Spicy Roasted Chickpeas
Picnic Recipes Galore
Corner-Store Party Food on the Fly
9 Chili Recipes, Bison to Vegan
How to Choose the Best Strawberries
Sausage Recipes of the Month
There's no reader question this week. Instead, Helena wants to address a question raised on Chowhound.
I'm all in favor of thrift in the kitchen—saving your old Parmesan rinds to enrich soups, for example, or repurposing yesterday's stodgy cold risotto as today's arancini di riso. But where is the line between leftovers and garbage? Or, as a fascinating thread on Chowhound asks: Is it OK to scavenge the bones from your guests' plates in order to make chicken stock?
Despite what some Chowhounds claim, this practice is not hazardous. Saliva is laden with germs, but unless you are making out with the person in question, you are unlikely to pick up their germs. In an email, Dr. Byron Brehm-Stecher, assistant professor of food science at Iowa State University, explains: "[M]any of these [saliva-borne germs] can't stand atmospheric concentrations of oxygen, let alone extended boiling. Further, unless the chicken-eaters are drooling, the amount of saliva deposited on the bones will not be much and it will also be diluted (in addition to being boiled) when water is added to make the stock."
But although it's "safe" to make scavenged-bone stock, that doesn't mean it's OK. It's probably safe to eat other people's boogers too, if they've been boiled. Sorry to gross you out, but my point is this: Once someone has rejected a food, eating it becomes taboo. You can't use that item to make a meal for someone else. This might not make scientific sense, but taboos don't have to. Yes, it's wrong to waste food, but you should only recycle other people's leftovers if you're starving. Otherwise, there's no need to act like a Depression-era farm wife struggling to feed your family on a couple of moldy turnips.
If you insist on recycling items from people's plates, you could traumatize your guests for life. Julia Scheeres, author of the memoir Jesus Land, recalls that her mother took not only bones from people's plates, but also whatever else they hadn't eaten. She saved the scrapings in a container in the freezer and regularly boiled them all up with some hamburger meat—a concoction she rightly called Garbage Soup. Scheeres believes this experience permanently impaired her ability to enjoy food.
In any case, cooked bones don't even make very good stock, explains Samin Nosrat, a professional cook, writer, and teacher in Berkeley, California. By contrast, "raw bones still have the marrow and gelatin, which has not been cooked out of them." She advises the home cook to do the same as restaurant kitchens: Buy the whole chicken; then you can use the head and feet in the stock—"They add body and substance and structure." (Chowhounds agree.) If you want to use the bones as well, remove the meat and cook it separately.
Personally, I recommend serving the meat on the bone, even if it means you'll have to do without those bones in your stock. As I've said before, eating food with your fingers is a wonderful communal bonding experience. One of the greatest dinner parties I ever attended involved Dungeness crabs served without plates or silverware. Those discarded crab shells and legs with shreds of meat still clinging to them could have made a great stock, but it would have really spoiled the atmosphere if the hostess had carefully collected them up to make Garbage Bisque.
I'm with Rockfish42. I won't scrape someone's plate for leftovers, but I have zero problem with using leftover bones for stock. That said, I don't collect the bones at the table in front of my guests, I do it in the kitchen after everyone is done eating (or while I'm making dessert).
I agree that throwing left over bones/carcasses into a pot of waer and boiling does not make a decent stock..BUT...take that same carcass and put it in a slow oven for two or three hours, along with carrot, onion (skins included) the base of a stalk of celery, perhaps a couple of garlic cloves also unpeeled, peppercorns and whatever other odds and ends you can find. Roast until things look as if...+READ
I agree that throwing left over bones/carcasses into a pot of waer and boiling does not make a decent stock..BUT...take that same carcass and put it in a slow oven for two or three hours, along with carrot, onion (skins included) the base of a stalk of celery, perhaps a couple of garlic cloves also unpeeled, peppercorns and whatever other odds and ends you can find. Roast until things look as if they are close to being dessicated then put them in a stockpot...cover with water and simmer very slowly..never letting them boil, for another few hours..and you will have an incredibly rich, flavorful deep brown stock that will be soup perfection. Strain through a sieve and again through cheesecloth, to clarify then season to taste and refrigerate or freeze until needed.-COLLAPSE
yikes. roasted chicken bones, drippings & skin do indeed make excellent stock, full of gelatin, and restaurants use roasted carcasses all the time to make rich stock with a deep and complex roasted meat flavor. who's this berkeley hack, please don't let her anywhere near a rabbit or a duck or a pheasant-- those babies are going in the oven, we're making real food here, not clear flavorless...+READ
yikes. roasted chicken bones, drippings & skin do indeed make excellent stock, full of gelatin, and restaurants use roasted carcasses all the time to make rich stock with a deep and complex roasted meat flavor. who's this berkeley hack, please don't let her anywhere near a rabbit or a duck or a pheasant-- those babies are going in the oven, we're making real food here, not clear flavorless lily-white napping-sauces made of poach-broth.
oh, the point of the article? eh. the thanksgiving turkey carcass left on the platter is certainly fair game. Use it for goodness sake-- you'll need it for next year's gravy, if nothing else! plate scrapings? not so much. . . though there is some leeway with crab/lobster shells and very precious things that would make a truly excellent stock, imo.-COLLAPSE
No, I'm a super-thrifty Depression baby, but it never occurred to me to scavenge off plates. I disagree, though, that cooked chicken doesn't make good broth. I save every scrap of bone/gristle/backs/wing tips/skin from my deli rotisserie chickens, and along with the gelatinous drippings in the bottom of of the handy plastic container this makes ~6 cups of the best-tasting broth I ever make. The...+READ
No, I'm a super-thrifty Depression baby, but it never occurred to me to scavenge off plates. I disagree, though, that cooked chicken doesn't make good broth. I save every scrap of bone/gristle/backs/wing tips/skin from my deli rotisserie chickens, and along with the gelatinous drippings in the bottom of of the handy plastic container this makes ~6 cups of the best-tasting broth I ever make. The roasted skin gives it the loveliest color & flavor.-COLLAPSE
Using another person's leftovers from their plate has never entered my mind. I am not germaphobic. I just find it plain gross.
