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Insights, tips, and restaurant reports from CHOW editors and Chowhound.

Overheard on the San Francisco Boards

"While visiting the area I grew up in a few months ago, I ate lots of lobster, and I would say this one rivaled any of the New England bugs I ate during the peak of the season this year."

"These little cigar-shaped rolls about twice the size of a ladyfinger and just as delicate ... right out of the oven are flaky, yeasty goodness sprinkled with sugar and oozing salty butter in the center."

"I'm already trying to figure out when I can drive across the bridge for another Ike's gut-bomb."
-Agent 510

Serious Sandwiches at 4505 Meats

After having a cheeseburger at 4505 Meats a few weeks back, brian j was hooked—he's been eating his way through the rest of Ryan Farr's offerings ever since.

The burger is superb: incredibly flavorful and juicy to a fault (once you pick it up, you're best off not putting it back down). The meat is aged for 21 days and ground in-house. The single burger ($7) is a bit small, brian j says, but the double cheeseburger ($9) has a much better meat-to-bun ratio.

At one Thursday farmers' market at the Ferry Plaza (where the 4505 Meats stand is found), a sandwich of beef shank and smoked lengua crépinette with fried egg, Brussels sprouts, and aioli was "one of the best sandwiches I've eaten in my entire life," brian j says. "Seriously amazing." On another visit he tried the pig's trotter banh mi: Braised trotters are deboned and then reconstructed, rolled up, breaded, and fried to order. It then goes into a baguette with pickled carrots and daikon, cilantro, and chiles.

4505 Meats [Embarcadero]
1 Ferry Plaza, San Francisco
No phone available

Board Link: 4505 Meats: EPIC lunches at the Ferry Plaza Thursday Farmers Market

Thankful for Burgundy

Thankful for Burgundy

It's a special treat to taste these Thanksgiving-friendly wines in their true habitat. READ MORE

Overheard on the Home Cooking Boards

"First rule: write down your entire planned menu and make a schedule. Figure out what you can do before Thanksgiving Day itself."

"You can also make avocado fries. They are a beautiful thing."
-small h

"I eat lobster as often as I can, but Julia Child's Lobster Souffle beats any other preparation I've ever had."

Thanksgiving Pie Extravaganza

Classic pumpkin pie is delicious, but there are plenty of inventive twists you can give this quintessential Thanksgiving dessert. Or start a new tradition with chocolate or fruit pies.

HillJ substitutes coconut milk for evaporated in the classic pumpkin pie recipe, or uses eggnog in place of eggs and milk. shaogo uses a tablespoon each of cinnamon and Chinese five-spice powder in place of the spices called for, and adds 1/4 cup molasses. cinnamon girl puts a smear of mincemeat on the pastry before pouring in the pumpkin filling for a double dose of holiday flavor.

middydd's favorite is pumpkin pie with ginger streusel. "The contrast between creamy filling and crunchy topping is really nice," she says. heypielady likes this pumpkin chocolate tart, with a chocolate crumb crust, pumpkin filling, and chocolate drizzle; the key is to use a good chocolate, says heypielady, who favors Valrhona.

another_adam is a fan of Paula Deen's pumpkin pie recipe, which includes cream cheese and butter and is very rich. "It had something of a cheesecake taste and a nice smooth texture," he says, "but not a true cheesecake consistency." It's best at room temperature rather than cold. chowser recommends a double-layer pumpkin cheesecake.

If pumpkin doesn't do it for you, try a fruit pie. heypielady calls the gingersnap topping on this pear-cranberry pie "amazing," and loves the addition of lemon zest to the crust. cheesecake17 calls Key lime tart and lemon meringue pie "light and refreshing after a heavy meal." Divamac goes the opposite direction, serving "stunningly good" double-chocolate tart with dulce de leche.

Oh, and by the way, if you have a pizza stone, by all means bake your pies on it. Doing so "does a stellar job of keeping the bottom crust from getting soggy when the pie contents are likely to exude quite a bit of liquid," says JoanN, who uses a Pyrex pie plate.

Board Links: Super-duper pumpkin pie?
Non-traditional pies that are worth it... Thanksgiving
Baking pie on pizza stone? Yay or nay?

Ladle On the Gravy

For many people, turkey gravy is the highlight of the Thanksgiving meal. Here's how to make it so flavorful you'll want to eat it with a spoon.

Good turkey stock is key to good gravy, say hounds. Many make stock from browned or roasted turkey parts (wings, backs, or necks, which many meat departments carry around Thanksgiving); some also save the skimmed fat for cooking the roux that starts the gravy. "Making a rich stock ahead of time lets you concentrate on building layers of flavor without the pressure" of Thanksgiving Day, notes Melanie Wong.

