hafnerd's Profile
Tokyo cafes
I would like a recommendation for a classic-style cafe in the Omote-Sando/ Harajuku/Shibuya area of Tokyo. I'd really like to find one that is a relaxed place, good for people watching. If they serve good pasteries also, that's even better.
New recommendations for Shanghai dining
My one major gripe with Franck's cote de boeuf is that they don't trim the meat well, they served me a lot of fat with my beef. I've only had the dish there once, but I've heard this complaint before. While I could get a better steak for less back in the U.S., it's unlikely I'd find a better steak in Shanghai (though I've never been to Roosevelt Steakhouse). It come's with fries and salad, and is more than enough for two.
I thought the service at Franck was excellent, though the laid back French-style service that the servers (mostly Chinese) imitate might make some people uncomfortable. Still, one can encounter such bad service in China, Franck is a big step above the norm. Atleast they pay attention to you.
New recommendations for Shanghai dining
Tenya (Tian Jia) has a good toro set menu for a good price considering the quality of the tuna.
FU1039 has the same owner as FU 1088, and is also set in an old mansion down the street. FU 1039 serves more traditional Shanghainese dishes with a few experiments with European cuisine. The dishes are cheaper than FU 1088 also, but that just makes it more difficult to fulfill the 200rmb per person requirement without over ordering. FU1039 is a very nice restaurant, but the cuisine is less unique (though still very delicious).
New recommendations for Shanghai dining
I'm not a fan of Spicy Joint. The price is right, but it's such a massive chain, I feel like I'm eating at a SIchuan Applebee's. Even their magazine style menus give off a corporate stench.
Another great noodle joint down the road from The Assmann is Lao DI Fang Mian (老地放面). It's nothing more than a single tiny room with three shared tables, but the Shanghainese style noodles are all excellent, as is the pork steak 猪排. 233 Xiangyang Lu
New recommendations for Shanghai dining
It Assmann, not Asman, and the subject of many a joke (they'll never be able to take do the Assmann billboard off the roof). I live down the block, they serve excellent lamb kebabs on the grill outside and good bakery, but there are much much better Xinjiang restaurants in Shanghai. Try Xinjiang Fengwei Restaurant at Yishan lu near Nandan lu. Sorry Assmann, I hope we can still be friends.
What was wrong with the service at Toriyasu? I find the service at Shanghai's Korean and Japanese restaurants to soar above any Chinese restaurant in the city (not like they provide much competition). I've had some of my better service experiences in China at Toriyasu. They didn't have to do much, but even a little attention puts you above the majority of servers in China.
There are many excellent Shanghainese restaurants in the city. I think the problem is that it's a cuisine that when done poorly is an oily, overly sweet mess, and so many people quickly become turned off by it.
There are the less accesible FUs and Jishis of the city, but my favorite is still the hole-in-the-wall Lan Ting on Song Shan lu.
Best Place to take our Shanghai Hosts for last night thank you dinner?
FU1088 is definitely the best choice for a nice Chinese meal in Shanghai.
Korean in Shanghai
Shanghai has a lot of Korean people living there, so there are a ton of excellent Korean restaurants, almost as good as just about any I've had in Korea.
As mentioned above, Ben Jia is excellent. Even better is Zheng Yi Pin (正一品) on Jinhui Nan Lu, very close to Ben Jia. The restaurant is serviced by a Korean staff.
There is also Ziteng lu, just off of Wuzhong lu, 5 minutes West of BenJia and Zheng yi Pin. The entire street is Korean restaurants, bars, and snack stands. A great place to get cheap Korean food.
Any good handmade chocolate shop in Shanghai ?
Hof on Sinan lu, near Huai Hai lu makes their own chocolate
Where are the best restaurants in Shanghai & Beijing?
Jia Jia Tang Bao serves Xiao long bao, not sheng jian
Mainland China's Top Overall Restaurants
Have you been to Maison Boulud in Beijing? How does Daniel Boulud's attempt to bring New York fine dining to China compare with Jean Georges'? One obvious difference between the New York Daniel menu and the Beijing menu from looking at the website, is that the main Chinese menu is a la carte. It's the same with Jean Georges.
3 Nights in Shanghai---early research..
It depends on where you eat - Jesse Restaurant (Ji Shi) is a local restaurant, and will begin to quiet down by 8, but the quality of the food shouldn't vary; restaurants frequented more by foreigners quiet down a bit later, but Shanghai is definitely not a late-night dining city, I wouldn't plan to dine any later than 8.
