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Dear Helena,
I am considering throwing my next birthday party at a restaurant where you can reserve a private room for a whole-animal dinner that is shared by everyone at your table. I hope to avoid many of the typical etiquette gaffes for parties—I will pay the entire bill and send out invitations well in advance. But here's the problem: A couple of my friends are vegetarians, and one is a fairly new convert who is a bit of a nose-wrinkler (and is also convinced that if her food is cooked near meat her stomach won't be able to digest animal protein). Must I choose something that suits every preference, or would it be acceptable to invite the vegetarians, warn them that the centerpiece is a whole suckling pig, and let them know that we can meet up for a celebratory drink or meal some other time if they'd prefer not to attend?
—Fried Ears and Stuffed Trotters
Dear Fried Ears,
First off, you deserve much credit for exercising lovely manners (paying the bill when you throw the party, giving plenty of notice). But on the topic of including all your friends at the table: Let's face it, even the most laid-back vegetarian will freak out when confronted with the idea of sitting in front of a freshly roasted corpse. But when I called around, I found that most so-called whole-animal dinners don't force diners to confront the entire head-on carcass. You need either an open fire or a giant barbecue grill to cook a large animal like a full-sized pig, lamb, or goat, and the fire codes of bigger cities often don't allow open fires. In New York, for instance, the only grills allowed are ones that are less than 10 square feet, and are 10 feet from any combustible material, like a building wall. Therefore, you're mostly going to be eating the animal in parts, unless you go to a restaurant that serves you roasted suckling (baby) pig.
But even when the animal is in parts, some pieces will still be recognizable, and may shock the most hardened carnivore, says Bobby Hellen, the chef at New York's Resto, who prepares what he calls "large-format" dinners several times a week, offering veal calves and goats as well as pigs and lambs. He says, "When the head gets dropped on the table, some people are like, ‘Oh my God, it has eyes and teeth!'"
If your vegetarian friends could get past that, it's important to find out if there are vegetarian side dishes they could eat. Generally, the chefs I talked to say, a whole-animal dinner is pretty much what you'd expect: a meat-fest. Yes, there are vegetables and side dishes, but here's how Hellen described one: "With the head, we serve late-summer squash so when it's cut open all the fat from the pig's head gets onto the squash."
Of course, you could call ahead and arrange separate dishes for your herbivore guests. But that's missing the point. A whole-animal dinner isn't just about eating together. It's about the primal bonding that comes from everyone sharing the same food. Think of how our cavemen ancestors probably felt when devouring a freshly killed mammoth.
Tell your veggie friends you wouldn't dream of forcing them to watch this grisly spectacle. Instead, you'd love to celebrate your birthday "with some quality one-on-one time." Be specific about when and where ("Next week let's check out that new Malaysian place that just opened in your neighborhood"). Then it will sound like you really do want to hang out—and aren't just trying to console them because they can't gorge themselves on crispy pig ears.
I'm a lifelong vegetarian and I would go. I don't much care what others choose to eat. I'm also more respectful of those who realize meat doesn't really come in pre-portioned Styrofoam packages and that yes, it comes from a living creature.
I just find it hilarious that there are people who would gasp that the head of an animal has teeth and eyes. My, what silly people we westerners are sometimes. I think to an extent, this is sound advice. Seating a bunch of plant eaters around a table that features a roasted dead animal is asking for trouble. Food is political, whether her vegetarian friends are polite about it or not. Food is...+READ
I just find it hilarious that there are people who would gasp that the head of an animal has teeth and eyes. My, what silly people we westerners are sometimes. I think to an extent, this is sound advice. Seating a bunch of plant eaters around a table that features a roasted dead animal is asking for trouble. Food is political, whether her vegetarian friends are polite about it or not. Food is passion. Sitting about at a table, sharing an animal IS a primal bond amongst people. It would be a shame to tarnish the moment by inviting a group of people who are going to be shoe gazing the whole time over something the hostess is likely to view as a moment of community between herself and her guests. Not to be intolerant, but vegetarians and vegans can make a meat-fest awkward real quick.
