jonasblank's Profile
Mendoza, Argentina Wine Tasting?
My wife and I are visiting Mendoza for four days this March. it will be our first time in Argentina.
For the majority of our time in Mendoza we would like to focus on wine tasting. I have the info on two well-reviewed drivers, who I'm sure know what they are doing, but I would also like some independent advice.
I visit Napa and Sonoma regularly (sample tasting report here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/813883) and have been to tastings in many other places. So, our real focus is the wine - not the tourist experience of a "tour" or a high-end property. We want to try the best wines, ideally by smaller producers who don't export much, from the best producers. If that means a lovely property, great, but that is not the focus.
I can't admit to having very deep knowledge of Argentine wine at all. I could name a handful of bottles I buy regularly and a few of the big producers like Catena, but I really don't know much.
If anyone has been and has particular producers they'd recommend, or other ideas, your help would be most appreciated.
Another idiotic "cheap wine" story in Slate
That's another excellent point. I suppose in Europe it is a bit different, because there is much more production per capita and more consumption per capita. I understand that a lot of vin ordinaire or table wine over there may really be just excess production from smaller estates. I realize that is to a limited degree the case in the U.S., but if you're talking about the very inexpensive category the writer suggests (1 to 2 Euros, or three to five dollars) the only options I am aware of come from Gallo, Bronco aka Charles Shaw, and a very few others, all of which are exactly the type of industrial agriculture to which you refer.
Your Favorite Petite Sirah
The Bogle seems to be a very solid choice at a low price point. One that I've loved recently - especially as I can really only stand Petite Sirah's that are a bit softer in style - is Sheldon's 2006 PS. I picked some up on my last trip to California. They don't make much wine, period (it's a garage-style operation in Santa Rosa) but there is still some available direct: http://www.shop.sheldonwines.com/
Another idiotic "cheap wine" story in Slate
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2011/11/why_you_should_be_drinking_cheap_wine.html
To save everyone some time, this rehashes the same tired following ideas:
- most people can't tell the difference between "cheap" and "expensive" wines
- the price of wines varies widely
- if you spend a lot of money on wine, you will spend a lot of money (a syllogism of breathtaking obviousness)
What I don't understand about these pieces is that wine is singled out, as if it is alone among products where some sort of "myths" must be "debunked" to spare the poor consumer from buying more expensive products.
In virtually every product category, a more expensive alternative exists whose attributes may not be that important to the "average" consumer. A few that immediately come to mind:
Clothes - $10 Target shirt vs. $500 Gucci shirt - Both still are shirts
Watch - a Rolex and a Timex keep time equally well
Car - Both a Chevy Aero and a Ferrari can drive at highway speeds
Restaurant Meal - Basic nutrition can be had for $12.99 per person at TGI Friday's, or $500+pp at French Laundry...
Golf clubs - I'm not really a golfer, but I understand you can spend $1000s on these
Audio - More like wine in that the improved attributes of the high-end products may be less obvious to some people
..and so on. Yet there are never articles that say, "Don't buy expensive clothes" or "don't go to expensive restaurants"? Yet it is no more obvious that if you don't really care about, say, watches, you probably shouldn't buy a Rolex. The degree to which the "better" product is "better" is only likely to matter to those who are heavy users of the product and who care more about them.
The fact that there are great bottles of wine that are inexpensive to very inexpensive is not exactly a secret. There are also some pretty amazing food experiences you can have for not much money, and unless you're Tiger Woods, you can probably play just about as good of golf with some cheap clubs as some more expensive ones. But it doesn't mean that ON AVERAGE the "more expensive" products aren't actually better in some ways, and it doesn't mean that the person for whom whatever difference in quality exists is wrong for perceiving, or indeed, enjoying that difference.
