I do not consider you personally responsible.
Yeah, I agree the venue is stunning, the menu organization a little peculiar and the dishes themselves hit and miss.
re: menu organization ...
this was kind of annoying ... since we didnt get great guidance from the waitress, although admittedly this would have not been a big issue if not for the food issues of some of the people in the group.
re: food ...
--i think everyone liked the BRUSSELS SPROUTS ... even the person who "didnt eat fried foods" and lobbied against ordering it. somewhere i've eaten recently did it better ... BARBACO? -- but quite happy with it (an dso was the non-friend food eater ... i assured him it would be done with a deft touch)
--the LAMB TARTAR was very good. great combination of strong flavors. reminded me a bit of BARBACO. contender for table favorite.
--the CARROT small plate was also fantastic ... may have been the table favorite. reminded me a bit of BOX BELL (high fat)
--there was some dish with oil and avocado ... it was "cynically tasty" [avocado + more fat] ... but I dont recall what the description of the dish was. it could have been beets, it could have been with hamachi. i was involved in an intense conversation about BITCOIN and not paying much attention to the food.
--there was one other veg small plate which was really good. maybe the TURNIP one? again i was a bit distracted
--the large size chicken dish was only so-so ... sort of weird flavor combo but the chicken itself was good. i would have been unhappy if it were my entree, but perfectly happy to consume 1/4th share, as we were sharing all dishes
--the SWORDFISH dish was not so good ... we were all surprised to see a whole fish served rather than a fillet/steak. never went back to look at this description of this dish.
they ran out of the QUINCE dessert which was by far the most interesting. the chocolate cake mit schlag was good but not out of this world. the "candy plate" was pretty good but of course some of the items not really sharable ... so i didnt get to try some of the more interesting things on the plate.
--i was quite irritated over the MANDARIN + BARHI DATE "dessert" [which consisted of 3 small mandarins which were VERY MEDIOCRE and say ~8dates which also were so-so.
one of my associates thought "oh its a new resto ... they might screws some stuff up" ... i said they had deep chops in the food business so problems were likely to be on the operational side not the food prep ... i think that guess was borne out. they did run out of a few things and there were problems making change and the waitress did not know a few things [nothing problematic] ... what ended up working in our favor was they underestimated the wait ... we were seated in less than the hour estimate ... some new restaurants fail dramatically in this aspect, like TONY PIZZA which kept us waiting like 2:15 after estimating ~45min.
so the top dishes were really good, a couple of them were so-so or not worth the $$$ to me ... but only the plate of fruit left a bitter taste.
not bad but BOX BELL was better (although our tab at BB was more than 50% higher than PENROSE)
the clientele had a high fraction of rather self-involved people ... like say the NOE VALLEY WHOLE FOODS ... not very friendly although fairly lively buzz. the resto staff was great and it was nice to be out at place with
In fairness, I wasnt expecting to try 20 dishes either.
>I guess after some high octane at the Tornahole,
i havent been in a while, but i think the last time i was there, it was $5.50. it might not be your style of burger, but it's not really fair to compare it to a $12-$18 burger.
i think a fair comparison is say to SUPERDUPER
that all being said, i do believe the last time i was there, it didnt seem "as good" ... again more than 1yr ago.
we may have had something else, but picking from the online menu:
>WHITE BEAN & ANCHOVY TOAST
>WARM POTATO SALAD
>ROASTED CELERY ROOT
surely we were not the first -- given the menu -- to have made this request.
we were lingering/chatting after finishing dessert and coffee and they did a pretty professional job advising us "no hurry, but we do have another reservation" ... i know some people feel one has an absolute right to the table they have been seated at but i think your rights diminish quickly after you have finished eating in a crowded resto.
