On the First Match.com Date, Who Pays?

Published on Tuesday, August 16, 2011, by Helena Echlin / Edit Post

Dear Helena,
I go on a lot of first dates on Match.com, and it's getting really expensive. If I see a woman more than once, she usually offers to pay on the second date, but if there's no second date, it doesn't seem fair that I should pay for the first date. It's not as if I asked her out—it was a mutually agreed upon thing that happened through email. Must I, as the guy, always be the one who pays for the first date? Why can't we split the tab?
—Buy Your Own Drink

Dear Buy Your Own Drink,
Like it or not, most women expect that the man will pay for the first date, be it drinks, dinner, or both. Failing to treat is usually a deal-breaker—far worse than having garlic breath or neurotic dietary restrictions. All the hetero women I talked to said as much, regardless of how much money they make or how strong their belief in sexual equality. Feel free to stand up for men's rights by splitting the tab. But know that you then risk letting somebody you might otherwise have had a great relationship with slip through your fingers.

The woman should offer to pay her share on a first date, but this is merely a gesture. Jane Coloccia, who works in marketing and public relations, went on about 200 Internet dates over a period of eight years. The man nearly always paid, she says. Only the stingiest accepted her offer to split the check. "One time I went out to a bar with a guy and I had an iced tea. He had a couple of beers and a bunch of apps, and at the end he said, 'Your half is …'" Needless to say, there was no second date. (Using a coupon on a first date isn't kosher either.)

The expectation that he pay can be pretty hard on the man's wallet, especially now that online dating makes dozens of first dates possible. Mark*, an experienced online dater in San Francisco, says: "If I'm going on a couple of dates a week, that adds up. Even if we just go for drinks, that's $20 or $25 per date." He's pretty frustrated with the situation. "The idea that the man should always pay the first time is kind of like [men buying] engagement rings. If the genders were reversed, the custom would have ended a long time ago."

Without extensive research, it's impossible to generalize about gay and lesbian dating mores. My survey of lesbian friends suggested that there is no clear etiquette on who pays for the first date in the lesbian world, though respondents wished there were. But a gay source stated that men should split the bill on a first date. This is ideal. Though in general I don't recommend check-splitting, it makes sense on first dates, where being treated can lead to an uneasy sense of obligation. Plus, when you treat a friend, you know he'll treat you in turn next time. On first dates, you never know if you're going to see the other person again.

But what if you are certain that you don't want a second date? It's bad enough that you wasted two hours listening to some stranger tell you stories about her cat, why should you shell out for artisanal cocktails too? Samantha Daniels, founder of Samantha's Table, a professional matchmaking service, says that selective treating could backfire though. "Pick and choose which women you pay for and you'll end up with a bad reputation. Maybe you don't want to pay for Amanda, but then three weeks later you meet her best friend who you might really like, but Amanda might tell her: 'You don't want to date that guy, he's cheap.'"

*He did not wish his real name to be used.

You can browse all of Helena's Table Manners columns by topic here. Follow CHOW on Twitter, and become a fan on Facebook.

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POST A COMMENT |54 Comments

COMMENT

  • a little OT- What if a guy/man asked to go dutch (which seems insulting to many), but asks the woman her opinion on what dishes looked interesting, then ordered from THAT short list for himself (so everything could be shared and the lady, essentially would have a little of everything she wanted. Then holds the door open for her, walks her to her car and is in general, a kind and thoughtful man......+READ

    a little OT- What if a guy/man asked to go dutch (which seems insulting to many), but asks the woman her opinion on what dishes looked interesting, then ordered from THAT short list for himself (so everything could be shared and the lady, essentially would have a little of everything she wanted. Then holds the door open for her, walks her to her car and is in general, a kind and thoughtful man... is the going dutch part the only thing a girl remembers, are all of the generous details left forgotten? Personally, I would concentrate on behavior rather than the wallet.-COLLAPSE

  • It's my opinion the the person who initiates the first date (i.e. the one who suggests getting together) is the one who should expect to pay, regardless of gender. In my case, if I do the asking out, I plan to pay. If I am asked out, I expect to be treated. And in the latter case, if I am not treated, I interpret this as a sign the date has not gone well.