... ::end rant:: :)
Sonoma/Napa Tasting Report (long)
I'm glad to hear that. FWIW, based on the better Zins I tasted during the trip, that style may finally be dying off. Of what I tasted at Mauritson, the Zin was my favorite, but it didn't "wow" me the way that some others (particularly the Zichichi) did. But I think your summation of it is consistent with what I remember. As I said, I think the overall impression of Mauritson was hurt to some degree by the bottles having just been opened.
Sonoma/Napa Tasting Report (long)
A friend and I just completed a three-day tasting tour of Sonoma and Napa, much of it planned using recommendations from members here. This was the fifth or sixth trip for each of us, so during the course of previous trips we had learned at least a few things about what we did and did not want.
This trip was organized by region, with one per day - Russian River, then Dry Creek, then Napa. In each, we tried to not visit places we had been before, which knocked out some (Ridge, Seghesio, Papapietro Perry, etc.) that we knew we loved, but didn’t want to revisit given our limited time.
The goal was to visit places that made high-quality and interesting wines, and that were less “corporate”, rather than having to adhere to a particular style or varietal. While we visited a high number of places, particularly on the second day, we tried to avoid palate fatigue (and of course, alcohol-related issues) by scheduling things as far apart as we could, eating lunch in the middle of the day, sharing tastings, not finishing tastings when necessary, and drinking a lot of water. I live in New York, so my goal is to taste, and buy, the best American wines I can get my hands on to enjoy throughout the year.
My impressions and opinions below are just that - I don’t pretend to be any kind of expert, and I don’t feel I can take it upon myself to offer full critiques of most of the wines, especially as I didn’t take individual tasting notes. But, I hope some of the below can be useful to others looking for recommendations in the future.
Day One- Russian River
Dutton-Goldfield. This was our first stop on Thursday, in large part because there was a huge accident/fuel spill on 101 blocking northbound traffic that diverted us over this way. I had not had their wines before but had tried some Goldfield-consulted wines from other labels. While the pinots were impressive, I found some of the other wines hit-or-miss - in particular, I was not a fan of the Zin or the Syrah. The Gewurtztraminer, which was done in a dry style, was a surprise success.
Merry Edwards. We booked an appointment for the reserve tasting and were blown away by the quality of her Pinots. The reserve tasting was a very civilized, sit-down affair in a private room which gave us more of an opportunity to discuss the wines and compare and contrast different bottlings from the same vintage, as well as one library wine.
Copain. I discovered Copain when I was served one of their Pinots as a wine pairing at an NYC restaurant. I fell in love instantly, and their tasting - outdoors in the perfect weather, overlooking the hills and vineyards - confirmed that I was right. Interestingly, their fruit is primarily from further north in the Anderson Valley in Mendocino, which seems to yield more delicate refined wines. Each Pinot was outstanding, and I was similarly impressed with their Syrah. They also do a not-delicate-at-all monster red that I believe is sourced from Paso Robles - also quite enjoyable, but more suitable as a “cocktail wine” than the other wines they were tasting.
Sheldon Wines. I personally feel like a trip is not complete without a visit to at least one “garage-style” winemaker, and Sheldon’s laid-back shared winery and tasting room in the corner of a strip mall in Santa Rosa was a perfect way to end the day. This husband-and-wife team is self-taught, and their commitment to craft, including their dedication to minimalist techniques, was evident. Their wines tended to be leaner and more “European” in style, and several were outstanding. I was partial to their Rousanne-based white blend, and to their Graciano - which is a fairly rare Spanish varietal that is not widely planted in CA. Tobe and Dylan are also really cool, down-to-earth and interesting people to talk to, and the story of how they ended up here is an interesting one. If the taco truck happens to be out from when you are there, skip whatever meal you’re having next and have some tacos - they were amazing.
Day Two: Dry Creek Valley
While I had loved many Dry Creek wines on previous visits, there were several “misses” today, particularly among the 2008 vintage, which appears to have been particularly rough on Dry Creek Zin. It may also have been, as I mentioned, that I didn’t visit a number of favorites from past trips like Ridge, Unti, and Seghesio. As you will notice, this was by far the longest day, and the palate fatigue absolutely set in at some point, although we tried to break things up to minimize that.
