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I have a trip planned to France with my husband, during which I'll be five and a half months pregnant. We'd like to enjoy wine on our trip, but obviously I can't drink very much (usually one glass every couple of days is my rule). I'm not asking for advice on whether or not I should be drinking during pregnancy, but rather: What are the customs around drinking wine in French restaurants? If we order a bottle and don't finish it, will French people look down on us for taking the leftover wine "to go"? Do French people freak out over visibly pregnant women drinking even one glass, the way many Americans do? Are there very many places in France that offer wines by the glass, or is it mostly bottles?
—Babymoon Boîte
Dear Babymoon Boîte,
In America, total strangers often accost pregnant women if they see you with a drink in hand. They may even criticize you if you order a latte, as I discovered recently. The barista looked pointedly at my pregnant stomach and asked, "Wouldn't you prefer a decaf?"
But in France, for the most part, no one will bat an eyelid if they see you sipping vin—let alone treat you to a lecture on le syndrome de l'alcoolisation foetale. That's partly because the French are more reserved about approaching strangers, says Elizabeth Bard, author of Lunch in Paris: A Love Story, with Recipes. "I can't imagine from a politesse point of view that a person you do not know would question your eating or drinking habits." But that's mainly because it's fairly common there for expectant moms to enjoy a glass of wine. According to a 2008 study, over half of French women said they had had at least one drink during their pregnancies (whereas in the U.S., only 12 percent admitted to having done so).
But French moms-to-be aren't exactly knocking back tequila shots. They typically enjoy their Merlot in moderation, and with food. As Bard points out: "The French almost never drink just to drink … wine is very much part of the food ritual." And French wines are sometimes more pregnancy-friendly than American ones, because some are lower in alcohol.
You need not commit to a whole bottle. Restaurants always have at least some wines available by the glass, though some will have more than others. In fact, wines offered by the glass—or carafe, or half bottle—are increasingly common, says Martine Saunier, owner of Martine's Wines, a company that imports French wines to the U.S. This is because the government has cracked down on drunk driving. "[Nowadays,] on a country road you can have roadblocks, especially over the weekend. They make a sign and you have to stop. It's really had an impact on the consumption of wine." So pregnant women aren't the only ones who don't want to polish off a whole bottle.
There's certainly no French etiquette rule that says you have to finish a bottle. But don't even think of trying to take it home with you. Yes, in some states in the U.S., it's perfectly acceptable to stash a half-full bottle in your purse or trunk. But, says Saunier, "in France, no civilized people would do this." And let me remind you that asking to take your leftover coq au vin or boeuf bourguignon is also a faux pas. "In France we don't have doggy bags," sniffs Saunier. "It is not our custom."
Elysabeth, you should read the study I posted. There are both short and longterm studies that say light-moderate alcohol intake is fine.
No advice
Lest you conclude that the French are totally hands-off with pregnant women, they will interfere, just with different priorities - When I ordered liver in Paris while visibly pregnant, the waitress firmly insisted that "one does not eat "les abats (organ meats)" during pregnancy. And in fact, she was right - too much Vitamin A, as I understand.
@ptipois where and which restaurants in france offer doggy bags? i've been living here for more than a year now and have never seen that. i'm intrigued.
The woman writing clearly said she didn't want advice on whether she should drink or not. And yet, everyone's lives and experience are so important, they just HAVE to share. Keep it to the question people.
Not true about the doggy bags though. They will provide them mostly at any restaurant where the portions are generous. I have never seen a restaurant waiter refuse to give one anywhere in France.