    Essentially, if you have initiated the...+READ

    It's my opinion the the person who initiates the first date (i.e. the one who suggests getting together) is the one who should expect to pay, regardless of gender. In my case, if I do the asking out, I plan to pay. If I am asked out, I expect to be treated. And in the latter case, if I am not treated, I interpret this as a sign the date has not gone well.

    Essentially, if you have initiated the date (done the inviting), you are the "host" and should pay for your guest, regardless of whether you are male, female, straight or gay. Gender is not the issue here - it's a matter of etiquette. Mind you, first dates need not be expensive. On a pretty day, just a nice walk in a park can be a great way to get to know someone, and it doesn't cost a thing.

    If you've both had a good time and want to see each other again, then I think the one who was invited the first time should be the one to do the inviting the second time (and accordingly, plan to pick up the tab). It keeps things even and balanced.-COLLAPSE

  • Stop being a cheapskate and pay. She will think more of you and you will eventually realize that there is something called class. If she offers, you may consider it but I would still pay or if she insists then let her after some grumbling. Makes you look good.

  • If we're going to go on about this.. really... women pay a lot too. Usually for personal products such as make up, that men don't buy. If you want a really good idea why we want you to pay for dinner, just got to Walgreens and walk the makeup and hair isles. I'll offer to split the check sure, but if you do not respect the fact that I have put more time and effort into being there then most men...+READ

    If we're going to go on about this.. really... women pay a lot too. Usually for personal products such as make up, that men don't buy. If you want a really good idea why we want you to pay for dinner, just got to Walgreens and walk the makeup and hair isles. I'll offer to split the check sure, but if you do not respect the fact that I have put more time and effort into being there then most men would go to, I don't think it'll work out.-COLLAPSE

  • I know tons of women who told me that they haven't paid for a drink in years. OK it's not a date but still men have expenses like that, that women don't have. The article also states that the man goes on many first dates. Ladies, next time you go out with your friends for dinner, look at how much your bill is with tax and tip and multiply that by 4. That's how much a man would have to spend each...+READ

    I know tons of women who told me that they haven't paid for a drink in years. OK it's not a date but still men have expenses like that, that women don't have. The article also states that the man goes on many first dates. Ladies, next time you go out with your friends for dinner, look at how much your bill is with tax and tip and multiply that by 4. That's how much a man would have to spend each week if he went on just 2 first dates a week and paid the who bill.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm kind of puzzled by this, as for years I've heard that men felt emasculated by the woman offering money, or to pay outright. Men, make up your minds. Stop whining about paying and then using a woman's offer to pay as an excuse to dump her.

    I went on a date over a year ago with a guy where we literally just had hummus and tea. I think the total bill was $10. I really hadn't cared for his...+READ

    I'm kind of puzzled by this, as for years I've heard that men felt emasculated by the woman offering money, or to pay outright. Men, make up your minds. Stop whining about paying and then using a woman's offer to pay as an excuse to dump her.

    I went on a date over a year ago with a guy where we literally just had hummus and tea. I think the total bill was $10. I really hadn't cared for his company at all, and then when he got the bill and said, "Well, should we take care of this?" I really thought he was a jerk. I get the feeling he uses that line quite a bit.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm female, and would always want things to come out even overall in a relationship. However, to me, if I'm on a first date and the other person offers to pay, that is code for "we'll see each other more times" (and therefore you can pay the next time!) If they don't pay, to me, that is code for "we should split it now because there will be no second date for you to get that tab." If someone...+READ

    I'm female, and would always want things to come out even overall in a relationship. However, to me, if I'm on a first date and the other person offers to pay, that is code for "we'll see each other more times" (and therefore you can pay the next time!) If they don't pay, to me, that is code for "we should split it now because there will be no second date for you to get that tab." If someone didn't pay and then asked me out again, I'm not saying I wouldn't go, but I'd be really surprised they'd called.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm suspicious about the range of social class, age, and beliefs in sexual equality of Helena's interviewees. Keep in mind you're on match.com which attracts a wealthier or more serious crowd than sites like okcupid or plentyoffish. If you're concerned about money, (1) go on a free site and save the $36/month from your match membership, (2) limit your first dates to coffee or bars without...+READ

    I'm suspicious about the range of social class, age, and beliefs in sexual equality of Helena's interviewees. Keep in mind you're on match.com which attracts a wealthier or more serious crowd than sites like okcupid or plentyoffish. If you're concerned about money, (1) go on a free site and save the $36/month from your match membership, (2) limit your first dates to coffee or bars without food/expensive cocktails, (3) arrive early and get your own drink so she'll have to go to the bar and get her own.-COLLAPSE