Mauritson - A bit of a random stop for us as the place we tried to go to first was not open when we arrived. The tasting room employee was lovely, but the wines we tasted were, sadly, not to our taste for the most part. We tried their current zin, Rockpile Syrah, Cabernet, and a Cabernet-based blend, and none of them really hit with us. I also felt that, it being the beginning of the day, some of the wines still needed a few more hours to open up.
Preston- This was a CH recommendation and it was a knockout. A bit out of the way, and totally worth it. Their offerings included a Rousanne-based white (“Madam Preston”), which I’m always a sucker for, a “Syrah-Sirah” (Syrah and Petit Sirah blend), “L Preston” Rhone blend, Mourvedre and a Petit Sirah. Of these, I particularly liked the Mourvedre and the Rhone blend for their rusticity and balance, but I was wowed by everything we tasted. If you’re so inclined, you can also purchase bread, house made olive oil, and cheese and have a picnic on the property.
Bella. Fairly high on my list of disappointments, I should have been more worried when some people in the Dutton Goldfield tasting room the day before described a wine tour of their property in a jeep that involved (in their telling) getting wasted. I did not take that tour, so I can’t comment on whether that is true. Their property itself is lovely, but the tasting room in a “cave” and the general atmosphere in there gave it a bit of a corporate vibe for me. I did not like most of the wines at all - we poured out all of the wines except for a rather stunning Sonoma Coast Pinot.
[As a side note, is the new marketing thing in CA to serve a massive, buttery Chardonnay and then say it is “Burgundian” in style? Because surely most of the people pouring these wines know what white Burgundy should taste like. I was given this “Burgundian” line at several places, and then promptly served something very non-Burgundian.]
Zichichi. A random stop recommended at Mauritson, this small facility was acquired in 2000 by a gentleman from New Orleans and his wife, and he is making some blockbuster estate-grown zin. We tasted two of his zin bottlings, and then were offered a barrel tasting of his 2010. The wines were, to me, excellent representations of the varietal, in a softer and more restrained style, and the 2010 we tasted, in particular, was phenomenal - so much so that we bought a half-case of futures!
A. Rafanelli. After a late lunch, we went to an appointment at A. Rafanelli, an outstanding producer whose 2007 Cab I had recently enjoyed. While the tasting experience and staff were lovely, I was less blown away by the wines this time, likely because they needed more time. They are a producer to whom I give the benefit of the doubt.
Talty. Another CH recommendation, and a strong one, we enjoyed the widely varying styles of Zin that Talty had on offer - one of which was exceptionally lean, while others were a touch more opulent, though still on the lighter side of the Dry Creek style.
Wilson. Wilson serves a massive list of zins, but after trying a couple of them and their cabernet, we decided to leave. I liked neither the wines nor the somewhat more bustling tasting room atmosphere.
Family Wineries. I highly recommend this co-op of five small wineries, which is located in the same complex with Peterson, Amphora, Kokomo, and the outstanding Papapietro Perry, who make some of my favorite Pinots. Family Wineries gives you a chance to try a wide variety of producers, varietals and styles in a single tasting room. Our tasting was done by Jerry Forth, founder of one of the member wineries by the same name, who happened to be working his shift. I was impressed, as expected, by the Dashe Zin he was pouring, by his own 2009 Cabernet, and by the very huge, American-in-style, but tasty, Lago di Merlo Barbera in particular.
Kokomo. My friend and I are both members of their wine club, so we felt like we couldn’t pass up a visit to Kokomo although my palate was pretty much for nought at that point. Having tried most of their current releases at other times, I would strongly recommend them as a bit of an under-the-radar choice. In my opinion, they make a wide variety of wines very well, including their Peter’s Vineyard Pinot. Their prices are also a bit more reasonable than some producers in the area.
Day Three: Napa
This day was the best-paced, with a smaller number of visits over a wider span of time.