I will go out of my way to use left-overs from meals but I would not use anything from a guests' plate for any reason other than dog scrapes.
I agree with rockfish.
I think it's wrong to sneer at people who don't want to waste anything. Personally I prefer stock made from uncooked bones although it's possible to make an edible stock from cooked bones. I find cooked bones impart more of an essence of flavor than a full-bodied taste. I think there's a way to use the whole piece of meat or foul without using people's half-eaten leftovers. For example, when I...+READ
I think it's wrong to sneer at people who don't want to waste anything. Personally I prefer stock made from uncooked bones although it's possible to make an edible stock from cooked bones. I find cooked bones impart more of an essence of flavor than a full-bodied taste. I think there's a way to use the whole piece of meat or foul without using people's half-eaten leftovers. For example, when I make chicken soup, I pull out the breasts when they are just finished cooking (i.e. become opaque), cut off the meat and throw the bones back in the soup. Then I use the juicy tender breast meat for salads and sandwiches. If you leave breast meat in the soup pot, it turns into dry flavorless yuckiness.-COLLAPSE
I really am surprised by how many people here would think it ok to serve something made from these to guests?
Would it also be fine if I scraped someones plate of uneaten rice to make fried rice the next day for guests?
Not challenging taboos is stupid and even more so if it is your "reason" for something.
There's nothing wrong with collecting bones and god, crab shells? I wouldn't feel right wasting something so special. It's not about depression era habits, it is about appreciating food. The bones and shells hold so much flavour, why be scared to enjoy them. If you are worried about guests reacting like...+READ
Not challenging taboos is stupid and even more so if it is your "reason" for something.
There's nothing wrong with collecting bones and god, crab shells? I wouldn't feel right wasting something so special. It's not about depression era habits, it is about appreciating food. The bones and shells hold so much flavour, why be scared to enjoy them. If you are worried about guests reacting like Helena, just don't tell them.
Using leftover chicken bones in your stock is far less gross than the way we rear and slaughter poultry. I think we should probably baulk at that instead.-COLLAPSE
"By contrast, "raw bones still have the marrow and gelatin, which has not been cooked out of them."
Hmmmnnn, I routinely make truly excellent chicken stock for my risotti from the carcasses of roasted chicken. I toss them in the freezer and then simmer two carcasses all day long (10-12 hours) as I have the luxury of working from home. My stocks are always sufficiently gelatinous.
So that...+READ
"By contrast, "raw bones still have the marrow and gelatin, which has not been cooked out of them."
Hmmmnnn, I routinely make truly excellent chicken stock for my risotti from the carcasses of roasted chicken. I toss them in the freezer and then simmer two carcasses all day long (10-12 hours) as I have the luxury of working from home. My stocks are always sufficiently gelatinous.
So that comment is pure nonsense to me.-COLLAPSE
Not use those bones for stock? that's absurd! They won't make much of a soup by themselves, but they will make a little broth to use instead of water to enrich a soup or sauce. This kind of scavenging is the essence of serious frugal everyday cooking. What a silly, pretentious idea, not to use them.
I think if you save them for a stock only you will be consuming, then there really isn't a problem.
But I don't think you should use it to cook anything for someone else.
What if you scavenge the bones later, in private, when no one is looking? That way you don't traumatize anyone or gross anyone out. For those who have the wherewithal to make stock from scratch, it's wasteful and expensive to buy more meat (or fish/shellfish/whatever) from scratch...
Also, it's untrue that you can't make great stock from cooked bones: My mom makes one of the best poultry...+READ
What if you scavenge the bones later, in private, when no one is looking? That way you don't traumatize anyone or gross anyone out. For those who have the wherewithal to make stock from scratch, it's wasteful and expensive to buy more meat (or fish/shellfish/whatever) from scratch...
Also, it's untrue that you can't make great stock from cooked bones: My mom makes one of the best poultry stocks on the PLANET from leftover bones. I will put her turkey-barley soup--which she finishes with a drizzle of Tuscan olive oil--against anyone's turkey soup, anywhere.-COLLAPSE
You never heard of dumpster soup?
No scavenged food? You mean if DH doesn't eat all his veal piccata I can't have it? Booooooo! Tell that to a mom with a small child re PB sandwiches. C'mon, either lighten up or re-edit the work if that really isn't what you meant.
Roasted bone stock has about as much flavor as stock made from boneless, skinless breasts. My mom used to make turkey stock from the leftover bird and bones. Nasty, bland stuff. We all preferred my grandmother's full-bodied soups made from whole chicken legs and thighs.
ha ha ha. I have been tempted to do this, but held back. Now I am glad I did. I will cop to stealing the end bones from roasts my mother in law serves on holidays...but the meat has been carved off the bone so it seems less gross. My mother in law is used to me trying to scavenge bones from her kitchen like a common ogre.
Suck it up and use those bones for stock, damn shrinking violets.