  • If you get to the end of the date, and she offers to pay for her part (or all, or half) of the meal, that sends a signal right there. If not, its your first opportunity to show her your "generous" nature and pick up the tab. If you do not have a generous nature, there might not BE a second date, so you've saved yourself the investment in that particular person. Just a few thoughts from the other...+READ

    If you get to the end of the date, and she offers to pay for her part (or all, or half) of the meal, that sends a signal right there. If not, its your first opportunity to show her your "generous" nature and pick up the tab. If you do not have a generous nature, there might not BE a second date, so you've saved yourself the investment in that particular person. Just a few thoughts from the other side of the table (and a veteran of several first dates).-COLLAPSE

  • If a woman is turned off by you wanting to go dutch on the first date because you don't know if she's worth it or not -- She isn't worth it. Read that three times fast.

  • Maybe what we have here is "a failure to communicate" (from my favorite Paul Newman movie) but in these egalitarian times of electronic relationships, nomenclature might be in for a revision. How about a split check "first meet-up" preceding "date." The latter is laden with tacit expectations and a "meet-up" during daylight hours - lunch, coffee and a walk or, more elegant, a Sunday afternoon...+READ

    Maybe what we have here is "a failure to communicate" (from my favorite Paul Newman movie) but in these egalitarian times of electronic relationships, nomenclature might be in for a revision. How about a split check "first meet-up" preceding "date." The latter is laden with tacit expectations and a "meet-up" during daylight hours - lunch, coffee and a walk or, more elegant, a Sunday afternoon formal tea, would be the best way to avoid the discomforts of expensive meal, inebriation and 'what happens next.' If things click, THEN it is on the guy to make the move and ask her out on the first "date." Food for thought.-COLLAPSE

  • I would think that the "first date" should not be a date at all, but a meeting at a coffee shop, an ice cream parlor, a cafe or even a sports bar. The idea is to talk, to decide if it's worth wasting the time and money on a full-fledged date. As far as using coupons? HELL YES! I happen to find frugality an admirable quality, and that would make me MUCH more interested in a man than if he were...+READ

    I would think that the "first date" should not be a date at all, but a meeting at a coffee shop, an ice cream parlor, a cafe or even a sports bar. The idea is to talk, to decide if it's worth wasting the time and money on a full-fledged date. As far as using coupons? HELL YES! I happen to find frugality an admirable quality, and that would make me MUCH more interested in a man than if he were throwing money around with no care. So men if you ask me out, you offer to pay, but feel free to use that coupon! And I, being a well raised woman, will insist that we split the check, coupon or no!-COLLAPSE

  • Although in general I feel that men should pay for first dates (I admit that I'm old-fashioned!), I agree that with online dating, it's OK to split. As a female, I feel bad if a mutually-agreed upon date is paid for by the guy. Just don't go somewhere too expensive!!

  • First off, he/she who asks, pays. That's what etiquette dictates. I defer to Miss Manners on this one.

    That being said, this article and these comments are so embarrassing for me as a woman. How in the hell does having a penis mean you automatically must pay? As far as I know, it does not dispense money. There is nothing a man can do that a woman can't do (the only advantage men have is they...+READ

    First off, he/she who asks, pays. That's what etiquette dictates. I defer to Miss Manners on this one.

    That being said, this article and these comments are so embarrassing for me as a woman. How in the hell does having a penis mean you automatically must pay? As far as I know, it does not dispense money. There is nothing a man can do that a woman can't do (the only advantage men have is they are on average physically stronger), therefore there is no reason why men and women should not be treated completely equally. You realize that the reason men paid initially was because women were not allowed to have jobs, go to college, own property, etc., do you want that back? Hey why not as long as you get your free Mojito, right?

    Yes, if the guy makes significantly more money, fine. If he insists on treating, fine. But to expect men to arbitrarily pay for no reason other than you thinks that's how it should be. That's BS. Just admit that you want all the equality in the world unless it financially suits you. And if you are on a date with a guy, you are single, so obviously you must be able to pay since you are supporting yourself.

