I can relate to the consistency issue. I've had bad meals at every one of these places and it was frustrating because I knew the kitchens were capable of putting out great food.

But ever since I learned that Monday is a common day off for Chinese chefs (this may very well be common knowledge but I just found this out a year or so ago), I've stopped ordering on Mondays and those issues have all but gone away for me. I also try to avoid Tuesdays just in case.

Lan Sheng is a prime example. Early on, I had really fantastic meals that surpassed Szechuan Gourmet's but then I would have a couple of pretty bad ones. Since there continued to be good reviews, I never completely gave up on Lan Sheng and then the whole consistency issue went away when I stopped ordering on Mon/Tues. Lan Sheng is my current favorite of the bunch.

Besides Lan Sheng, the above pertains to Hunan Manor, Szechuan Gourmet, and Cafe China. (Though possible downhill alert for Cafe China - my recent bad experience matches those reported by others.) And I only order the more traditional/authentic dishes and not the Americanized Chinese ones in case that matters.

I haven't been to Mission Chinese but certainly I would recommend the Sichuan places. I guess you don't like them? Those aren't the only places recommended on this board anyway. Plenty of discussion of spots in Manhattan Chinatown as well as those in the outer boroughs.

You're comparing a Cantonese restaurant in Boston Chinatown (that is well-regarded on the Chowhound board - I did a quick search) with a likely below-average Chinese American place in the UES (I'm guessing based on your posts upthread)?

Your argument is pretty flawed.

Also, New Yorkers who do care about having better Chinese food put a little effort and travel to other parts of the city and the outer boroughs.

Okay, I can see why you have a negative view of Chinese food in New York if you've been mainly eating at places in the UES. But I have to say, it's not really fair to make generalizations about New York Chinese food if you haven't eaten extensively in the Chinatowns.

I used to spend a lot of time in the UES and the only Chinese place I would order from was Wu Liang Ye on 86th Street (which closed a few years ago). It was an okay Sichuan restaurant. It certainly wasn't that great in comparison to the other Sichuan joints in Manhattan at the time (and the Sichuan landscape has gotten a lot better since then), let alone the Chinese places in Manhattan Chinatown, let alone the places in the outer boroughs.

For whatever reason, you keep on using the words "world-class city" and the quality of Chinese food seems to be very important to you in judging whether a city is worthy (I’m not sure why as every city has strengths and weaknesses). But I think you really have to try out the better Chinese places here. Do a search on this board. There are a lot of good tips.

You may very well be right that Chinese restaurants in New York City are not as good as those in Boston or Montreal. I don't know myself as I haven't eaten extensively in those cities.

But it would be helpful to understand your point of reference. Could you give examples of Chinese places in NYC that you've been to? Are you going to places like Ollie's or places like Szechuan Gourmet?

And when you say NYC, are you including 1) the Chinatowns, and 2) the outer boroughs? I ask, because you mention the humble egg roll which I generally associate with Americanized Chinese food and not the more authentic Chinese food that I think most people on this thread are discussing.

I can't offer a recent opinion on Spicy & Tasty since I haven't gone in at least 2-3 years (pretty much ever since all these places in Midtown opened up). At that time, I felt that these Manhattan places were good enough to not bother going out to Flushing anymore, at least for Szechuan food.

This is my mini-rundown of some of the places in the article.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8740...

Since then, I have visited La Vie once or twice and thought the food didn't measure up to Lan Sheng and Szechuan Gourmet. I also had one not-good experience at Cafe China a couple of months ago (consistent with some downhill reports here) where the food was overly sweet. I haven't gone back since so I'm not sure if it's truly gone downhill.

I'd stick with Lan Sheng and Szechuan Gourmet which are also a reasonable walk from your hotel. Or if you want to try Hunan food, I think Hunan Manor is really good.

I live in New York and am pretty happy with the Chinese food here (and in particular the Sichuan places in Manhattan - the original point of this thread). Maybe I just don't know better. I don't really care. It only matters to me whether I can get good food, not whether they're the best.

On the other hand, having spent some time browsing the LA board recently for a trip, it seems to me that people there do care (and not just about Chinese food). Many comments on how their city compares to others. This is just one of the threads I came across:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/894739

I also found, after posting a trip report, that Angelenos are quite defensive about In-n-Out burgers. =)

Went to a couple of them. I think the one in South Park (it was in a parking lot on Elm Street) and another in the Toys R Us parking lot about a 15 minute or so drive south of the Gaslamp Quarter (I think in Chula Vista?).