I can't think of a single restaurant worth seeking out in Xintiandi. There is Din Tai Fung, but that's in the mall complex at the southern end of Xintiandi, not in a shikumen.
looking for non tourist chinese in Beijing
I think there is a difference between tourist and touristy. One can't help being a tourist, but one avoids being touristy.
looking for non tourist chinese in Beijing
@Kyleoh, Bellagio is a decent Taiwanese restaurant if your looking for something during your lunch break, but I don't think its worth seeking out as a tourist.
@modernleifeng - is Crescent Moon better than the Xinjiang provincial office restraurant, plainly called Xinjiang Fandian?
3 Nights in Shanghai---early research..
I think Shanghai Uncle has some good dishes , the flaming crispy pork is a good example, but I think most of their dishes are lame attempts at being inventive, most of them come off tacky and bland. Plus, it's a chain, I wouldn't recommend a chain restaurant to anyone visiting for only a few days.
Jia Jia Tang Bao (which is pinyinized also) is across the street from Xiao Yang Sheng Jian, or Xiao Yang's Fried Dumplings. Its a must go.
Is it necessary to only eat in Shanghainese restaurants? I would really recommend Xindalu in the Hyatt on the Bund, not too far from your hotel. They serve JiangZhe cuisine (or food originating from the provinces of Jiangsu and Zhejiang), which is a great influence on Shanghai cuisine. As you seem to be gravitating toward higher end restaurants, this is a good fit. A lot of people go their for Beijing duck, but their Jiangzhe dishes are superb. Order the Dongpo rou.
Jia Jia Tang Bao Opens a New Shop
A friend who works in the area tipped me off that a new Jia Jia Tang Bao has opened up on the southeast corner of Xizang lu and Jinling lu. I went to check it out yesterday with said friend:
The space is completely renovated, and completely at odds with the "hole-in-the-wall" feel of the Huanghe lu restaurant. It seems the owners hired an interior designer, as the space is decorated in a very modern style, and the tables, chairs,bowls and utensils have been purposefully matched with the walls in color and style. It is also worth noting that the restaurant could fit at least three times as many customers as the Huanghe lu location as they have two large floors.
The restaurant was empty but for one old man who had dozed off as he was waiting for his xiaolong bao. The staff seemed bored with inactivity. My friend and I ordered two pork filled steamers, two corn and pork (to switch it up) and two bowls of duck blood soup. The Chinese-only menu is no longer on slates, but still hangs, now on a single black board, above the register at the door. I don't think the prices have been raised to match the more-expensive looking space; everything was still cheap.
It took quite a while for our food to come out, but I think this was due to the lack of customers rather than in spite of it - Jia Jia makes their xiao long bao to order.
When the steamers did arrive, with the pork arriving first, I could immediately see by their almost transparent skins that they were perfectly made. The instant rupture of soup upon first bite, the pork flavour - all perfect. I had recently been served some not so great xiao long bao at Jia Jia's Huanghe lu shop, so I was relieved to be served such a great product at the new space. The lack of a rush clearly benefits the xiao long bao making process.
I'll stick with the pork xiaolong bao. The corn didn't add any flavor or texture, better to put the extra kuai towards another steamer. The duck blood soup was flavourless, as usual, but I order it simply out of habit.
It's clear that Jia Jia Tang Bao has plans to enter a larger market. Though a bit of the original's spirit might be lost with expansion, what's important is that the taste remains, so far it still does. I'd still recommed tourists visit the Huanghe lu restaurant for the whole experience (along with a stop at Xiao Yang Shengjian across the street), but if you live in the city and are craving xiao long bao, there's absolutely no line at their new spot...for now.
3 Nights in Shanghai---early research..
Ji Gu Jiang (鸡骨酱) is diced chicken served in a very thick soy-based sauce, the sauce has a consistency like molasses, but a sweet flavor similiar to other hongshao style dishes.
Lan Ting is defintely not in the same style as Fu1088, or Ji Shi, and even more of a "hole in the wall" than Chun, but I think the food is much better than Chun, and I feel even more of a true Shanghai experience.
Here's a review - http://www.smartshanghai.com/blog/1130/Lan_Ting.html
You've heard of 1221 from foreigners because they're the only ones who eat there; the only Chinese people who ever enter the restaurant are the ones who work there. If you are looking to focus on Shanghainese food, 1221 is not the place - the food they serve is closer to American Chinese food than anything local. Maybe that's why so many foreigners eat there (or maybe it's because it's also mentioned in Lonely Planet beside Bao Luo).
Yangshuo Recommendations?
