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Tips on making croissants?


The 82% fat in European style butter is there to seal in the moisture for the rise. However, if 76% is all you can get...go with that! matter what you do with the butter block, the butter must remain 'refrigerator' cold and as pliable as the dough!

Take a look at this and get back to me!


Aug 22, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Croissant help - flour/butter

Think of the scraps in the next day's dough as a Pate Fermente.


Aug 19, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?


OK...the 58% or any percentage for that matter is a fraction of the total flour, not the dough, in the whole recipe.

So...if your 58% is the fraction of the whole formula, then 1/3 of the butter goes in each of the 5 pound segments.

Let's assume that the 58% represents 9 pounds of butter, (for the whole 15 pounds of dough) then you need to make 3 - 3 pound butter blocks, one for each division of the 15 pounds of dough.

Gee...I hope that is clear!


Aug 15, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?


Go to

I will give you the file.

Then I will ask that you bring the discussion back here so all can benefit from our process!


Aug 11, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Croissant help - flour/butter

Very nicely done...!!!!!!!!

The amount of trimmings is so small that the gluten developed there will not matter in the next batch.

The trick in using fat in croissant or puff pastry is to trap the steam caused by baking. Think of the fat as a sealant. If Milk solids work, and I don't know why they wouldn't...great. I'm guessing the only difference there "may" be is on is taste but I'm not so sure of that either.

I'll have to go find the March 15 posting. However, your schedule sounds just fine.

Great job!!!!!


Aug 11, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Croissant help - flour/butter

Hi Chef:

Well...the all purpose flour is the one to use! Hi gluten flour will make way too much gluten.

Right may be mixing too long. Remember, all the gluten you need will come from the roll out process.

Mix the dough JUST until it comes together, then roll it out, cover it and in the fridge over night!

When in the mixer, if the dough looks like it needs more doesn't.

Also, over night in the fridge will form gluten. Gluten starts as soon as moisture hits the flour and the mixing process, in this case does not help.

Let's start steps...and see where that goes.

I'm here for you!

Adagio Bakery

Jun 13, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?


If you look down at any posts by read from the oldest to the newest.

In the meantime, if you like, I have a formula and method that would help.

email me and I'll send it to you. However, we keep all discussions about tips and techniques on here so that everyone can benefit.

Croissant are at the "harder" end of baking, but the process is just steps. Anyone can master it and I have a slew of tips that home bakers can use to get there fast.

regards and happy baking!

May 17, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Hi Chef:

I would freeze them just like bread. After baking, let them cool, cut them in half and put them in a freezer bag outside to outside. This way they won't freeze together. You can take them out individually and pop them in the toaster...YUM!

Croissant is being covered in depth on the board:

"Tips on making Croissant?" right here on chow. We've been at it for quite some time. See you there!

Happy baking,


Apr 09, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Hi Chef:

Yes it is...a "quick bread" more or less.

If you want to go "yeast", I would use a challah formula.

If you want one, email me and I'll scoot it off to you.


Apr 08, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?


Great job...and it's all about the butter.

Remember that the butter has to be as pliable as the dough!

Not warm, pliable.

The first insertion of the butter is generally the problem.

When you make your butter block, and get there by beating the butter with a rolling pin, it has to remain cold, cold, cold.

Ok...but here is where you have to be careful: when it's time to remove the butter from its temporary home in the parchment envelope, you have to make sure it's once again pliable. We do this by tapping it squarely with the rolling pin and then rolling the entrapped butter over the edge of the work table. You watch the butter as your gently bending it over the edge of the table. If it cracks, it's cold...but not pliable. Back to the table and the rolling pin beating.

When you can slide the butter over the edge of the table trying to give it a slight bend, and there is no're there.

The butter must be the same as the dough.

From there you trap the butter in the dough and roll it out to about 3/8 ths of an inch.

The more turns, the thinner the butter. By the second turn the butter is pretty thin and pliability isn't a problem.

