When Restaurants Refuse Substitutions

Published on Tuesday, June 21, 2011, by Helena Echlin / Edit Post

Dear Helena,
I went to this new gourmet burger place where they have a bunch of different burgers on their menu. The one I asked for came with goat cheese and roasted red pepper relish. I hate goat cheese so I asked them to leave it off. They refused! WTF! How hard is it for them to leave an ingredient out? If anything, I am saving them effort and money. What is up with this insane policy, and don't you think it is rude and arrogant? How can they be so rigid? What if I were allergic to goat cheese? Surely they have to make some exceptions.
—Got My Goat

Dear Got My Goat,
When we eat out, the default expectation is that the restaurant will make minor changes to a dish, whether that is substituting salad for fries or serving the dressing on the side. But some restaurants refuse to do so. In New York, for example, the Spotted Pig has a no-substitutions policy, and is well known for refusing to serve its burger with any cheese other than Roquefort. You can ask them to leave the cheese off, however. Not so at Gjelina in Los Angeles, where the kitchen will not even omit ingredients. The menu states: "Changes & modifications politely declined." No exceptions are made, even for heavily pregnant celebrities, as Victoria Beckham recently discovered. Could she have the smoked trout salad with the dressing and most of the other ingredients on the side? No.

It may seem as if such restaurants are just being sadistic, but there are good reasons for refusing to tailor an order to the customer's specs. One is quality control. Changes could result in a bland or oversalted dish. Enrico Bortoluzzi, of the LA-based Terroni, says he refuses to serve Parmesan with the clam pasta. "It already has dried fish eggs and is very salty. Adding cheese will make it uneatable." The fear is that the diner could go home dissatisfied or, worse yet, dash off a derogatory tweet.

But diners nowadays are growing more accepting of these no-changes policies, says Helen Johannesen, director of operations at Animal in Los Angeles. Animal will not alter any dish in any way, even if you have a nut allergy and you merely want to have the restaurant's hamachi tostada without the peanut garnish. "It used to be a lot more of an issue," Johannesen says. "People couldn't understand why we couldn't do something on the side, and demanded the chef come out and explain." These days, it's rare for someone to flounce out upon being told he can't have his salad without feta—as has happened in the past. The change may be due to the restaurant's fame: Diners feel more awed by the experience than they would at their local neighborhood joint, and are therefore more willing to play by the chef's rules.

The restaurant's obligation, however, is to state the policy clearly on the menu. When declining any requests, the server should not make you feel like a child who has done something naughty. He should give a reason, says Michael Schall, general manager and co-owner of Locanda Vini e Olii in Brooklyn. For instance, when a diner asks to mix and match pastas and sauces at Schall's restaurant, servers are trained to explain, "In Italy the shape of the pasta is meant to fit a certain sauce, so they are not interchangeable."

What about exceptions in special cases, such as pregnant women, people with severe allergies, and others on highly restrictive diets? Restaurants should absolutely accommodate these diners. (Within reason, of course—vegetarians shouldn't complain if they go to a steak place and can only have a baked potato.) But they already have a way of doing so. It's called a menu. When refusing to alter a dish to suit your needs, the server should politely suggest an alternative dish off that menu for you. "We train our staff and management to mark what dishes are safe for [people on special diets]," says Animal's Johannesen. "We are not trying to make people feel bad."

You can browse all of Helena's Table Manners columns by topic here. Follow CHOW on Twitter, and become a fan on Facebook.

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POST A COMMENT |79 Comments

COMMENT

  • I will not go to any restaurant with a no-substitutes policy, and it's not as if I'm demanding or picky. I've rarely asked for any substitutes, and then only when an item actually makes me sick -- and I would willing to accept just about anything else that's edible as a substitute. Too often consumers put up with arrogant B.S. from restaurants and companies. If they showed a little backbone once...+READ

    I will not go to any restaurant with a no-substitutes policy, and it's not as if I'm demanding or picky. I've rarely asked for any substitutes, and then only when an item actually makes me sick -- and I would willing to accept just about anything else that's edible as a substitute. Too often consumers put up with arrogant B.S. from restaurants and companies. If they showed a little backbone once in a while, we would all get decent service.-COLLAPSE

  • On the one hand, I generally hate trendy restaurants. But I hate Ramsey and Beckham even more, so...good for you, Gjelina!

  • I'm torn here! On one hand, as a chef, I construct my dishes with such attention to the different flavors, textures, and cooking methods in each component; I consider them perfect as is, and if someone wants to leave something out or make a substitution, I feel it compromises the dish.

    On the other hand, it's unreasonable to expect a patron to eat something they don't want, don't like, or are...+READ

    I'm torn here! On one hand, as a chef, I construct my dishes with such attention to the different flavors, textures, and cooking methods in each component; I consider them perfect as is, and if someone wants to leave something out or make a substitution, I feel it compromises the dish.

    On the other hand, it's unreasonable to expect a patron to eat something they don't want, don't like, or are just not in the mood for. Most people are not ordering meals expecting to engage in art: they're hungry and want to be fed. A restaurant patron isn't just paying for food; they're paying for service and experience. If part of that service is to make a substitution, I would suck it up and do it.-COLLAPSE

  • My aunt owns a restaurant in switzerland.....she is also the chef, has been for the past 40 years. I have worked for her on and of, about 20. Me complaining in the kitchen once, that customers will not stick to the menu....she informt me, rather sternly, the menu is a mere suggestion, the customer afterall pays good money.....she has been extremely successful for over 40 years....... :)

  • Hope your friend is OK POAndrea, her real beef should be with the thousands upon thousands of allergy phonies out there. They are the reason the chef did what he did...cause he's done it hundreds of times before and nothing happened.

  • I can't stand picky eaters, and this new thing where they are all "allergic" to something is BS. Think any kid in Ethiopia is allergic to peanuts? Sack up, grow up, and eat the dish the way the chef intended.

  • Okay, I work in a restaurant, and we do everything within our power to present you with a dish you will love, that has flavors you enjoy, and that will not cause an allergic reaction. We WANT you to enjoy your experience. Now, that being said, sometimes we simply cannot accommodate a diner - for instance, a woman who claimed a "literally deadly allergy to any kind of fish, not shellfish, FISH."...+READ

    Okay, I work in a restaurant, and we do everything within our power to present you with a dish you will love, that has flavors you enjoy, and that will not cause an allergic reaction. We WANT you to enjoy your experience. Now, that being said, sometimes we simply cannot accommodate a diner - for instance, a woman who claimed a "literally deadly allergy to any kind of fish, not shellfish, FISH." As a Vietnamese establishment with fish sauce EVERYWHERE in the kitchen we simply could not, in good conscience, serve her. She was very upset, and after some panting and grinding her teeth she finally admitted that she just doesn't *like* fish. Lying about it was SO unnecessary. I've had customers argue about ingredients with me (a celiac customer insisting there was no gluten in a dish they wanted - there was, why would I lie about that?!) fly into a panic when they *imagined* a grain of black pepper on their meal (it was cumin) and my favorite, a full-grown man who sullenly picked through his dish in horror because he refused to eat anything green, ordered *basil chicken*, and neglected to tell the waiter his phobia.
    So, as much as we want everyone to be happy, I can totally understand where these restaurants are coming from with a simple "no-substituions" rule.-COLLAPSE