[[There's certainly no French etiquette rule that says you have to finish a bottle. But don't even think of trying to take it home with you. Yes, in some states in the U.S., it's perfectly acceptable to stash a half-full bottle in your purse or trunk. But, says Saunier, "in France, no civilized people would do this." ]]
Utter bull-***. In an admirable attempt to reduce drunk driving in France,...+READ
[[There's certainly no French etiquette rule that says you have to finish a bottle. But don't even think of trying to take it home with you. Yes, in some states in the U.S., it's perfectly acceptable to stash a half-full bottle in your purse or trunk. But, says Saunier, "in France, no civilized people would do this." ]]
Utter bull-***. In an admirable attempt to reduce drunk driving in France, almost every restaurant offers a small plastic cap to seal any bottle of wine you have purchased so that you may take it home with you and not feel obligated to drink it all at the restaurant (and subsequently drive home hammered). Doggie-bags are largely a no-go, but you may absolutely take your unfinished wine with you.-COLLAPSE
Now that more women are embracing breastfeeding, this an issue that can extend even a few years beyond pregnancy, particularly for women haveing more than one child. In Britian they call Guiness, a low alcohol content beer, "mother's milk." A George Mason University article that looked at multiple studies, had this to say: "As far as we know, drinking lightly during pregnancy does not have...+READ
Now that more women are embracing breastfeeding, this an issue that can extend even a few years beyond pregnancy, particularly for women haveing more than one child. In Britian they call Guiness, a low alcohol content beer, "mother's milk." A George Mason University article that looked at multiple studies, had this to say: "As far as we know, drinking lightly during pregnancy does not have adverse consequences. The systematic studies and meta-analyses we looked at suggest that drinking fewer than three small drinks per week is a safe level of consumption for pregnant women. This result seems robust in that the literature reviews considered hundreds of articles."
http://stats.org/stories/2007/what_risks_light_alco_preg_dec12_07.htm
(Of course the studies do show a link between binge drinking and regular heavy drinking and fetal injury.) French sociologist Clotaire Rapaille claims that Americans equate alcohol with danger. (See The Culture Code.) The American perspective on drinking mothers seems to be rooted in our broader cultural biases about alcohol.-COLLAPSE
As a french person, friend of a french pregnant woman, I can just confirm almost everything stated by Miss Echlin:
We care about the health of the people we know. We'd never think about going and giving advice about someone's way of life. Their life, their choices. Once again, that's different with friends or people we know.
My friend suffers a lot from not being advised to drink wine (and...+READ
As a french person, friend of a french pregnant woman, I can just confirm almost everything stated by Miss Echlin:
We care about the health of the people we know. We'd never think about going and giving advice about someone's way of life. Their life, their choices. Once again, that's different with friends or people we know.
My friend suffers a lot from not being advised to drink wine (and alcohol in general) and to eat cheese. "Risky" they say. So it is. But a sip of wine, even potentially dangerous is acceptable, accepted. And, of course, when you're pregnant, you don't really think about bing drinking... We'd rather appreciate a bottle, or a glass of good wine.
You won't have any difficulties finding by the glass wines. But, it's not just because of roadblocks!... People are getting wiser, probably.
And, of course, please : no doggy bag or any other form of doggy bottle. Please, that will be accepted (your life, your choices). But, you will be...hum. Noticed, for sure...-COLLAPSE
I just got back from France, where I visited my very dear and very pregnant friend (she is due in December). She drank much less than the rest of us, but she had a small glass (few sips really) of everything we had. Believe me, you will be fine as far as other diners and their potential concern for your drinking.
Can't help you with etiquette of packing unfinished bottle of wine "to go" - never...+READ
I just got back from France, where I visited my very dear and very pregnant friend (she is due in December). She drank much less than the rest of us, but she had a small glass (few sips really) of everything we had. Believe me, you will be fine as far as other diners and their potential concern for your drinking.
Can't help you with etiquette of packing unfinished bottle of wine "to go" - never happened to me ;-) It is better to just leave in on the table or, as someone already mentioned, share it with some diners next table. Another way to deal with it, is to order for the both of you a demi pichet (a small glass or clay container cantaining about 2 glasses of wine). Next size up is a pichet, which holds about 2/3 of a bottle. It will somewhat limit your choices, but you can order a pichet or demi of any wine that is also offered by a glass. Probably won't work in ***Michelin establishments, but there are usually ample choices of fine wines in 1/2 bottles, so one way or the other you can have exactly what you want in smaller quantities.
Enjoy your trip to France and your glass of wine with some awesome food.-COLLAPSE
I have spent 14 yrs raising a child with full FAS and mild to moderate MR. I got her as a foster infant, so I'm not feeling guilty or justifying anything. Many of the kids dx'ed ADHD, behavior issues or high functioning autism, may have been exposed to alcohol prenatally. Please don't drink if you are planning to conceive, if you have please stop for the duration and take Folic Acid & Choline....+READ
I have spent 14 yrs raising a child with full FAS and mild to moderate MR. I got her as a foster infant, so I'm not feeling guilty or justifying anything. Many of the kids dx'ed ADHD, behavior issues or high functioning autism, may have been exposed to alcohol prenatally. Please don't drink if you are planning to conceive, if you have please stop for the duration and take Folic Acid & Choline. From National Organization of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome...
