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Re-tinning copper pans

Hi Peter
Have you tried using the regular staybrite too?
The staybrite and staybrite 8 both have same tensile strength so only advantage between two would be the #8 will not flow for another 100 f or so - therefore good for frying at higher temps?
I'm wondering which one to purchase - only thing I'm worried about is getting #8 to flow on larger thicker pans?
Cheers
Nathan

Dec 16, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Vintage Copper Sauce Pan Question

I have never seen this make either, its going to be lovely when restored - very unique type of join in base - its a nice feature. I would guess pan is well over 100 years old. Might be worth asking the french seller who has ebay name french-copper-cookware he has been compiling a log of makers and you can find him also on the "best copper cookware brands" thread on here about a year ago. enjoy

Dec 07, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Thanks Peter, so are you using the staybrite mainly due to it being a harder surface? I wonder how much longer it will give you before needing tinning again compared to just pure tin? (hard to guess I know) Also I guess from a health point of view the less tin that one consumes via the lining eroding over time (and overheating/manhandling etc) - the better. Although tin is pretty non reactive and not well absorbed by the body, I have seen research that suggests chronic injestion of smallish amounts may cause health issues so I wonder if this is the reason the "harder more durable" staybrite tin/silver is NSF food certified and the pure tins are not?? any thoughts anyone?
Shame about the decoration pan! pays to ask the weight of pan compared to size before buying.
Please let me know how tinning goes once you got propane
nathan

Dec 05, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Copper Cookware ID??

I would def say they are machined alumium with copper coating - I got done over buying a (5) set of these once (my first copper purchase) from a seller in france - i went by gauge and not weight! and when I sent them back to france the seller ignored the post office customs request and they got sent back to me in NZ! when NZ post wanted cash for the 3rd trip back I abandoned them (over 200 GBP later) probably ended up in an auckland auctionhouse for another sucker to buy!
Excuse the long story but the short of it is stay away from them - only usefull for display. Buy individual pans of quality.
SORRY JUST SAW HOW OLD ORIGINAL POST WAS - oh well its a usefull tip i guess

Dec 05, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

VitaMix Blender, is it worth it?

Go for a vitamix - pretty sure they are still made in USA - I try to avoid chinese made appliances wherever poss. I purchased a vitamix "drink machine' about 14 years ago for a juice bar, and now it is just used in my home kitchen - its never missed a beat and I have only once changed the container to the BPA free one in that time. pretty sure this model was an industrial version and cost 500 british pounds then - buy the best one you can afford and you will never look back -an essential serious cooks/foodies tool IMO.

Dec 04, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Hi, Has anyone tried the harris staybrite out yet?? peter-was it harder to use/apply than the pure tin? I am about to order some but want to make sure first.
Apart from being NSF certified is there other advantages to using it? maybe it will be a harder wearing surface? I do not think that the tin that harris use will be any more or less pure than the other pure tins we have talked about and the melting point is about the same so the poss harder wear is the only plus eh?
thoughts please
cheers
nathan

Dec 04, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Best cutting boards?

Oh and thicker boards are nicer to use but only if it does not raise your worktop hight too much for comfortable use

Nov 27, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Best cutting boards?

Find a small scale made wooden chopping board (as suggested above - farmers market etc)
that way you can quiz them on what adhesive and oil has been used - forget the dishwasher thing when it comes to boards - only takes a second to rinse them off - especially if just veg etc
Also getting a small one (mines 22x18cm) made for just garlic squashing/chopping is great as it keeps strong flavour away from other boards and is the perfect size to run a cooks knife sideways on it if grinding garlic to paste with salt.
I personally would not use anything else but natural wood- it's amazing the amount of people who spend years of suffering chopping on glass etc!

Nov 27, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Copper pan - silver versus stainless lining

Hi Matusk,
I think from a health point of view it would be fine to leave food stored in silver but my only reservation would maybe be that depending on what you are storing in the pan that it may cause discolouration and even poss eat away at it to a small degree?? - maybe someone who knows more about chem reactions might be best clarify this or someone who has tried it enough to see.
with regards to size of pan I always like to have more room and 20cm for a fry/saute pan is small & because the silver wont melt like tin can if you only use a small portion of the space then it makes the 28cm seem a better choice as an all rounder in my opinion.
with regards to seasoning I have never tried seasoning tin or silver but rather let it happen with time with certain pans, however I recall kaleo saying he has had good success with oil & put in the oven method so he could clarify this.
Health wise I do not think the level of tarnish/discolouration that you should get will cause any problems and I remember doing some internet research on this a couple of years ago and did not have concerns, I think silver would be top of my list as a lining for health purposes - way above stainless steel IMO.
Interested to hear about your calculations too!