Corison. I’m not sure there is anything illuminating or complimentary that I can say of Cathy Corison and her wines that hasn’t already been said, but this is a place I always go out of my way to visit. I love her more restrained style, and their tasting room experience is always a good one, being appointment-only. In this case we were treated to a wide swath of the past decade, tasting the 02, 04, 05, 06, 07 and (I think);08 Cabernet releases. Had a lovely conversation with the gentleman working the tasting room bar (including some hilarious anecdotes from him about ultra-high-tech vanity wineries that had gone up in the region) and a lot of delicious wine.
St. Supery. Although they didn’t fit the mold of the other types of places we were visiting, I wanted to go here to taste one specific wine, their Dollarhide Ranch Cabernet. Quite a few years ago, I had a bottle of their 1997 Dollarhide Ranch at a birthday dinner, and it was the first “big American Cab” that I remember (not to mention how expensive it was). I wanted to go back and taste the current release to see if my opinion had changed. The wine I tried was much younger, but it was already well on its way to being like the ‘97 I remembered.
Tulocay. A CH recommendation. I had called Bill and asked about a tasting a few weeks ago and he had at first said no because he had a big event going. While I was still on the line, he had a change of heart and invited me to a special tasting he was doing for a group of about 30 that also included a tasting of the “Spring” label by his winemaker, Skippy. Anyone who has met these gentlemen before can imagine what a pleasure it was to be introduced to them and to this idyllic little house on a hill with a small winery attached to it. We tasted a huge range of both wines, including a barrel tasting of an earthy, funky, completely natural (no sulfites or anything else) “hippie Syrah” that Skippy was working on. We met some great new people, took in the flawless Napa weather, and generally enjoyed the heck out of ourselves. Oh, and the wines were good, too. (I was partial to the Spring 07 Merlot, the Tulocay 06 Cabernet, and the Tulocay Pinot (I think it was an 09).
Scholium Project. As if an incredible afternoon at Tulocay wasn’t enough, our final stop was a complete shot in the dark. I had been a fan of Abe Schoener’s intriguing wines since having one of his bottles at Cyrus a few years ago, and since trying any and all of his wines I could get my hands on. So, I decided to send him an email, tell him I was a fan of his wines, and see if we could get together. He agreed, and set a time toward the end of the day.
Our experience at Scholium is really an entire post in itself, but suffice it to say that the experience was perhaps the highlight of all my trips to Northern California. We tasted Abe’s wines at different stages of fermentation, straight from the barrel, even while still heavy with yeast. We talked about his winemaking philosophy, and tried (I think) almost everything he will be releasing. His wines are mind-bending, unorthodox creations, and their flavor profiles varied quite a bit from one barrel to the next at times. They tasted like nothing else - it became almost a joke to try and guess what varietal anything was after awhile. Every taste brought gasps of surprise, delight and wonderment. It was finally driven home for me in this epic evening just to what degree wine is a living thing.
In keeping with the tone of the evening, Abe not only didn’t try to sell us anything, he sent us back to SF (since we were leaving) with the rest of the bottle we had sampled, one of his 07 Chardonnays. The sommelier at Boulevard that night wasn’t quite sure what to make of us bringing in a half-full, unlabeled bottle of wine to start our meal, but....
Anyway, thanks for the (considerable) space, and the many helpful recommendations. I have many more left to try next time!
"Obscure" wineries for Sonoma/Napa Tasting Trip
Just jumped back into the thread and WOW there is a lot to process here! my Google map is already overflowing....Thanks for all the suggestions... the vast majority of which I wasn't familiar with. It really amazes me how no matter how many visits I make, the number of incredible new places to discover don't seem to decrease!
"Obscure" wineries for Sonoma/Napa Tasting Trip
Seems like Smith-Madrone is an obvious winner. Loving all of these suggestions so far. I am already wishing I will have more time (as I always do).
Pride is really wonderful - definitely a trek, but was worth it!