>2. Cucumber with Spicy Garlic Sauce
>5. Five Spice Rolled Bean Curd Sheets
>9. Mouth-Watering Spicy Organic Chicken (Bone-In)
>10. Sliced Bacon-Cut Pork with Spicy Garlic Sauce
>88. West-Style 1000 Chili Pepper Fish Fillet in Chicken Broth
>135. China Village Specialty Lamb seasoned with Cumin
>70. Country-Style Spicy Pork Spareribs
>191. Spicy Charred Stir-Fried Cabbage
>192. Spicy Shoestring Potatoes Saut�ed Country-Style
>71. Dong Bo Braised Duck
>185. Hot Bean Curd (Ma Po Tofu) special ordered with beef
>Hand made seafood noodles
>Steamed fish with ginger/onion
>Lobster with chilies
i havent been to CV a huge number of times, but this was the best meal i have had there ... 20dishes.
want to thank the Hyperbowler for the invitation, and MWong for the taste of the dessert wine. enjoyed the evening, the company as well.
KUNG FU XLB are pretty good ... thin wrappers and flavorful soup. A couple of them collapsed when being picked up, but other than that, those are the best I've had in NYC (an better than Shanghai Bund, and some of the cheaper places in the Richmond/Sunset).
I have not gone to any high end XLB places in NYC, comparable to YANK SING.
My friends said they could takes the difference between the PORK and the CRAB+PORK but they pretty much tasted the same to me (at KF-XLB).
(Parenthetically, the RAVA DOSA I had at the GANESH TEMPLE CANTEER near KF-XLB is the best Dosa I have had in the United States. The masala/potato filling which was served on the side was good, but not great)
Went to MAISON PREMIERE HAPPY HOUR:
Then went to BK VANESSA DUMPLING:
BTW, ECC BLACKHEART cocktail was probably better than MP's. The guys at ECC were prefessional, but it was clear they wanted to shutdown on a slow night. The fellow at the door was friendly tho. I think it is a good date spot.
I had some kind of variation on a MOSCOW MULE called a MOSCOW MOLLY at the GREENPOINT PENCIL FACTORY. I liked both the drink and the space ... although the drink basically seemed to be a well-execuated MOSCOW MULE.
Dinner at CAFE TRISKELL (Queens/Astoria) was pretty good. I was catching up with some friends and sitting at the bar wasnt the most comfortable, so I didnt pay as much attention to the food, but it was good value for money. My least favorite item actually was the savory crepe. The few MOULES I tried were good and the broth very good ... very "dip worthy" [with the pre-dinner bread]. We were picking which dessert crepes to have, when the proprietor announced we were taking too long and he knew what he was going to make us ... he ended up making two of the simplest and I wanted to try a fruit-based one, but they ended up being very good and a lighter option also turned out to be better. These dessert crepes were definitely executed better than any others I have had. note: one of the friends I came with has eaten here 50-100 times, so the proprietor knew her ... which is probably yhe only reason he took those "liberties" ... but it was still kinda odd. Although certainly he had no motive like an upsell as they were probably the cheapest options. I would have made up my mind quickly had CREPE SUZETTE had been on the menu ... now I am kind of hankering for one of those before I leave.
Hi, thanks for those suggestions ... those look great!
I'm sure to hit a few of those and will advise about my experiences.
Hi, I am in NYC for 10days staying at my friend's base at Whyte and 3rd in Williamsburg, while he is out of the country.
I've done a bunch of research on "destination" food outings all over -- Arthur Ave, Flushing/Jackson Hts, South BK etc ... but I was wondering if anybody had do-not-miss/best-of-breed recs in that area -- say 5-6 blocks radius -- for quick lunch/late-night-snack/to go/cafe to hang out etc.
Specifically looking for cheapish/modest solo-friendly stuff ... pizza slices, burger, good sandos, tacos, shawarma, gyros. For "ethnic" places, if they have lunch plate or small items like steam table or order of dumplings, dosa etc ... that is all fine, but I cant do "family style" by myself or count on friends with "day jobs" to join me [although I did go to NEEROB BENGALI FOOD once and eat ~$45 in food by myself]. Similarly pizza place with only "whole pies" not ideal.