Also...and perhaps, that first roll out isn't thin enough...9mm or about 3/8 of an more!

I would then give it a single turn, roll it out again to 9mm, then back in the fridge.

Ok...let me know what you think!

Remember...this takes practice and you are doing great!


Apr 08, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home


The stuff below is not exactly "bread baking" but fun for the upcoming season. I thought I would share.

I have very traditional challah with a two strand braid...excel spread sheet.

email me.

Ciao and happy baking!


Apr 07, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Very "Italian" and if you're feeling suicidal...this will probably do in...but it's soooooooooooooo good!

Traditional Italian Ham Pie
(Aunt Theresa’s, Uncle Vito named, “Slop Bucket Pie”)

Makes 2- 9” X 13” deep dish pies

Eggs whole 456 grams
All purpose flour 960 grams
Shortening 150 grams
Milk 240 grams
Salt 9 grams

Filling (ingredients can be varied according to your traditions)
1 dozen hard boiled eggs
12 eggs
½ cup Italian parsley (chopped fine)
1 ½ cups grated Locatelli cheese
2 lbs sweet Italian sausage (remove casings)
1 lb Mozzarella cheese. (cubed, not fresh…too wet! The kind you buy in the supermarket is fine)
½ lb Prosciutto, cubed
1 lb provolone cheese (cubed)
1 lb boiled ham (cubed)
1 lb Genoa salami (cubed)
Butter & Olive Oil (for the pan)

Crust Preparation

Mix flour and salt together, cut in shortening with 2 knives or pastry cutters
Kneading by hand is fine.
If you use a machine with a dough hook, mix only until the dough comes together. Too much mixing will form too
much gluten and the dough will be tough. Plenty of gluten will be formed in the sheeting process. This is really not pastry dough, it’s more like pasta dough. The shortening lightens it a bit. Oil can be used instead.

Add beaten eggs to flour mixture slowly, incorporating very well.

Add milk (additional liquid if necessary) to hold mixture together as it is kneaded.

Shape pastry in to 4 balls
Two balls 580 grams (for the bottom)
Two balls 326 grams (for the top)

Rest for 30 minutes or until ready to begin making the pie.

Filling Preparation

Hard boil dozen eggs; cool, peel, cut in quarters and set aside.
Place eggs in a large pot, on layer deep
Cover with cold water by at least an inch
Add Salt and white vinegar
Bring pot to a full boil
Simmer for one minute
Remove from heat and let stand for 12 minutes
Stop the cooking by adding ice or cold water
Peel as soon as the eggs are able to be handles. Peel under cool water if necessary.

Remove the sausage meat from the casings, cook, and set aside in a small bowl.
Option: purchase ground pork and season it as you would sausage.

In another small bowl place all the mozzarella, cut into ¼ inch cubes

In another small bowl place all the provolone, cut into ¼ inch cubes.

Do the same for the ham, salami, and prosciutto, set aside keeping all the ingredients separate.

EGG Fill

Wisk, or in a blender, mix 12 eggs, parsley, ½ cup grated Locatelli. Wisk vigorously or machine blend, and set aside.
This will be used as the holding agent to keep all the ingredients together.

Pie Assembly

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.

Lightly grease pan with butter, then olive oil.

Roll rested dough on a floured board to 1/8 inch thickness

Roll the larger pieces out into 2 large rectangles to fit into a 9 X 13 inch deep dish glass pie plate.
Roll the smaller pieces out into 2 rectangles for the tops.
Glass is better to cook more evenly and see if the bottom has fully cooked. A spring form pan is OK too.

Fit the dough into the pan and up the sides, and let excess hang over for sealing later.

Begin by layering the quartered hard boiled eggs as the first layer on the bottom, about 1 inch apart.

In between each egg quarter, with your fingers, place a small piece of sausage meat; going around the whole first layer of the pie.

Sprinkle a layer of grated cheese all around.

Next, place a thin layer of mozzarella; one piece high. Next place a thin layer of prosciutto, then a thin layer of provolone, a layer of salami, and a layer of boiled ham.