  • I absolutely support the chefs in this debate. If I have guests and they express a dislike or have an allergy to an ingredient in a dish I have been preparing for years and feel I have mastered, I'm not going to omit or make a substitution unless I absolutely know that this substitution won't negatively impact the final result; I'll simply make them something else that can accommodate their...+READ

    I absolutely support the chefs in this debate. If I have guests and they express a dislike or have an allergy to an ingredient in a dish I have been preparing for years and feel I have mastered, I'm not going to omit or make a substitution unless I absolutely know that this substitution won't negatively impact the final result; I'll simply make them something else that can accommodate their limitations. These chefs are basically doing the same thing in a restaurant environment: if you can't eat this particular creation of mine, please select another.-COLLAPSE

  • In just about every instance where the chef has refused to omit an ingredient or won't make a dish the way I like it, I have picked myself up and left the restaurant. I'm not a difficult diner but I'm not going to cave in to a prima donna chef's whims. For example, one chef in Vermont who'd just gotten a great review in the NY Times, would not cook my duck medium rare. The waitress exclaimed "the...+READ

    In just about every instance where the chef has refused to omit an ingredient or won't make a dish the way I like it, I have picked myself up and left the restaurant. I'm not a difficult diner but I'm not going to cave in to a prima donna chef's whims. For example, one chef in Vermont who'd just gotten a great review in the NY Times, would not cook my duck medium rare. The waitress exclaimed "the chef does not believe in medium rare and serves the duck very rare." I left with my girlfriend. Why should I spend my hard-earned money to accommodate the kitchen - it's usually the other way around.

    Another time I tried ordering eggs over easy at a Chelsea brunch restaurant in Manhattan. The chef refused and thought it was beneath him to make the dish. I got so annoyed that I went back to the kitchen to talk to the chef and was told he wasn't around. Coward. Later, I got my eggs over easy but this situation shouldn't have occurred in the first place. When the owner came in and said hello to me, I didn't mention the egg incident but later the waiter comped my entire table. I don't want a comp - I just want something cooked the way I like it.

    Hounds - vote with your wallet and see how this changes but first talk to the manager or chef and let them know why 'these feet are made for walkin.'-COLLAPSE

  • The interesting thing about POAndrea's story is that the problem would have been averted with a well-posted and firm 'no substitutions' policy. The restaurant in her story was 100% in the wrong, but that's not really what we're talking about here.

  • This has been an interesting thread to follow.

    POAndrea, I hope your friend considered legal action against the restaurant - to lie about ingredients becuase of an attitude towards perceived prima donnas seems to me to be the restaurant equivalent of malpractice.

  • ." These days, it's rare for someone to flounce out upon being told he can't have his salad without feta—as has happened in the past. The change may be due to the restaurant's fame: Diners feel more awed by the experience than they would at their local neighborhood joint, and are therefore more willing to play by the chef's rules."

    Inflated ego/s much?

    I have the easist solution to this...+READ

    ." These days, it's rare for someone to flounce out upon being told he can't have his salad without feta—as has happened in the past. The change may be due to the restaurant's fame: Diners feel more awed by the experience than they would at their local neighborhood joint, and are therefore more willing to play by the chef's rules."

    Inflated ego/s much?

    I have the easist solution to this assinine rule some restaurants have. I don't go back. They can have the best menu, best service, best everything, but if they cannot accomodate my request to hold the 'whatever', because I cannot eat it, or I do not like it, then screw them, I'll take my money elsewhere. There's a wealth of high end restaurants, diners, gourmet burger joints, steak houses, Ethnic restaurants etc, in my area that have no problem accomodating my or my friends requests. No restaurant is worth anyones time if they have to obey the "chefs rules" about the food they're about to order. That's a sure sign to stand up and leave.-COLLAPSE

  • Venus, I'll show up at these restaurants. I'll pay my hard earned money. I ask only that a restaurant make excellent food in my price range and serve it in a reasonably efficient and friendly manner. If the best way for a restaurant to do this is to post a strict no-substitutions policy and let those who can't abide eat elsewhere, fine by me.

    There are plenty of places that cater to picky...+READ

    Venus, I'll show up at these restaurants. I'll pay my hard earned money. I ask only that a restaurant make excellent food in my price range and serve it in a reasonably efficient and friendly manner. If the best way for a restaurant to do this is to post a strict no-substitutions policy and let those who can't abide eat elsewhere, fine by me.

    There are plenty of places that cater to picky eaters and those with foods that, for whatever reason, they cannot eat. I have nothing against these businesses, and I'll give them my money too. But they're not the ONLY way to run a restaurant. Not every venue has to accommodate everybody, despite what the whiners and overly entitled gasbags have posted here.-COLLAPSE

  • On the issue of omitting goat cheese: Would a chef rather a customer order a dish without the offending ingredient in it, but that she will only find passable... or would a chef prefer the customer order the dish with the cheese and then get it sans cheese... and absolutely loving the end results? I would hope the chef would want the latter situation. If not, the chef absolutely has the right to...+READ

    On the issue of omitting goat cheese: Would a chef rather a customer order a dish without the offending ingredient in it, but that she will only find passable... or would a chef prefer the customer order the dish with the cheese and then get it sans cheese... and absolutely loving the end results? I would hope the chef would want the latter situation. If not, the chef absolutely has the right to say no. I believe in free capitalism and you should be able to run your business any way you see fit. However, I think that chefs who are that anal are lousy chefs and I would probably never go back.-COLLAPSE

  • I can understand a no substitution policy but call complete bullshit on a restaurant that won't omit a peanut garnish or leave off cheese for someone with an allergy.

  • You sound like an agent for the Rigid Restaurant Refuse. NO, WE ARE NOT BEGINING TO ACCEPT THIS CRAP. Please do not prevaricate.
    Restaurants who attempt to enforce this draconian policy will suffer financially, ESPECIALLY in these hard times, so please do not continue trying to make this seem acceptable or accepted. Paying customers say NO.

  • In some cases, take off some ingredient is ok. but many people ask for sub. an ingredient for another more expensive, no one do that. The customer must understand that or other people want make their own dish, that is impossible as well.

  • The policy of no substitutions is quite valid especially as it affects matters of food quality as you pointed out. Particularly at higher end restaurants where the dishes are carefully crafted to achieve their flavours and balanced aspects. The chef who created the dish presumably didn't throw the ingredients on for sh*ts and giggles, every ingredient serves a purpose. When this gets modded it...+READ

    The policy of no substitutions is quite valid especially as it affects matters of food quality as you pointed out. Particularly at higher end restaurants where the dishes are carefully crafted to achieve their flavours and balanced aspects. The chef who created the dish presumably didn't throw the ingredients on for sh*ts and giggles, every ingredient serves a purpose. When this gets modded it throws the balance and the flavour off. I've witnessed it in both restaurants I have worked at and when dining out. The guy who designed the dish is a professional who has actually trained on how to do this, would you second guess your electrician or plumber? That is sort of what you're doing when you mod your food order.