I say enjoy your birthday without having to rearrange it for the personal lifestyle decisions of others. Extend the offer, making them aware of the meat fest it will be...or invite them out to vegetarian food later on.-COLLAPSE
It's like this:
If you did drugs, and had friends who did drugs, and wanted to have a big party with drugs in it: would you invite your friends who did not do drugs. Even if they said they were cool with it and didn't mind, why invite them? What are they going to do? Are the going to have a good time? No. There going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. It's not they're fault. There's nothing wrong...+READ
It's like this:
If you did drugs, and had friends who did drugs, and wanted to have a big party with drugs in it: would you invite your friends who did not do drugs. Even if they said they were cool with it and didn't mind, why invite them? What are they going to do? Are the going to have a good time? No. There going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. It's not they're fault. There's nothing wrong with not liking drugs. But the shouldn't expect you to rearrange your whole party just to accommodate them. And you shouldn't invite them.-COLLAPSE
Honestly, I think that FEST had it right the first time. She sounds like a lovely hostess and considerate friend. I'm a vegetarian living in Portugal-- which would faze even "the most hardened carnivore" from the US... The head, tongue, livers, and all those other icky bits are regularly relished by friends and family here. I don't eat foods that touched these bits, and I'm happily (and...+READ
Honestly, I think that FEST had it right the first time. She sounds like a lovely hostess and considerate friend. I'm a vegetarian living in Portugal-- which would faze even "the most hardened carnivore" from the US... The head, tongue, livers, and all those other icky bits are regularly relished by friends and family here. I don't eat foods that touched these bits, and I'm happily (and sincerely) ovo-lacto vegetarian. I don't have a problem with people around me eating meat. I respect them as I would have them respect me, and we have a happy equilibrium. I've seen enough suckling pigs on the table to last me a lifetime, but I also enjoyed my wedding dinner (with my old-school carnivore Portuguese family and friends...and new husband) at an entirely vegetarian gourmet restaurant (not even fish could sneak in and contaminate the place! it was heaven!), and they enjoyed themselves.
Vegetarians are diverse in temperament and personality-- like everyone else. Giving the gesture and good-will of an invitation to the party, combined with the understanding of the "or a celebratory drink or meal some other time" clause is appropriate, respectful, and real. Well-done, FEST...and happy birthday! :)-COLLAPSE
My, my, what lousy advice in this column; it is a good way to destroy some friendships for sure. How about a compromise? My advice to the hostess is to order the food she wants for her birthday. After all, it is her birthday and not someone else’s. If it was a party thrown for one of her friends or for some other occasion then it would be another matter entirely. If her vegetarian friends are...+READ
My, my, what lousy advice in this column; it is a good way to destroy some friendships for sure. How about a compromise? My advice to the hostess is to order the food she wants for her birthday. After all, it is her birthday and not someone else’s. If it was a party thrown for one of her friends or for some other occasion then it would be another matter entirely. If her vegetarian friends are real friends then they should know her well enough to either go to her party and graciously eat what they can there or to politely decline and yet be allowed to be honest as to why without retaliation from her (if she is a real friend to them). I think to not invite her vegetarian friends also is to invite hard feelings, because to deliberately invite some friends while excluding other friends is asking for relationship problems in the future.-COLLAPSE
Ugh, not this vegetarian. Never. A girl has to live by her convictions, and if that means one less birthday party, so be it.
Not that I have anyone called friend who would throw such an obscene event.
Toe, you would not get invited to my birthday party. :)
If I am providing food and drinks for people, they can take it or leave it. I am not responsible for finding out the nutritional needs of everyone and making sure they get all their calories, vitamins and minerals. Let's change the subject to alcohol, if someone really likes 25 year old single malt scotch, am I required to serve them that...+READ
Toe, you would not get invited to my birthday party. :)
If I am providing food and drinks for people, they can take it or leave it. I am not responsible for finding out the nutritional needs of everyone and making sure they get all their calories, vitamins and minerals. Let's change the subject to alcohol, if someone really likes 25 year old single malt scotch, am I required to serve them that at my party because that's what their lifestyle demands? No, I set the terms (especially at MY birthday party) and they either participate or they don’t.