"There has been a recent surge in media coverage and blogosphere chatter regarding light and moderate alcohol consumption during pregnancy, generated in part by recent studies in the United Kingdom and Australia. It appears as if the majority of coverage declares that some amounts, frequency and patterns of prenatal alcohol consumption are without risk. NOFAS is deeply concerned with this conclusion, unhappy with the irresponsible coverage and eager to set the record straight.
The central question in the debate appears to be, “what is the appropriate recommendation for women of child-bearing age?” As reluctant as many people and members of the media are to follow it, the thoroughly considered, scientifically-grounded answer disseminated 29 years ago and affirmed three times since by the United States Surgeon General is that women are advised to abstain from alcohol during pregnancy, or when considering a pregnancy, due to the risk of birth defects. The science inarguably tells us alcohol is a teratogen, a neurotoxin like lead or mercury to a developing embryo or fetus. Thankfully, every child exposed to alcohol doesn't appear to have identifiable birth defects just like every child that eats lead paint from a window sill doesn't develop lead poisoning. Is that a sound reason to advise that light or moderate lead consumption by your child is safe, or to ignore the prenatal alcohol exposure risk? NOFAS doesn't think so.
NOFAS is currently developing a media outreach strategy to educate traditional and social media about the many facets of alcohol and pregnancy and Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders and to respond to both inaccurate and accurate representations of these issues."
Thanks for reading.-COLLAPSE
drink as much as you want--your kid, your problem:)
The fact you're coming to France should not predicate whether or not you have a glass of wine. Drinking in moderation while pregnant does not harm the fetus. Women drink wine here when pregnant and so be it. And you can either order a half bottle or a compteur .. or leave the extra wine. No one cares. And if we're sitting at adjoining tables, I do hope you'll offer it to me. It shouldn't go to...+READ
The fact you're coming to France should not predicate whether or not you have a glass of wine. Drinking in moderation while pregnant does not harm the fetus. Women drink wine here when pregnant and so be it. And you can either order a half bottle or a compteur .. or leave the extra wine. No one cares. And if we're sitting at adjoining tables, I do hope you'll offer it to me. It shouldn't go to waste!
http://www.bonjourparis.com-COLLAPSE
Please don't confuse that whackadoodle "inverdetheresverde" with me!!! ;)
Studies are changing their stance on light drinking while pregnant: I got this email this week from The Wine Spectator. (who of course, has no skin in this game )
Light Drinking While Pregnant Does Not Impair Childhood Development, Says New Study
Children born to mothers who drank light amounts of alcohol while pregnant show no signs of behavioral or intellectual impairment in the first five...+READ
Studies are changing their stance on light drinking while pregnant: I got this email this week from The Wine Spectator. (who of course, has no skin in this game )
Light Drinking While Pregnant Does Not Impair Childhood Development, Says New Study
Children born to mothers who drank light amounts of alcohol while pregnant show no signs of behavioral or intellectual impairment in the first five years of life, according to a new study published in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health. In fact, when compared to children whose mothers didn't drink while pregnant, the children of light drinkers appear more developmentally advanced.
http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/43735-COLLAPSE
Once you are pregnant you have NO rights, OK? All other persons in society can and are morally compelled to comment on your appearance, habits, what you should wear, what you may eat, drink, and when you should stand or sit. And after your baby is born their responsibilities continue. Social policing of your fitness to be a mother will be in effect until your child is 18 or moves out of the...+READ
Once you are pregnant you have NO rights, OK? All other persons in society can and are morally compelled to comment on your appearance, habits, what you should wear, what you may eat, drink, and when you should stand or sit. And after your baby is born their responsibilities continue. Social policing of your fitness to be a mother will be in effect until your child is 18 or moves out of the house, whichever comes later. Of course all morality ends at the U.S. border, so what happens in France stays in France. Congratulations, and enjoy your trip.-COLLAPSE
Injecting yourself with "a little bit" of heroin a couple of times over the course of a pregnancy probably wouldn't result in any noticeable harm to the fetus either, as long as you don't share needles. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, obviously.