    Another reason is that when the cooks are in the middle of a rush they do tend to go into an autopilot mode and start constructing the dish, almost on instinct, the way it is usually made. Any deviation from this throws them off their rhythm at this time and can result in longer bill times as they will frequently finish the dish and then realize they forgot all about the requested modification and have to remake the dish from the beginning which causes everything to slow down. That's why you will also see no mod policies at busy restaurants that might not be particularly high end.-COLLAPSE

  • I highly recommend that if a person has allergies, food issues or is very finicky that they call the restaurant before going - I try and call during a normally slow time like morning or late afternoon. You can usually get a copy of the menu online and if not most restaurants will email it to you or discuss it over the phone. I'm trying to avoid eating GMO's so I like to make sure no corn or...+READ

    I highly recommend that if a person has allergies, food issues or is very finicky that they call the restaurant before going - I try and call during a normally slow time like morning or late afternoon. You can usually get a copy of the menu online and if not most restaurants will email it to you or discuss it over the phone. I'm trying to avoid eating GMO's so I like to make sure no corn or canola oil or soy that is not organic has been used. I also want to avoid eating salmon or shrimp that aren't wild and I want to eat meat that is pasture raised. That's a lot to ask a server when you go to a restaurant, isn't anything that is life threatening and is very boring for the other diners with me - so I merely call ahead and have always been treated graciously.-COLLAPSE

  • HowardJuno: a reasonable, balanced response.

    Panini Guy: I agree; I really don't understand the indignation. To me the better part of being a Chowhound is exploring, learning. The notion that the customer is always right is BS. Seems to me the whole point of going to a restaurant is discovering what the chef can do. If you think you can do it better, you're free to do so in your own kitchen....+READ

    HowardJuno: a reasonable, balanced response.

    Panini Guy: I agree; I really don't understand the indignation. To me the better part of being a Chowhound is exploring, learning. The notion that the customer is always right is BS. Seems to me the whole point of going to a restaurant is discovering what the chef can do. If you think you can do it better, you're free to do so in your own kitchen. If you think someone else can do it better, you're free to go elsewhere.

    Don't we all take pride in our jobs, in doing them well by our own definitions? Don't we all balk at compromising our integrity as professionals? If some chefs have reached a point in their careers where they don't have to cater to everyone, more power to them—not many chefs reach that point without the talent and the vision to back it up. Assuming it's within the law, business owners have a right to run their businesses the way they see fit. You have the right not to patronize them, to complain, etc.

    For some chefs, it's not "just food," it's their life's work. And of course, the converse is true as well—it's just a meal, a brief moment in time. Are you so picky and so petulant that if you can't have THIS dish THIS way, your whole experience is ruined? Isn't that the antithesis to Chowhoundism?-COLLAPSE

  • "...An inflexible rule, clearly stated saves a lot of grief, but a considerate response from the server helps, too."
    BINGO! HOW information is presented is infinitely more important than the content of the information. Adults that are employed, USUALLY are responsible enough to realize that every organization of any size must have rules and procedures that are adhered to. USUALLY responsible...+READ

    "...An inflexible rule, clearly stated saves a lot of grief, but a considerate response from the server helps, too."
    BINGO! HOW information is presented is infinitely more important than the content of the information. Adults that are employed, USUALLY are responsible enough to realize that every organization of any size must have rules and procedures that are adhered to. USUALLY responsible enough....
    The only thing more ignorant than trying to please 100% of customers, 100% of the time, is to think that is even possible.
    Restaurant staff performing their jobs professionally utilize courtesy in all of their communications...."steering" a customer's request toward an alternate choice often works.
    There's no person alive that likes hearing NO to something they want......but there are NOs in life.
    HOW the NOs are explained is all important.
    There will always be the "impossible to please" customers in every business, but they are a very small %. Focusing time and attention toward the "other" 99% of customers will work best 99% of the time.
    When is a score of 99 something to be ashamed of?-COLLAPSE

  • I can sort of go along with the newly most arrogant group in the world (barely nosing out CEOs), but I don't think not eliminating peanuts from a dish for someone with an allergy. If it wasn't life threatening the diner could agree to take it as is and call an ambulance before eating.

    A good cook can easily cope with one less ingredient. Adding can be something that should be withheld since it...+READ

    I can sort of go along with the newly most arrogant group in the world (barely nosing out CEOs), but I don't think not eliminating peanuts from a dish for someone with an allergy. If it wasn't life threatening the diner could agree to take it as is and call an ambulance before eating.

    A good cook can easily cope with one less ingredient. Adding can be something that should be withheld since it is sometimes impossible.-COLLAPSE

  • Furthermore, presumably a restaurant is chosen because of what it offers. If that venue does not honor or fails to meet expectations then complaints and even nasty tweets are perhaps justifiable.

  • The venue should clearly state a 'no substitution' policy. It can be tough to change restaurants, so walking out is not always an easy option. Obviously some ingredients can't be easily picked off or out. Most places list ingredients in menus posted in their windows. To chefs, some customers are finicky and frivolous hornbusters who will NEVER be happy and aren't worth the time. Finally, a...+READ

    The venue should clearly state a 'no substitution' policy. It can be tough to change restaurants, so walking out is not always an easy option. Obviously some ingredients can't be easily picked off or out. Most places list ingredients in menus posted in their windows. To chefs, some customers are finicky and frivolous hornbusters who will NEVER be happy and aren't worth the time. Finally, a restaurant that plays that game knows it is catering to discretionary spenders. It's all about choices and odds. If the tomato-raspberry-pickled-flaxseed-lemon torte isn't selling, it has to go, no matter how ignorant the people who pay the bills may be. Restauranteurs must know their markets and meet expectations of enough people to stay in business. An inflexible rule, clearly stated saves a lot of grief, but a considerate response from the server helps, too.-COLLAPSE

  • thomas64
    Thomas, there are as many different types of restaurant offerings as there are different types of customers. The restaurants I had were large volume restaurants with an average of 5-700 customers each dinner shift. With menu offerings that serve a much smaller # of customers per shift, then different options come into play. I was only speaking to what my stores were like and required. I...+READ

    thomas64
    Thomas, there are as many different types of restaurant offerings as there are different types of customers. The restaurants I had were large volume restaurants with an average of 5-700 customers each dinner shift. With menu offerings that serve a much smaller # of customers per shift, then different options come into play. I was only speaking to what my stores were like and required. I don't have the experience to speak about menu offerings outside of my personal experience.-COLLAPSE

  • From Joelgg: "In any kitchen where there are several people standing around in the kitchen, and have all the time necessary to make substitutions, is a restaurant soon to close."

    Sorry Joe, you're wrong. I have talked to chefs of busy kitchens who are more than happy to accommodate customers' requests. So, how do you explain that? They're still working. How do you explain that? They're...+READ

    From Joelgg: "In any kitchen where there are several people standing around in the kitchen, and have all the time necessary to make substitutions, is a restaurant soon to close."