Add another layer of flavor by using white wine, dry sherry, or Cognac to deglaze the roasting pan. "A goodly slug of dry sherry makes a world of difference to the finished product," says jmnewel, and Diane in Bexley thinks Cognac "makes everything taste good!" Making the gravy in the roasting pan allows you to get all the fond into the sauce, too.

TorontoJo roasts a dozen shallots in the pan with the turkey, then blends them and mixes them into the gravy. "It gives a wonderful deep flavor," she says. "My 'secret' ingredient is soy sauce," she adds. "After I make the gravy and taste it, if it's a bit bland, I find a good splash of soy gives it the depth and umami that is missing."

maria lorraine goes in another direction altogether: She roasts the bird on a bed of carrots and apple halves, then separates the fat from the pan juices and blends the carrots and apples with the pan juices. "No stock. No flour and water," she says. "Best gravy I ever had. And I'm a gravy fan."

mcsheridan recommends this make-ahead gravy, which yields many servings and can be frozen for up to a month.

Board Links: Gravy good enough to drink: what makes your mostly classic turkey gravy special?

Dressed-Up Cranberry Sauce

Cranberry sauce doesn't have to be plain. Adding fruits, nuts, and even booze makes it extra-special.

Some hounds start with the basic recipes on the back of the cranberry bag and add their own touches. Nyleve uses the whole-berry sauce recipe, but substitutes Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot for the water called for and adds orange zest. "Fantastic and easy," she raves. Val concurs, and adds that she makes hers with tangerine zest and a cinnamon stick. bushwickgirl makes the cranberry-orange relish on the Ocean Spray bag and adds chopped walnuts or pecans and a slug of brandy or Grand Marnier.

Full tummy recommends this spiced cranberry sauce to which she adds a couple of tablespoons of marmalade or preserves. valerie's favorite is triple-cranberry sauce, made with fresh and dried cranberries and cranberry juice cocktail.

Board Link: Cranberry Sauce

Overheard on the General Topics Boards

"People usually recommend either young, fruity red wines—such as Beaujolais or Merlots—or else spicy whites—Gewürztraminer, for instance—for Thanksgiving dinner, because the mix of foods and seasonings is rather challenging."

"I have grown both Hickory King (a traditional white) and Yellow Dent (a traditional yellow, obviously) and they are nothing alike. I only eat a little bit fresh, as I grind the bulk in a little stone mill for cornmeal and grits. The yellow corn tastes about as you'd expect, but the white has a much more pronounced, fresher, and more corn-like taste if you catch my meaning. Things made from the Hickory King meal taste like fresh corn out in the field."

"When I didn't have a clue how to make a Thanksgiving dinner back in the late 60s I just thought the Simon & Garfunkel song must have come from somewhere so I built the stuffing around parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme."

Wine for Thanksgiving

"In my opinion, Thanksgiving dinners are perfect for Chardonnay, German Riesling, and Pinot Noir," says njfoodies. TonyO votes for Zinfandel. "I like Zin because you can drink it alone or with savory dishes like sausage stuffing," he says. "There are many Zins under $20 that are really excellent including Neyers and the Seghesio Sonoma Zin."

Pairing a wine with Thanksgiving desserts can be a challenge, says carswell, but a late-harvest Muscat or a tawny port is a good compromise to pair with apple pie, pumpkin pie, and even, perhaps, chocolate mousse.

Politeness likes white wines from the extreme northwest corner of Spain, especially Galicia. "One criterion for selecting a wine from that region—one that we have advocated in the past and still advocate—is to count the number of X's on the label (looking especially at the spelling of the town of origin) and purchase the wine with the most X's," says Politeness. "You rarely will go wrong ... however arbitrary it may sound." On the other hand, Politeness likes wines made under the Naia label, so instead of counting specific letters, you could just go with that.

Board Link: Tgiving wine selection help please!

Keep the Holidays Under Budget

How are you economizing this holiday season? Sharing the financial burden of a big holiday meal with fellow cooks is the approach HillJ takes. Food shopping with friends who will "share the cost and bounty of, say, a beef tenderloin, a large produce buy, or bulk spices" makes for better holiday value for everyone. "It hurts a lot less financially to have partners in food-crime," says HillJ.

"I make my own stock and that saves a bundle," says miki. "For veggie broth, I just save the ends and pieces, and for chicken, I save the bones from my weekend suppers. Also, if you troll the meat aisle in the grocery stores, you can find great bones for broth, extremely cheap."

Finally, some Chowhounds are not afraid to buck tradition in order to serve a high-quality but inexpensive meal. "We buy what is on sale and it is not always turkey!" says bermudagourmetgoddess. "Last year's dinner was a pork roast with pan gravy, Brussels sprouts sautéed with bacon and garlic, rosemary roasted potatoes, and when they come out of the oven hit them with some Parmesan cheese. For dessert we had individual pecan pies ... it pleased the family and it was not over the top and we did not spend a bundle."

Board Link: How are you economizing this holiday season? Please share your tips.