The effects of alcohol abuse in pregnancy are well known as FASD. There is no scientific consensus on the short or long term effects of light...+READ
Injecting yourself with "a little bit" of heroin a couple of times over the course of a pregnancy probably wouldn't result in any noticeable harm to the fetus either, as long as you don't share needles. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, obviously.
The effects of alcohol abuse in pregnancy are well known as FASD. There is no scientific consensus on the short or long term effects of light alcohol consumption but given that it is a well known teratogen, it's probably best for the baby to just abstain from drinking.
It's only 40 weeks, it's inconvenient but it's not forever. If you don't think you can bear 40 weeks of sobriety, you might want to think about whether you have some dependence issues. There are many excellent ways to cope with stress that don't involve substance use and are safe for anyone, unborn children included.-COLLAPSE
oh, lord. all you pearl-clutchers need to sit down, have a glass of wine or two, and relax. she's an adult. it's her body. she's thought this through. it's FRANCE. let her enjoy a bit of France's finest!
Don't drink in ANY country. Read "As You Eat, So Your Baby Grows." $2.50 on amazon
I am a mother of an adopted little girl who has fetal alcohol syndrome..brain damage...because her mother drank alcohol. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk to consume ANY amount of alcohol. The statistics show that there are more children suffering from effects of alcohol than autism. Many of these affects go unnoticed because these children are often dismissed as being bad children. Frankly,...+READ
I am a mother of an adopted little girl who has fetal alcohol syndrome..brain damage...because her mother drank alcohol. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk to consume ANY amount of alcohol. The statistics show that there are more children suffering from effects of alcohol than autism. Many of these affects go unnoticed because these children are often dismissed as being bad children. Frankly, it OFFENDS me to see any woman disregard human life so much for a selfish indulgence.That she can not wait 9 months is appalling to me. Her "womb" enjoyed a buzz for a short time, my daughter gets to pay the price for a lifetime!-COLLAPSE
Although I acknowledge that my lack of sources is irritating and slightly irresponsible, I am not going to spend the time looking it up for you. The professors that taught on this in medical school several years ago had profound expertise in their areas of thought, and perhaps I should have questioned them more, but I think that their resources were fairly substantial. In my position, I would...+READ
Although I acknowledge that my lack of sources is irritating and slightly irresponsible, I am not going to spend the time looking it up for you. The professors that taught on this in medical school several years ago had profound expertise in their areas of thought, and perhaps I should have questioned them more, but I think that their resources were fairly substantial. In my position, I would receive more blame for not warning someone of potential harm or of giving a false impression of a lack of harm to appease patients, only to have it come to a less favorable end. I am not trying to end discussion by saying I am a physician, I am merely saying that that was the source for my points. Also, I am pointing out the proven cellular harms. To my knowledge, no study has correlated smaller alcohol consumption directly to intelligence or health status because that would be statistically impossible and there would be extensive confounders (intelligence is truly a complex trait, influenced substantially by postnatal environment as well). I can only speak to the known cellular effects.
Although we are all exposed to many toxins in todays environment (bisphenol A anyone?), that does not prelude the fact that we should attempt to prevent the exposure of unborn babies to the toxins we can identify.
In response to your comment about stress, it is indeed bad for a growing baby because heightened cortisol levels in the mother's body also cross the placenta and can push the baby toward a metabolically unfavorable hormonal state (perhaps leading to future obesity, although that is not entirely proven). However, again, let us not replace one toxin with another; why not deal with stress in another way. I thoroughly understand stress, but methods like meditation/prayer, walking, talking with your significantly other or a friend, and watching a funny sitcom (love Modern Family!) can help...-COLLAPSE
@inverdethereisverde:
Saying "I am a physician" as though it ends the argument isn't much better than somebody saying "I am a political scientist" when advancing a political point-of-view. It's still your opinion, no matter how educated it may be. Unless you did the research yourself you'll need to cite some sources for your assertions. And the "scientific understanding" I have seen is mixed on...+READ
@inverdethereisverde:
Saying "I am a physician" as though it ends the argument isn't much better than somebody saying "I am a political scientist" when advancing a political point-of-view. It's still your opinion, no matter how educated it may be. Unless you did the research yourself you'll need to cite some sources for your assertions. And the "scientific understanding" I have seen is mixed on this issue. But as a matter of critical thinking, potential harm is not the same as actual demonstrable harm. There are a great number of toxins we are all exposed to on a daily basis and we aren't going to get away from all of them. Besides, I'd wager that the stress that a glass of wine might relieve for somebody might be more harmful to the fetus than the alcohol.-COLLAPSE
It's not my world view; I am a physician. What I presented is the scientific understanding of how alcohol acts in the body.