    To the women who would not accept a second date with a man who wouldn't pay, why the hell would you expect the man to call you for a second date when you yourself committed the faux paus that you dislike. That's like saying no second date if he picks his teeth but it's okay for you to pick your teeth because he's a man and because I said so and uh, yeah, just do as I say not as I do and insert arbitary illogical reason here.

    Can any of the women who expect men to pay give me one reason as to why the men should pay? The nails, hair thing is a total red herring. I spend very little money on personal maintenance but still get my fair share of male attention. Most maintenance/styling women do is superfluous and to avoid the judgment of other women. Is a man really going to dump you because you didn't get a manicure before the date or is he not going to care as long as you're properly groomed and dressed appropriately?

    You're just contributing to the BS gender stereotypes out there that make it harder for everyone. Next time someone asks me and my girlfriend "well you can't both have long hair and wear dresses because someone needs to be the man," I'll think of you ladies. Thanks!-COLLAPSE

  • Go for coffee only. why would you choose something more than coffee for a first meet anyway?
    If you [the guy] offer to take me to dinner, you pay baby. Coffee, ice tea, something easy, cheap and you'll both be able to tell if you like the other person.

  • I'd never offer to pay my share for a first date without having the cash to back it up. I'd feel badly if somebody bought me even a coffee, and I thought he wasn't worth seeing again, for whatever reason, to still expect him to pay my part of the tab. Unless he was truly antagonistic, rude or arrogant, not sure what I'd do then. Probably pay and run like hell, so he wouldn't think I "owed" him.

  • The best relationships I have had have been with men who make enough money to take you out. It's a sense of pride for a man to take a woman out to dinner or some other nice evening out. Certainly, not on the first date, which could be drinks or coffee, but on subsequent dates. I agree with the person who posted previously that men who can afford to take you out are more giving in a lot of way....+READ

    The best relationships I have had have been with men who make enough money to take you out. It's a sense of pride for a man to take a woman out to dinner or some other nice evening out. Certainly, not on the first date, which could be drinks or coffee, but on subsequent dates. I agree with the person who posted previously that men who can afford to take you out are more giving in a lot of way. The men who were the nicest to get along with have always been the ones who were able to and paid the bill.-COLLAPSE

  • Buy your own drink, it rarely happens that it's mutual. One person has to broach the subject and make the move. The one who does that pays for the date. If a man can't afford to take a woman out, then he has a few choices: don't take her out (which is not fun), make more money or take her out for coffee or things that don't cost anything until you know her well enough to invite her to your house...+READ

    Buy your own drink, it rarely happens that it's mutual. One person has to broach the subject and make the move. The one who does that pays for the date. If a man can't afford to take a woman out, then he has a few choices: don't take her out (which is not fun), make more money or take her out for coffee or things that don't cost anything until you know her well enough to invite her to your house and cook her a wonderful dinner.

    If a man asks me to split the bill, he'll never see me again. I don't ask men out and if a man asks me out, then the understanding is that he pays. But then again, I never go out with men who can't afford to take me out.

    Does this seem harsh? It might if you have a tight budget -- the woman will have to decide if she likes you enough to look past that. This might also seem harsh if you're a stingy man because women don't like men who are cheap.

    If a man asks a woman out, he pays.-COLLAPSE

  • Let's get one thing clear: there's a difference between "treating" and "being obligated to pay." If a woman likes a man to pay b/c it's a nice treat, then that's ALL that is. A treat. Completely different if she EXPECTS him to pay, making it an obligation. Everyone who argues that the man must pay on the first date solely because of his gender is not facing the simple truth that that's just plain...+READ

    Let's get one thing clear: there's a difference between "treating" and "being obligated to pay." If a woman likes a man to pay b/c it's a nice treat, then that's ALL that is. A treat. Completely different if she EXPECTS him to pay, making it an obligation. Everyone who argues that the man must pay on the first date solely because of his gender is not facing the simple truth that that's just plain sexist. If I pay for a woman, I choose to do so as a treat; if she expects me to pay, then it's no longer my treat.

    And if she's right to expect me to pay, then what am I right to expect of her? (No, I'm not talking about THAT.) That she should not be working outside the home? That she should not get paid the same wage as a man for the same job? Because after all, that's the flip side and the basis for all of these men-paying traditions.

    Call it chivalry, masculine protectiveness, or whatever you want, but those are just nice ways of saying men and women are not equal (which equals sexism).