    Sorry Joe, you're wrong. I have talked to chefs of busy kitchens who are more than happy to accommodate customers' requests. So, how do you explain that? They're still working. How do you explain that? They're restaurants are popular. How do you explain that?-COLLAPSE

  • As a (16 units) restaurant owner over 22 years maybe this explanation will make sense. Every kitchen is a factory...a food factory/assembly line. Many people working in a small area and like any team effort, there is a flow and rhythm when everyone and everything is coordinated. Substitutions are like stopping an auto-assembly production line. The entire assembly line has to stop, and alter...+READ

    As a (16 units) restaurant owner over 22 years maybe this explanation will make sense. Every kitchen is a factory...a food factory/assembly line. Many people working in a small area and like any team effort, there is a flow and rhythm when everyone and everything is coordinated. Substitutions are like stopping an auto-assembly production line. The entire assembly line has to stop, and alter steps, Rhythm and Synchronicity is disrupted. Like causing a pitcher to stop or alter his wind-up, or asking a question in the middle of some speaker's speech.
    When the flow is disrupted by even one person's order, that rhythm-break affects every other tables' orders in the kitchen.
    In any kitchen where there are several people standing around in the kitchen, and have all the time necessary to make substitutions, is a restaurant soon to close.
    Of course you want to please every customers, but no one customer is worth affecting every other customers overall experience.
    Procedures are set up to please the most customers.
    Of course no customer wanting an explanation of the no-substitution policy could really care less what's involved with pleasing ALL of the customers, they just are concerned for themselves and what THEY want....
    So, you just say you're sorry you can't do substitutions and then get back to pleasing all those other several hundred customers.
    Professional cooking is not like entertaining a group of people in someone's home.
    You aren't really telling a customer you don't care about what THEY want , you are making sure all the other tables of customers are getting what they ordered and in the proper time span they are expecting to receive it.
    Whatever some group of people are doing exceptionally well, or some sports team performing as they should.....have that flow and rhythm....in sports it's called Momentum-COLLAPSE

  • Seriously? A chef's "vision" trumps not only a diner's tastes but his or her health? The most frightening experience of my life was watching a friend nearly die of an allergic reaction. When ordering, she told the server about her allergy and asked him to check with the chef that her meal choices were truly free of peanuts. The chef verified that there were no peanuts or peanut products in her...+READ

    Seriously? A chef's "vision" trumps not only a diner's tastes but his or her health? The most frightening experience of my life was watching a friend nearly die of an allergic reaction. When ordering, she told the server about her allergy and asked him to check with the chef that her meal choices were truly free of peanuts. The chef verified that there were no peanuts or peanut products in her meal, so she ate it. And went into anaphylactic shock. She had one dose left in her epi-pen, and it was not enough; the ambulance took almost 30 minutes to arrive at the restaurant. When questioned, the chef admitted that the food did indeed contain peanuts AND was cooked with peanut oil; he lied because he didn't believe my friend was truly allergic to peanuts. He also stated practically all the other dishes contained or were cooked with peanut oil and that he was unwilling to substitute ingredients or change his cooking oil. He called diners who ask for substitutions or voice objections to certain ingredients "prima donnas" and stated most of these "drama queens" who claim food allergies are lying so they can get attention. To be sure, my prima donna friend got a LOT of special attention that day, but it was at the emergency room and not his restaurant.......-COLLAPSE

  • The funniest thing about the whole Gjelina story is that they refused to do a substitution for - not Mr. and Mrs. Joe Walmart but FOX-TV chef-whore GORDON RAMSAY and professional-fashionista-anorexic POSH BECKHAM of all people. Like Gordon Ramsay doesn't know how substitutions slow down a service and like they didn't have a whole fucking city of restaurants to choose from if Posh knew she...+READ

    The funniest thing about the whole Gjelina story is that they refused to do a substitution for - not Mr. and Mrs. Joe Walmart but FOX-TV chef-whore GORDON RAMSAY and professional-fashionista-anorexic POSH BECKHAM of all people. Like Gordon Ramsay doesn't know how substitutions slow down a service and like they didn't have a whole fucking city of restaurants to choose from if Posh knew she wanted/needed a specific dish. If you, assuming you are a normal non-celebrity paying customer, can't eat the dish the way the restaurant prepares it the best thing is to ask the server for a recommendation for something you CAN eat. Now if they won't accommodate you on that then, yes, they shouldn't be running a restaurant and chances are they won't be for long.-COLLAPSE

  • Lots of things wrong with the food world today. Blogs, foodtv, etc. And the now accepted idea that chefs are "artists" with "ideals." Blah blah blah.

    Guess what, chefs, you are in a service industry. I have met both slime and consummate professionals, great people, who work in restaurants. Spare me the jeremiad and do your GD job, which is serving people food. You aren't Michelangelo. I don't...+READ

    Lots of things wrong with the food world today. Blogs, foodtv, etc. And the now accepted idea that chefs are "artists" with "ideals." Blah blah blah.

    Guess what, chefs, you are in a service industry. I have met both slime and consummate professionals, great people, who work in restaurants. Spare me the jeremiad and do your GD job, which is serving people food. You aren't Michelangelo. I don't let my maid do things her way, either, FWIW.-COLLAPSE

  • This is really pretty simple. Know about the restaurant before you go there. Generally speaking, if they have a no substitutions policy it's on the website or mentioned in restaurant reviews. If you're the kind of person who is picky about your food, just don't go to those restaurants.

    I do not understand why this is a difficult concept.

    The reason for many no substitution restaurants being...+READ

    This is really pretty simple. Know about the restaurant before you go there. Generally speaking, if they have a no substitutions policy it's on the website or mentioned in restaurant reviews. If you're the kind of person who is picky about your food, just don't go to those restaurants.

    I do not understand why this is a difficult concept.

    The reason for many no substitution restaurants being successful is precisely because by offering no substitutions they can attract better staff and there are fewer mistakes on the line. Diners put their trust in the kitchen and roll with it.

    I've rarely been disappointed in any visit to a no substitution restaurant. And I've been introduced to a few foods and combinations I've never experienced before. It can be a win-win for folks who are open to it.-COLLAPSE

  • Their Restaurant - their rules.

    My money - my rules.

    Where is kindness and tolerance?