"Obscure" wineries for Sonoma/Napa Tasting Trip
Love all these suggestions so far... I've been to both Unti and Papapietro - both definitely along the lines of what I'm looking for. FWIW Kokomo, in that same complex with Papapietro, makes what I've found to be some very good wines, and their pricing is quite reasonable.
"Obscure" wineries for Sonoma/Napa Tasting Trip
A good friend andI are taking a trip to Sonoma and Napa in late October, staying in Healdsburg. Both of us have been a number of times before and found many favorites, but each time it gets a little harder to get out of the rut of going back to the ones I loved on a previous visit.
By "obscure" I mean smaller properties, places that probably require appointments and might not be in guidebooks, and that are almost totally focused on wine rather than the "tasting room experience."
One example I can think of is Siduri/Novy, whose wines I love, but whose "tasting room", as those of you who have been know, is just a garage in a nondescript Santa Rosa strip mall. Similarly, if say, Scholium had a way to taste their wines, or Thackeray, those would be the kinds of things I would be interested in doing. (Although, to give a counter example, I also love Chalk Hill's tasting room, which is quite dramatic. But I still feel like it's a bit 'off the beaten path').
As to what I want to taste, I usually aim for diversity. I would say I am more interested in Syrah than the average person, less interested in Pinot than the average person. Primarily I want to try wines that are interesting, either unusual takes on the prevailing style, or unusual combinations of varietals.
We don't have a problem driving a bit further, making appointments, or paying fees. Really, we just want to taste interesting wines made by interesting people.
Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thank you in advance.
Coming back to NY in October--where to eat?
Out of that list I'd say Scarpetta would be my first choice. Plenty of talk about Babbo all over this board, and when it's on, it's really exceptional, but I feel like they've been a touch off their game lately. Del Posto is another option and maybe has been getting more attention since it got its 4th star in the NY Times.
Apizz is great, and definitely better in Winter. I was thoroughly unimpressed with Maialino, both in terms of atmosphere and food. It felt gimmicky to me, and the food was somewhat lackluster.
-----
Babbo
110 Waverly Pl, New York, NY 10011
Del Posto
85 10th Avenue, New York, NY 10011
Apizz
217 Eldridge St., New York, NY 10002
Scarpetta
355 West 14th Street, New York, NY 10014
Maialino
2 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10010
California Syrah
I am also partial to the Novy, which in their basic style can be had for $25. I am also pretty partial to the Unti. Both it and the Novy are "big" as CA Syrahs tend to be but I think have a certain rusticity that keeps them from being ridiculous.
If ridiculous is the goal, more of the Santa Barbara wineries seem to be doing insanely high-alcohol, extracted Syrahs (some, not all).
I can't speak specifically to their Syrah (although I've had it, I can't recall the last time I did) but Kokomo Winery in Dry Creek is a small producer that makes some very fine zins, syrahs etc. that are in the right price range and not ridiculous.
Good bars near PS1?
Embarrassed to say that Saturday's trip to PS1 in LIC will be my first to PS1. I'm meeting up with some friends a bit beforehand over that way, and was wondering what some good bars might be in walking distance. A Google search turns up several, but it's hard to judge from that. I would have loved to do Dutch Kills, but it's not all that close if you're talking about only meeting up 1hr before an event.
Doesn't have to be particularly fancy, but something with a bit more character would be good...
Thanks for the space...
-----
Dutch Kills
27-24 Jackson Ave, Queens, NY 11101
Visiting from NYC, two nights, two lunches to plan, variety wanted
My wife and I are thrilled to be back in your beautiful city for a dear friend's wedding. We are staying at the Westin Bayshore. We are both young professionals (early 30s) from NYC and we dine out very often. In terms of what we like, probably our favorite place in NYC is Momofuku Ssam Bar, but the usual "very best of the best" places like Le Bernardin, Jean Georges, etc. are also places we visit on special occasions. Which is to say, when we visit a new city (which Vancouver basically is; our last trip was just a stopover), the first consideration is the place being interesting and representing the community it is in. Typically we try to mix in a "nice" place (meaning, high end food, higher price point, good/interesting wine list and drinks- not necessarily white tablecloths) as well as other places that are simply well-regarded regardless of what they are. Hence, a place like Momofuku Ssam is special to us because it is "only in New York". Yes, it has communal tables, they play rock music, and they are casual, but that, combined with the superior food, makes it *more* attractive, not less.
