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is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

Yep, that's basically the stuff there, except that I scrounged them battered and had them tinned myself, keeping the total cost to about 1/2 to 2/3 of what she's asking.

Apr 07, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

No, this wasn't new stuff. These were well- (or ill-) used, and needed tinning, except for the lids, which both had nice tin. My guess is that they are 70's or 80's vintage--the standard professional-grade 1/8" hammered copper that they carried for a long time.

Apr 07, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

There are 3+mm small saucepans out there aplenty. You will have to sleuth a little to find them, and sometimes you have to read between the lines to figure out what you are looking at. A lot of sellers on ebay and CL will only say "small pan" or "5" pan," etc, so you might need to calculate volumes, get weights on the pans, ask for rough comparisons of wall thickness to coins, etc.

A couple of years ago, I decided that I wanted to get a set--not matched or anything--of saucepans and lids in thick tin-lined copper. It took a couple of weeks, but I was able to find tin-lined hammered copper 3.2mm (1/8") pans in 3qt (Williams Sonoma), 2qt (Williams Sonoma), and 3/4qt (Dehillerin) sizes. I rarely use anything between 3 cups and 2 quarts, so I didn't need the 1 1/4--1 1/2 size that is commonly seen. I separately located appropriately sized, and perfectly flat, lollipop lids for the larger two. If I ever find a lollipop for the small one, I'll pick it up, but I wouldn't use it too often. If memory serves, each piece was in the $30--$50 range.

Peter's pans are very good, but without the lids, I'd probably go looking for singles elsewhere. My set of Peter's is a little thinner than Kaleo's, but it is still a very nice set. If you call RMR, you'll probably be talking with Erik, not Peter, but Erik is great to work with. Even if you don't get their pans, I highly recommend their retinning services. They've always done great work for me with a quick turnaround time. My last acquisition was a 3.2mm, 11", 10qt casserole with lid that was battered. The pot was practically oval, the bottom was severely bowed, and the lid was bent and very wobbly. I normally wouldn't pursue a pan like that, but it literally cost me $5. So I sent it off to Erik, and he put it right. It still has some scars, but it's round, the bottom is flatter than I ever thought it would be, and the lid fits right!

Anyway, there's a lot of great copper out there, and like your 4mm pans, there are amazing pieces to be found. Good luck with your search!

Apr 07, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

But don't measure the interior height from the center bottom. Measure from near the wall, as many pans bow up in the center and have the tendency to flatten out only when hot, as I understand it.

Apr 05, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Handles and Rivets for Copper Cookware

Yeah, that looks like a stainless-lined pan with copper rivets to me too. Odd.

Mary's a great source of information!

Mar 28, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Handles and Rivets for Copper Cookware

Unless I'm mistaken, I've seen tinned copper rivets before. That's what the photo above looks like to me. The more I look at copper cookware, the less any aberration surprises me. I get the sense that any possible combination has happened at some point, and that most manufacturers were not locked down to a particular specification. They probably used whatever was on hand to get the job done. That's my guess!

Mar 28, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Harsch Crock water seal problems

Actually, it works the other way around. The more headspace (i.e. the more air) is inside the crock, the worse the the impact of pressure change is. If there is liquid inside, right up to the moat, external barometric pressure changes will have little to no effect on the interior. And an empty crock will exhibit the most extreme impact on the water in the moat.

Mar 27, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Harsch Crock water seal problems

You missed one--barometric pressure changes. The pressure inside will equalize with the pressure outside the pot, which is why the water seal works to allow CO2 out. But the downside to the Harsch system is that if the barometric pressure rises, air needs to get into the pot. This happens by the atmosphere forcing the water in the seal (moat) back into the pot. The greater the headspace you've left inside the pot, the worse the effect is.

This same effect cause me the ruin of 3 gallons of kraut, and I've since transitioned entirely to 1/2 gallon mason jars with airlocks inserted into drilled-out lids. Works like a charm!

Mar 27, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Best way to spend $300 at C&B

I don't have a comment on the pans you are considering, but you could consider selling the credit for a slightly reduced price via Craigslist, and buying whatever you want, wherever you want, for say $275.

Mar 24, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

I know you asked Kaleo, but I'll chime on on the utensil piece. I use olive wood and maple spoons, ladles, and scrapers. For plactics, I like the Vollrath spatulas ( http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollr... ) I keep a silicone whisk around for when I must whisk on tin, but it honestly does a poor job. In my opinion the solution to the whisk issue is to keep one stainless-lined pan around for sauces that require whisking, and have at it with a proper whisk.

