>Huzzah, one can "get your order to go"?
>
heh. Zagat also forgot to mention "No jacket required" :-)

Sure, I meant to leave the door open for places like Yank Sing, or the fancier places HKFL, Koi Palace etc.

So I mean the diff between the $6 dollar pork vs say $8 crab+pork seems to be ... $2.

Like in a different case some cheap proscuitto or smoke salmon was a total waste of money because it was so bad ... better to spend say 50% more and get something decent.

>With the exception of some crab shell, I'm not sure
>I could tell much difference between these and the pork XLB.
>
yes, in my experience too, pork + crab = pork, so i've been lobbying friends not to spend the extra $$$ needlessly.

maybe different at a high end place?

--psb

Well apparently most are ok with it but not everybody.

In some cases they have the same supplier, so literally the same ingredient stream.

All the Arizmendis are coops too, right? While Sliver is a for-profit business, although it doesnt appear to quite be "rapacious capitalism" [e.g. the interest in anti-human trafficking etc].

I thought the Zoe Pastrami was maybe at the better end of the pedestrian stuff ... let's call it the deli meat category. But in no way compared to the boutique stuff.

Mr. Soupcon:

KFC is probably an apt comparison for some of the "savory" items ... like I thought the ham+egg-croissants were ok ... like a slightly better than egg-mcmuffin for pretty cheap.

Is the bakery near Irving and 9th a SHENG KEE?
Has anybody else tried the TUNA DONUT from there? I found that to be pretty good in a horrible kind of way.

Oh I see. Definitely not day-of-week thing. I'm guessing it was a "hey, let's start making corned beef" .. "whoa, it sold out" ... (when the mood strikes) "let's make it again" ... "whoa, it keeps selling out" ... <plug into Dynamic Stochastic General Equilibrium Model> ... "hey, let's raise the price 40%" ...

Then I lost track of what happened. I think BOYK has tried it more recently than I have.

It is notable that on the one hand they presumably raised the price in response to demand and not an increase in price of inputs (unless it was mispriced to begin with) but arent consistently keeping it in stock.

BTW, their BEEF JERKY is pretty good too. That I believe is in regular supply.

I think LALIME has mediocre food which falls to poor when price is factored in and doublly so when the unwelcomingness factor is added, so it is on my "never again" list.

FONDA, I've wanted to like ... at least they are welcoming and convivial but there is just too little of interest on offer, esp the dessert menu [usually stopping in for a drink+light eating, so i'm not so much judging on mains] ... i think the items are both boring and mediocre in execution.

Oh hi MWong.

You mean when did I find the corned beef at LBS? Oh I'd say in the last year I've bought it 6-7 times ... either they have it, or I ask "are you going to have it?" and they tell me that it is in the pipeline and is expected to be on sale in n-days or "i dont know when we'll have it again".

I once asked the woman there "do you list on your website when the corned beef is in?" and she reponded "oh, would you like us to do so" and i believe indeed it was being listed in the "Sausages for the Week" section at some point, but I dont know if that is de rigeur now or that commitment has fallen through the cracks.

I thought their macao dan tat were pretty good. Other stuff I tried was adequate given the price.

I would mostly keep thinking "Isnt Wheatfield an Intel processor?"

The dont always have it because they dont always make it. I dont think LBS sees this as a problem.

I wonder if the large rise in price was due to supply-demand effects [i.e. they were always selling out at the lower price] or some price shock w.r.t. to inputs, or mispricing etc. I assume the former.

I'm not totally sure what your point is.

The CORNED BEEF at LOCAL BUTCHER (Berkeley) is really good (i ate it straight, not in a sando). However, I was a little annoyed it went up from like $12.50 ot $14/lb to $18/lb essentially overnight. Also, they dont always have it.

> Lanesplitter ... crisper, dark-baked crust I prefer.
>
have you been to the Pizza Place on Noriega?
I've only stopped in there once for a slice while driving home from Java Beach, but I was a bit surprised how crisp their crust was ... wasnt sure if it was an error. Maybe it's because they are usually cooking quite large pizzas and my slice had a lower heat capacity of course.

Anyway, the Pizza Covariance Matrix suggests Lanesplitter people might like this place.

I though the effective price was a little higher than it should have been ... while the 2 topping slice was $3.75, it was a smaller slice than many slice places. On the other hand, the pizzas looked quite large.

