thanks -- i might see if the hotel can arrange something like this for me. if not, i'll skip.

don't worry, i'm very well behaved. sit, eat, smile, pay in cash. :-)

is this place do-able for english speakers? or would that not work.

like, do they have a set menu i can just point at (or order ahead of time through a hotel concierge)?

thanks

i believe cats are a problem outside because they are driving some wildlife / songbirds to the point of extinction.

they are a problem inside because they consume an unnatural amount of (farmed) fish.

i think it would be a lot more meaningful if this country gave up / banned something mainstream that is environmentally unfriendly -- like cats, suvs, etc.

maybe hong kong island can ban gas guzzling SUVs and feel proud of themselves.

shark suffering - i don't care

shark extinction / ecological imbalance - i care, but my very moderate consumption won't make a difference, and is offset by other "good deeds" ... like not having a cat.

>> Sharks are already over harvested.

fair point. i don't consume much of the stuff, and i don't consume it often, so i can live with myself consuming it on rare occasion. probably similar to how most people feel about their sushi consumption.

>> I'd have no issue if the entire animal was being used but its not.

i don't understand why this is a big problem -- the fin is apparently the only part that has value. john dory is another type of fish with a low yield of meat -- do you think people should shy away from that as well?

if we're trying to be more ecologically sensitive, can we also ban house cats?

1. don't do it so much they grow extinct / irreparably harm their ecosystem / whatever.

2. if you're going to dump the shark back into the sea, euthanize it first.

>> I wouldn't consider shark fin soup a category of noodle soup.

I wouldn't either -- but that is still the best description i can think of in describing it to people who haven't had it before.

>> mature chicken

can you elaborate on this? is there a particular place to get "mature" chicken? Why is this different from just normal chicken?

>> I doubt you'll have any luck getting a restaurant locally to prepare the stuff for you

i'm really just interested in learning to cook the stuff myself. alongside other delicacies of various cuisines of various time periods. and shark fin seemed more ethical than giant sea turtle... (just kidding)

so then some other sea creatures will eat the rest of the shark.

similar to how i try to give any leftovers i am not going to eat to homeless people.

i actually only want to talk about legal issues. ethics issues on the internet usually just become flame wars.

lots -- and i think this is more of an ethical problem than eating shark fin, as the animals you list are primarily herbivores.

i'm sure there is a browser plug-in you can find that will just replace words you don't like with words that you do.

i didn't say that -- i do think they should eat.

but then expect to be eaten.

by me.

if done responsibly, it wouldn't upset an ecosystem.

some ethicists believe it would be good to rid the world of all carnivores. i'm not arguing this, i just think it is an interesting read:

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/...

sharks will barbarically eat thousands of fish over their lifespan. if their life comes to an end in a "barbaric" way, i don't see the problem with that.

there is still the ecological problem -- but moderation / responsible shark harvesting could also be a solution to that.

this thread is about legality, not ethics -- and as both are banned under california law, they should be part of the same conversation.

i'm happy you like foie gras and not shark fin -- good for you.

shark fin soup is the most delicious noodle soup in the world. the texture of the fin is far superior to any other type of asian or western noodle. and the depth of flavor in the broth is divine -- and i'm not sure more traditional noodles have the structure to stand up to the strong broth.

i believe people who think it is "completely tied into status" usually haven't had it -- or at least haven't had a good version of it. anyway, there are a lot of people who think most "foodies" are actually more concerned with status -- albeit the ones on CH certainly do it in a more informed way. so i don't think it is fair to dismiss it as merely related to "status".

there is an ecological problem with shark fin harvesting -- definitely. though there is also arguably an ecological problem with producing chicken mcnuggets. how about for every bowl of shark fin soup i eat, i'll forgo two months of chicken mcnuggets?

i don't have an ethical problem with the "barbarism" -- given the violent nature of sharks, this seems like justice to me.

finally, much like i think the foie gras ban was successful because ~80% of californians were too poor/too uncultured to be eating it in the first place, the shark fin ban was successful because ~80% of californians had zero interest in traditional chinese food. but more mainstream foods with ethical or ecological problems certainly aren't being banned.

cotogna is definitely a good steak -- better than any i've found at steak houses. finishing it alone at least could be an adventure. i enjoyed it, and would consider doing it again.

farina has better pasta than cotogna, but their meat entrees are not as good as those at a steak house..