May I ask how much they charged for shipping? I am looking at another pan they have on offer.

Mar 21, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

So what did they sell for. I went to check them out, and they are sold!

Mar 20, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

is 2mm thick adequate for a vintage copper tin lined sauteuse evasee?

Hi Kaleo,

I'm guessing you are being fast and loose with your percentages here, but out of curiosity, 2% is 1 in 50, so what 1 pan out of any given 50 pans (or even 1 in 50 11" Sauteuse Evasee) out there are equal to or better than a 3mm copper variant? I would have thought you'd put 2.5mm at 98%--99% and 3mm at 99.5% or better!

Jeremy

Mar 19, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Cleaning, washing tin lined cooper - what do you do, use ?

That said, Kaleo, I use the 3M Scotch-Brite blue scrubbies, which they call the "Non-Scratch Scrub Sponge," and they work great with no ill effect on the tin. That said, I always flip it to the sponge side to work around rivets and the corner edges of the rim, but for cleaning cooked-on food residue or dried gunk on the floor or sides of the pan, the blue scrubbies work great. They are abrasive enough to grip and strip debris, but they don't brighten darkened tin. I wouldn't let a green scrubbie anywhere near my tin-lined pans though!

Mar 06, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Tin-lined copper + Caramel sauce= whoopsy?

Feb 21, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

Best use of two new, copper pots/pans

You are getting good advice here! I have a thick copper tin-lined saute, and my technique is to add the fat before the heat (often a combo of butter and EVOO) and as it approaches the smoking point, I know it's hot enough to sear but still well shy of the melting point of tin. (This is basically the sauteing technique J. Child describes in volume 1 of Mastering the Art of French Cooking.) Works like a charm.

Use that stockpot and don't be afraid of it. Use it for soups, stocks, sauces, brining, and steam to your hearts content! If there is water in it, and if the flames don't lap up the side past the water line, you should not melt tin. The water will absorb the energy. Just don't let it run dry or let the flames lap up the sides.

These pans are tougher than much of the internet banter would lead you to believe, and since you already have a little tin smearing and pooling in the saute, push it until you find the melting point. All you are likely to do is rearrange the puddling pattern in the bottom of your pan. The best way to know where that line is is to cross it.

Feb 11, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

How can I remove the red wine stain from outside of my Staub pumpkin dish?

I don't know if BA would scratch it, but BKF would likely leave scrub marks.

Alternatively, you could leave it, and in a year or two of cooking the accumulated stains will render the wine stain invisible!

Feb 11, 2015
jljohn in Cookware

duck press

Yea, but that "built-in stainless steel pressure relief valve to avoid blowouts" might just blow out under the pressure of a pressed duck.

Dec 20, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Please Rate my new Copper Pan

Gary,

How do you handle the magnetic aspect of the lining if you're sure it's tin? Frankly, it looks and sounds like nickel to me. If it's tin, it's not hand-wiped tin. I've never seen wiped tin that smooth, especially around the rivets, in the corners, and long the rim. It's just too perfect. Plus, while the rivets appear to be copper from the inside, they look like SS from the outside (although that could be silvery tarnish). In any case, SS rivets are a must on SS-lined pans, but copper rivets can be tinned or nickeled. I'd bet on nickel.

Dec 17, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

What's your Everyday Essentials Pan

The two pans that stay on the stovetop and see the lion's share of the work are a 9.5"/3qt Sauteuse Evasee (aka a Windsor) and an 11"/4.5qt Saute. Both are thick tin-lined copper. These are my essential pans--if I were moving to a tiny house and could only have two pans, these would be my pans!

Dec 12, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Nutcracker recommendations?

I've never seen the Nutcracker in a grocery store. Perhaps that's why the dancers were slipping and sending nuts flying across the room. Williams Sonoma would be even worse--no room to pirouette! Again, nuts would be flying across the room. Try the ballet.

More to the point, apart from the tradition cheapo nutcracker and the hammer method, the only two other types of which I am aware are a lever style ( http://www.amazon.com/Nut-Cracker-Duk... ) and the screw style ( http://www.amazon.com/Stone-Creek-Tra... ) I'd try the lever.

Dec 09, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Falk 18cm Signature Saucier Tipping Over

Frankly, I'd be on the phone with Falk about this one. Not only is it poor design, it seems to me that this is a liability for them. Make a video of the problem and send it to the folks at Falk, or just call Falk USA and see what they are willing to do. In my opinion, a pan with a flat bottom should be stable, even when empty and even when set on a plane that is off a few degrees from level. At the very least, try the one with the cast iron handle, as it has a fair bit of mass in close to the pan and should be less unstable.