Also any recs for cafes to do a little laptop work [I have my own wifi, so that isnt needed]. It would be nice if it were a friendly and good people watching type spot ... ultomately I dont care about the quality of the coffee that much. Maybe a bar with decent food/HH that is also friendly?
Two additional things:
--And, I know it can be annoying when someone ask for advice and doesnt return feedback, so I'm happy to provide feedback if I have something meaningful to say.
Hope to finally make it to LUGAR for lunch on this trip after it getting
I went to ALI ROTI after finding DAVID BRISKET closed a minute before I arrived ... ALI was out of most things because this was just after the W.I. festival on NOSTRAND around labor day, so I didnt get to analyze too many items.
The ROTI I had was pretty good but frankly by fav item was the PEANUT PUNCH. AA DOUBLE SHOP right near there is also worth checking out ... ultra cheap.
Yeah, I can see what you are getting at with the SIN comparison.
During NYC site visits, I sometimes switch from the A to the C train there and in between run out and grab a snack. Although the first time, due to a miscommunication, I ended up walking from there to Grand Army Plaza with and 80lbs of stuff -- which sucked in the heat -- but I did find a number of interesting snacking places on the way.
Hi, thanks for you input.
It looks like our bandwidth for complicated logistics is limited so we just pulled the trigger for party of 10 at BHATTI ... they were able to give us a reservation, they are ok with BYO, probably some flexibility for last minute expansion etc.
I am quite interested in analyzing the TUNDE KA KABOB at C. NAWAB and maybe the PHALL at MALAI MARKE, so I appreciate those suggestions.
Hi, does anybody have an opinion of CHOTE NAWAB vs BHATTI?
I'm interested in a food and value-for-food comparison but I need to add a couple of details:
I'm putting together a dinner for some disparate groups of my friends while I am in town. So it needs to be a place that can accomodate 8-13, either via a reservation or high turn over and general flexibility/capacity ... we're also aiming for 8ish on a Sat night [11/16].
This, along with not going to a major sticker shock place [let's say under $40 per person] I understand will necessitate some compromises, but this dinner really has friends-before-food as a priority ... obviously a BYO place buys us a bit of a cushion for food spending, and that would be fine.
For comparison, on my last Site Visit, more or less the same group went to CAFE NARGIS, an UZBEK place near Brighton Beach/South BK. Everyone was delighted with the dinner ther [the desserts werent great but the main apps and main dishes were good and the logistics we also good].
Default plan now is BHATTI, as some of my in-town friends have been there and like it.
I'd be happy to hear other suggestions ... most of the attendees are in Central BK and some coming down from Central Park West area, so Flushing, BX, NJ are not the best options.
I probably should have forked a different thread for this. Also I can report back ... I know it can be annoying when advice is taken but feedback is not given. If it makes a diff, about half the group are Indians/Bengalis.
If you are asking about Firehouse, they have a ~6in diameter mini pizza but no slices ... at least circa late Sept 2013.
The 6" pie is like $7 so it's a bit expensive and certainly not a reasonable way to try 2-3 different topping options.
I recall making a quick calculation the size one up was something like 30% cheaper per square inch.
The size one up is also eatable as a single meal, but it's much more $$ than a quick slice ... but at least you are not still hungry.
So I think this place is ok "for a meal" or "with a friend" but not "for a snack" or "to sample a few different flavors".
Pizza itself is decent and they were pretty friends (they warned me the small was small).
FYI, A Slice of NY in the South Bay has garlic knots.
I texted a picture of some abominations-slices from a place on Bedford in Williamsburg to some friends ... i think one hand ranch dressing on it ... and got some concerned/upset responses :-)
>sounds like they were influenced by Detroit style to me.
Sliver also borrowed that from Cheeseboard before the split.
BTW, I had a 10 or 15min conversation with that fellow Tony at Capo's some time back ... he is really excited to talk about pizza. He had a lot of say about Detroit and St. Louis pizza, among the more unusual pizza options. Anyway, if you spot him, he seems happy to talk to interested parties.