At minimum, I want to go to one knockout Chinese restaurant for lunch, and one finer-dining PNW/Vancouver style place for dinner. Otherwise I am pretty open to suggestions. The list I have so far is probably a bit generic and based largely on a cursory review of this board and an article in the New York Times..
For Chinese, I got a pretty solid recommendation from a friend who went there for Ho Yuen on Fraser Street.
For finer dining/PNW, I saw a recommendation on this board for Bishop's that seemed to meet my criteria. The menu looked good, I thought.
The NYT article also recommended-
Chen's Shanghai
Vij's for no-reservation upscale Indian
Tojo's for high-end sushi/Japanese
The Pourhouse (which I may have actually been to) for something on the water... it is right by my hotel. Seems good for a drink or something.
Other than Ho Yuen I am not married to any of these places, and further, would feel pretty lame basing my entire eating experience on an NYT article.
Two other things:
My wife and I very much like **spicy** food. Not "white people spicy," but really spicy. She is Korean, and I can more than keep up. So nothing is really off-limits in that arena.
One of the meals would probably be with a friend who I think tends to go for sushi or "asian-fusion" more than I might left to my own devices. So the more "Vancouver/PNW" type place will probably just be a couple's dinner, and is probably the one I'd spend the most money on (I'm a sucker for a nice tasting menu with wine pairings, especially if they're local wines. I've had the wines of Eastern Canada, and sampled a few Okanagan wines at places that had both, but would love to try more).
Oh, and finally, any good bars (dive bars, cocktail bars, anything) and a wine bar that serves local wines would also be good to know about...
I hope this gives people enough to go on. Thanks in advance for your hospitality and help.
-----
Vij's Restaurant
1480 11th Ave W, Vancouver, BC V6H1L1, CA
Ho Yuen Restaurant
6236 Fraser St, Vancouver, BC V5W, CA
Pourhouse Restaurant
162 Water Street, Vancouver, BC V6B 1B2, CA
Wine fridge - Kenmore? Vinotemp?
Having recently looked into this myself, the general impression I came away with (having owned several makes/models of the smaller-size wine refrigerators, and having a conversation with a frank salesperson at Wine Enthusiast) is that all of these types of small units that aren't true refrigerators with full-size compressors like a "real" refrigerator are, to some degree, junk (also, this has been my experience). I ended up buying an Avanti 38-bottle cellar to compliment a Wine Enthusiast-branded 28 bottle cellar - not because there was anything great about Avanti, but because (a) it at least looks decent and (b) it was cheap, and I figure if they're all junk anyway, I'll end up replacing it whether it's a $700 model or a $250 one. So far so good with it., FWIW. One day I'd love to have a nice installed one, but oh well...
Casa Mono-Feh
Hilarious review! I can't say I go there often, but part of the reason why is that my last meal there didn't really cut it, either. I think it is probably the worst Batali restaurant in NYC. I would say "the worst in America" but I have had the distinctly horrifying experience of eating at B&B in Vegas. Too bad, because I find his quality control other than at these two to be pretty darn good.
Chitown Foodies need vetting of list for special dinner tonight!
Kyo Ya is an authentic, somewhat off the radar experience that if I were in town from Chicago, would be high on my list out of what you listed. Of course, I love Jean Georges and wouldn't call it "touristy" but agree w/ others that it doesn't sound like what you are looking for, being a spacious, formal restaurant.. 15 East is very small, and I think very good. Elettaria might also fit the bill, though depending what table you get it can be cramped and somewhat noisy, too.