  • I'm intrigued by the post comparing those in the food service industry with other professionals such as doctors and dentists (not the first time I have seen that comparison on Chow) when last weeks column was filled with comments about how it's ok for people working in restaurants to use drugs. Are you professionals or no? If you wouldn't want your doctor smoking pot on the job, then don't...+READ

    I'm intrigued by the post comparing those in the food service industry with other professionals such as doctors and dentists (not the first time I have seen that comparison on Chow) when last weeks column was filled with comments about how it's ok for people working in restaurants to use drugs. Are you professionals or no? If you wouldn't want your doctor smoking pot on the job, then don't compare yourself to a doctor in other regards.-COLLAPSE

  • I work near an incredible tomato pie restaurant called Delorenzo's in Hamilton NJ. Their tomatoe pie is incredible...just search the NJ board and you'll see.
    However, I go there, order a pie, it comes to the table, and I ask for grated parmesan.....I always put a little grated parmesan on my pizza. I'm told that they don't offer it because the pizza stands on its own and needs nothing.
    Are you...+READ

    I work near an incredible tomato pie restaurant called Delorenzo's in Hamilton NJ. Their tomatoe pie is incredible...just search the NJ board and you'll see.
    However, I go there, order a pie, it comes to the table, and I ask for grated parmesan.....I always put a little grated parmesan on my pizza. I'm told that they don't offer it because the pizza stands on its own and needs nothing.
    Are you kidding me??? Damn, the pizza is delicious, but I LIKE the taste of a little grated parm on my pizza and feel that it would complement the taste, not destroy it. Who the hell are they to tell me I can't have any grated cheese???
    I seriously won't go there because of this. I'm a paying customer...I'm paying to eat your pizza.....I like parmesan on my pizza......I know that they have it somewhere for other stuff......what am I a child????-COLLAPSE

  • Shattered is right on. If you don't like what you see go back to your colonel, king, or clown and get your ordinary food. People like shattered and I work hard to make awesome food just so you can nit pick. No one is making you eat something and god forbid anyone try anything new in this stupid country.

  • Shattered -- would you please tell me the name of your restaurant so I can be sure not to go there?

  • What a bunch of whiny overprivileged brats. Yes indeed, vote with your dollars. Do us in the restaurant business a favour and stay the f#ck home! We'd LOVE it.

  • My favorite is when people come in with a 3 X 5 notecard with a list of all the things they can't eat (front and back). And they think I have time to read this. I really want the stress of possibly killing someone because some peanut dust may or may have not touched their food in the 3000 mile journey to their table. I once had a woman tell me she was allergic to ALL seasonings. Why the hell is...+READ

    My favorite is when people come in with a 3 X 5 notecard with a list of all the things they can't eat (front and back). And they think I have time to read this. I really want the stress of possibly killing someone because some peanut dust may or may have not touched their food in the 3000 mile journey to their table. I once had a woman tell me she was allergic to ALL seasonings. Why the hell is she at a restaurant then?-COLLAPSE

  • Next thing you know they'll be standing next to your seat instructing you how to take each mouthful in the chef-prescribed manner ("No, the chef has determined that unless you take a bite of the pickle first the burger won't taste as good, so you must do it that way") and taking your plate away if you fail to comply.

  • I assume that the person ordered that particular burger because he wanted to other special ingredients on the burger, i.e. the roasted red pepper relish (can't blame him -- sounds delish). If that was the only burger it was available on, surely it was more reasonable to ask them to omit the goat cheese than to add it to one of the other burgers. If you're going to load up every dish with multiple...+READ

    I assume that the person ordered that particular burger because he wanted to other special ingredients on the burger, i.e. the roasted red pepper relish (can't blame him -- sounds delish). If that was the only burger it was available on, surely it was more reasonable to ask them to omit the goat cheese than to add it to one of the other burgers. If you're going to load up every dish with multiple unique ingredients then I think you should be flexible about taking some of them off. As rworange so aptly put it, it's just food. In this case, it's just a burger -- WTF with the attitude? We're not talking French Laundry here, although in fact, French Laundry is much more accommodating of special requests.-COLLAPSE

  • I'm paying for the food, I should have a right to get what I want on it. I'd scrape the cheese off with a knife and smear it onto the table. " said I didn't want it. You can keep it."
    If I want that foigra(sp) smothered with ketchup, then damn well bring me a bottle of ketchup!

    As for those who say you don't tell other profession how to do their jobs, yes you do. I'm going to tell the...+READ

    I'm paying for the food, I should have a right to get what I want on it. I'd scrape the cheese off with a knife and smear it onto the table. " said I didn't want it. You can keep it."
    If I want that foigra(sp) smothered with ketchup, then damn well bring me a bottle of ketchup!

    As for those who say you don't tell other profession how to do their jobs, yes you do. I'm going to tell the contractor working on my house what drywall to use. If I don't like oil paints, I'm going to tell that painter to use acrylic on my walls. If I buy a car and I don't like leather seats, I'm going to get cloth seats.
    I'm asking for one topping to be left off/put on. It's not like I'm order pre-made soup and asking for no tomatoes. Or for a mutton hotdog.
    This is MY money that I am giving up. Not the other way around.-COLLAPSE

  • ak, the chef HAS thought of a way to make things taste better without goat cheese; it's likely every single other item on the menu. If you don't like goat cheese, don't order the goat cheese burger. Why is that a difficult concept?

  • well wouldn't it be a beautiful thing, where instead of being so worried about quality control, maybe the chef could think about how to make it taste better without the goat cheese? she/he is the chef after all, not a recipe-reading automaton. perhaps it won't taste as great. but simple human interaction between the chef and the eater would be a cute thing in itself. it's called being human,...+READ

    well wouldn't it be a beautiful thing, where instead of being so worried about quality control, maybe the chef could think about how to make it taste better without the goat cheese? she/he is the chef after all, not a recipe-reading automaton. perhaps it won't taste as great. but simple human interaction between the chef and the eater would be a cute thing in itself. it's called being human, spontaneous. it's what organic is, not only in terms of food, but in terms of spirit.-COLLAPSE

  • p.s.: If I seem like a bad fit for foodservice because of that response I'd like to say a) It's the internet. You can vent here. b) I quit after having someone with a VERY similar tone throw half a plate of pasta on me because, in the middle of dinner rush, she dragged me out to the middle of the floor, loudly proclaimed that this was "utter garbage" and said that bleu cheese would have obviously...+READ

    p.s.: If I seem like a bad fit for foodservice because of that response I'd like to say a) It's the internet. You can vent here. b) I quit after having someone with a VERY similar tone throw half a plate of pasta on me because, in the middle of dinner rush, she dragged me out to the middle of the floor, loudly proclaimed that this was "utter garbage" and said that bleu cheese would have obviously been a better choice. When I told her that we spent a lot of time designing the dish and did try bleu cheese, and that it threw everything out of whack and I wasn't going to substitute it (which handily meant remaking the whole thing halfway into her meal) she said "fine, you eat it" and threw it all over the front of me.

    We cook food not because we don't give a crap, we cook food because we genuinely want to make something that is our own, that is good, that intrigues you, that maybe eschews your traditional preferences and introduces you to something different.

    The owners of MOST restaurants learn a saying pretty fast: A restaurant is a great way to take a large pile of money and turn it into a small one.

    We cook because we enjoy it.

    And I have yet to meet anyone that approached substitutions as something that should...just happen. Your expectation SHOULD be that no substitutions will be made (unless its McDonalds or Qdoba (sorry to lump them together lol)), not the other way around. If you are allergic, you might have better luck, but you should still, at any GOOD restaurant, expect to be told, politely, that you should look for something else on the menu.

    Substituting goat milk for cow in a white sauce may SEEM simple. But it isn't. And the odds of you realizing YOU caused the bad meal are slim to none.

    So the people who bust their ass, pour their heart into their work, and don't make much for it, still end up paying for it.