    Can't have it both ways (and that's for both men and women). If you argue that a man should always pay, ask yourself honestly if you can justify that reasoning logically. Rationally. Not just the "oh, well, that's just how I feel." And in all aspects, like in the aforementioned workplace or equal rights or Title IX; not just where you find yourself on the side of benefit. Be honest. Really.

    Notice that I'm talking about paying based SOLELY on gender. If it's a matter of who makes more $, that's a different matter. And one that I absolutely can justify logically.

    seems appalled that a guy actually accepted her offer to pay -- in other words, that he took her at her word. She says she only "offered to split as a courtesy." Not because she actually meant what she said.

    "Every time he asked me out it was like he was spending my money- and I couldn't afford it even if I was just feeding myself! "

    Huh? He was spending HER money...? By splitting the bill? I might be missing something here, but she never paid for him. She's furious because she had to SPLIT the bill and pay for her own part. Which she couldn't afford. Yet she continued going out with him.

    And when she went out with another guy who made less $ than she, she still expected that guy to pay. And called it sweet. Perhaps she could've just paid for him and then they'd both have eaten a full meal.

    To : So women who want to date a bunch guys should pay for it also, right?

    I'm not even gonna bother addressing the argument about women having to spend more on making themselves to look nice.

    Where does Helena come from? The 50's? Again, apply all of your gender rules consistently and see what holds water. Honestly. Really.

    Finally, to : Right on. Right - on. (pat on the back).

    Pick a world to live in, people. Preferably the modern one.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm with truffles2 -- if it's too expensive to go on so many first dates, don't go on so many first dates! Be a little more discriminating in the first place! If he's really having first dates with two different women a week, week after week, maybe he should focus on why there aren't second dates, although I personally think the situation speaks for itself.

  • As a veteran of many, many first dates during my footloose 20s, I can say that the guys who took me up on my offer to split the bill on the first date, whatever it was, turned out to be cheaper and less giving in many other ways down the line than those who insisted it be their treat.

  • Where's the obvious solution to this dilemma in this article?!

    *sheesh*

    Guys -- make the first "date" more of a get-to-know-you over coffee or a short hike somewhere nice.

    You'll both know whether you want to go on a real date after that.

  • "One time I went out to a bar with a guy and I had an iced tea. He had a couple of beers and a bunch of apps, and at the end he said, 'Your half is …'"

    Appropriate response --

    "Uh, no it isn't. My share is [insert cost of iced tea here]."

  • i meant .. women should not offer to pay if they cant afford it.. no one should.

  • men usually make more money then women firstly. secondly a womans worth is higher then a man especially with "usage" hate to put it bluntly but its true. the men should pay anytime they have money unless the woman offers and wpmen should offer to pay if they really cant or dont want to.

  • I agree there are plenty of things to do that don't cost a ton of money. Go see a free concert, or visit a museum if that is a common interest. I cannot imagine having to sit through a whole dinner with someone that I think is repulsive or a complete idiot the whole while figuring out how to make my escape. Coffee suits me fine.

  • the guy sounds like a cheapskate to me. If you cant afford women then get a better job! women dont like cheap guys. maybe he should be more selective who he chooses to take out then.lol

  • Just went on a lunch date- the man paid...He asked if he could take me to bed ( an hour later)...I was totally offended by this. What was HE paying for in his mind?
    Needless to say- the dating game will forever have it's issues. These are only a few.

  • It is the burden of man to pay. You want to play...you gonna pay.

  • Um... where is Mark taking people that he only spends $20-$25 on drinks per date? I think he should consider himself lucky!

  • Hm. Am I the only one who sees the irony in "I want to date a whole bunch of women, but I dont' want to pay for it" sentiment? Geez, no wonder there are so many 1st dates and so few 2nd. Today, it seems like anything is fair game, but at least agree up front so there are no unpleasant surprises for anyone.