I would personally go and wait for Ssam Bar, and not worry too much about how cramped, stripped down or loud it was (because it will be all three), because it is also something you won't get in Chicago, and is probably as exciting as anything going in NY restaurants right now, even though it's not that new. [Editorial comment] It seems that all that anyone in New York wants to eat right now are hamburgers, pizza or something from Momofuku. Out of that lineup, IMHO, something from Momofuku is an easy bet :)
I would scratch Jewel Bako. Past its prime is, I think, the general opinion.
Vinturi - white + red?
There are some very, very long prior threads about this device. I think I could fairly sum that thread up as follows:
1. Some people detect some amount of difference when using the device, usually with some wines (younger, more tannic) more than others. Personally, I was given one as a gift and use it from time to time when I don't feel like using a decanter. I'm in the "detect some difference in some wines" camp. I think decanting is still better - besides working better, it also makes less of a mess. Of course, another alternative is to pour through a vinturi into a decanter, to "speed up" the decanting. I can't admit I've tried a side by side test of that, though I have done a side by side of "with vinturi" and "without vinturi."
2. Some people find it to be a pretty silly/useless gimmick and don't see why someone would use this thing rather than giving a vigorous few swirls in the glass or just plain decanting.
3. I don't think the prior discussion covered white vs. red vinturis, but I have a really hard time believing that whatever technology goes into it would have a dramatically different effect on white vs. red wines. Just my opinion.
As always, YMMV.
fatty crab - thumbs down
There are a few other 2-stars that are non-traditional in terms of setup, for example: momofuku ssam has 2 stars, and it's basically the same principle in terms of "food comes out when it's ready' and the watiers wear t-shirts... Bruni has also given 2 stars to Szechuan Gourmet and Spicy and Tasty... so there's some precedent. I appreciate that critics in the U.S. are more willing to give out higher ratings based on food alone - good for Bruni.
Personally I agree with you re: the UWS location. I avoided the MPD one for years because I assumed it would be a mess, and I heard a lot of complaints on this board that just going out and getting Malaysian food from a Malaysian restaurant was much better. I'm no expert in Malaysian food, so I can't comment on that, but when I finally went to the UWS location, I enjoyed the dishes. Although they were undoubtedly not authentic, I didn't find them to have the usual "dumbing down" tricks for the American palette that I can't stand, like removing all traces of spice and substituting gobs of sugar. I went on a Friday night. I don't recall it being particularly loud, and the tables were well spaced apart.
At minimum, the UWS Fatty Crab is a hell of a lot quieter than Cabrito. Just went there and wow, THAT is a serious noise level. The goat belly taco there is pretty darned good, though.
Top 5 Most Overrated in Manhattan
I think the only reason it hasn't been mentioned is I don't think anyone "rates" it highly anymore... but I agree that it is certainly one of the worst very-crowded, very-profitable restaurants I've been to (though I hear now they are having problems).
I admittedly am on the Ssam bar love train, but to each their own.
Top 5 Most Overrated in Manhattan
Sorry, the BBQ remark was (by definition) heavily overgeneralized. A better way to put it might have been, it is a regional cuisine which I don't find well represented here, regardless of which specific region is in question.
I think BBQ annoys me more than some other things because of the excessive hyping of it on food blogs, etc.
I've also never understood why the Mexican and Tex-Mex food here doesn't seem to be as good as it should be, but that's another topic....
Top 5 Most Overrated in Manhattan
Spotted Pig
Shake Shack
every single BBQ restaurant (agree with the other poster - BBQ in this city is generally weak. Yes, I've been to Dinosaur and Hill Country, probably think it or Fette Sau is the best I've had, but neither that great. See what $5 can do for you in Alabama, Tennessee, North Carolina, etc. etc. etc. and compare it to these spots).
Degustation - a phenomenon on Chowhound for some unknown reason.
Peter Luger - one of the worst restaurant experiences I've had in any city. Atrocious.
Babbo is so revered and talked-about on this board it kind of cannot help but be "overrated", but I would still say it's very, very good.