Pour ½ cup of egg wash over the first layer.

Begin again with your quartered eggs; alternating the quarters in between the quarter of the first layer.

Layer each ingredient as you did on the first layer and so on. Adding egg wash to each layer.

Depending on the depth of the pie pan, the size of your cur ingredients, you may have two or three layers, but don’t fill beyond the rim of the dish.

Cover the last layer with the smaller piece of dough and crimp the together the edges.
Trim the sides with a knife.

Cut several steam holes on top and brush the pastry with milk or egg wash to form a “glaze”
Egg Wash: 5:1 1 Egg to a tablespoon of water, as an example.

Bake for one hour or until the pie crust is golden and top ingredients are bubbly.
A layer of tin foil on your oven rack will guard against unintended spill-over.
If you filled the pie too much with egg, or ingredients, it may boil over.

When fully baked, internal temperature around 2000 F., let stand until cool, then cover with foil or plastic and refrigerate for later.

It can also be served warn, not hot. Remember, this is finger food!

Apr 07, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Something "seasonal":

Pane di Pasqua (Easter Bread)

Makes 2 9 inch round breads

6 large eggs
8 tablespoons (1 stick) butter, softened
1 ¼ cups sugar
2 teaspoons vanilla
¼ cup plus 2 teaspoons vegetable oil
6 cups Unbleached, All-purpose flour
5 teaspoons baking powder

8 colored hard-boiled eggs
1 ¼ cups confectioner’s sugar
2 to 3 tablespoons milk
Colored sprinkles

Preheat the oven to 3500 F.

In a large bowl, beat the eggs, butter, sugar, vanilla and vegetable oil with a rotary beater or a wooden spoon until well blended.

Sift the flour and the baking powder together and add to the egg mixture about a cup at a time, mixing with your hands until a soft, but no longer sticky dough is formed.

Transfer the dough to a well-floured surface and knead until smooth and pliable, about 5 minutes.

Divide the dough into 4 pieces.

Roll each piece into a rope, 22 inches long and 1 inch thick.

Cut a 2 inch piece off each rope and reserve.

Loosely braid 2 of the ropes together and bring the ends together for form a circle.
Pinch the ends together.

Repeat with the remaining 2 ropes.

Place each braid on a greased baking sheet.

Space 4 eggs evenly around the circles, nestling them in the braided dough.

Divide each of the reserved 4 pieces of dough into 4 pieces and roll each piece into a 3 inch long rope.

Using 2 ropes of dough per egg, place a cross over each egg, tucking the ends into the dough.

Bake the braids for 35-40 minutes, or until the bread is nicely browned.

Transfer to wire racks to cool.

In a small bowl, combine the confectioner’s sugar and 2 tablespoons of milk. Mix well.

Add enough additional milk to make a thin icing, stirring until smooth.

Drizzle the icing over the braids and scatter colored sprinkles over them.

Apr 07, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?

It's challah and pasqua de Pane time!

Apr 03, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

It's challah time!

Pasqua de pane!

Apr 03, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Hi Chef pleasure!

Have fun,


Mar 30, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Sourdough Rye with Caraway Seeds (65%)

One loaf...boule @ 680 grams

High Gluten Flour 35% .35 130 all in grams
Whole Rye 65% .65 242
Water 78% .78 290
Yeast 1.25 Instant .0125 1.5
Salt 1.8% .018 7
Caraway Seeds 1.75% .0175 7

TOTAL 1.828 680
Desired Dough Temperature 80F
Sour @ 60% Mix and cover 12-16 hours

Rye 100% 145
Water 85% 123
Culture 15% 22


Final Dough

Flour 130
Whole Rye 97
Water 167
Yeast 1.5
Salt 7
Sour 290
Caraway seeds 7

Total: 702 extra weight comes from culture

Method: mix all but sour on first (Kitchen aid 1) for 1 minute.