Nov 26, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Copper pan - silver versus stainless lining

Thanks for that info, I remember seeing that method once when I was searching to how to clean epns cutlery - worth a try on a pan I reckon- although I personally don't mind a tarnished surface as I treat my cookware as tools - just rugged good looking ones!
Nathan

Nov 26, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Hi Alarash,
With regards to the glass fibre insulation - you have raised an interesting point about harmfull residue etc. I started with the pink dyed stuff called pink batts here in NZ (old & out of rat infested loft!)
then a friend who has just done some renovations told me it may contain formaldehyde and they had used an eco version of which I got hold of a big bag of off cuts for $5 with some stiffer stuff for walls rather than loft space - which was easier to work with than the softer stuff. Hopefully the glass fibre itself wont leave unwanted residue?, however it is not perfect to use IMO as it still burns slightly and bits come off a bit too - Maybe there is a woven glass fibre fire proof fabric out there which may be even better???
I hear what you say about the heat and that larger pans are harder, shame as I was leaving a prize 4mm 19lb villedieu sauce pan till when my skills matched what it deserved - might wait a bit longer!
Thanks for your input and please keep us posted with your future results too
nathan

Nov 26, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Thanks Peter, I am keen to try the Harris Stay Brite 5 so will order some and give it a try - interested to see how much more hard wearing it is than just Tin and how well it adheres in the tinning process.
Also I notice that the Roto metals tin is in fact 99.9490% pure, even less than the 99.98% I am using - this has been briefly discussed before on this site but does anyone have a problem with the super minor amounts of lead etc that makes up the rest??? I wonder what the harris tin assay comes in at? is there such a thing as 100%
cheers, Nathan

Nov 25, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Copper pan - silver versus stainless lining

Looked at the Soyturkiye line and I got to say it looks v nice, seems like a switched on company and amazing that they offer free yearly retinning and re silvering if needed. They mention the handles they make in house do not heat up as quick as other bronzes too.
I have some silver lined frying pans and yes they do discolour although not as much as tin - certain foods such as eggs will make it worse but you can always polish the silver back to shiny if reqd. I keep one silver pan just for making pancakes and never wash it- its brown now and its the best surface that i have ever used for this purpose whereas i have an identical un seasoned/polished one that stuck like crazy when frying some chicken. I personally would only spend the extra money for silver on a fry/saute pan where higher temps are needed - this is where they come into their own - I think the differences in conductivity and stickyness between tin, S/S & silver linings are very slight and once pan is seasoned even less so.
Id take the risk on the Soyturkiye it it was me however if you want it to look constantly pretty then maybe S/S is the one. Good luck.

Nov 25, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

cant find anything from searching -only definition of Eutectic
Any chance of a link or some more info on it? cheers

Nov 24, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Thanks K, I enclose a couple of photos of the finished results but maybe soon a step by step you tube video may be on the cards! I,ve got a job lot of thirty something Leon Jaeggi ex catering college pans coming to me so will have plenty to perfect my skills on...
The first photo is the one I did yesterday which worked well, the second is some of the others I,ve done including a Gaillard Gratin dish which the tin pooled lots - I think because it only has rings and I could not hold properly to dump excess tin and get right angles under the extreme heat.
When you say Eutectic solder - this is a type/mix and not a brand for me to search on ??
cheers
Nathan

Nov 24, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Re-tinning copper pans

Hi All , After a couple of years of playing around and gathering info from various sources I am now getting consistant "reasonable" results with retinning and thought I would share my findings and raise some Qs, this is my routine:

1) I use a 3M abrasive plastic pad on my electric drill and remove 99% of the old tin, and use a fine wire brush drill bit for corners and around rivets etc. this takes about 10-15 minutes on medium pan.

2) fill pan up with rain water (distilled) and few teaspoons of caustic soda to de-grease (may not be needed on the bare copper but it does turn copper a different shade of pink which maybe helps process?)