    You don't tell your doctor what type of scalpel to use or your dentist what X-Ray machine to use do you?-COLLAPSE

  • Wow...it must REALLY suck to be told no...as a person who worked in a gourmet rest. I can say...I don't give a damn if you don't like goat cheese. If you don't like it...order something else.

    I didn't spend time crafting a dish just for some overly-entitled nitwit to come in and slobber catchup on their steak and bitch about my choice of cheese.

    "What if I was allergic to goat...+READ

    Wow...it must REALLY suck to be told no...as a person who worked in a gourmet rest. I can say...I don't give a damn if you don't like goat cheese. If you don't like it...order something else.

    I didn't spend time crafting a dish just for some overly-entitled nitwit to come in and slobber catchup on their steak and bitch about my choice of cheese.

    "What if I was allergic to goat cheese"...well then, princess, I'd assume you'd be in posession of enough functioning brain cells to NOT ORDER SOMETHING WITH GOAT CHEESE IN IT...

    Jesus christ...the epitome of why it SUCKS to work in foodservice.-COLLAPSE

  • amnahp12: precisely the point. There are plenty of restaurants that will accommodate requests/substitutions. So if, for medical or other reasons, you're inclined toward such accommodations, why insist on choosing a place that isn't inclined toward granting them?

    Meanwhile, the assumption that it's a status issue rather than a chef's concern for integrity and consistency is unfounded in this...+READ

    amnahp12: precisely the point. There are plenty of restaurants that will accommodate requests/substitutions. So if, for medical or other reasons, you're inclined toward such accommodations, why insist on choosing a place that isn't inclined toward granting them?

    Meanwhile, the assumption that it's a status issue rather than a chef's concern for integrity and consistency is unfounded in this scenario.

    basildip: lovely story, but once you've developed a personal relationship with the chef, you're operating under a different set of circumstances than those proposed here.-COLLAPSE

  • I think if the diner is a regular and has established a trusting relationship with the chef/owner, the kitchen
    should accommodate that patron. The Thai restaurant I ate at for years eventually made numerous
    substitutions for me. But I never request those changes, until the chef/owner knew me and what made
    me tick. When she began to tailor my orders just for me, she had a customer for life. She...+READ

    I think if the diner is a regular and has established a trusting relationship with the chef/owner, the kitchen
    should accommodate that patron. The Thai restaurant I ate at for years eventually made numerous
    substitutions for me. But I never request those changes, until the chef/owner knew me and what made
    me tick. When she began to tailor my orders just for me, she had a customer for life. She has relocated 600 miles north of me, so I no longer get all the wonderful foods she prepared for me. But,
    when health permits I will definitely make that drive to sit in her dining room and be pampered by her.
    I will not be able to go as often as I preferred, 2-3 times a week, but I will go. If she had not been
    willing to tailor her foods to my liking, she would be just another restaurateur who moved away.-COLLAPSE

  • to edit my previous statement: dining is not a privilege, it is a service. Additionally, the restaurant I worked in that catered immensely to every customer is one of the busiest restaurants, and at THE busiest resort, in the entire world. Get to know what you're doing, and it won't slow you down.

  • to sir applebottom III, Dining is a privilege we pay a LOT of money for. A menu is not always reliable, as sometimes it isn't as open or appealing to every diner as the restaurant might like. If a diner wants to 'ruin' the prestige status of their meal with substitutions, it should be up to them - tastes and sensitivities were not all created the same. I personally am put off by the arrogance of...+READ

    to sir applebottom III, Dining is a privilege we pay a LOT of money for. A menu is not always reliable, as sometimes it isn't as open or appealing to every diner as the restaurant might like. If a diner wants to 'ruin' the prestige status of their meal with substitutions, it should be up to them - tastes and sensitivities were not all created the same. I personally am put off by the arrogance of these policies - and I have worked in restaurants that accommodate EVERY request - going as far as pre-ordering kosher food, making special meals, and attending to every food sensitivity or restriction to the highest standards. I have never seen happier customers, who have trouble finding that kind of service elsewhere. If every restaurant can't cater to that standard, fine, the diner should know upfront - but it shouldn't become a status thing where leaving out an ingredient becomes cause for war.-COLLAPSE

  • I've worked in restaurants where every single request was accommodated. One time I was even asked to make a lunch entree while I was working dinner. I had never worked lunch at this particular restaurant but had to stop everything and try to figure out how to make this disch. All in the midst of trying to keep up with cooking for 300 other people. The dish came out crappy, the customer was upset...+READ

    I've worked in restaurants where every single request was accommodated. One time I was even asked to make a lunch entree while I was working dinner. I had never worked lunch at this particular restaurant but had to stop everything and try to figure out how to make this disch. All in the midst of trying to keep up with cooking for 300 other people. The dish came out crappy, the customer was upset and the rest of the staff was mad at me for slowing down service. It's one thing to leave something out but sometimes people as for things that just don't go together. My motto now is if you don't like my food then eat somewhere else. You can't sacrifice a whole dinner service trying to make one person happy.-COLLAPSE

  • I don't tell a pilot how to fly a plane when I travel. I don't tell an artist how to paint. And I certainly don't tell a chef how to make my dish when I'm at his/her restaurant. Dining is a privilege and we shouldn't be altering a chef's vision of how food is experienced. Their house. Their rules.

    By the way, I have food allergies too. If a restaurant's menu is in conflict with my diet, then I...+READ

    I don't tell a pilot how to fly a plane when I travel. I don't tell an artist how to paint. And I certainly don't tell a chef how to make my dish when I'm at his/her restaurant. Dining is a privilege and we shouldn't be altering a chef's vision of how food is experienced. Their house. Their rules.

    By the way, I have food allergies too. If a restaurant's menu is in conflict with my diet, then I just go elsewhere. No hard feelings.-COLLAPSE

  • As on the thread about Gjelina, where this has been debated ad nauseam, I'm with cowboyardee. It's their restaurant, their rules, and the restaurateur is aware of the risk he/she incurs in losing some customers by abiding by those rules. So long as the rules are made clear up front, I'd be more inclined to consider the customer the "arrogant jerk" who thinks he/she is above rules. If you don't...+READ

    As on the thread about Gjelina, where this has been debated ad nauseam, I'm with cowboyardee. It's their restaurant, their rules, and the restaurateur is aware of the risk he/she incurs in losing some customers by abiding by those rules. So long as the rules are made clear up front, I'd be more inclined to consider the customer the "arrogant jerk" who thinks he/she is above rules. If you don't like what's offered, go somewhere else.

    As for the kid who didn't get his plain pasta—sounds like a restaurant that wasn't meant for kids in the first place.-COLLAPSE

  • I think the arrogant jerks who run such restaurants need to read the following quote and commit it to memory:

    “There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else.” Sam Walton

  • Chakrateeze -
    Perhaps the chef in question was freaking busy, and not some monkey on a string who comes out dancing whenever some spoiled, entitled twit demands it.

    If the restaurant has a no substitution policy and you don't like it, take your money elsewhere. Simple. Easy. You don't own the business in question, and calling someone names for their business decision reveals more about you...+READ

    Chakrateeze -
    Perhaps the chef in question was freaking busy, and not some monkey on a string who comes out dancing whenever some spoiled, entitled twit demands it.