And choosing whether or not eat meat still a CHOICE, no? Perhaps you may feel that you could never choose to eat meat, that you feel you have no choice in the matter. Fair enough, but it’s still your choice. Same thing with religion. Let's say you're afraid to death of driving a car, you could never do it, can't imagine yourself setting foot in a car. It is your CHOICE to not drive a car. To you, there is no other option but it is still a choice you have made. You could even argue that being a vegetarian is MORE of a conscious choice as it requires you to go against society in many ways, such as not being able to eat anything at a whole-animal dinner.-COLLAPSE
Another vegetarian here who wouldn't mind being invited, provided there was something I could eat. Not all vegetarians are the same; I say let them know the deal and let them decide whether or not they want to attend (nose wrinklers excluded)
As a former vegetarian and a friend to many veggy and meat eaters, I would never not invite someone because of their food preferences. Being singled out and not invited would feel crappy. Being gracious as the host (early invitations, paying for the meal), includes providing for your guests in a gracious way. If other foods are available, why not ask the restaurant what (special, not just side...+READ
As a former vegetarian and a friend to many veggy and meat eaters, I would never not invite someone because of their food preferences. Being singled out and not invited would feel crappy. Being gracious as the host (early invitations, paying for the meal), includes providing for your guests in a gracious way. If other foods are available, why not ask the restaurant what (special, not just side dishes) they can do for veg friends, then contact the veg friends early and let them decide whether to come or celebrate separately?-COLLAPSE
Hey. . .I'm a vegetarian and I have no qualms about seeing whole carcasses being eaten. In fact, I think that this return to nose to tail eating is the way to go. I decided not to eat meat NOT because I didn't like it, but because I felt like something had to give, that we needed to greatly curtail our meat consumption in this country. And I thought that I could be that person, that I would be...+READ
Hey. . .I'm a vegetarian and I have no qualms about seeing whole carcasses being eaten. In fact, I think that this return to nose to tail eating is the way to go. I decided not to eat meat NOT because I didn't like it, but because I felt like something had to give, that we needed to greatly curtail our meat consumption in this country. And I thought that I could be that person, that I would be willing to sacrifice my pleasure for the greater good. Hypothetically, I, as a vegetarian and a friend, would be happy to attend a party to be with those I love. . .with or without meat involved. Now, for those who (wrongfully) believe that their bodies would be unable to digest vegetables which have been cooked near meats, perhaps you would do best not to invite them. Maybe feeling like you don't want that friend at your party says a bit more about you being uncomfortable with his or her vegi-jihadist nature. . .and I think that's legitimate.-COLLAPSE
As a pescatarian, were I your friend, I would appreciate that you invited me, and nicely decline..
frosteternal and kevin47:
I don't think I said anywhere that vegetarians must be accommodated in any way. I simply pointed out the flaw in the original article, which implies that side-dishes make an appropriate meal for a vegetarian. Yes, a vegetarian can get by and join others in the act of eating, but I wrote specifically because I have frequently been confronted with this dilemma and faced...+READ
frosteternal and kevin47:
I don't think I said anywhere that vegetarians must be accommodated in any way. I simply pointed out the flaw in the original article, which implies that side-dishes make an appropriate meal for a vegetarian. Yes, a vegetarian can get by and join others in the act of eating, but I wrote specifically because I have frequently been confronted with this dilemma and faced the blank stares of people who thought that a vegetarian diet was exactly like theirs minus the meat.
So I'm writing for the benefit of people like frosteternal who may go out of their way to accommodate vegetarians. Just letting you know that having a salad on the table is not in itself accommodating.