Thanks! Relied entirely on Chowhound for my San Diego eats and it worked out well!

Well, I try to avoid McDonald's when possible. I have it maybe once a year and mainly in airports or on the road with no other choices.

But I'll take your word that In-n-Out is usually better than McDonald's. No need for a taste test for me. I'm just going to avoid both places when possible.

The In-n-Out burger was just plain bad and not even worth the cheap price in my opinion. It really wasn't better than a McDonald's burger. To be fair, maybe it was just an off experience since I did have it a few years ago and thought it was fine then (though nothing special).

Fair point on whether it's fair to compare to Shake Shack. The Shake Shake comparison came to mind given the similar style and the fact that burgers are cooked to order in both places. Also, Shake Shack has become a mini-chain over the past few years. I normally get a single shack burger and it's about $5 including tax.

Though I wonder if LA prices are just generally lower than NY's. Based on this trip, it seemed that way. And even when the menu prices seem comparable (Red Medicine, Animal), the portions were a bit bigger in LA.

You should give Shake Shack a try when in New York and in the mood for a burger. I would emphasize though that it is not worth the sometimes very long lines.

I was trying to fit in some Mexican places because I had read that it was a strength of LA.

The Monte Alban pick was based on this board. As far as the dishes we chose, they were recommended by our server although I'm pretty sure the moles were mentioned here as well.

The Loteria Grill choice was mainly out of convenience (I went to the one in the Farmers market close to our hotel). Though I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't also mentioned here.

We attempted to go to a Mexican place in Koreatown (I think we got that rec somewhere else) but without a reservation, it was a 40 minute wait so we headed back to our hotel instead and went to Son of a Gun for a second time.

No, the brussel sprouts were not on the tasting. The menu we had is still posted on the website.

Recently spent a few days in San Diego and ate well due to help from this board. Here are some quick notes:

Café Chloe – had some sort of polenta soup which was excellent. Also had the jidori chicken entree which was pretty good as well though the sauce and the chicken livers on the plate were a little too rich for me. The restaurant vibe was nice and felt like a comfortable neighborhood spot.

Jsix – Had the field greens salad and the black tellicherry pepper pappardelle. Both were excellent. Cocktails were also pretty good. This restaurant was located in my hotel and it felt very much like a hotel restaurant.

Lion’s Share – the Bouchwagon cocktail was fantastic. Food was also excellent. Enjoyed the corn and tomato salad and the frog legs.

Super Cocina – enjoyable lunch. They gave me samples of a few dishes before I decided on a pork dish and an egg dish. Very good homestyle food.

Mariscos food trucks – great fish tacos and ceviche. Also liked the hot sauces available.

Bird Rock Coffee – excellent latte and nice vibe.

Lucy’s Tacos – had a carne asada taco and a carnitas taco. Meats were dry but I liked the hot sauce provided.

Tender Greens – grabbed some excellent salads here for my flights back home. Got the backyard steak salad and another salad with salami and pickled vegetables. Wish we had these types of places in New York.

Recently visited from NY and ate pretty well overall in LA. Here are some quick notes:

Red Medicine – pretty disappointing given the raves on this board and the relatively high price point compared to our other meals. Went on a weekday evening and place was maybe about 1/3 full the entire time. Service and cocktails were excellent. We opted for the tasting menu and came away feeling that while the presentations were beautiful and there was obviously a great deal of creativity in the dishes, the meal was not very satisfying. Some dishes seemed overly complicated while there were also some execution errors.

Specifically, we very much enjoyed the trout roe dish, were mixed on the leek and Dungeness crab dishes, may have enjoyed the toasted grains and cereal if it were not for the overly salty broth, and thought the mugifuji pork dish (we substituted for the lamb dish) was a complete miss due to the overcooked pork and flavor combinations that were just weird. Desserts were very good. Really liked the birch ice dessert and another one that they brought out for us (I think the coconut bavarois).

Son of a Gun – probably my favorite meals of the trip (ate here twice as it was conveniently located next door to our hotel). Tried 5 or 6 raw dishes and really enjoyed them though there were a couple where it seemed one component slightly overpowered the dishes (yuzu in one, palm sugar in another). The baquetta collar and the linguine and clams were awesome. Fried chicken sandwich was good but nothing special. Service and cocktails were excellent. Wait was about 15-30 minutes both nights around 9, 9:30.

Soot Bull Jeep – great Korean bbq. We grabbed an early dinner here before a game at the Staples Center. Enjoyed the short ribs and shrimp. The panchan were good as well.