Parenthetically, it's such a difference "slice of SF" from ZeroZero, Delfina, Flour+Water etc.

Cable Car Joes in an inexplicable abomination.

>is in the specific area you've specified
>
oh come on, the 280 is just a convenient demarcation. the time to drive from MOM to Canyon Mkt is less than half the time to drive to Broken Record. Not to mention Zazie ... that's most of the way to West Portal. Not to mention the to-go prepared foods of WF and CM re closer substitutes for some of the to-go-oriented restos than MOM.

the driving times here are heavily affected by some details of freeway crossings and exit/entrances.

Anyway, back to food:
I have put V2 burger on my to-try list:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/v2-burger-san...

Baby Filipino and the other Filipino place more or less across the street from the Excelsior Pub Lib have ok chicken and pork skewers for $2.25-$2.50 ... sometimes quite good, other times a little too fatty or a little under cooked.

Has anybody been to the Spanish Cultural Center on Allemany?

The VN place next to the Subway on Mission is ok ... acceptable VN sando, given that Saigon Sando is far away.

The tacos at the Taq Vallarta down here are still $1.50 eventhough they went up to $1.75 at the 24th street location. I've only been to the one down here once but they didnt taste as good ... maybe an off day. It tasted like worse quality meat, but I find that hard to believe.

I'm reducing carbs a bit, so less pizza, pupusas, mexican/asian bakeries, fruit drinks etc for me these days.

I realize this isnt EBay, but for you, tm, have you tried the Mission Bowl Burger? Based on what I had at the precursor, back at Duc Loi, might be worth trying. Dunno if they still have the significant "happy hour" discount.

It was very ... beefy.

My current homebase is in that area as well, so I am quite interested in this thread. Thanks for the update Broken Record has replaced their food crew. Planning to try Dark Horse too.

You know, w.r.t. Little Yangon, I think I have now gotten past the cognitive dissonance phase ("if I drove to this crazy place, i must have done so for a reason") ... I dont think it is that great.

I am curious if among the boat load of hole-in-the-wall/modest asian places on Mission or Ocean there are any to single out ... or maybe individual dishes at certain places. I dont mean Yao Ming Beijing ... that place as obviously already made it into a known entity.

BTW, I havent been to Viking Sando in a while (on Ocean), but I seem to remember what I had there ... probably something like a philly cheesesteak ... was pretty good. I sometimes go to Bello Coffee in Glen Park and keep wanting to to go the the GP branch of Viking, but they close early.

There is of course decent prepared food at Canyon Mkt, but that's essentially seems a substitute for Ocean Whole Foods w.r.t. price/quality.

I dont like the space much at Foglifter Cafe (Ocean Ave) but their Blue Bottle coffee is pretty good.

>It was embarrassing for the both of us, but... Oh well!
>
you should have given her the international sign for "I am watching you" ... but otherwise, Well Done!

If a friend was insistent on going to OSCAR, I probably wouldnt burn my veto on it, as I havent been there for years inspite of walking/driving by it many times a week. Probably because I've forgotten why I dont go back ... whether I just didnt like it or thought it was overpriced etc.

And I suspect after that, I'd go back to not going there.

I think prefer Barney's to Triple Rock. But frankly in that zone, cheeseboard, that slider place, gregoire, possible local butcher sando, now sliver, brasa ... many options crowd it out.

I certainly wouldnt single out OSCAR for an inquiry covering the East Bay, i.e. "not a destination" ... not even "worth a detour", in Michelin-speak.

ok tnx.

Yeah, I agree ... I know people who'd drive there at office lunch time and never understood why. Some kind of Cognitive Dissonance ... "it's an uncomfortable place to eat, so the food must be fantastic, otherwise why I am sitting on a picnic bench on telegraph ave".

And after late night occasions, we didn the drive through jack-in-the-box next door instead. So no apostasy for me.

Yes, opting for GRILLED ONIONS is essential for taste, structure, and the breath weapon-factor. But unfortunately they often under provide the grilled onions as much as they over do the raw.

But it is the LETTUCE CORE which drives me crazy ... I keep wanted to say "Can i give you a $.25 for a decent piece of lettuce?"

The biggest problem with NATION'S is too often they will use the heel -- or whatever the thick white bitter part is called -- rather than just the leafy, green part of the lettuce head.