  • With free time so precious why would you commit an entire evening to someone you've never met? That's nuts, go to lunch, happy hour or meet for a coffee. If it clicks then go have dinner

  • I definitely expect the guy to pay, but here's why: I went out with a creep who made 3x more than me and on the 1st lunch I offered to split as a courtesy & he took it every time! Every time he asked me out it was like he was spending my money- and I couldn't afford it even if I was just feeding myself! When I finally asked why, the jerk said he shouldn't have to pay every time- so he NEVER paid...+READ

    I definitely expect the guy to pay, but here's why: I went out with a creep who made 3x more than me and on the 1st lunch I offered to split as a courtesy & he took it every time! Every time he asked me out it was like he was spending my money- and I couldn't afford it even if I was just feeding myself! When I finally asked why, the jerk said he shouldn't have to pay every time- so he NEVER paid for me. LOSER!
    The next kid I dated wasn't even working- we met at a concert and went for fast food. He took out his cash, set aside his bus fare and asked what I wanted to eat. I just shared his drink & fries but that was the sweetest thing and he was a real gentleman.-COLLAPSE

  • We may live in a culture that doesn't remember what chivalry is but that does not mean that chivalry is dead. If you cannot afford a first date then go for a walk. If the woman is into you the venue should not make a difference. The few times my date suggested we split the check on the first date, there never was a second. Why? If that's how I'm going to be treated on the first date, what about...+READ

    We may live in a culture that doesn't remember what chivalry is but that does not mean that chivalry is dead. If you cannot afford a first date then go for a walk. If the woman is into you the venue should not make a difference. The few times my date suggested we split the check on the first date, there never was a second. Why? If that's how I'm going to be treated on the first date, what about if we were in a relationship? I don't believe that a man should get himself into debt to find "the one" but he should be chivalrous and absolutely should pay for the first date.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm a married 33 year old female and I think the man should pay on the first date. That said, I didn't expect, or even want, dinner on the first date. As mentioned, coffee would have been fine; drinks worked, too.

    My now-husband paid on our first date (blind date for drinks). Nine years later... :)

  • I'm a lesbian, and I love that splitting the bill on the first date seems to be the norm for us around here. It seems so much more equitable. I can't imagine being a straight guy and having to shell out like that just to meet a nice girl. If I really like the girl and am praying she'll give me a second date, I will offer to pay, more than likely. But I love that it's never expected or a false...+READ

    I'm a lesbian, and I love that splitting the bill on the first date seems to be the norm for us around here. It seems so much more equitable. I can't imagine being a straight guy and having to shell out like that just to meet a nice girl. If I really like the girl and am praying she'll give me a second date, I will offer to pay, more than likely. But I love that it's never expected or a false gesture to split the tab.-COLLAPSE

  • suck it up if you don't want to pay then don't ask them out !

  • Are there actual stats to back up this statement about women expecting men to pay? Because no one I know thinks that way. First date: Each person pays for their own drink/meal, unless you're sure there's a second date to come. In fact, as a woman, I would much rather pay for my own stuff on a first date, so I don't have to worry about the guy thinking I owe him anything (some still think that...+READ

    Are there actual stats to back up this statement about women expecting men to pay? Because no one I know thinks that way. First date: Each person pays for their own drink/meal, unless you're sure there's a second date to come. In fact, as a woman, I would much rather pay for my own stuff on a first date, so I don't have to worry about the guy thinking I owe him anything (some still think that way, unfortunately).-COLLAPSE

  • p.s. I forgot to add, in case the implication wasn't clear already in my previous post, that if a man insisted on paying the bill, I would be honored and thrilled to bits. It's just that I would never assume he would.

  • I'm sorry, but as an independent, 35-year-old single woman, I've never felt the man should pay simply because he's a man. That is just so ridiculous in my mind -- it's sexist, simply put. I do not happen to spend extra money on jewelry, hair stuff, makeup, clothing, nor am I a slob in the looks department. But I also don't feel that that would be a factor, either, because that's your choice to...+READ

    I'm sorry, but as an independent, 35-year-old single woman, I've never felt the man should pay simply because he's a man. That is just so ridiculous in my mind -- it's sexist, simply put. I do not happen to spend extra money on jewelry, hair stuff, makeup, clothing, nor am I a slob in the looks department. But I also don't feel that that would be a factor, either, because that's your choice to spend extra money on yourself when that's not the only way to make yourself physically attractive. What a horrible, selfish way to reason that the man should pay for your meal because you spent money on yourself "for him."

    The only justification I can think of for having the man pay for the whole bill on the first date is if he's just obviously way richer than me. Oh, just thought of another factor: if he's much older than me. Because the reverse of that (a poorer, younger girl paying the bill) would seem kind of insulting to this particular man.