Gjelina – great brunch. Wait was about a half hour or so around 1:30pm on a weekend afternoon. Had eggs with prosciutto, a side of bacon, braised artichokes, and sugar snap peas.

Animal – very good dinner. Enjoyed every dish including the tendon chips, bone marrow (maybe could have used a little more salt), burrata, poutine, beef heart, and quail. Only quibble of the meal is we were rushed at the end. Servers kept coming by our table to check on us, and while I understand that they were anxious to close up, I don’t like being rushed since they only offered us a 10pm reservation. We ended up getting some food packed up to go and were out of the restaurant by 11:15 (this was a Sunday night).

Pink’s hot dog – stopped in when we noticed no line when driving by around lunchtime. Nothing special. Grilled mushrooms and onions on one dog were fine. Chili on another dog was pretty bad. Onion rings though were excellent. I much prefer the hot dogs back home at one of the Papayas (Gray’s Papaya, Papaya King, etc) where they are grilled instead of however Pink’s cooks them (steamed or boiled?).

In-n-Out – really not good at all. Went around 4pm one afternoon when we needed some food to tide us over until dinner. I had In-n-Out once before a few years ago and remember it being okay. I ordered a burger animal style and just really disliked it this time around. Shake Shack in NY is so much better for a fast-food style burger.

Monte Alban – just okay. Came here for a late lunch and had cactus salad, mole negro, and carnes monte alban (grilled beef and pork). The chicken in mole negro was overcooked and I’m also starting to realize that I don’t like moles or at least chocolate-based sauces after having it a few times over the years. Also discovered I don’t like cactus. The carnes monte alban was pretty good as were the chips on the table. A few families sitting around us were having soups so perhaps that was the way to go.

Zankou Chicken – the 1/4 dark chicken meal was really bad. Chicken was mushy. Hummus was good though as was the chicken tarna sandwich.

Loteria Grill – had huevos rancheros one morning. Okay, nothing special.

Huckleberry – great salads for lunch.

Clementine – excellent scones and coffee. Corn muffin and banana bread were okay.

Joan’s on Third – great coffee and scones. Other pastries we tried were alright. New York breakfast sandwich was very good but also really heavy (I could only eat half).

Kogi BBQ truck – really good short rib taco. Wish I had room to try more but we just happened to be walking by one of their trucks and weren’t hungry.

Miscellaneous – excellent coffee at Lamill and Intelligentsia, okay coffee at Urth Caffe.

I just picked up Rustico Organic beans at the Dean & Deluca store in Soho a couple of days ago. I suggest checking the roasting dates before buying as they sometimes keep old beans on the shelves.

My usual go-to place for Counter Culture beans is Everyman Espresso on E 13th St. It typically has a pretty wide selection.

Other shops where I've seen retail bags in the past include Lucid Cafe (37th and Lex) and Culture Espresso (38th and 6th). Not sure if they always have them though.

I get that you were comparing to Bagel Express. My point was Zucker's prices are not necessarily out of line with other well-regarded spots in the city. (Based on the online menu, Ess-a-bagel's prices look like they might even be higher than Zucker's.) Maybe Bagel Express is just unusually cheap?

Anyway, up to the individual whether Zucker's is worth the prices.

Motosport, with all due respect, what answer did you expect? If Zucker's is not competitive and business is not good, it will adjust eventually.

I've been back to Zucker's a few times and continue to enjoy the bagels and cream cheese. The quality is good and worth the slightly higher prices for me. Service has gotten somewhat better.

And out of curiosity, I looked up the prices for Ess-a-bagel (which I personally don't like) on its website. Its lox and cream cheese seem just as pricey.

I order from Cafe China regularly. My favorite dishes from there are the Chengdu wontons, mouth-watering chicken, mapo tofu, and pickle and fish stew.

Enjoy your meal!

And when a poster says "have you been to uh Mexico", that's not arrogant at all. Or how about when a poster says "it's clear you have no idea what real Mexican food is". That's the issue. Disagreeing with a characterization of a food is fine but I think some of the comments in this thread are unnecessarily haughty. My opinion of course.

I have to agree with Perilagu Khan and Wawsanham. It's implied that when one says he/she likes or dislikes a cuisine, it's based on specific experiences and what's available to him/her. I think most people are not basing their opinion on the entirety of that cuisine. Or at the very least, they're willing to concede that they might have a different opinion on another variation of that cuisine (i.e. more traditional dishes, foods actually cooked in the country of origin, foods from a different region of that country).