harris' bar is perfect for dining alone. bobo's bar is also okay for dining alone, but more just for interesting/fun sides.

i'll give keen's a try next time i'm in nyc.

i don't make it to san jose often, but i'll keep it in mind if i'm down there and craving prime rib.

i was also surprised i wasn't able to make a reservation at aragawa a month ahead of time. my concierge might have been incompetent, though. i might try with a different one.

regardless, i'll report back on what steak house(s) i end up at in tokyo.

i will report back if i make it there before the season ends.

well, i couldn't get a reservation, so i can assemble whatever hypothetical menu i choose, right? :-)

but yeah, i was interested in a caviar, crab, beef meal with a nice bottle of bordeaux -- i thought that sounded pretty awesome. no idea if i'd really be willing to pay the price for it, though.

cotogna probably has the best steak in sf, but certainly not cheap at $95. it is for 2 or 3 people, but i was able to finish it alone (but just barely, and the staff there were pretty surprised).

alfred's ribeye @ $55 is the best value -- also big enough for 2. the creamed spinach goes well with it.

harris' has nice steaks -- probably porterhouse ($55) medium rare is your best bet. i strongly prefer the lounge over the dining room -- the live music is nice. lamb chops there can be decent too. i've been here more than any of the others.

bobo's can be a fun place. food is good, not perfect, but good starters/sides/desserts if you don't think too critically.

i also like house of prime rib, though i fear by mentioning this place i might just be implying low standards :-)

also enjoyed a veal chop at bob's steaks+chops -- it is worth a try, though i'm sure it doesn't hold up particularly well to some of the top french places in europe or asia.

slightly off topic, but chez panisse downstairs on a night when they are serving lamb can also be very good. similarly, i've had a nice composed ribeye / eggplant dish at keiko's nob hill.

i haven't had many steaks in other cities, so don't have too much a basis for comparison, though. plan on trying places in my travels though, so if you have suggestions, please let me know.

have you had japanese steak at other places? or just aragawa? if other places, how did aragawa compare?

yikes -- i better get on it then.

i've had good luck with their desserts -- especially their crepes.

i don't think the food is particularly interesting though -- most appealing thing to me is they are open later than most other places.

I suspected that would be the case, so haven't tried much japanese beef in sf. i tried a ~$70 kobe-style steak at bourbon steak -- not great. also tried ~$30 kobe-style beef at juban (yakiniku) in japantown -- okay for the price.

I do like "regular" steaks in sf a lot though -- alfred's, harris', cotogna, bobo's, etc.

i had a japanese beef dish at the late alex in the wynn in vegas a couple years ago -- it was very good. i remember it being at the same level as the kobe beef course at kanda in tokyo.

i've also tried yakiniku jumbo in tokyo -- i thought it was good, but not really materially better than the "regular" steaks i've had in sf.

do you remember if they had caviar on the menu at aragawa, and if so what it was priced at?

yep -- also from the bay area :-)

have you tried any of the japanese beef offerings at alexander's / 5a5 / harris'?

i haven't, but i'd be interested to hear how they compare if you have.

also, did aragawa have a menu, or did they verbally tell you items / prices?

devastated i missed this -- mandarin gourmet was always our celebration destination for a large group of friends in college.

glad some dishes get CH approval.

is there a season for live crayfish?

does ranch 99 always/usually/rarely/never have them?

thanks.

oh, good point. i had thought early june would be an easy time to make reservations, but i guess weak yen more than makes up for that.

I've been enjoying these two cookbooks recently -- lots of classic french crayfish recipes in either one:

Great Chefs of France -- Anthony Blake
Paul Bocuse: The Complete Recipes

thanks -- i was actually going to post to ask if anyone knew where to get them in the bay area...

interesting -- thanks. so about 2x the price of dons de la nature.

do you remember if there was a choice between "premium" and "super premium" beef?

i've only seen the "course" menu referred in the michelin guide -- so not reliable.

looks like aragawa is booked solid for the week i'm there in early june.

i had no idea that place was so popular -- most reports i've seen of the place have made it sound pretty empty.

so glad you enjoyed jai yun -- very special place imo.

that birthday cake sounds awesome / hilarious!

i also think jai yun is right up there with the best i've found in china -- glad you felt the same way.

a very fair criticism of jai yun, imo.