Wow, invinothereisverde, there's a perfect example of someone with an underlying agenda. Instead of admitting that in the vast majority of cases there are no harmful effects from moderate amounts of alcohol, you claim that even people who show no effects must have completely invisible, unmeasurable effects -- apparently just because to believe otherwise would contradict your worldview. And of...+READ
Wow, invinothereisverde, there's a perfect example of someone with an underlying agenda. Instead of admitting that in the vast majority of cases there are no harmful effects from moderate amounts of alcohol, you claim that even people who show no effects must have completely invisible, unmeasurable effects -- apparently just because to believe otherwise would contradict your worldview. And of course, everyone who disagrees with your extreme, unproven position is an unfit parent. I feel sorry for your children, who obviously perfectly healthy because you are a perfect mother, but are undoubtedly miserable and likely psychologically scarred by your judgmental, rigid attitudes.-COLLAPSE
There is no safe amount of alcohol to drink when pregnant. The amount of alcohol your adult sized body can metabolize without the toxin crossing your blood brain barrier and infiltrating your cells is minuscule (we consume grams of alcohol, while the enzymes that break alcohol down in your body function with a maximum activity at a level 100s of times smaller. Alcohol is a known toxin that is...+READ
There is no safe amount of alcohol to drink when pregnant. The amount of alcohol your adult sized body can metabolize without the toxin crossing your blood brain barrier and infiltrating your cells is minuscule (we consume grams of alcohol, while the enzymes that break alcohol down in your body function with a maximum activity at a level 100s of times smaller. Alcohol is a known toxin that is highly lipid soluble, meaning it can pass through cell membranes very well and through the placenta. While your brain can afford to lose some neuronal connections and suffer oxidative and carcinogenic changes, the body of your fetus with its even smaller ability to degrade alcohol, cannot. Although you may not see the obvious FAS facial changes or clinical mental retardation, you cannot say what the intellect or health status of your baby would have been without your consumption. Again, there is no safe time or safe amount of alcohol to consume while pregnant. In my belief, everyone should hold themselves accountable to this high standard for the sake of their own child, or refrain from choosing to begin/continue a family if they are unable to refrain.-COLLAPSE
I have to say the only that bothers me about this whole story is the use of the word "sniffs." C'mon, Helena, did she really sniff, or is that just how we Americans interpret the French as condescending every chance we get?
It' slightly off the OP's topic, but as a first-time pregnant woman, I'd like to see Dophi's evidence that "one drink can cause FAS". My doctor has said the exact same thing...is ludicrous. She said to drink in moderation, if I choose. Or abstain.
New evidence is showing that drinking moderate amounts of alcohol while pregnant may actually be a good thing for your child:
...+READ
It' slightly off the OP's topic, but as a first-time pregnant woman, I'd like to see Dophi's evidence that "one drink can cause FAS". My doctor has said the exact same thing...is ludicrous. She said to drink in moderation, if I choose. Or abstain.
New evidence is showing that drinking moderate amounts of alcohol while pregnant may actually be a good thing for your child:
http://www.aolhealth.com/2010/10/07/light-drinking-ok-for-pregnant-women-large-study-finds/
Also, just because you're completely wrong about the French and Merlot, and I find it annoying: Chateau Petrus is the most expensive, sought after wine from France. It is nearly all Merlot (as is the majority of Right Bank wine). It sells for thousands of dollars a bottle.-COLLAPSE
Can't imagine going through a pregnancy without a drink, or several, especially for the husband.
Ruth, I wish this forum had a "like" button. Kudos!