I think part of your problem was that you were using Frommer's for restaurant recommendations. Try a Chinese website like Dianping.com; its not perfect (a Chinese version of Yelp), but you'll do better than the mediocre restaurants listed in a travel guide like Frommer's or Lonely Planet. It helps that you can often look at pictures of the restaurantants on dianping.
3 Nights in Shanghai---early research..
Fu 1088 and Ji Shi are excellent picks; I'd stick with those. Did you get your Bao Luo recomendation from a lonely planet? Its no more than a Chinese version of a greasy spoon, don't go there.
As Fu 1088 and Ji Shi are on the fancier side of SHanghai cooking, I would suggest Lan Ting (around the block from Xin Tian Di, on Song Shan Lu) as a very very local home-style option, but there is no English menu. It shouldn't really matter - everyone orders ji gu jiang.
Chun (Spring) restaurant, Shanghai.
Chun is a one small chamber like room (2 big tables, 2 small), I don't think there is a menu, and I don't think the owner (who takes the orders) speaks English. I think the food is overrated, possibly because it was mentioned in the NYT in an article about Shanghai a few years ago, possibly because its a very small restaurant and the owner treats guests so well. There are better places to experience Shanghainese food though.
Xin Ji Shi has an English menu, but I know that certain dishes must be ordered in advance, and I think you would need to speak Chinese to do that. Much better food than Chun, but also more of a traditional restaurant setting than Chun. The choice depends on whether you are more focused on food or experience. With three nights, why not go to both?
My Rest. Choices for Shanghai + Beijing
I think a lot of people would agree with me that La Zi Yu on Anfu Lu has lost almost all of its former glory. More than three years ago now, the food was great and it received well deserved hype. I don't know when it happened, but they have gone way down hill, so much so that I wouldn't even put it on a list of Shanghai's top Sichuan restaurants.
Shanghai doesn't even have many great ones, most are very big chains. My favorite is Yu Xin, but I find the size of the dining rooms of both of their restaurants to be too overwhelming, how can they be consistent serving so many people? The think the one on Nanjing Lu has three floors.
Where is the location of this unique restaurant? :)
The Chinese characters only said "niu rou fen..." wouldn't have been too much help, there must be a million restaurants that have those characters on the wall.
What should DH bring back from Beijing?
I don't know who DH is (designated hitter?), but I would have him (darling husband?) go to the Sichuan Provincial office, have a great sichuan meal, then go to the shop in the same building and by some spicy yak meat, or guaidou (a strangely flavored spicy bean), or hot pot soup base, spicy dried frog, or some other delicious spicy sichuan snack. I'm not sure its very easy to buy those things in the U.S.. I've never seen anywhere to buy them.
Otherwise a bottle of Beijing Baijiu would be a more local option.
Best Chow in Guangzhou
Unfortunately, I haven't been to Guangzhou (its on a long list of places left to go in China), but in my experience the China Lonely Planet writers are not foodies, and most of their recommendations have been disappointments, merely the safest (ie. most bland) restaurants to offer a large audience.
Its not always perfect, but use dianping.com to get a basic gage of where Guangzhou people are eating. If you can't read Chinese then use google translate.
Mainland China's Top Overall Restaurants
Mainland China does not include Hong Kong. I who has lived and travelled, and continue to live, in China for sometime, share this sentiment with many a friend. Maybe it depends on the service of the country you come from, but atleast in comparison with New York, where I come from, service is always the one glaring issue at even the most high-end restaurants on the mainland.
As I have mentioned on other postings, maybe the Chowhound-China board is mainly the home of tourists, but I don't know how you could spend any period of time here and not find the majority of service experiences to be mediocre at best, rarely (almost never) have I been wowed by a waiters knowledge of a menu or ability to gain confidence in the diner. I can accept mediocre service at restaurants where the food is the only draw, but not at those that are selling themselves as fine dining experiences, whether they speak English or not (I can speak Chinese).
My Rest. Choices for Shanghai + Beijing
I think a lot of Chinese people eat at Ding Tai Feng, but they are probably from Hong Kong or Taiwan. It might just be too expensive. Still, I think ,despite being a chain, it is one of the most consistent restaurants in Shanghai.
There are now 4(?) Ding Tai Feng restaurants in Shanghai, how many Crystal Jade's. They seem to pop up in the same places. I think lately Crystal Jade has suffered from a lack of consistency, I also used to like it, but I've found the quality is no longer as good as I'd find in another dim sum restaurant like Ding Tai Feng.
It's strange that despite having so many people from Hong Kong living in Shanghai, the city really lacks many good dim sum restaurants. Another dim sum chain worth checking out is Royal China in Jiu Guang mall in Nanjing. They have a lot of choices that the previous restaurants I mentioned don't have, like pigeon, so I think more people from Hong Kong come here.