Somewhat generically, like a lot of the more modest place, various food and non-food aspects of the whole experience can be highly inconsistent/variable ... ranging from getting a grilled cheese instead of burger in my to-go bag, to breaking the burger patty into two pieces, the long waits mentioned above ... and then we get into the long tail ... customer-chef knife fights, being locked inside the restaurant [actually that used to happen a lot at the one that used to be in Southside Berkeley] ... to my favorite episode ... "Uh, what happened to my fries? (after like 40min)" "You wanted fries?" "That's all I ordered! ... yes, I'd like fries for my fries."

If you like mayo on your burgers.

Yes, messy to the point of I dont like to consume them in public with with company.

The Dynamic Stochastic General Equilibrium model successfully predicted the opening prices at BENCHMARK PIZZA were not sustainable, and indeed they appear to have fallen.

Anyway, I took two of my associates there yesterday.
Of the three pizzas I tried, one was EXCELLENT (House Sausage), one was QUITE GOOD (Calabrian Chili), and the last one recommended by the staff person was JUST GOOD (Pistachio) (we got two veg pizza to accomodate the vegetarian at the table). At the current prices, I think they are a pretty good value, esp given the soft drinks are quite reasonably priced.

The soft serve ice cream was NON GOOD. I suppose i really just dont like soft serve. Or sea salt ice cream. Really, you guys cant have some other dessert in house? Having that be your only dessert for adults seems like some kind of ironic retro hipster stunt. In spite of how this sounds, I'm mystified, not upset. Perfectly happy to get another soda for dessert, next time.

I think this should now definitely be a stop on the Albany-Berkeley-Oakland Pizza Tour. HOUSE SAUSAGE for sure. Also tasted quite good cold a day later. I tasted the char more in the left over slices and really relished the complicated bitter tasted addition.

I suppose if i were really, really nitpicky, the distribution of the onions on the pistachio pizza was too clumpy. But they were good tasting onions. Also the place didnt feel that comfortable to loiter ... a bit cold and drafty, and sitting at a round table closely surrounded on all sides by other tables would have been a little uncomfortable had the lower seating area been fully occupied.

Was happy with the 500ml drink ... 12oz can would have been too little.

I think the HOUSE SAUSAGE PIZZA was better than ZERO ZERO.

SPORTIVO has exited the market and become SLIVER aka semi-CAPITALIST CHEESEBOARD. The still have the small bar and TVs but they seem to still be feeling their way around ... dunno if they will be keeping any premium sports channels, run with the sound, seat/screen configuration etc.

You know the old LARRY BLAKES space has become a major sports bar/resto. I'd say the burger/tritip sando type stuff is acceptable ... so if the priority is big screens etc, that's an option. If LAVALS is on the table, this place should be as well.
Oh here is the WOB site:
http://www.pappysontelegraph.com/#!

I am usually looking for a place showing midweek/midday euro/international soccer, so my options are fewer.

re: "not impressed" vs "pretty delicious" ...

in my (not very recent) experience of a fair number of slices and a couple of whole pies, they seem to do a markedly better job when you order a pie than the pret-a-manger pre-made slices.

going back even further, i believe the old 16th street operation did better slices, but maybe that is romantic historical memory or being a few beers down and cold and hungry at Zeitgeist (clearly the appeal of the overpriced and mediocre tamale lady, needs some explanation ... whether intoxication, hunger or cognitive dissonance).

i asked how late they were open and they mentioned that they can pour booze until midnight ... i think there is a TBD factor to their schedule until students get back and they have a better model for demand.

i asked if they deliberately opened before UCB started or if that just kinda happened. that also got kind of a random answer.

again, i was mostly obsessing over whether this was friendly or hostile competition with CB. i have had the vague feeling for some time the new crop of expanded CB employees are more flakey than they used to be. it used to be super efficient and seems less so now ... like "the line is out bast cheeseboard/cheese ... if you arent going to run your second register now, what are you waiting for?" [i understand that is pointless if the bottleneck is pie production, but again, something seems off when you do the "longitudinal" analysis].

oh, also they -- like cheeseboard -- want to have music everynight. i got the impression anyway they were going to have some of the same bands. i.e. they arent going to be doing 80s cover bands or any kind of extreme pandering to say younger students. also, that may suggest this is a friendly situation.

the real product differentiation i am looking for is showing European Football matches. BTW, are you still obsessed with ZLATAN IBRAHIMOVIC?