3) after a few hours I rinse and dry pan

4) prepare outdoor gas burner and equipment, brush cold pan with flux ( "stay clean" by Harris U.S.A - zinc chloride & hydrochloric acid) then put pan on flame

5) when pan is hot enough I squirt more flux in and add small tin ingot, when tin melts and flows I wipe with a wad of glass fibre insulation (a pro tinner I spoke to uses this- it still burns slightly but better than the merino wool fleece I used before, thinking of trying to soak with tallow to help stop this and maybe get smoother finish) tilting the pan and wiping up the edges and around rim.

6) this is the hardest stage - dumping out the right amount of excess tin to prevent pooling and getting the heat right to keep tin flowing and not leaving unsmooth patches, also the longer you take the harder it is to get nice finish - maybe due to oxidation? - this section is where pro tinners are ahead of us hobbyists!

7) clean pan and boil on stove with white vinegar and water to remove residual flux.

Use a "acid gases" mask/respirator - not just the one for general fumes/painting
heavy gloves and goggles.
With this method the tin never fails to adhere and the only thing left for me to master is getting no small pools of tin left - however this is purely cosmetic and should come with more practise and tips... In fact the last one I did was nearly perfect and I think it was because it was a small & thin (1.5mm) and the heat was easy to control, I thought it would have been the opposite and my larger 3mm saute pan I did the same day had several pools of tin left and getting enough heat around the rivet area was a challenge - maybe a flame with more grunt might help on the larger stuff - or pre melting the tin in another vessel.

I am interested in hearing more about this food grade tin/silver solder - I am yet to find food grade pure tin that you hear mentioned - mine is 99.98% pure but I see in a You Tube video clip of the man from mazzetti retinnning - he mentioned it must be 100% pure tin and claims if you wipe a tissue around pan interior there should be no black residue - my fresh tinned and cleaned pans had a small amount come off but hopefully not due to the other tiny % of other metals & antimony???

Also it seems that the copper takes a certain amount of tin and then the excess pools - I wonder if all hand wiped tin interiors are pretty much the same thickness in microns or does it depend on the worker?

Any thoughts or tips welcome

Nov 24, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Can anyone help me identify the manufacturer of this copper pot?

Thanks Kaleo, great info thats solved the puzzle for me. cheers

Jun 04, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Can anyone help me identify the manufacturer of this copper pot?

Hi, I saw these a few days ago too and admired them, it does not get much better than this for a tin lined graduated set of 5 and the lining looks perfect and almost a hefty 10kg - only some lids would top it off.
As K already said, I believe brand to be Bourgeat/Matfer
(2 experienced collectors once told me) although I am confused as to why they changed names and logos but maybe someone can fill me in on this story?
I would say its a fair price and will last lifetimes of pleasure.

Jun 02, 2014
nathan76 in Cookware

Best Copper Pan Brands in the World ?

Hi TJ,
That is a very nice oval dish - good job I did not see this for sale! but I remember the white tiles that the pan is standing on - think was on ebay with another nice copper pan (gaillard?)
Please tell me your ebay name so I can save you as a seller for the future!
My e mail, nathansamueldavis@yahoo.com I am from UK (New Zealand based at present)
Regards
Nathan

Nov 06, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Best Copper Pan Brands in the World ?

Hi TJ,
Thanks, and you mention about your "files" and I am intrigued as to how and why etc that you collect this info?? excuse me being nosey but it seems interesting!
I enclose a pic of a 20cm s/s bourgeat next to one of my fav unmarked (except chefs or hotel initials "INT") tin lined 32cm 6kg slightly sloped sided saute pan with cast bronze or poss brass handle, I believe it to be English made due to its features but I may be wrong?? you may know something about this??
One of my most used pans is a English leon jaeggi silver lined copper fry pan which even at a modest 1.75mm thick helps make the most amazing sourdough pancakes that do not stick, burn (my cast iron fry pan can not compare) or risk the melting of tin at higher temps - highly recommended tool.

Would it not be great if others shared stories and or pics of their copper collections??

Regards
Nathan

Oct 31, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Best Copper Pan Brands in the World ?