YMMV and all that.
Apiary or Perilla for a birthday dinner?
I'm a big Apiary fan, and think Scott Bryan has definitely taken the kitchen up a notch. Visited Perilla maybe a month or two after it opened and I do not plan to go back - it was "OK" in every respect, but nothing really grabbed me. I also didn't love the decor (or the decor at Apiary, for that matter).
I've had some dishes at Apiary, on the other hand, that I thought were pretty outstanding. Have been three times and not had a bad meal.
Had a really cool experience at Death & Co.
Have to second what you and others said - this place is still extremely strong. I had some of the food the other night, too, and it's actually pretty decent as well.
Skip The Spotted Pig
FWIW, *I* don't hate all Batali restaurants. In fact, I love several of them. ... Though thankfully there isn't a thread about the "B&B Ristorante" in Vegas...has to be the worst Batali spot in the country.
"Wine Product": Is it a strange and horrible new phenomenon?
I believe the reason Chateau Diana is sold in delis and non-liquor stores in NYC is that it's non-alcoholic, and therefore, OK to sell in a deli. Or at least, it has LESS alcohol. Which is why it tastes terrible, also.
That also is why they add a bunch of crap to it, I think - to try and make it taste vaguely like the real thing, of which alcohol is kinda the key ingredient :)
Why is wine by the glass so much more expensive in the US v. Europe?
To add to your point, just a thought, which may be wrong.... It seems to me that generally when you order wine in a wine-making country in Western Europe (let's just take Italy), you tend to be offered, and tend to order, domestic wines. I believe (and again, correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the case that U.S. wines, especially Napa/Sonoma/Willamette are among the most expensive to produce in the world, in particular due to the high cost of land in places like Napa Valley.
So, if you're in Italy, your wine by the glass - say, a local Sangiovese - may be priced at 4 euros. But it hasn't been subject to import duty, and it was made nearby, and it was made at a facility that likely has been owned for generations, and thus, isn't under the crushing burden of enormous mortgages that are still being paid off. That 4 euro wine may well earn the proprietor the same amount of profit as a $12 glass of wine at a U.S. restaurant.
In the U.S., your by-the-glass choices MUST by definition be either a) the "domestic" product (which, unless you are from California or a few other select places, had to travel a long way, with significant shipping costs, to get there even domestically), which is already more expensive than that Sangiovese was to begin with or b) an import, which might well be that same Sangiovese, which now costs more due to being imported.
I'm just suggesting that to make the comparison accurately, one would have to compare apples to apples - is the SAME BOTTLE by the glass considerably more, on average, in the U.S. than in Europe? And if so, how much of that is the higher price of the bottle due to it being imported?
Or is the issue just that in Western Europe, the domestic wine is already less expensive, on average, and thus, it's cheaper by the glass, too?
I have little doubt, for instance, that a glass of Napa Cabernet is cheaper by the glass in California than it would be in London or Rome (if they were even serving it at all).
Skip The Spotted Pig
Have to agree w/ you on this. It's a nice-looking place and certainly good enough as a neighborhood spot. I like the burger OK and the gnudi are good, but why people will wait around for decent but not specatcular pub food escapes me. I think April Bloomfield has done better food at the John Dory, personally.
A lot of the Pig's popularity, as seems to be an issue with a lot of W. Village spots, seems to derive from the celebrity clientele.
Ontario Wine Tasting Best Bets?
Thanks! No, not too late - going over 4th of July, so still plenty of time. Have my Stone Road reservation booked... Thanks for the winery recs as well, I'll add those to my list.
Del- I'd be interested in a reservation at Le Clos Jordanne. My email is the same as my Chowhound handle, just add at gmail dot com to the end. If I don't hear from you, I'll just email the winery directly.
Ontario Wine Tasting Best Bets?
Thank you - that is helpful.
It seems from that thread that in addition to Inniskillin, 30 Bench and Daniel Lenko are well regarded. Are there others that are favorites of yours?