Congratulations, Helena! (And to the letter writer too!)
sfeidelson I think it's very sad that you are blaming yourself for your child's special needs issues. Things happen that are out of our control, and I think it's extremely harmful for pregnant women that they are made to feel that if they do everything perfectly, they will have a perfect child, and if they don't have a perfect child, it must be because they didn't do everything perfectly. I...+READ
sfeidelson I think it's very sad that you are blaming yourself for your child's special needs issues. Things happen that are out of our control, and I think it's extremely harmful for pregnant women that they are made to feel that if they do everything perfectly, they will have a perfect child, and if they don't have a perfect child, it must be because they didn't do everything perfectly. I personally think it's ridiculous to look at a problem teenager and say, oh, it's because his mom had a glass of wine when she was pregnant. There is simply no way of proving that, and anyone who claims there is is promoting their own underlying agenda.-COLLAPSE
I once had occasion to use a home pregnancy test when I was living in France. Its advice was very clear. "If the test is positive, stop smoking IMMEDIATELY and reduce alcohol consumption to one glass of wine per day."
As someone who works with kids with fetal alcohol traits and full blown fetal alcohol syndrome, I'm surprised that this woman is drinking a glass of wine every few days. It takes surprisingly little amounts of alcohol to cause problems. It's really an unfortunate choice, and shows a lack of education and is very shortsighted and selfish.
As a mother with a special needs child, I wish I hadn't done ANYTHING during pregnancy that was a little "iffy." The glass of wine, tunafish..Err on the side of caution.
I was offered wine in French restaurants throughout my (very visible!) pregnancy. Most places offer wine by the glass and many offer tasting-sized portions. One big caution for pregnant women in France is the prevalance of toxoplasmosis. This is the disease associated with litter boxes in the States. There's a much higher concentration of it in Frenh soil, so you're supposed to avoid salads and...+READ
I was offered wine in French restaurants throughout my (very visible!) pregnancy. Most places offer wine by the glass and many offer tasting-sized portions. One big caution for pregnant women in France is the prevalance of toxoplasmosis. This is the disease associated with litter boxes in the States. There's a much higher concentration of it in Frenh soil, so you're supposed to avoid salads and things with fresh herbs and greens. Research it a bit because it is quite serious and worth being tested for if you think you may have been exposed.-COLLAPSE
Fetal Alcohol Effect often isn't noticable until a child in his/her teens. Life isn't so short you cannot abstain for a few months, unless there is an underlying issue. These diseases are usually not diagnosed correctly as symptoms include mental retardation and ADHD type symptoms.
While doggy bags for *food* aren't really done, you absolutely, positively, can ask them to recork the unfinished bottle so you can take it home with you.
With the DUI laws in France, nobody wants to take a chance (it's .05 in France, versus .08 in the US, and the police *can* take your vehicle on the spot, even if it's a first offense.)
It's actually fairly common to see a couple leaving a...+READ
While doggy bags for *food* aren't really done, you absolutely, positively, can ask them to recork the unfinished bottle so you can take it home with you.
With the DUI laws in France, nobody wants to take a chance (it's .05 in France, versus .08 in the US, and the police *can* take your vehicle on the spot, even if it's a first offense.)
It's actually fairly common to see a couple leaving a resto with a partial bottle of wine.
As in the States, it has to go in the trunk, out of reach of the passenger compartment.
And by the way -- the incidence of foodborne illnesses in France is several times lower than it is in the US...don't do something stupid, but don't be afraid to travel.
I traveled internationally for business until I was just shy of 6 months -- I stopped not because of doctor's orders, but because I was just getting too big to comfortably navigate *anything* -- turnstiles, cabs, trains, airplanes, and ate pretty much anything I felt like.
I now have a worldly kid who's a great traveler and is comfortable on a couple of continents.-COLLAPSE
When I was in Paris I saw a very pregnant young lady walking down the street smoking a cigarette. So taking wine home should not raise an eyebrow.
redchief, in response to "In terms of international travel and pregnancy, she may wish to be more vigilant about undercooked foods (popular in France)"
I say why not if you research before hand the cleanliness of the food/milk and the diet of the animal? Of course I mean free range grass fed cows, not cows from farms meant for pasteurization or commercial slaughtering where conditions are...+READ
redchief, in response to "In terms of international travel and pregnancy, she may wish to be more vigilant about undercooked foods (popular in France)"
I say why not if you research before hand the cleanliness of the food/milk and the diet of the animal? Of course I mean free range grass fed cows, not cows from farms meant for pasteurization or commercial slaughtering where conditions are EXTREMELY unsanitary ... but healthy and happy grass fed, clean, free range cows (their milk contains good and healthy bacteria that we need ... this milk is untainted by the pasteurization process that kills that good bacteria).