Just to confirms, Pizza Moda is a "real restaurant" that does not do single slices, right?

FIELD REPORT:
My CH associate was ill and couldnt make it to ROTTEN CITY so after some failed attempts to google "silver pizza" I made it into to SLIVER PIZZA a minute or two after they closed [9ish] ... they recognized me from CHEESEBOARD and gave me a couple of (free) slices and then chatted with me bit about the business. [nota bene, David Farris, I do have sufficient CB mojo to get in after hours :-)]

In the pizza dept, they do seem to be rather closely and unabashedly cloning CB. The pizza of the day was the CB potato slice ... they even kinda said ... "you know, the one you love at CB". But since they were out of that, they gave me a clone of one of the CB tomato pizzas ... although maybe they used cherry tomatoes or some other small round one, instead of the roma or whatever CB uses. The crust was slightly diff, but I think that reflected the oven technology rather than a deliberate and conscious departure ... they apparently inherited a wood burning oven from the previous place, although I dont think they are cooking all the pizzas in there.

"Are you going to do meat pizza?"
"No, veg only"

"Are you going to have other food?"
"We have salads" ... so also following CB there.

The slices are also identically priced at $2.50, although I dont know if that includes the "bonus slice".

The big departure is they not only have beer but hard alcohol. In fact, they are even doing "fancy" cocktails like a SAZERAC! ... which is an interesting place to depart from the CB model.

The one "elephant in the room" topic we didnt get to is "what does the mothership think of this" ... is this going to be friendly like the USSR-CUBA or a "SINO-SOVIET SPLIT?, with SHATTUCK AVE playing the part of the USSURI RIVER? ... we'll know if CB starts referring to SLIVER as "Margarine Pizzaiolos" I suppose.

I believe they have a bar happy hr from 4-6.

THEORY DISCUSSION:
For people interested in INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATION, this may be an interesting case of HOTELLING'S LAW and the LINEAR CITY MODEL. (Chowhound Urmi is planning to a case study).
ObWikipedia for some introductory discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotellin...

Ok tnx.

--psb

p.s. Isnt BOBBY G PIZZA pedestrian in the extreme? Or, as with ROTTEN CITY, do I need to go back now that they have "matured"?

""It's no fun/Being an illegal Parmesan."

Well, it's not like I eat it every day, but those are my standards. There is a good cheese shop near my lab which:
1. has decent prices
2. will let you taste before buy
3. will cut small pieces with no fuss

So it's possible to keep fairly fancy cheeses around at reasonable cost. For example after a long exercise bike ride, I ate my Brillat wedge which was probably like $3.50. It is so rich, a small amount goes a long way. That is cheaper than a smoothie ... I havent done the calorie math tho :-)

rich cheese = small quantity

I have been mulling over whether it is "efficient" to get cheeses above $16/lbs, as there is another place near by which has smoked salmon for $16lb and I tend to like that more. Possibly the SS went up to $20. Also it is a bit less convenient. Oh the cheese shop also has a cream cheese-smoked salmon spread which along with a baguette is my "everyday" snack.

Maybe I missed the point of the question.
The cheeses listed above are the ones I never seem to get tired of and are pretty consistent in quality. I see this as a diff question than "what's your fav cheese under $10/lbs" ... to me those are all "melting cheeses" or "hiking/camping cheeses" these days.

BTW, #3 above is super important. For example, I like La Tur, but I think the shop will only sell a whole or half round, and even the half round is more than I want unless buying for a dinner party etc. I think most of the yuppie-type cheese shops in my city would not be thrilled if you spent 15min tasting 6 cheeses and buying 4, but in small enough quantities to only spend $15. However the cheese shop I mention above is run by an bunch of communists and there is no such bad vibe.

You know I went to ROTTEN CITY not long after they opened and filed them away as "good but not wow" -- which explains the lack of return visits (also the location isnt convenient for me).

However, I had two slices there last week and now I'd say they are the best slices along with TONY SLICE.

Yes, better than SLICE OF NY, SPEEDERIA, GIOIA, LANESPLITTER, PI BAR.

I do not include CHEESEBOARD, as that's a totally different beast. And not comparing to white table cloth, whole pie only places etc.