Hi TJ, Amazing list... I can only add Havard Villedieu of which I have one of, it is of good quality however it is no match for several of my others (esp Gaillard) of which you or kaleo have listed. My favorite stainless lined is def Bourgeat catering grade range with cast iron handles - they are well made and nice to use. Most of my best tin lined do not have markings and I will always wonder who made them!
cheers
nathan

Oct 31, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Retinning Copper Cookware - Do It Yourself

Thanks Alarash thats good advise and pretty much how I thought it may be! I will post my results (in the next few weeks hopefully) I have had about 15 pieces retinned by thomas gameson & sons in UK, they are cheap and excellent! but I bought out several pans to here in New Zealand that needed doing (thinking i could find someone here) but only 2 people in the country "dabble" in retinning and charge 4-5 times what I paid from gamesons, therefore I am very keen to master the art as a long term security! cheers, Nathan

Feb 18, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Retinning Copper Cookware - Do It Yourself

Thanks Kaleo for that info.
I have had the pan I will start on fine sandblasted inside so it is back to perfect smooth bare copper ( a guy who has some experience recommended this for best results although it was a bit costly - but I have no other choices here) so I guess I still should clean/scrub with NaOH/fine wire wool as you rec or I have read 10% sulfuric acid in distilled water also??
Did you pre melt tin or if not what shape/size solid form was it in? and what flux would you use next time?
cheers, Nathan

Feb 18, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Retinning Copper Cookware - Do It Yourself

I see your post is a year old now and wondering if you mastered the art of retinning??? I am getting info and gear together to DIY it as here in NZ there are no proper retinners left! and I have several heavy pans that need doing.
I am going to try natural Rosin resin as flux and a tallow soaked cotton rag/moleskin/old jeans to wipe and use 99.9% pure tin.
I will use a plumbers torch and outside gas ring and use a vapour mask too!
Any input from any one please, cheers, Nathan

Feb 18, 2013
nathan76 in Cookware

Is this pot tin-lined or stainless-lined copper--how to tell?

Thanks for the quick photo reply jeremy and i will keep you posted with my results. Your mark looks the same as a confiture/jam pan that is on its way to me and I am told it was a retirement gift brand new to a french chef in the 60,s - 70,s. I enclose a photo of marking from my gaillard saucepan that seems much older - the mark is almost the same but different somehow from yours and confiture pan. there is also the gaillard mark that says J&E Gaillard and has the paris address. There is a set of gaillard pans just listed on ebay uk with same marking as yours but steel looking rivets on cast iron and more machined looking edges.
Would like to put the puzzle together! any input would be great from other gaillard owners.
cheers, Nathan

Nov 09, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware

Is this pot tin-lined or stainless-lined copper--how to tell?

thanks Kaleo, My french is basic although I have been meaning to get this book since you recommended it few months ago, also I need to ask vin @ old copper too. will update when I find some info. cheers, Nathan

Nov 09, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware

Is this pot tin-lined or stainless-lined copper--how to tell?

Hi Jeremy, I am trying to work out dates & the different markings that Gaillard used and would love to see a photo of the makers mark on this. Also if anyone can shed light on the history of Gaillards production that would be great as info is very hard to find.
cheers, Nathan

Nov 09, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware

silver-lined copper pan

Thanks Kaleo, Was the "seasoning" process just a case of using it a few times and taking care to only wipe out rather than wash?
Also has anyone heard of any health benefits of cooking in silver? and why is there only a couple of companies making silver lined pans? is it purely a cost thing?

Kaleo, did you mean you tinned your pan at home?

Cheers, Nathan

Sep 15, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware

silver-lined copper pan

Have some vintage silver plated copper fry pans on the way to me and am keen to find out the main advantages & how I should use & maintain them in comparison to my tin lined copper pans. ps Kaleo, did you end up silvering your 4mm saute?

Sep 14, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware

Care and feeding of copper pans

Hi Kaleo
Have tried old copper with no luck but enclose photos. I have been collecting copper cookware for only 6 mths but have pretty good experience in other types of vintage / catering quality kitchen equip, have had to learn fast and found out the hard way by spending 180 GBP on some copper plated alloy crap set of 5 pans from france!! now I am concentrating on 3mm + heavy oldies such as Gaillard etc and re tining if needed (I am from UK but live in NZ and put the pans in containers that I ship other things here in) I am keen to speak to others about their collections and tips etc - might start a new thread.
Cheers, Nathan

Jun 03, 2012
nathan76 in Cookware