The meat should not adhere to the shell. Speak up!

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

Where is your local Russian deli and what is the name? Does he use beef intestine?

Sep 14, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

Most of the time I had kishka it was cooked in a roasting pan with meat (such as brisket) and vegetables, sitting in shallow juices/gravy, so part of it was exposed and that part of the skin (intestine) would get crisp. At my local deli they roasted it in a pan with gravy, but still exposed so that the upper portion got crisp.

Sep 14, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

I've been to R&D many times but I never saw kishka there, and I have never heard that they sell authentic kishka before. Are you saying that they it is now available from them?

Sep 14, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

Two great suggestions. I hadn't heard of either one, being a bit north of that area, but now they are on my list. Thanks!

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

Hi EMac,

Thanks for the reply. I can't make any generalizations based on a few bad experiences. After all, they represent a statistically insignificant sample size. I do regret not complaining at the time, however, because I think you are absolutely correct and they would have tried to correct the situation. Stone crab should be sweet and crisp, almost snapping as you bite into the larger part of the claw. It should not be limp or chewy and it must have a very pleasant sweet flavor. If it doesn't meet those criteria, wherever I order it in the future, I will send it back. I'm making myself hungry for stone crab now. :)

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

OK, I'll guess at your intention. :)

Stone Crabs can be overcooked, more likely than undercooked, and this will affect their taste and quality. Once cooked, they are packed. When they are delivered to restaurants, they might or might not be repacked right away, but even after being unpacked and inspected, they are not always served immediately. Thus there are plenty of opportunities to degrade the quality even if the Stone Crab was never technically frozen. They could be packed in ice and partially or completely frozen by the ice. They could sit in liquid for hours or even days. The liquid might come from the crabmeat or melting ice or condensation. If it comes from the meat then we are talking again about poor quality stone crab. If it comes from other sources, you start wondering not only about the effect of water on crabmeat, but you also have to wonder about microbes.

So, all I am saying is that I have eaten stone crab at Joe's that has suffered from one or more of these problems, but I am not suggesting that they haven't done anything about it. I am also not suggesting that they buy frozen product because I couldn't substantiate such a claim. All I know is that a few times during the past few years I ordered stone crab that was not sweet and crisp the way I believe it should be, and the poor quality was likely (IMHO) due to one or more of the scenarios I described.

I'd go back though, even just for the hash browns. :)

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

So I have heard. I'm not sure that I understand your point though. Please explain.

Where can I get Stone crabs in Miami Beach besides Joe's (who served me frozen claws twice)?

I've only been to Joe's about 50 times, so I don't have the ranking of a centenarian (LOL) but I've eaten stone crabs many hundreds of times and to misquote Jim Morrison, "I eat more shellfish any man ever seen!"

My opinion is that there is a lot of variation in individual taste, in quality, in preparation and in storage. From my POV, the best stone crab is crisp, not limp or chewy, sweet and full of flavor, and it doesn't stick to the shell or appear shrunken within the shell. Given that this is what I prefer, I am disappointed when I receive tasteless, limp stone crab meat from any restaurant, and over the past few years I have had exactly that perhaps 3 times at Joe's.

During the prior decade I was quite happy with my crabs almost every time. Having investigated the problem, I am now of the opinion that it is likely that during the last few years Joe's has SOMETIMES either purchased frozen product, frozen their product on purpose or accidentally or left their product sitting around, perhaps in liquid, for much too long. Any of these actions could yield the poor quality I experienced. If you cook stone crab and put 20 pounds of it in a plastic bucket with some ice, chances are that some of the crab will be soaking in liquid for a while. That's not good.

The last time I was at Joe's I had much better quality Jumbo stone crab, but still not close to the best I've ever had. It was a little better than just OK, and I was fine with that. Actually I had eaten so much bread and other food to begin with that my tastebuds may have been compromised.

Joe's stone crab is still worth a visit. And, as more than one person has mentioned, they will try to correct any problems, so if you get stuck with watery and limp crab, let them know about it.

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

From my mom, the best source for such things - her mother used to buy the cows intestines. They were small, not large. I'm guessing that they were 1-3 inches in diameter if my memory serves me well. She had to scrape them under running water, outside and inside, for a long time to get rid of anything that might be unhealthy or just plain ugly. One side was smooth and the inside was not. After cleaning, she stuffed them with flour and chicken fat and seasonings (salt, pepper, paprika, ground onion) and she would put the kishka in with a brisket to roast, sitting in the juices at the bottom of the pan. The end result was that the outside was mostly crispy and not tough. It was a little like crispy chicken skin. Perhaps she turned it in the pan so that it wouldn't dry out too much.

Anyway, it was absolutely delicious with gravy. Mmmmm.

Feb 25, 2014
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Best Three Restaurants in the Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area.

One of my favorite restaurants, perhaps my #1, is Gabose in Lauderhill, an extremely authentic Korean Barbecue spot. Uniquely, they offer about 8 tables with wood charcoal (and other without) for cooking marinated beef (awesome!), pork, chicken and shrimp. They make their own dumplings and most other items, unlike 99% of the other Asian restaurants in the US. This is not to be missed.