On the other hand "PASTEURIZED commercial milk has been the source of many widespread outbreaks. A total for some of the documented outbreaks due to PASTEURIZED milk over the past few decades is 239,884 cases and 620 deaths."
http://www.realmilk.com/press-release-12mar07.html
Some testimonies of raw milk health improvement: http://www.realmilk.com/documents/MI-RawMilkHealthTestimonials.pdf
"Both raw and pasteurized milk contain E. coli, normally a benign microorganism. The most likely source of the new strains of virulent E. coli is genetically engineered soy, fed to cows in large commercial dairies. If there is any type of milk likely to harbor these virulent breeds, it is commercial pasteurized milk." http://www.westonaprice.org/childrens-health/322-is-raw-milk-safe-for-babies.html
"raw milk is safer than pasteurized milk. Raw milk from healthy, pasture-fed cows has been a staple in many cultures for centuries, and has contributed to fabulous health, not caused disease." source: https://www.westonaprice.org/childrens-health/332-modern-baby-books.html
More on the drinking of raw milk during pregnancy: Source: http://www.westonaprice.org/letters/746-letters-fall-2004.html
First of all, I want to thank you for the wealth of information that you have made available. It has completely changed the way we eat. I have children that are very allergic to dairy. Pasteurized dairy, that is. I'm just now getting ready to introduce raw milk to my three-year-old son, and the other two (twins) are only 6 months old and exclusively breastfed. I have had to eliminate dairy from my diet completely because they react when I consume commercial dairy foods. They are just so sensitive! Last week, we purchased our very first gallon of raw milk from local farmers and I'm just now starting to use it. I made butter and ate some the other night, and my babies didn't have any reaction! I just wanted to share that. They have so many severe food allergies, and I have to avoid so many foods, so being able to have dairy will be such a help nutritionally. I have been physically falling apart trying to eat enough of anything nutritious in order to nurse my twins.
My main question here concerns the safety of raw milk for a pregnant woman (not pregnant again yet, just want to be prepared for next time!). I have read that raw milk can be contaminated with Listeria, a teratogenic bacterium which can be carried by a healthy herd of cows, and no one would know it. First, is this even true? And if so, would culturing the milk allow for the lactic acid-producing bacteria to deactivate the dangerous bacteria?
Alice Kirkpatrick
Muncie, Indiana
Editor's Response: Raw milk, even uncultured raw milk, contains beneficial bacteria that destroy harmful ones like Listeria. Of course you must be careful in your handling of your food--all food--not only while you are pregnant but at all times.
Redchief ... I only wish I had this information with my first 2 pregnancies, my next one will be much more enjoyable with my raw milk. I hope you get the opportunity to research this further. :)
To Helena,
If you get the opportunity to taste some of the tasty raw cheese that France is popular for along side your occasional glass of wine I hope you take it and realize that you are doing something very good for yourself.-COLLAPSE
I went to Paris with a friend when she was about as pregnant as the letter writer (and showing a lot). Four of us ordered a bottle of wine for the table, but didn't specify anything for her, and our waiter came and poured her a full glass without a glance -- that would never happen in the US. The letter writer will be completely fine, enjoy your trip!
It seems quite likely that the mother of an infant with FAS, who claims only to have had a single glass of alcoholic beverage, is in point of fact, lying.
Babymoon stated that she wasn't looking for advice on whether or not she could have an occasional glass of wine, and yet you all fall over yourselves to give it to her. In terms of international travel and pregnancy, she may wish to be more...+READ
It seems quite likely that the mother of an infant with FAS, who claims only to have had a single glass of alcoholic beverage, is in point of fact, lying.
