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Easy Irish Brown Bread

How does Udder Milk sell raw buttermilk in New York? Hawthorne Valley Farms is also at Union Square, and they sell raw milk but note they can only do so from their farm and that it would be illegal to bring it to Union Square:

Where do you buy the Odlums?

I came across a NY Times article about buttermilk, and they seem to indicate that even Kate's cultured "real" buttermilk tastes better than the cultured skim milk sold by other brands:

In seeming to talk specifically about Kate's, "the liquid that remains is buttermilk: naturally defatted milk, with microscopic traces of butter that leave a haunting, rich flavor and a creamy mouth feel. Real buttermilk contains natural diacetyl, the same compound that makes melted butter so aromatic and infuses some Chardonnays with buttery flavors."

I'd be curious to do a taste test comparing them.

28 minutes ago
Scott_R in Recipes

Easy Irish Brown Bread

Well, clabbered whole milk and buttermilk from clabbered cream are pretty much the same thing, except for the fat content.

As far as Kate's go, presumably that's because of the laws regarding raw milk and pasteurization. In NY, for example, you can't buy raw milk except at the actual dairy farm--the dairy can't even sell their own milk off-site at a farmer's market. Since Kate's buy's milk and cream from farmers, presumably it has to arrive pasteurized, precluding true clabbering.

BTW, I just noticed that King Arthur Flour sells "Irish-Style Wholemeal Flour." They note: "Bake Ireland’s signature brown breads with our Irish-style wholemeal flour.
Coarsely ground from red whole wheat, this soft flour is our version of the whole grain flours used to bake traditional Irish breads.
You can easily use it in any non-yeast bread recipe calling for wholemeal flour, but it’s ideal for Irish brown breads. Those dense, complex-tasting loaves have just a few ingredients, so it’s key to use flour that imparts flavor and texture.
Our best Irish bread tip: Slather on plenty of rich salted butter."

about 6 hours ago
Scott_R in Recipes

Easy Irish Brown Bread

That's soured milk, not buttermilk. It'll work as a source of acid to activate the baking soda but it's not a true substitute. Here's the important difference: taste it. Good quality, "real" buttermilk tastes great; it's a refreshing drink that's akin to thinned yogurt (not really, but that's the closest thing I can compare it to). Soured (i.e., with vinegar or lemon juice added) milk tastes... not so great--it's borderline drinkable. Anything you bake is only as good as the ingredients you use.

Re: "real"buttermilk. Somewhat of an oversimplification, but buttermilk originally came about as the liquid left over from buttermaking. This can be from making sweet butter, so the cream isn't soured, or clabbered butter, where the cream sours aka clabbers (originally, on its own, without added culture, and this is very much NOT the same as cream going bad). If you find "real" buttermilk, such as Kate's or something from a local dairy, it's better tasting than the standard stuff, which is cultured skim milk. I don't know if there's a real difference WHEN BAKING in using "real" buttermilk versus cultured skim, though the former definitely tastes better when you drink it straight.

BTW: easier way to measure out the ratio for souring milk: add one tablespoon of lemon juice or vinegar to a measuring cup, then top off until it's one cup (what you did except reversed).

about 11 hours ago
Scott_R in Recipes


I've always bought by the slice...
I have never been impressed by BD's pies or cakes. I bought a cheesecake from them once that was essentially tasteless... and a pie that almost was, though I can't recall what it was. A fruit pie of some sorts. 4&20's, though have been rock solid in quality.


Four and Twenty Blackbirds just reopened their Orient popup pie shop.



Apparently, we have to question the provenance of ramps found in markets and restaurants:

Maureen's Kitchen - Suffolk


Slow Cooker Mango Tapioca Pudding

Sounds more like a coconut-pineapple pudding with mango, considering that the pudding has no mango *in* it, just some *on* it.

Apr 19, 2015
Scott_R in Recipes

Looking for breakfast, Kips Bay area and surrounding

Well, it's been quite a while since I started this thread, and I will once again find myself in the area on a weekday morning.

Is it still a breakfast wasteland? Doing a map search, I'm still seeing the same (lack of) choices, going by my criteria in the OP.

Apr 05, 2015
Scott_R in Manhattan

Having breakfast on Long Island

The Boulevard Bean, basically across the street, is closing today.

Having breakfast on Long Island

Just went to Salt Air Cafe recently.