    I just find it bizarre to read so many people chiming in with the "man pays" idea in this day and age, unless most of these commenters below are of an older generation (which I would then fully understand). I also love it when anyone, man or woman, holds the door for me, but I do the same for anybody who happens to be entering someplace where I'm the first to reach the door. I just think it's common human courtesy and not a gender thing. When someone is being nice to me, I appreciate it, I don't reject it. So I'm certainly not one of "those" women. But I try to reciprocate thoughtfulness whenever I can, and this includes being a "gentleperson" to men as well, which means, of course, paying for at least my half of the bill.

    I have also been known to pay the bill for a group of platonic friends (all male) because I had a job at the time and they were struggling, and it made me feel very good about myself. Call that selfish altruism if you want, and maybe I have a streak of manliness in me, but that's how I roll.-COLLAPSE

  • Sounds like it is simply much easier being Forever Alone(tm).

  • Though I do feel sympathy for men who are truly having financial difficulty dating in these hard economic times, I think it's important to note that there are still a lot of inequities in what the genders pay for various goods and services.

    Most women, particularly those in the dating field, have a lot of extra costs that (most) men just simply don't: make-up, purses, hair products, jewelry,...+READ

    Though I do feel sympathy for men who are truly having financial difficulty dating in these hard economic times, I think it's important to note that there are still a lot of inequities in what the genders pay for various goods and services.

    Most women, particularly those in the dating field, have a lot of extra costs that (most) men just simply don't: make-up, purses, hair products, jewelry, etc. Further, sometimes the same items or services cost more for women (a basic haircut, for example, runs about $50 for me and about $20 for my husband, and that doesn't take into consideration largely female-centric "extras" at the salon like hair coloring, waxing, nails, etc.).-COLLAPSE

  • If I don't like you, I'll pay my half so that we can have a clean break and my conscience is clear.

    If I do like you, I'll let you pay in hopes that many wonderful future dates will even things out. (Wishful thinking...)

  • Any woman you wish to treat you like the man you are will expect you to treat her like the woman she is. Try not to make her feel masculine by expecting her to open her door, or wallet. Women respond to men that make them feel feminine and desirable. Make her feel special and buy her a meal. Its not a house, its not a car, its a meal. Please get over it.

  • Maybe my experience is unique but most of my first dates she paid. It's not that I didn't offer to pay either. I fully assumed I was going to pay the whole thing. However they somehow get to the bill first or insist on paying for it. I was always perplexed. The other times I usually cooked dinner at home and paying wasn't an issue.

    The way I see it is that you shouldn't meet someone for the...+READ

    Maybe my experience is unique but most of my first dates she paid. It's not that I didn't offer to pay either. I fully assumed I was going to pay the whole thing. However they somehow get to the bill first or insist on paying for it. I was always perplexed. The other times I usually cooked dinner at home and paying wasn't an issue.

    The way I see it is that you shouldn't meet someone for the first time over dinner. Coffee or a walk in the park or movies should be the first encounter. After it's established that you'll be seeing her often then it's obvious that you'll take turns paying and the awkwardness of talking about money should disappear.-COLLAPSE

  • Who ever did you the disservice of telling you the world is fair? Guys, nothing is fair in this world. Suck it up and pay for drinks the first time out. If you're going on 3-4 dates a week and are concerned what it's costing you, maybe you should spend more time evaluating why none of them have clicked. Maybe you should a) be more selective or b) figure out why you don't get m/any second dates.
    ...+READ

    Who ever did you the disservice of telling you the world is fair? Guys, nothing is fair in this world. Suck it up and pay for drinks the first time out. If you're going on 3-4 dates a week and are concerned what it's costing you, maybe you should spend more time evaluating why none of them have clicked. Maybe you should a) be more selective or b) figure out why you don't get m/any second dates.

    Back when I was single (up until late 2008) I *always* assumed I'd pay for the first several dates.-COLLAPSE

  • Rule of Thumb: If she's hot, he pays, if she's merely passable, the check is split (unless he feels sorry for her).

  • Last year when I was online dating, I would always suggest coffee as a first meeting. I found it put less pressure on the situation as well as any awkwardness about the bill. I would arrive early, get my latte and read while I waited.

    I have gone on first or second dinner dates with men who have expected to split the bill (one tossed a handful of bills on the table and said that should cover...+READ

    Last year when I was online dating, I would always suggest coffee as a first meeting. I found it put less pressure on the situation as well as any awkwardness about the bill. I would arrive early, get my latte and read while I waited.

