Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

No doubt, the tone of my first line contributed to your perception of my last line. A poor choice on my part.

I agree that the revised Bittman recipe makes quite a nice loaf.
In addition, I genuinely recommend experimentation in pursuit of the "perfect" bread. Even at the expense of a few lousy loaves.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking

Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

I have been stepping a bit off the line between Lahey and "5 minutes". But I think I've conquered the overproofing and overhandling problems now. So I am definitely ready to try changing the cooking temperature. I've even gotten advice to go lower -- preheat to 450F, bake at 400, then 375. I'll pick one and see how it works in my oven.

I don't know how, with 2/3 KA white whole wheat at 5.3 oz per cup (I weighed it), I don't have a water problem. It's a mystery.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking

Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

Thank you for your warm welcome and for your advice and support. I do apologize for repeating to you what you had said to me. I understand that could be read as an attack, and shall not do it again.

I have followed my first perfect Lahey loaf with experimentation in search of my "dream loaf". Yeast rate, proofing temperature, hydration, baking temperature. I've read all kinds of useful experience and advice here and elsewhere, for which I am very grateful. I take your point that I am perhaps varying too many variables at once.

Leaving out salt WAS a silly mistake, wasn't it? And perhaps you are correct, that when a loaf is still flat and gasless after the specified 40 minutes, one should not wait in vain hope of the now dormant and unfed yeast somehow turning that lump into something edible.

I think I have conquered my over-proofing problem by using even less yeast and controlling temperature during the long fermentation. My most recent loaf (http://familynutritionist.blogspot.com/2008/05/no-knead-bread-fifth-attempt-qualified.html) is closer to what I want. A very helpful person visited my blog to suggest baking temperatures to help make a less damp loaf.

I do love experimentation, and have learned loads from my lesser loaves. And from other bakers. It's a lot of fun.

Thanks again for your good wishes. I'm so close to the bread I want, and think I'll get there in the next couple of loaves.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking

Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

Hey! I'm not a complete idiot, OK? I've been using less-than-Lahey quantities of yeast all along. Since the dough *STILL* gets overproofed, I've been adjusting the yeast ever downward. And getting the dough to a cooler place sooner. Like inside the fridge. I think I've finally gotten that part of it right (see above)

I also got picture-perfect results from my first loaf of Lahey-style bread (http://familynutritionist.blogspot.com/2008/04/no-knead-bread-first-attempt.html) but have a different flavor in mind. From your winemaking experience, you know fermentation complexity depends on culture, temperature, nutrition, and time. It didn't happen in 20 hours.

I think the "Artisan Bread" approach of letting the bread ferment in the fridge for up to a week produces much more flavor. So that's the direction I'm going. But I won't be following any of their recipes to the letter.

I'm experimenting, learning from my mistakes, and learning from the experiences of others. I'd like to suggest you try it.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking

Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

I've been observing the dough's behavior, and adjusting the yeast downward. But I think the important thing is just not letting it sit on the counter for so long! Over 12 hours, as Lahey/Bittman recommend, is just too long.

I had some success with my most recent attempt
http://familynutritionist.blogspot.com/2008/05/no-knead-bread-fifth-attempt-qualified.html
I made the dough stiffer and less delicate, slowed down the ferment, and formed the loaf more gently. The result was -- I had bread.

When I bake a "regular" loaf on the bread stone, it takes 20 minutes, at 500F. But a "wet" loaf takes an hour in a preheated casserole. So I'll be playing with baking times and temperatures. One of these days, I'll develop some kind of crusty sandwich loaf or roll that will work for me.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking

Do you like no-knead bread better than kneaded bread?

I'm just not having much luck. I may have to actually go out and get the book, which is not really my style.

Or MAYBE I am just overproofing and overhandling the dough. My Fleishmann's yeast takes off like a rocket, even though I always use less. And room temperature is 70F here these days.

FamilyNutritionist in Home Cooking