The place is tiny: 3 sets of four-seat tables (each four is a pair of twos) is the sum total of seating inside. Menu is modest, though the specials menu is a significant supplement to the printed menu.

Had a veggie frittata (roasted beets, butternut squash, rutabaga, swiss & arugula) with a side of home fries. Very tasty; home fries weren't done crispy (a personal preference) but I hadn't specified as such, and they were nicely seasoned and enjoyable.

Chicken Carnival - North Merrick

I wonder where they source their ground beef from.

Also, their website says "the health conscious chicken chain." I guess the "chain" part is optimism, but I'm not so clear on where the "health conscious" part is with a place that focuses on fried chicken, wings, and burgers. "Conscious" as in "we're aware that such a thing as healthy exists"?

Belgian Waffle Irons, Things I didn't know... Until Now

We also had dentistry before novocaine.

Mar 03, 2015
Scott_R in Cookware

Need a vegan restaurant on Long Island

Unfortunately, most of the vegan (or vegetarian) places on LI have closed over the past decade or so. For those that have good vegan offerings, try Tula Kitchen (distinct from the nearby Tullulah's),
has a separate vegan/vegetarian section on the menu, and vegan selections noted in other parts of the menu.

Ariana Cafe in Huntington, with a vegan menu:

Tiger Lily Cafe in Port Jeff,

The Orient Bethpage

Except that BYOB is illegal in New York.

Having breakfast on Long Island

Thanks for the heads-up.

Having breakfast on Long Island

I had a very good "Texan Toad In a Hole" there the other day. Outside the usual thing I order and quite tasty.

Use the oven or slow cooker for brisket ?

I was looking into this topic, as I was debating whether to do a brisket in a slow cooker versus an oven for an upcoming holiday meal, since I was also going to do a turkey in the oven and needed the space.

The issue of a slow cooker getting too hot piqued my interest, so I did a little experiment, putting hot water (140 degree) into my slow cooker (a 6qt Crock Pot) and letting it go on Low.

The water temperature increased VERY slowly, going up to about 180 after almost 2 hours (thereby, I think, stressing the importance of preheating liquids before putting them in).

I'm wondering, therefore, how much of a substantive difference there is between a slow cooker and oven, temperaturewise. Obviously the liquid temperature within the pan in the oven can't pass 212, but the air temp that contacts non-submerged meat will be quite a bit hotter (though of course the air is less conductive).

Complicating things is that I've read that it's best to make brisket in advance, then reheat it a day or two later; supposedly, this improves the flavor. Ironically, they call for reheating slow-cooker brisket in the oven, which certainly takes away from the space-savings on the day you need it. I wonder if there's any reason I can't reheat the brisket in the slow cooker.

Feb 23, 2015
Scott_R in Home Cooking

Oven roasting bag

Is there any reason to use these, as opposed to sealing a roasting pan with foil?

I was considering it in the context of a brisket.

Feb 20, 2015
Scott_R in Cookware

Chicken's Road on Merrick Road in Wantagh

They'd closed because of a fire back in December; yesterday was their soft reopening, with the grand reopening tomorrow.

Maple Sugaring Day (E. Setauket, LI)

Coming to Benner's Farm on Feb 21.

The Orient Bethpage

Good stuff, chicken feet.

The Orient Bethpage

What time did you go? How crowded was it?

Stew Leonards Supermarket coming to Farmingdale


Anyone familiar with Marshalls Creek Spices in Oceanside?

I haven't confirmed this personally, but I was told by someone else that Marshall's Creek just buys and resells from Restaurant Depot (they saw them stocking up there).

Lil' Left Coast - Merrick

Based on the above, I went back.

I also ordered the tuna banh mi; I don't know if the the one in the pic above was a special for that night, as what I received was smaller than the one pictured).

Nevertheless, it was very tasty, and certainly a counterpoint to the disastrous torte grande I had. This has at least balanced the scale, and I'll be going back a third time.

What really goes on in the kitchen.

Thanks for the link. Nassau County doesn't put their inspection records online, at least not the last I'd heard; I wonder how the site gets the information.

Cinquo de Mayo, Calverton, Long Island

Much better than a cross-Sound bridge (really: no irony intended).

Bacon Festival -Coram

And the award for the Most Ironic Feature at Bacon Fest: "Healthy Wraps"!

Having breakfast on Long Island

Sorry, was reading on the iPhone and missed the attribution.