    If the restaurant has a no substitution policy and you don't like it, take your money elsewhere. Simple. Easy. You don't own the business in question, and calling someone names for their business decision reveals more about you than the chef. There are perfectly good reasons not to allow menu changes.-COLLAPSE

  • It's simple: My restaurant my rules. You no like? You no go.

  • oh and also, if youre truly allergic to goat cheese, never get the goat cheese burger even when you can sub no goat cheese. there is a good chance the cheese would be scraped off seconds before it gets served to you when they notice the mod.

  • I can understand not adding stuff to a diner's dinner or not mixing sauces and pastas, which is a legitimate stand to take. But LEAVING STUFF OUT? wth! How does that hurt anything? How does that damage a chef or a restaurant?

    This reminds me of chef in London, who refused to serve a kid plain pasta instead of a full, complicated entree, in which the pasta was a part. And THEN, wouldn't come to...+READ

    I can understand not adding stuff to a diner's dinner or not mixing sauces and pastas, which is a legitimate stand to take. But LEAVING STUFF OUT? wth! How does that hurt anything? How does that damage a chef or a restaurant?

    This reminds me of chef in London, who refused to serve a kid plain pasta instead of a full, complicated entree, in which the pasta was a part. And THEN, wouldn't come to the table and explain why he refused to do it. The father of the kid, who was set to spend about 900 pounds, and the ten other patrons in the party, stood up en masse and walked out.

    That would've been the end of it, but a food critic was sitting a table over and now whenever he talks about the chef in question, he brings up the chef's cowardly, non-accommodating behavior. And, I for one applaud him for doing so.-COLLAPSE

  • I would have to say modifications slow service down tremendously. All the food comes up, only to find out that someone wanted sauce on side? refire. Now, everyone youre sitting with is having their food sit under a lamp because you're scared of curry ketchup. It happens all the time. When you have the awesome customers who decide to make their own dishes (They want the X salad, but sub bleu...+READ

    I would have to say modifications slow service down tremendously. All the food comes up, only to find out that someone wanted sauce on side? refire. Now, everyone youre sitting with is having their food sit under a lamp because you're scared of curry ketchup. It happens all the time. When you have the awesome customers who decide to make their own dishes (They want the X salad, but sub bleu cheese with cheve and croutons with candied walnuts, no onion, extra tomatoes and ranch dressing,) Preparation damn near stops for a few people as explanations are needed. Order something on the menu, its polite.-COLLAPSE

  • This attitude of substitution-entitlement is ridiculous. A restaurant proposes dishes on a menu. Choose one, or don't, but don't tell them how to make their food.

  • Signore Bortoluzzi was being diplomatic in his explanation about parmigiano and his clam pastas; Italians never, ever put cheese on fish.

  • A year or so ago I went to a restaurant and had partaken of a 3 course menu that they did. When they asked me what I thought I said simply while I could tell the veal dish was perfectly cooked and seasoned, ultimately I had said that I guess I just don't like veal that much. I came back to repeat the experience a few weeks later, I figured they wouldn't be serving the same dish. However they...+READ

    A year or so ago I went to a restaurant and had partaken of a 3 course menu that they did. When they asked me what I thought I said simply while I could tell the veal dish was perfectly cooked and seasoned, ultimately I had said that I guess I just don't like veal that much. I came back to repeat the experience a few weeks later, I figured they wouldn't be serving the same dish. However they were, I figured oh well the way it goes.. should have asked. I chose not to yammer for a substitution. The hostess who had asked me how I felt the last time came over and said that the cook wanted to make me special entree because they knew I didn't like the veal but were glad I'd come to dine with them and participate. I was very flattered and well that next dish, was yummy. Sometimes they make the substitutions without you having to ask.-COLLAPSE

  • If a restaurant refuses a simple substitution, substitute it for another restaurant.

    Unless diners vote with their feet and pocket books, customers will be subject to this type of attitude from chefs.

    Yes, I hear all the reasons. However, when the chef is paying me to eat the food, then s/he can have the final decision. As long as I am paying, take the peanuts off, put the dressing on the...+READ

    If a restaurant refuses a simple substitution, substitute it for another restaurant.

    Unless diners vote with their feet and pocket books, customers will be subject to this type of attitude from chefs.

    Yes, I hear all the reasons. However, when the chef is paying me to eat the food, then s/he can have the final decision. As long as I am paying, take the peanuts off, put the dressing on the side, give me a different cheese.

    It is just food.-COLLAPSE

  • Recently I went to an asian fusion restaurant with a friend. He ordered this Asian-themed steak without any of the Asian spices. He complained constantly about how BORING the steak was. Well, that's what happens when you mess with the restaurants recipe.

  • What Akitist said... and Redfish

  • I don't think a minor subsitution or omission should be a problem. Of course asking for multiple changes seems inappropriate. However, I'm the customer and if a restaurant is so rigid, that they won't leave off a topping, I would just leave and never return. If that's what the restaurant wants, well they will probably be out of business in no time.

    My biggest pet peeve is a chef telling ME...+READ

    I don't think a minor subsitution or omission should be a problem. Of course asking for multiple changes seems inappropriate. However, I'm the customer and if a restaurant is so rigid, that they won't leave off a topping, I would just leave and never return. If that's what the restaurant wants, well they will probably be out of business in no time.

    My biggest pet peeve is a chef telling ME that it will be 'too salty'. I'll decide for MYSELF what's too salty!-COLLAPSE

  • Obviously, not substituting is fine if the restaurant is polite about it. However, I prefer the philosophy of my favorite chef: customers are more important than food. He would make any substitution he could; he would make requested dishes not on the menu if had the ingredients; if a customer came in at 9:01 and service closed at 9:00, that customer got the full meal and could stay as long as...+READ

    Obviously, not substituting is fine if the restaurant is polite about it. However, I prefer the philosophy of my favorite chef: customers are more important than food. He would make any substitution he could; he would make requested dishes not on the menu if had the ingredients; if a customer came in at 9:01 and service closed at 9:00, that customer got the full meal and could stay as long as he/she wanted. Yes, he was a perfectionist when it came to his dishes, but the customers rule so he would bend to their requests. No, customers aren't always right, but they should always get what they want if possible.-COLLAPSE

  • Helena, I don't know where you are in your pregnancy or if the blessed event has already happened but I must say I've been reading you for awhile and your column seems especially well-written today, nice and pithy and tight. Not sure if there is a connection but some people (like moi) insist on looking for these things. Thanks for a good read.

  • In my world -- we make substitutions all of the time. We may not like it, but we realize that that ultimately if we say no, then another restaurant will say yes, and we could lose a customer. Substituting may be in poor taste, and result in an inferior dish, but it's neither illegal or immoral.

  • If I ask for a substitution or change, I always have a back-up menu item in mind.
    I do wish, though, that restaurants would be thoughtful in telling diners what to expect. I'm a vegetarian, and specks of bacon in my green beans or soup do not make me think I'm getting special luxury. They make me think my stomach will ache later.