I dont think grandma slices are connected to detroit.
Most Grandma slices arent that thick. I thought the key ingredient was anchovies in the sauce, but that does not appear to be the case. And I dont recall seeing any with meat toppings.
They are one of my favorites of the "standard" NYC Slice House offerings ... the tend to be a little smaller for one, so can try more variety ... will be nice to be able to get one out here.
>I'll probably try the cheese like psb.
Even the "greasy meat" topping slices here are fairly light ... the sausage will probably be my standard single slice here. I might make the cheese slice a second slice option.
BTW, I dislike PAULINE PIZZA too. Although the last time I was there it seemed better. Although maybe that was related to my associate picking up the check.
Anyone had the cheese slice at SLICERS? It was really good ... if you are looking for the foldable NY-style slice ... I remember these from ARINELL in the 70s. Today ARNINELL's quality control is too variable.
Liked the cheese blend in particular.
Yes, walkable ... I did it in suit shoes. Dont get run over by a hipster on a fixie blowing through and intersection ... cliche but I had a near miss. You'd think with glasses that large she could see me ...
Interesting people watching, even if they may not be watching you.
As my associate who moved to that area from Carroll Gardens -- and regrets it -- says, "I live in Disneyland."
>peanut and sugar covering.
the outside was a bit thick but the total mass of sesame filling was pretty high, so i think the ratio worked out fine.
Just as an aside:
So I get the sense they restos are sort of catering in-community ... i think if they even had the sort of one line descriptions you see in say indian restos, that kind of "out reach" would be a help.
>The scene is lot livelier in a public library than people
for those in San Francisco ... the new Potrero Hill lib just seems to be a DVD rental facility now ... while I've seen quite a few psychologically damaged persons need to be managed at the Excelsior branch ... like you hear them screaming in the bathrooms as the staff tries to throw them out.
I stopped in today a few hours after the DEEM SUM get together so I wasnt super hungry and just looking for a slice ... did they have slices previously? Today my only option was a 6" pizza ... it was pretty well done and the ingredients were good, but it was $7, which is a bit pricey for a "slice".
I'd be happy to get larger pizzas from here, but usually when I am in that area, I am just passing through or running errands, so probably not looking for a sit down large pizza, so not a great fit for me.
I wish I'd read about HEARTBAKER before I was in those parts.
>I truly cannot imagine going into a place of business ...
You used strong words, so I will too:
Using a laptop etc. is an obvious and visible matter and if the *owner of the business* doesnt like it, they can intervene in an appropriate matter, including:
so a cafe which does not change their policy after some time has implicitly condoned this.
sure, it's possible some patrons abuse this and it is "triicky" for a business owner to do anything there other than wish they would go away .. but guess what, i've gotten crappy drinks/pastries from some baristas and i suck it up eventhough i wish it life had unfolded differently.
now i have come across people having long business meeting by cell/skype phone in cafe, and i do find that annoying but the business nature of this was incidental ... it was the "footprint" of the behavior which was inappropriately large, not the content.
[and cafes in some neighborhood are clearly going to know ahead of time what they are in for in terms of laptop users ... just as much as a cafe in a college town will get students ... and i'm not sure what difference it makes if the student is working on his computer or reading Othello ... are they turning a business in to their private library/den?
Again, abuse is possible, but as i wrote above "life is complicated" and it's not reasonable to castigate all laptop users. The poacher of the handicapped table is not a "morally complicated" case ... the question there is not one of right/wrong, but "how to deal with it".
Yes, I agree you can reasonably print out individual POSTS but THREADS are not reasonably formatted.
This thread has about 2000words aside from the initial long post and those take up 8 pages they way they are printed. And some long threads are much worse. And with all the white space, printing 2pp per sheet gets a bit undesirably small.
As far as I know, one could cut-and-paste a *single post* into an editor, such as emacs (it is the best editor), but at indentation in threads isnt print-friendly.