Oh, and it's not really fair to call vegetarianism a choice. For one thing, I never, ever hear people describe someone's religion as a choice. As some freakazoid weirdness that hey are pushing on others. It just is what it is.
And second, in a modern society with abundant, globalized food, it is at least as accurate to call meat-eating the choice, since vegetarianism is a non-action. It has been abundantly demonstrated that vegetarianism is not just sufficient, but downright healthy. So when it is so easy to eat a vegetarian diet (because of our modern abundance), then it is really a choice people make to kill animals just for the pleasure of enjoying the taste of their flesh.-COLLAPSE
@Toe
If you aren't willing to go home hungry and disappointed (with the meal I'm buying for you) for your values, then why should I have any respect for your values? Needy vegetarians do nothing for the cause.
Toe: I don't think anyone is suggesting that "vegetarian" means "side-dish-eater."
However, vegetarianism is a CHOICE, a PREFERENCE, not a DISABILITY. No-one is required to cater to a picky-eater, which, for all its moral trappings, one being choosy about one's food really is.
I have several lovely vegetarian and vegan friends, and I go out of my way to accommodate them not because I *must* but...+READ
Toe: I don't think anyone is suggesting that "vegetarian" means "side-dish-eater."
However, vegetarianism is a CHOICE, a PREFERENCE, not a DISABILITY. No-one is required to cater to a picky-eater, which, for all its moral trappings, one being choosy about one's food really is.
I have several lovely vegetarian and vegan friends, and I go out of my way to accommodate them not because I *must* but because I *want* to. It is a gesture, and the mark of a good host, but hardly compulsory.
Oh, and furthermore, "toe," receiving a "balanced diet" at a celebratory gathering is not a reasonable expectation. If one is a guest, one eats what one likes from what is offered, but does not *demand* special treatment beyond that of other guests, or else one ought never be invited out.-COLLAPSE
This article gives some pretty good advice, but it makes the tragic mistake of suggesting that there might be some side dishes suitable for vegetarians. Why do people thing that "vegetarian" means "side-dish eater?" If I served a dinner of roasted human with potatoes and a nice salad, would you be satisfied with the salad and potatoes? Well, you don't eat human, so the rest of the food is what...+READ
This article gives some pretty good advice, but it makes the tragic mistake of suggesting that there might be some side dishes suitable for vegetarians. Why do people thing that "vegetarian" means "side-dish eater?" If I served a dinner of roasted human with potatoes and a nice salad, would you be satisfied with the salad and potatoes? Well, you don't eat human, so the rest of the food is what you eat, right?
The problem here is the word "vegetarian." It does not mean "vegetable-eater." Vegetarians are not people who eat meat-based diets minus the meat. Like any other human, they actually need a balanced diet and some protein in their diet. Suggesting they eat some side dishes is suggesting that they go home hungry and disappointed.-COLLAPSE
An insipid and trolling attempt at humour here, no doubt. In bad taste, poor form and crass culture.
I'm not a proper observer of etiquette, so I'd invite the vegetarians with the promise that we're eating "a big salad with lots of carrots and leaves," surprise their sensibilities with the corpse, and then signal my co-host to pull a cord that unleashes gallons of nasty innards and pig blood onto them. Sort of like that Stephen King book, only with more friendly laughter and less telekinetic...+READ
I'm not a proper observer of etiquette, so I'd invite the vegetarians with the promise that we're eating "a big salad with lots of carrots and leaves," surprise their sensibilities with the corpse, and then signal my co-host to pull a cord that unleashes gallons of nasty innards and pig blood onto them. Sort of like that Stephen King book, only with more friendly laughter and less telekinetic revenge.
In their righteous indignation and utter shock of having been covered in a poor animal's gooey parts, I'd let them know it was just a joke and casually say, "Hey, let's just eat. We got pork."
But again, etiquette is low on my priority list.-COLLAPSE
Good point graffitipassion. I'm a vegetarian, and I've seen plenty of meat eaters ick out at meat-related things (the type that believe their meat products grow on those little styrofoam trays out of nowhere).