Favourite orders at Le Dome (Paris)?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to try it when I get back.

Aug 06, 2012
Buzzy2 in France

Where to eat John Dory fish dinner in Paris?

Depending on your location, I would consider L'Acajou in the 16th. I had the best John Dory (prepared similar to Sole Meuniere) I have ever had there. On the other hand, I had a terrible meal at Le Dome (the seafood platter and the Sole were both average to poor and not freshly prepared.)

Aug 03, 2012
Buzzy2 in France

Paris Le Dome, Rotonde Montparnasse, etc?

I'd be interested in how things went. FYI, I've left some comments about Le Dome (very negative) and suggested other spots for seafood such as Huiteries Regis for Oysters (just for oysters and a couple of other items on the very short menu.)

Aug 03, 2012
Buzzy2 in France

Favourite orders at Le Dome (Paris)?

I've eaten seafood in Paris hundreds of times and I've had better seafood than I had at Le Dome most of the time. I was there last about a year ago and I won't be back. I had the large seafood platter with friends as well as a Sole Meunière. The raw shellfish was OK but the oysters were nowhere near the quality of places like Huiteries Regis. The cooked shrimp was average. I live in Boston and the cooked shrimp at Legal Seafoods is so much better than at Le Dome that you can't even compare it. Fresh, properly cooked large shrimp have a snap to them that lesser shrimp lack. Le Dome's certainly weren't as fresh as they should have been. The lobster and crab tasted as though they had been cooked that morning (or earlier) and the crab, specifically, was so 'not fresh' that it tasted like it had been frozen at some point. I've had better seafood platters with fresher seafood at Le Congres! (For less money too.) And the sole - again, it seemed as if it had been pre-cooked. It didn't come out of the kitchen hot. It wasn't crispy on the outside and light and moist on the inside the way it should have been. I've had MUCH better at L'Acajou. Overall it was a big disappointment.

Aug 03, 2012
Buzzy2 in France

Morton's, Cap Grille and Ruth's Chris. How do you rank them?

I'm shocked. I have been there perhaps 6 or 8 times and had nothing but great food and great service. I am aware that some people prefer their steak rare with a cool center, but I am not one of those. The manager should have come over to you when the steak was returned to your table to make sure that it was OK. I believe that one time there was a problem with something we had ordered and not only did the problem get taken care of, but we were given a free dessert. What happened to you is not acceptable. You should talk to the GM there or someone at corporate.

May 24, 2012
Buzzy2 in Chains

Morton's, Cap Grille and Ruth's Chris. How do you rank them?

"I've had better steaks at good burger joints."

Really? Really???

Please, I've been to RC over 100 times and to Morton's, CG, etc. altogether at least as many times and the best average quality steaks are at RC - for one thing, they use carefully selected prime quality beef. I don't know which burger joints you are going to, but I have a funny feeling that they aren't selling prime beef. LOL

Perhaps you just don't know the difference.

I would not go there for apps, sides or desserts, but the steak is excellent.

May 21, 2012
Buzzy2 in Chains

Is there any traditional Kishka or Stuffed Derma in the US?

Edible casings, including kosher versions, are definitely available and used to make modern day kishka. What is not (easily) available is the actual beef intestine that was used prior to about 1970. The difference between today's edible casings, which impart no flavor at all, and the old style beef intestine, is profound.

May 03, 2012
Buzzy2 in General Topics

Is there any source for Kishka made with beef intestine?

I assumed that the FDA had made the sale of beef intestine illegal due to the issue of cleanliness. My grandmother used to spend hours and hours cleaning it inside and out. If worse gets to worse, I'm going to make it myself, with chicken skin. Think of it as a cross of gribenes and old style kishka from 1965 and earlier.

Apr 30, 2012
Buzzy2 in Kosher

Is there any source for Kishka made with beef intestine?

I'll check it out. Thanks.

Apr 30, 2012
Buzzy2 in Kosher

Is there any source for Kishka made with beef intestine?

I heard about the Romanian Kosher Sausage Company but I haven't tried their product yet. I'll be in Chicago this summer, so I'll try to check it out.

The one characteristic that seems to have disappeared from all kishka is the crispy, chewy, delicious casing. I may have to make my own version from chicken skin. :)

Apr 30, 2012
Buzzy2 in Kosher

Is there any source for Kishka made with beef intestine?

When I was a child I remember eating kishka that differs significantly from anything I've had ever since. It was made with a fairly thick beef intestine, chicken fat, onion, flour and a few other ingredients. It was crisp on the outside and had lots of flavor. It was not like the 'natural' casing on a sausage because it was much thicker. These days, delis mostly sell a version of kishka with either inedible casings (paper, plastic, cellulose) or edible casings made from collagen from processing the skin of cows and other means. I don't know of anyone that makes kishka from hand-cleaned beef intestine, do you?

Apr 29, 2012
Buzzy2 in Kosher