Dec 07, 2014
jljohn in Cookware
1

Nasty film on my hands after cutting butternut squash

We make butternut squash with some regularity, and the film is not as a result of a reaction between the skin and the squash. It appears on the hand holding the squash and on the cutting board. It looks and feels like a thin layer of super glue. I think it is just the slightly slimy and sticky squash sap that has dried out on your hands. It is annoying and unsightly, but in my case, I just wash and scrub my hands, and some of it comes off, and, usually, by the time I'm through eating and washing up, the rest is worn or washed off.

If it causes you a problem, I can see being bothered by it, but this is one of those things like orange tinted fingers after cutting a lot of carrots or garlicky hands after peeling a bulb that is just a part of cooking. It's part and parcel of a physical connection with food.

Dec 04, 2014
jljohn in General Topics

Am I the only one bothered by stuff like this?

So a tin-lined copper stockpot really is the best! :). I didn't need a study to know that.

Dec 01, 2014
jljohn in Cookware
1

Perfex Pepper Mill vs Perfex Salt & Pepper Set

If anyone has any knowledge about the Perfex Mills, I'd love some help here. I want just a pepper mill. As I look around, I see the Perfex Salt and Pepper sets selling for about $90 at full retail ( example: http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO... ), whereas, the pepper mill by itself seems to cost about $95--$100 (see here: http://www.amazon.com/Perfex-Crank-Pe... ). They seem to be the same height and everything. So, what gives? Does perfex make different quality levels? Am I missing something? Why would the retail price on the salt and pepper set be less than just the pepper mill if there is no difference? Were there corners cut on the set?

Thanks!

Dec 01, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Using a Nordic nonstick bundt pan on stovetop?

I've had good luck calling Nordic Ware before. Give that a try. I'm guessing that they will tell you no, but that aluminum is fairly thick. I don't see why it, or the interior lining, would have a problem. I'd be worried about the exterior coating though. It probably wouldn't handle the heat very well.

Nov 25, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Copper cookware vs All Clad Copper Core Cookware

Hi Kaleo,

I wonder what's going on. It's been well over a year--maybe even a year and a half--since he stopped taking order, and his statements always make it seem like the pans are just around the corner. This time last year, it was going to be Spring 2014, then Summer. I am really rooting for him, but I don't see this moving along much at all.

I wonder what Mac is trying to accomplish differently than Jim with DH&M ( http://www.dhandm.com/Copper_Cookware... ), because in Mac's absence from the market, Jim has put a handful of pans out there, seemingly without the difficulty in sourcing parts. Admittedly, I haven't asked Jim where the handles are being cast, but he's clearly using iron and brass handles.

I hope Jim can ramp up a full line and Mac can get back into the market soon, then we'll have a couple of good domestic (or at least partly domestic) options.

Nov 19, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Copper cookware vs All Clad Copper Core Cookware

Sorry Mikie, I missed the rounded anvil! In that case, it would work extremely well for these measurements. The one I used had a flat spindle and anvil, so that's simply what I saw when I glanced at your link.

I actually never realized that micrometers were limited to screw-type devices!

Nov 19, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Copper cookware vs All Clad Copper Core Cookware

Mikie,

I grew up using a Starrett, and they are fantastic for most applications but not for the round sides of cookware. Since the Starrett has a thick spindle, it amplifies the problem of curvature of the walls. Amazing micrometer though!

Now, can you please explain to me how this device (which you are calling a dial indicator) is not a micrometer? Or is it just a specialized type of micrometer?

Thanks!

Jeremy

Nov 19, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Copper cookware vs All Clad Copper Core Cookware

And here is an example of a 2.5mm SS-lined pan that is mis-measured and mis-stated, despite using the proper type of calipers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mafter-Bourge...

Kaleo, are these the calipers you said you don't see used on ebay?

Nov 19, 2014
jljohn in Cookware

Copper cookware vs All Clad Copper Core Cookware

"Whoa there, I wasn't accusing you of having any connection to the ebay seller, and if I implied anything of that sort, I apologize. But I don't think I did."

No worries--I didn't read you to be saying that. I was being preemptive! I recognized that my passion on the subject could be mistaken for a financial interest in the pan, and I wanted to avoid anything of the sort. It's all good.

I think that the iron handle is the x factor that will prevent an accurate weight calculation. Why don't you buy the pan, (I'll cover shipping), and we'll have it shipped directly to Kaleo's bandsaw for a final analysis? :)

Nov 18, 2014
jljohn in Cookware