    I have gone on first or second dinner dates with men who have expected to split the bill (one tossed a handful of bills on the table and said that should cover his half - it didn't) as well as men who have treated. (I have always had enough cash to cover myself and have always offered to split the bill.) Because I have never stopped dating someone because of how the bill was split on the first date, I have been able to do some comparison and have found that the ones who have treated tend to be more generous in other ways such as cooking or housework.-COLLAPSE

  • While I do think this is unfair, I just think of the bra and make-up and hair products that women (generally) pay for and that men (generally) don't, and I feel better about it.

    But yeah, a coffee/tea first date isn't a bad idea.

  • As someone who's gone on maybe 50 internet blind dates, maybe more, over the years I think it might not be on him that the dates are piling up. I've had streaks where a guy I'd meet online would seem like we clicked, but then he'd be boring in person or something else would be wrong. It just happens that way, sometimes many times in a row. I went a few years between good connections with men I'd...+READ

    As someone who's gone on maybe 50 internet blind dates, maybe more, over the years I think it might not be on him that the dates are piling up. I've had streaks where a guy I'd meet online would seem like we clicked, but then he'd be boring in person or something else would be wrong. It just happens that way, sometimes many times in a row. I went a few years between good connections with men I'd met online, going on lots of dates in-between.

    The expectation of who's going to pay isn't cut and dry for under-30 straight women either. At least not in this economy. If a guy is unemployed (and many around here are), it's not the turn-off it would have been a few years ago. Depending on how I was doing, I'd either offer to pay or split, or do something cheap or free. Chinese food can be a pretty cheap meal, if you know a good place. Lunch is another idea. There's also coffee that's been mentioned. Even when a guy has a job, I never assumed he'd pay. Men who couldn't afford to take me out for a meal were honest about it, probably the best way to go. The whole idea of the man paying is partly a sign that he has money to spare. If you don't, why pretend you do?

    Hiking with an internet date you just met is a BAD idea. The first meeting should ALWAYS be somewhere not just public, but highly visible. Some people are crazy. I know, I've gone out with a few. When it happens, and it happens to men too, I've always been very happy to be somewhere well-lit and heavily peopled and to have come in my own car.-COLLAPSE

  • I don't understand dinner for a first date. It should be Drinks or Coffee, Everhear of Starbucks? Even with a treat your looking at $7.00 for her. plus if you don't connect it's an easy short date. and if you do you can do something after.

  • My first thought was the same as Susan's - if this guy goes on so many first dates that do not lead to second dates, he's doing something wrong. I've been married since long before Match.com, but I work with young adults and several of my friends who are my age use Match.com. I think that the usual thing is to do something inexpensive or free (go on a hike, ride bikes, maybe meet for coffee) on...+READ

    My first thought was the same as Susan's - if this guy goes on so many first dates that do not lead to second dates, he's doing something wrong. I've been married since long before Match.com, but I work with young adults and several of my friends who are my age use Match.com. I think that the usual thing is to do something inexpensive or free (go on a hike, ride bikes, maybe meet for coffee) on the first date. I think that any woman I know would offer to split the bill and would not be put off if the offer were accepted.-COLLAPSE

  • Why would you have a meal on your first meeting? What ever happened to coffee or a drink? You save the meal for the 2nd date.

  • When I was in this situation, the man paid, although I brought him a gift for the first date that cost about as much as dinner. Let's just say we both had a good feeling about it, having corresponded by email (and a phone call or two) before the actual date. He took me to a CH favorite, and he is now my husband. That said, if I were the woman in this situation, I'd be MUCH more concerned about...+READ

    When I was in this situation, the man paid, although I brought him a gift for the first date that cost about as much as dinner. Let's just say we both had a good feeling about it, having corresponded by email (and a phone call or two) before the actual date. He took me to a CH favorite, and he is now my husband. That said, if I were the woman in this situation, I'd be MUCH more concerned about what it says that he has so many first (and first only) dates that it is getting expensive, than about being asked to split the bill. Since when are 'dozens' of first dates necessary to find a compatible match? Perhaps more 'pre-screening' could be done via email and phone, or perhaps the man in question is really more interested in finding dining companions than in finding dates? (and if so, nothing wrong with that, but setting up Chowdowns seems like a more productive approach for finding dining companions than match.com!)-COLLAPSE