Babymoon stated that she wasn't looking for advice on whether or not she could have an occasional glass of wine, and yet you all fall over yourselves to give it to her. In terms of international travel and pregnancy, she may wish to be more vigilant about undercooked foods (popular in France) and water quality. Not that their water is "bad," but it will have different kinds and levels of impurities and that can make a person very, very ill.-COLLAPSE
I am studying this now. You should be getting advice from your doctor. Studies now show that one drink a=can cause FAS and FAE on some women...are you in that category? No one knows. But if you see and read about these kids it will break your heart. You really should not drink at all. Everything you put into your body goes into your child's body. And the French are not know to "enjoy Merlot"...+READ
I am studying this now. You should be getting advice from your doctor. Studies now show that one drink a=can cause FAS and FAE on some women...are you in that category? No one knows. But if you see and read about these kids it will break your heart. You really should not drink at all. Everything you put into your body goes into your child's body. And the French are not know to "enjoy Merlot" unless they are drinking the cheap stuff from the south made for export.-COLLAPSE
Latest news in England is
'No more than two units of wine once or twice a week:
This advice has been all over our media very recently:
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/nutrition/foodsafety/alcohol/
I can answer that, Apprentice, the rates of FAS are low across western Europe.
My aunt is a paediatric startistician for the WHO who studies this very thing. North America seems to be a different story.
There are many possible reasons for the disparity. How and when pregnant women drink seems to play a factor. A glass in late pregnancy doesn't seem to do much harm at all. But American doctors...+READ
I can answer that, Apprentice, the rates of FAS are low across western Europe.
My aunt is a paediatric startistician for the WHO who studies this very thing. North America seems to be a different story.
There are many possible reasons for the disparity. How and when pregnant women drink seems to play a factor. A glass in late pregnancy doesn't seem to do much harm at all. But American doctors may also be better at the diagnosis than European ones. The third, and most contentious reason, is race. Americans are more racially diverse than their European counterparts, and can exhibit more risk factors for FAS.-COLLAPSE
This is so interesting. I looked up fetal alcohol poisoning on wikipedia and found some fascinating research on the matter: "The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists conducted a study of over 400,000 women, all of whom had consumed alcohol during pregnancy. No case of fetal alcohol syndrome occurred and no adverse effects on children were found when consumption was under 8.5 drinks...+READ
This is so interesting. I looked up fetal alcohol poisoning on wikipedia and found some fascinating research on the matter: "The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists conducted a study of over 400,000 women, all of whom had consumed alcohol during pregnancy. No case of fetal alcohol syndrome occurred and no adverse effects on children were found when consumption was under 8.5 drinks per week.[38] A review of research studies found that fetal alcohol syndrome only occurred among alcoholics; no apparent risk to the child occurred when the pregnant women consumed no more than one drink per day.[39] A study of moderate drinking during pregnancy found no negative effects and the researchers concluded that one drink per day provides a significant margin of safety, although they did not encourage drinking during pregnancy.[40] A study of pregnancies in eight European countries found that consuming no more than one drink per day did not appear to have any effect on fetal growth. A follow-up of children at 18 months of age found that those from women who drank during pregnancy, even two drinks per day, scored higher in several areas of development.[41] An analysis of seven medical research studies involving over 130,000 pregnancies found that consuming two to 14 drinks per week did not increase the risk of giving birth to a child with either malformations or fetal alcohol syndrome.[42]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome
Enjoy your trip, and congrats to you and your hubby on your little blessing!-COLLAPSE
I have been visiting France for over 30 years and now live here. We rarely drink an entire bottle, and sometimes order 2 bottles and only drink a little of each. (Great wines are not expensive in the Rhone.) Often the server or sommelier will suggest that we take the remaining wine home; in this way the restaurant sells a bottle, and we can still enjoy dinner with a delicious bottle without...+READ
I have been visiting France for over 30 years and now live here. We rarely drink an entire bottle, and sometimes order 2 bottles and only drink a little of each. (Great wines are not expensive in the Rhone.) Often the server or sommelier will suggest that we take the remaining wine home; in this way the restaurant sells a bottle, and we can still enjoy dinner with a delicious bottle without wasting the leftover wine. But no, we do not ask for a doggie bag for leftover food. Usually portions are smaller in France and there are no leftovers.-COLLAPSE
Very interesting to see the cultural difference regarding this issue; I wonder what the rate of fetal alcohol problems is in France?
And Helena, congratulations!! Best of luck for the next few months!!