And in response to cresyd's comments above that it would be more helpful for people to articulate why they don't like a cuisine....well, for me personally, I'm not going to spend five minutes trying to pinpoint exactly why I haven't enjoyed XYZ cuisine in the past when we're just trying to pick a place for lunch.

I don't know how to think about this exchange. If someone were to ask me to describe American food, I don't think I could since there is a decent amount of regional variation not to mention ethnic influences.

In New York City, you have iconic foods like pizza, bagels, Jewish deli, etc. Maybe American food is comfort food like mac and cheese, fried chicken, burgers, hot dogs? But then it's not fair to exclude the different barbecue styles in the South. And then how about the Americanized-whatever (Chinese, Mexican, etc) that exists in most areas of the country...

I don't think anyone is trashing an entire cuisine on this thread. Some people are merely expressing their dislike of a cuisine and why they would rather not eat that cuisine again. They're not going around telling everyone that a cuisine is horrible and that others should be avoiding it.

I would think it's a shame the foreigner only experienced American food that way and as a result would rather not give it another try. His loss, oh well. And if I really liked American food myself, I probably won't be eating many meals with that person.

But really, who's being hurt by someone dismissing a cuisine? I guess I just don't get all the objections on this thread. I don't get calling others ignorant just because they don't have the inclination to invest more time and money in a cuisine in which they have not had good experiences with in the past.

I posted about my visit to Zucker's yesterday on another thread. Also experienced good food and poor service (they screwed up my order too). Willing to overlook service for now since it just opened.

I also thought prices seemed high but was attributing that to never really paying attention to bagel prices in the past!

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8757...

mpad, it seems that you are saying one needs to be an expert in order to have the right to say he/she dislikes something. And you seem to be defensive about Mexican food and a poster expressing his dislike of the cuisine. No need to be...we all have different tastes and that's fine.

Let's look at it another way. Say I have only had Mexican food in New York City and I enjoy it. But people say that Mexican food here is mediocre. Does that mean I don't have the right to say I like it? Of course not. You can certainly say though that you don't know if I would appreciate Mexican food as you've experienced it.

Obviously, likes and dislikes are shaped by experience. You may discount someone's opinion because he/she hasn't had the "right" or "enough" experience to match yours. But that's okay. Isn't that the good thing about the chowhound board? Over time, you figure out how whose tastes and opinions are the ones you want to weigh more and which ones you may want to ignore.

Really, this is just food. Those posting on this thread and probably most who post on Chowhound are pretty lucky to have access to different cuisines and have choices.

Did your friend talk in absolutes? If so, then the problem you have is the way he expressed his opinion. Otherwise, I don't understand your bafflement and some of the other posts that suggest a person is ignorant if he/she expresses a dislike of a cuisine.

What if, for example, I have not had good experiences with Mexican food in the past? Moving forward, I am probably not going to seek out Mexican food. If there are non-Mexican options, I will probably go with those. Certainly I don't feel the need to prove that I don't like Mexican food by trying every single dish. Am I not allowed to say that I dislike Mexican food?

Just had an everything bagel with scallion cream cheese from the newly opened Zucker's at 41st and Lexington. Pretty good in my opinion. Good texture and flavor. I'll note that staff was very friendly but also obviously inexperienced...hopefully service will get better over time.

I will say I'm not a fan of Ess-a-bagel. I have them on occasion because friends/co-workers continue to buy them but I find its bagels too big and lacking in flavor. Also after nasty service a few years ago at the downtown shop, I will never go back myself again.

On a different note, I haven't really paid much attention to bagel prices but talk about food inflation. I seem to remember paying $0.60 for a bagel not too long ago (okay maybe going back 10 years or so). A bagel now costs $1.15!

Are there any good Indian-Chinese restaurants around? Or Indian places that happen to have some good Indian-Chinese dishes on their menus. Preferably Manhattan, but outer boroughs would be okay too.

In the past, I enjoyed Chinese Mirch in Curry Hill. But I stopped eating from there about a year or so ago because I was finding its meat to be very low quality. And going back 5-10 years ago, some Indian friends took me to a place in Queens that was very good. I think somewhere on the service road of the LIE.

What prompted my post was Bob Martinez's thread on Chote Nawab (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/885389). I wouldn't have given his post a second thought as I'm not crazy about Indian food itself but he mentioned having an Indo-Chinese dish there. I'm interested to hear of any other places serving this cuisine. Thanks.

In Manhattan, I really like the jerk chicken from the Jamaican Dutchy food truck. Not sure where it normally parks now.

I have also had very good Jamaican food from the truck parked near the Cornell hospital. Though it's been a while and I can't remember if I've ever tried the jerk chicken there.