I don't know why consistency is such a problem in restaurants in China. Di shui dong used to be good, thats why its famous in Shanghai, but its time has passed, now I would use the word terrible to describe the oily slop they serve. Same with GuYi, used to be good, but no longer (still better than Di Shui Dong).
Mainland China's Top Overall Restaurants
Why not Made in China?
Speaking of hotel restaurants, Xindalu (also in Shanghai) is one of the best restaurants I've been to in China. In the Hyatt on the Bund, they are famous for their roast duck, but the real reason to go is the inventive take on Zhejiang and Jiangsu cuisine, the food is superb, making use of good ingredients and good fish ( its very, very hard to get served good freshwater fish in Chinese restaurants in China). The service is also the best I've had in China, though the starkness of the dining room is a bit overwhelming (still, a better example of post-modern design than Shintori and People's 7, and much better food).
Mainland China's Top Overall Restaurants
Certainly, a tent in the middle of nowhere could be a top restaurant if it had superb food, excellent service, and by the middle of nowhere you meant a beautiful natural setting. A hole-in-the wall might have excellent food, and good service, but by its label would not have great overall ambience, even if it was homely.
Sorry, I guess by best overall I was refering to a fine dining experience, which there is not a lot of in China (including in SIchuan, where I have been).
China is notorious for terrible restaurant service even in fine dining establishments (maybe because noone tips), so I think when thinking over the whole picture that encompasses a fine dining experience, there are not so many restaurants that would make this a difficult task.
In dining guides-Michelin, Zagats - all different types of cuisines are rated together in a single city, so it shouldn't matter whether it be a Sichuan or a Shanghainese restaurant; if both have delicious food, but the Shanghainese had better service and ambience, than the Shanghainese restaurant would be the better OVERALL restaurant. In Chengdu, a certain restaurant might rate high for food, but what about the overall experience, most of the restaurants that served superb food (some of the best I have ever had) had an ugly banquest or cafeteria style dining hall, and lazy, inattentive service staff.
Of course I meant land mass, that would have a greater affect on finding the best restaurants than population.
For example: I would put FU1088 on a list of China's top overall restaurants - they might serve the best example of Shanghainese cuisine in the Shanghai, the setting is in a beautiful converted mansion, and the service is more attentive than the majority of restaurants I've been to in China (service is almost always the biggest weakness here).
My Rest. Choices for Shanghai + Beijing
I guess it should be expected for an English language discussion board about Chinese food, but most of the Shanghai restaurants recommended here cater to the expats working here, are over priced, and not very good.
There aren't many unique Sichuan restaurants in Shanghai, most of the decent Sichuan restaurants are these enormous dining hall affairs that I find it a bit overwhelming. Sichuan Citizen is a bit smaller than the other ones, but the food is really bland, I think they tone down the spice for the foreigners the restaurant caters too. Even though it is always very crowded Spicy Joint on the same block is much better (and cheaper).
Di Shui Dong's has gone way down in quality in the past few years, don't go. GuYi is slightly better though not great either; I try to avoid chain restaurants completely, I'd prefer a more unique dining experience. My Hunan recommendation is for Guo Yuan, though it is a bit out of the way. Check out this review: http://www.smartshanghai.com/blog/1161/Guo_Yuan.html
Or go to Hunan Xiangcun Fengwei Guan, for a more conveniet location (168 Wulumuqi Lu)
Crystal Jade is equally bland. Even though it is also a chain, check out Ding Tai Feng instead. They might just serve the best xiaolongbao in the city (and certainly the most expensive).
People's 7, Ye Shanghai, Lost Heaven...do Chinese people even eat at those restaurants? Chinese attendance is not a requirement for good Chinese food, sure, but these 3 restaurants seem more focused on presentation and ambiance than food that tastes good (People's 7 especially), and so attract more tourists for the show than city residents for the food.
Xin Ji Shi is an actually good Shanghainese restaurant, but you should really go to the one on Tianping Lu.
Try Lan Ting, or Chun for a more local Shanghai experience.
Best coffee in New York City?
Stumptown Coffee from Portland recently opened in the Ace Hotel at 29th and Broadway, bringing North-west quality coffee to New York.
Mainland China's Top Overall Restaurants
If a list were created for the top overall (food,service, ambiance) Chinese restaurants (restaurants serving any cuisine with origins in China) in all of mainland China, what restaurants would come out on top?
Despite being the fourth largest nation on the planet, the task isn't as difficult as it might at first seem as most of the top overall restaurants are found in only a few cities (Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, maybe Hangzhou, Shenzhen).