I'm a live and let live type. It's not as if they slap it down in the middle of the table for people to pick away at. Hopefully the venue has their menu online to ease the decision...+READ
Good point graffitipassion. I'm a vegetarian, and I've seen plenty of meat eaters ick out at meat-related things (the type that believe their meat products grow on those little styrofoam trays out of nowhere).
I'm a live and let live type. It's not as if they slap it down in the middle of the table for people to pick away at. Hopefully the venue has their menu online to ease the decision process.-COLLAPSE
When I was vegetarian, I never minded seeing whole parts of the animals. Most vegetarians understand eating meat requires pulling apart an animal carcass. They've most likely done their research and seen more gruesome footage of animals than omnivores have. You don't have to shelter them...just warn them in advance.
This is such a lovely example of how thoughtful folks who consider the situation from others' perspectives generally get it right when it comes to good manners! (Notable exception: cross-cultural stuff that makes it hard to correctly understand the situation from others' perspective).
I wouldn't uninvite them from the start. Let them know what you're doing, and that there's an alternative plan. Maybe you'll be surprised to see that most of them are willing to go. (I wouldn't count on the animal protein lady though, haha)
I'm a veg, and I wouldn't be bothered by this. I would guess it depends much on why someone went veg to begin with. Let them know what's going to happen; they can let you know if they'd like to join you.
I'm a vegetarian, and I could care less what other people eat in front of me, even if it is a whole animal. Live and let live. I'd want to be invited, and have a snack beforehand. It's about the company and the celebration.
As a veggie myself, I'd definitely prefer to be warned of what's going on, and be given an alternative. Sort of a "have fun with your pig, man, I'll see ya next week for some coffee," thing. I'm a semi-recent convert, and have found myself balancing only on my self-control when confronted with others eating meat before. That coupled with the normal slightly grossed out response from even...+READ
As a veggie myself, I'd definitely prefer to be warned of what's going on, and be given an alternative. Sort of a "have fun with your pig, man, I'll see ya next week for some coffee," thing. I'm a semi-recent convert, and have found myself balancing only on my self-control when confronted with others eating meat before. That coupled with the normal slightly grossed out response from even meat-eaters to seeing a whole carcass, I probably wouldn't attend even if I was offered something special. But I'm not really one for a party, anyway.-COLLAPSE
I agree that Helena's advice is right on.
This is a tough one. For a special occasion you should be able to choose the venue based on what you want, not what others want. Also, your friends and family would recognize that it's about you and suck it up. At the same time, would it be such a special event knowing that some of your friends are not having as good of a time as they could be having or are uncomfortable? You really have to weigh...+READ
This is a tough one. For a special occasion you should be able to choose the venue based on what you want, not what others want. Also, your friends and family would recognize that it's about you and suck it up. At the same time, would it be such a special event knowing that some of your friends are not having as good of a time as they could be having or are uncomfortable? You really have to weigh the pros and cons in the situation. Personally, if the guest list isn't huge, I'd simply choose another location. However, if it's a pretty big guest list (like a wedding), I'd think my friends could suck it up for a few hours, as the event should take precedence over anything else. As long as both parties show respect and tolerance for the other, it really shouldn't matter.-COLLAPSE
Very good, as a Vegetarian and have been stuck in suck events, I don't quite have a problem with it. But I am one of the rare ones. Still, I probably wouldn't go, it's hard enough to find something to eat when the majority of the party would be eating meat and with that the grease and other byproduct making its way into the other dishes. As a lifelong vegetarian, I'd be suffering for a few good...+READ
Very good, as a Vegetarian and have been stuck in suck events, I don't quite have a problem with it. But I am one of the rare ones. Still, I probably wouldn't go, it's hard enough to find something to eat when the majority of the party would be eating meat and with that the grease and other byproduct making its way into the other dishes. As a lifelong vegetarian, I'd be suffering for a few good days.-COLLAPSE
Good advice Helena!