  • Irresistible force meets immovable object. I insist on micromanaging my burger and the chef insists on giving me his concept of the transcendent burger experience. All for a price that would feed a Sudanese refugee for a week.

    Can we all get over ourselves?

  • I think chefs should get over themselves. They are not all celebrities. Adding ingredients - if someone wants something extra, put it on the side and charge them for it. If they want something removed, remove it. If they complain that their goat cheese burger sans goat cheese was too bland, the rest of us will figure it out.

    Refusing to remove items makes me think that the dishes are all...+READ

    I think chefs should get over themselves. They are not all celebrities. Adding ingredients - if someone wants something extra, put it on the side and charge them for it. If they want something removed, remove it. If they complain that their goat cheese burger sans goat cheese was too bland, the rest of us will figure it out.

    Refusing to remove items makes me think that the dishes are all premade and waiting in some cold casee to be warmed up when a diner orders it.-COLLAPSE

  • Diners have gone a long way to realize that for us to omit an element in a dish is like omitting the dish. A proper chef sees a composed dish (or burger) as a whole. Substitutions are no less than an annoyance. There should not have to be a compromise between diners and the kitchen. If you don't trust that a chef will make a dish that you like, don't go into his/her restaurant. I'm in the south,...+READ

    Diners have gone a long way to realize that for us to omit an element in a dish is like omitting the dish. A proper chef sees a composed dish (or burger) as a whole. Substitutions are no less than an annoyance. There should not have to be a compromise between diners and the kitchen. If you don't trust that a chef will make a dish that you like, don't go into his/her restaurant. I'm in the south, and a lot of people want American cheese on their fish and very well done meat. Rather than give them something that they will later say tasted bad, the only thing to do is say no. A chef is under no obligation, legally or morally, to accomodate anyone at all. You can't mix and match six packs of soda at the grocery store, so why should we be any different. Trust the chef, or don't eat there.-COLLAPSE

  • If you do not want goat cheese on your burger, then do not order the goat cheese burger ... how stupid do you have to be to order the goat cheese burger and then ask them to omit the goat cheese? It's like ordering a meatball sub except without the meatballs ...

  • And what about bars with fancy drinks they make from scratch?

    I was at an über trendy nyc hotel bar -- each drink on their creative and extensive drink menu (that listed no prices) contained citrus in one form or another. Citrus can cause me indigestion, so I try to avoid or limit it when I can. When I requested a certain drink be made without citrus, the bearded-scraggly-uniformed-hipster...+READ

    And what about bars with fancy drinks they make from scratch?

    I was at an über trendy nyc hotel bar -- each drink on their creative and extensive drink menu (that listed no prices) contained citrus in one form or another. Citrus can cause me indigestion, so I try to avoid or limit it when I can. When I requested a certain drink be made without citrus, the bearded-scraggly-uniformed-hipster bartender barked back that he highly "warns against deviating from the drink recipes." I pointed out that I do not want any citrus, and that each drink had citrus listed as an ingredient. He offered to create a cocktail (I requested vodka as a base, he insisted gin) with no citrus. He prepared a well stirred martini made with orange bitters and a twist of lemon! Bill came: $19, including neither tax nor the 20% gratuity this meatpacking hotel adds to bills. I much would have preferred the strawberry-herbal-vodka concoction, but with less infused simple syrup to compensate for the lack of lime juice. Unfortunately for me, that wasn't an option. So now when out of town friends suggest that bar as a meeting place, I'll pass despite the view.-COLLAPSE

  • Its a funny one. I agree and respect what johannessen says....

  • so long as they are polite in their refusal, especially when 'no substitutions' is already on the menu. but there is no harm in asking, also politely, or in explaining an allergy situation - a real allergy. but it is the restaurants final decision and if they are willing to accept that they will/do loose customers because of it, so be it.

  • The only people this is a big deal to are people who love to broadcast their food aversions, allergies, dislikes, etc. I don't walk into a vegetarian restaurant and demand the garden burger be made with ground beef. Why would you purposely choose to dine at a restaurant that has a no substitutions policy and is serving food you don't like?

    The reason why most chefs don't want to do this is...+READ

    The only people this is a big deal to are people who love to broadcast their food aversions, allergies, dislikes, etc. I don't walk into a vegetarian restaurant and demand the garden burger be made with ground beef. Why would you purposely choose to dine at a restaurant that has a no substitutions policy and is serving food you don't like?

    The reason why most chefs don't want to do this is beacuse of consistancy. If I made some fancy burger with say a parmesan tuille, wild mushroom and bacon compote, and fig ketchup then you come in and say you don't like mushrooms and want me to add mustard on it, your experience will be different. Later, when you compare the burger with another customer, you might say "I really did not care for it. It was too tart for me," when it was entirely your fault.-COLLAPSE

  • I can't imagine a restaurant not accommodating my gluten allergy. But this article does drive home a point, when in doubt call ahead of time, or ask up front when you arrive. I think restaurants do have the right to run their business however they see fit, and if they are not willing to accommodate me or others then it is their loss, not mine! There are plenty out there that will!

  • I get the really ritzy-type restaurants doing this but... a burger place? Even if it's a gourmet burger place, that seems a little excessive. I understand that changing a dish changes its flavor profile (in fact, I sort of feel like if you don't know that, you probably shouldn't be allowed to blog or tweet or whatever about food...), but couldn't places just have something on the menu that says...+READ

    I get the really ritzy-type restaurants doing this but... a burger place? Even if it's a gourmet burger place, that seems a little excessive. I understand that changing a dish changes its flavor profile (in fact, I sort of feel like if you don't know that, you probably shouldn't be allowed to blog or tweet or whatever about food...), but couldn't places just have something on the menu that says something to that effect instead of, oh, I dunno, refusing to omit a nut garnish? "Substitutions will change the flavor of the resulting dish. The resulting dish will not adhere to the chef's original intentions, and may make it somewhat less flavorful or appetizing."

    I also understand the "eat something else/ go somewhere else" thing (as someone who does not eat meat other than chicken, turkey and ocean things, I would not go to a steak house of my own volition, and if someone wanted me to come with them to a steak house, I would find something even if it was just salad and be polite about it), but sometimes large groups have to eat together and it becomes difficult to decide on where to eat. My boyfriend's family, for example: two parents, six kids, three of those kids' significant others (plus me, I suppose, so four), and two grandkids. One of his sisters is a vegan, one of other his sisters' husbands basically only eats meat, one of the grandkids is occasionally a picky eater, and the other one is a baby. My boyfriend, for his part, is allergic to peanuts, treenuts, shellfish, milk and eggs (although he can find something to eat almost anywhere... maybe not, say, Joe's Crab Shack, but mostly everywhere. He just likes food.) Even so, you can probably imagine how many hoops they have to jump through to find a restaurant everyone will eat at, and I'm sure there are other large or multi-generational families out there who have similar problems finding good food. So basically, I really hope that this no-substitutions thing remains confined to the upper-upper-echelons of dining and snobby burger joints, particularly considering the amount of restaurants which are only just starting to become allergy-friendly.-COLLAPSE