Add sour in chunks and mix 1 minute on first
Mix on second (kitchen aid 7-8) 4 minutes
Don't expect the kind of structure you're used to.
Bulk ferment 45 minutes @ 75F
Shape and proof 45 minutes
Bake with steam 15 minutes at 460
Bake and additional 20 minutes at 400.

Make sure the loaf is fully baked.
Do not cut for one 24 hours...the crumb needs time to set!

Let it rest covered with baker's linen or tea towel

I have this on a spread sheet if you like!

Have fun!


Mar 29, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

A few more thoughts on rye.

If we're not doing a 100% rye, then by definition some of that flour won't be rye, rather wheat.

To give the bread some lift, we may turn to all purpose flour, more lift; high gluten (protein), and maybe even the traditional first clear flour.

I have a bit of a theory after all my readings on traditional ryes. The people who used rye to bake; The Jews and the Germans, used rye here in America because the refined and "finest" flour; wheat was reserved for the rich. Funny, the flour with the purest form of protein, but not the most nutritious.

The rest was left to the rest of the population, so rye, especially whole rye, was the most attainable. First clear flour is the same...less refined and therefore more nutritious...but the rich didn't see it that way and left it for the "others". I guess the color was important, or the complicated flavors in rye was too much for the wealthy to handle. It's different now, isn't it?! Analogy, in the days gone by, crabs were considered food for the poor. Try to be poor and by crabs today.

I'll put a formula on here for oh...let's say 50-60% rye along with the method and lets give that a shot.



Mar 29, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home


It think cooling is the secret!

We had "frozen" baguette tonight...yum!


Mar 28, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Hi chefs!

Chef Lorraine is spot on!

You can circumvent this by making sure that the loaf is DEAD cold...two hours.

What I find works after that is partial vacuum with one of those systems that comes with those nifty plactic bags.

You can freeze a whole loaf, or slice and radomly place the slices in a freezer bag to remove one or several at a time. Do not place the slices in order...they will stick together.

As as Chef Maria's the moisture and that has to go.

Remember, if you go with the vacuum have to stop it as soon as the plastic hits the loaf or your batard will turn in to a wrinkly roll!


Mar 28, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

You bet Chef!

Just email me at

I have spredsheets on ryes from deli rye to full ryes.


Mar 28, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

HI Chef:

Volkornbrot...full rye bread.

You have to remember that rye has very little gluten and therefore it is dense.

You need a rye starter for starters...sorry about that. The normal rye culture that I keep is 1:1. So for every 100 grams of rye, I have 100 grams of water...looks like sludge!

And you also have to be gentle with the rye.

Bulk fermentation is lower as there is no real structure to trap the gases formed.

And rye needs a desired dough temperature higher than wheat. This will be somewhere around 85F as opposed to the normal 76 we are used to in most wheat breads.

And, the initial oven temperature is higher for the initial baking and lowered for the remainder. For example, the oven temp would be around 470F for the first fifteen minutes and then lowered to around 380F and baked for a longer time...75 minutes making the total bake time about 90 minutes as opposed to 30 minutes for wheat.

These usually wind up being shaped into logs and placed in Pullman pans with no lid. The pans are lightly oiled and lined with rye or pumpernickel flour.

So there are some additional rules for high content ryes than lower content ryes and wheat.

If you like, I can give you a formula for Volkornbrot.

Email me at and please bring all discussions back to this board.

I have formulae for lesser content ryes also. In those ryes some use high gluten flour to give the bread some "lift" or even first clear flour which is a tradition in rye bread.

Also, many ryes include a soaker of seeds with rye chops, and/or flaxseeds.

So the content of this bread includes rye meal, rye chops, sunflower seeds.

I hope that helped.

Let me know!


Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home




Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?

I have a formula for croissant and a spreadsheet that I have made available here.

If you would like it, you can email me at

However, I promised Chow that all discussion comes back here.

Let me know and it's yours as long as you have Microsoft excel it's automatic.


Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Tips on making croissants?

It's made me laugh!

The pastry flour doesn't have enough gluten!


Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Chef MrsPatmore:

Good bakers live in fear of a bad bake...LOL

And all of you on here are GREAT!

The competition is overwhelming! I'm happy this isn't the coupe de monde...I'd be in the stands watching!

And thank you all for you are A list!

Good bakers share!

Happy Baking,


Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

Hi Chefs:

remember, we learn nothing from our success, but from our failures...if we don't quit.

Great job!


Mar 27, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

OK Chefs...

we got a bit ahead of ourselves with the French apple bread as it called for a stiff levain.

I don't keep a "stiff" levain as I think it unnecessary. I add a small amount of my normal starter to the "stiff" pecentages and it works just fine!


I keep two;

1. a basic for levain @ 125% hydration

2. A rye starter @ 100% hydration.

To make a starter:

To 100 grams of flour add 125 grams of water...mix well and cover it and go away.

That afternoon, add 100 grams of flour and 125 grams of water...go to bed!

Day two: remove about 1/2 the build and throw it away.

To that add 100 grams of flour and 125 grams of water...mix well,cover it and go away.

That afternoon, add 100 grams of flour and 125 grams of water...go to bed.

Do this for a week and by the end, you will notice the magic. The flour and water mixture will bubble...oh my...we made a starter.

It's as easy as that!

For the purpose of good baking, I would do this for two weeks in a row to make a strong starter. Then use it as directed in whatever formula you have.

To store: remove all but about 150 grams of starter and put it in the fridge after a day's feeding.

Put too much away and it will form too much acid.

I've heard some put grape skins and honey and all sorts of stuff...I don't know!

If you really want to boost that process, especially after retrieving two or three, or four week old starter from the fridge, use "first clear flour"!

You can purchase first clear from King Arthur.

We use it in rye breads to give it lift and it has the most of the endo sperm from the first sifting. It's rich in nutrients and the levain build LOVES it!

Clear flour is the by-product of straight flour that remains after patent flour is removed. Clear flour is graded into fancy, first clear, and second clear. Clear flour is darker in color than the other flours previously mentioned, as it is made from the part of the endosperm closest to the bran. Fancy clear flour, milled from soft wheat, is used to make pastry flour. First clear, milled from hard wheat, is often blended by the baker with low-gluten flours to lighten the texture of breads such as rye or whole-wheat yet maintain the deep color desirable in such breads.

OK...the rye starter.

You can purchase rye now in better super markets. Usually is the "stone ground" works and as rye goes...not much gluten.

Do the same as in the white starter build...only it's one to one.

By the looks like sludge...perfect!

Now a word about "old" starters. This is really not necessary. That baker that says, "I have a starter that is 40 years old" him I say...Happy Birthday!

You don't need an ancient starter. If you don't think you are going to bake bread with a started for a long time, then don't keep one.

You just need to plan ahead a bit!

Mar 26, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

By the way Chef Veggie...

If you can't find dried apples, you can make them yourself!

You cut apples into 1/8 inch rings after you core it, place them on a sheet pan in an oven...a slow oven...250F until they are dry and leathery.

By the way, the apple bread calls for a stiff levain. How did you do with that?

Mar 26, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking

Bread Baking at Home

I used Diplomat for my Bienenstich and found it toooooo silky. You bite down and it goes all over.

Trapped in a bun sounds like it would work great.

So for structured things like Bienenstich, I left out the whipped cream and went with my wife's French pastry.

Of course, I was born on the third floor above the family pastry shop and there it was Italian cream. The difference being the flour. They added flour because it had to be strong to hold apart heavy layers of the sponge cake.

They also put it in the cream puffs and éclairs. For this I prefer the French cream without the flour. If you are not careful to cook the flour in the's awful!

I really like diplomat. It works well in so many places.

Great job.

So...what's your address and when are you making the stuffed brioche? LOL


Mar 26, 2014
Adagio in Home Cooking