Again, in emacs, I could write a loop to re-justify, but this isnt straightforward.
CH *has* a PRINT button, but it is not implemented reasonably ... like in this thread, some of the posts are printed three words per line ... fortunately it is a 6 word post, but obviously that doesnt work for meaty entries. It's unfortunate time is spent on useless features rather than useful ones.
I think this would either be very difficult to do [like you will probably have to discount old reviews at a different rate on different boards] or would most likely suffer from garbage in/garbage out.
I would personally settle for just a sane way to PRINT threads ... for example some people have done nice "Best Of" lists for their home territories. Or am I missing something?
The best travel advice I've received here was by engaging in an active dialog rather than "scraping" [although i have done that too] ... I think if you are specific and signal that your have done your research, you get pretty good answers.
And of course there is the cynical way of getting feedback on the internet, by posting something that is wrong and waiting to be corrected :-)
>crazy looking woman they had in an ad awhile back is gone.
> I don't think there's another city in the country
in fact NY is basically better than SF except for SF being closer to the sierras and in spite of all the whining, the weather is better and we have nicer sunsets. NYC is an alpha city and SF is a toy ... a nice toy, but a toy.
i mean i think it's almost more honest to say "but that's not fair to compare with ~10x the size" rather than "that's debatable".
er, have you been to Chico Grill.
Mr. Viper Lush:
I think you had a nice, measured response, which reflects the fact that "life is complicated".
I think the OP's scenario is easy ... the table was marked "for h'capped guests", the OP's associate had obvious mobility issues, the singleton was overconsuming space entitled to, he was rude.
But again, life is complicated. The response "you are in a public place" is obviously too glib ... I too was thinking about all the bitching about cell phones ... or there are also the controversies over children in restos, dogs at park etc. Those conversations dont end with "well you are in a public place ... anything goes."
I think many impossible-to-anticipate details matter and "blame" is not a zero sum ... this fellow the OPs describes may have been entitled to some quiet but wasnt entitled to be rude ... I've been the person working in a cafe, and when the someone asked to share a table, I made room for them but was a bit annoyed when they later had two friends join them and not only were they loud, but I hardly had space for my stuff. I kinda seethed and put up with the "chatter" but in another case where someone kept banging the table, I asked them to stop, as I was writing [with a pen, not on kbd] ... rather that taking a stand on rights, i'd look at the golden rule/categorial imperative/kaldor-hicks efficiency ... whatever.
On the other hand, on another occasion, the table sharers were NOT ACTUALLY CUSTOMERS ... they were waiting for a table at a resto up the street! I was flabbergasted that they didnt order anything to drink or even a cookie while waiting. You you already knew they were barbarians so I was particularly annoyed I had to put up with their pre-prandial yapping. [for SF people: This was at RITUAL ROASTERS on a cold day ... they were waiting for their table at DOSA]. So do these people have "fewer rights" than a real patron?
The fact is, most people are barbarians ... even in liberal San Francisco/Berkeley. I joke that Tartine and Cheeseboard are examples of the failure of communism in action ... you simply cannot rely on "from each according to his ability/to each accord to his need etc" ... like at Tartine, clean up your damn table before you leave ... I do not want to sit in your powedered sugar, and I dont know if you blew your nose in that napkin, and I dont want to bus your water glass, but will always bus mine. At Cheeseboard, DO return the damn cheese/pepper/green sauce container to the central location after you are done with them, and DONT send someone in your party to hold a table when you have another 10min in line before you get your food ... you are not clever, you are cheating/rude (see "Knee Defender").
On a lighter note: I did once ask a singleton sitting at a 4 top at Ritual if she minded splitting the table. I am pretty sure she reflexively glanced over her shoulder to see if the cafe was fullish or this was a pickup swoop (it was full). That turned into a 4hr conversation and we ended up going out for ~1yr (and she has no memory of the glance to see if the cafe was full) ... but "chatter" != sociability ... a reasonable person picks up on social cues and has an awareness of the social context.