
Dear Helena,
There is always a lot of debate about babies in bars. I think younger people often don’t like to see them, because it messes up a bar’s sexy vibe. And adults with children don’t want to feel like second-class citizens. I am torn: I feel that babies should be allowed in bars, because pubs are one of the few community gathering spots we have in contemporary society (I’ve heard that in the UK, babies show up in bars a lot more often). On the other hand, I worry that the parents will have to change the babies in the cramped bathrooms, and thinking about that gives me the willies. What’s your take?
—Drinks in Diapers
Dear Drinks in Diapers,
You’re absolutely right: There’s nothing less sexy than a baby, unless it’s a dirty diaper. And one baby tends to attract more. Greg Curley, co-owner of the Double Windsor in Brooklyn, had to ban minors after 5 p.m. once the stroller set threatened to take over. “There were groups of moms with two or three each. People were sitting their babies on the bar.”
Even if your cherub is tucked out of harm’s way in a sling, its very presence is still a buzzkill for many patrons. Babies are like laptops, Curley says, which some bars also ban at night: Both are reminders of drudgery and responsibility—exactly what many patrons are there to escape from.
That said, new parents need to get out of the house and see other adults if they are to retain their sanity. Brooke Parkhurst, a mother and online columnist in New York who often enjoys a cocktail with her baby, says: “Just one hour can really lift your spirits.” And let’s face it: Sitting on a park bench doesn’t have quite the same mood-boosting effect as a pint with friends.
Let me be clear about a few things. First, in general you can only bring a baby into a business with a restaurant license—that is, one that serves food as well as alcohol (exact laws vary by state). It’s illegal to take a minor into an establishment with a bar or nightclub license, even when the minor is in diapers, says Steven Schmidt, vice president of the National Alcoholic Beverage Control Association.
Second, moderation is key. Stay only for one or two drinks. This means that, with luck, you can save diaper changing until you get home and need not risk doing it on an unsanitary toilet floor. Some readers will doubtless object to parents having even one drink while in charge of a baby. But in many other cultures, it’s perfectly acceptable. Some upscale and crowded pubs in London, where I’m from, may object to the presences of babies anytime. But most traditional pubs in the UK will allow pre-toddler-aged tykes; my sister-in-law happily takes her baby to the pub. Michael Friedman, an American who teaches law in Hamburg, Germany, says no one bats an eyelid if he takes his baby to a “kneipe, which is like a friendly neighborhood pub that serves food.”
But even in pubs and kneipes, babies are chiefly seen in the afternoon. This brings me to my third caveat: Stick to happy hour. Parkhurst takes her baby out “around 5 or 6” and says she has never noticed any dirty looks. At that time, the place will be quieter and less crowded, and the staff won’t mind you taking up a table without ordering food. In the afternoon or early evening, most people aren’t there to get drunk and pick people up. Activities that a baby could derail usually don’t start until after dark.
No babies shouldn't be allowed in bars. In particular, never get into a round with them. They never have any money on them and they don't buy their turn.
Don't people realize that you lose certain privileges when you have kids? You can't bring your kids to see a rated R film at 10:00pm. You're just going to have to wait until it comes out on DVD. You also can't bring your kid to a bar for a cocktail. You're just going to have to mix it at home. Or fork up the extra money for a baby sitter.
Archlvt. Your comment is ignorant. Babysitters commonly charge 10-12 an hour. Often more if it is for an infant in diapers. Figure your going out two hours total (half hour drive each way and an hour at the bar). That adds an additional 20-30 dollars to your night. Maybe someone can afford a $6 beer or two with friends, but not a $36+ beer or two. For me, a single beer at a bar is only about...+READ
Archlvt. Your comment is ignorant. Babysitters commonly charge 10-12 an hour. Often more if it is for an infant in diapers. Figure your going out two hours total (half hour drive each way and an hour at the bar). That adds an additional 20-30 dollars to your night. Maybe someone can afford a $6 beer or two with friends, but not a $36+ beer or two. For me, a single beer at a bar is only about 15-30 minutes wages at work. But I would have to work three hours to pay for a beer and a baby sitter.-COLLAPSE
"I don't know, marlynn. Babysitting is expensive."
If you're having a hard time covering babysitting costs, then maybe a bar isn't the right place for you to begin with. If you can't afford child care, you shouldn't be blowing your money on alcohol (overpriced BAR alcohol for that matter).
You should think about MAKING some money before you go off spending it like a teenage girl.
I don't know, marlynn. Babysitting is expensive. Where I live in Austin, TX, the going rate is $12/hour. I can't imagine what it is in NY. Babysitting circles are much more difficult to set up and coordinate than you might think, especially with infants. No one with an infant wants to take on another one. And who wants to go to the trouble of finding a sitter for a 1-2 hour happy hour with a...+READ
I don't know, marlynn. Babysitting is expensive. Where I live in Austin, TX, the going rate is $12/hour. I can't imagine what it is in NY. Babysitting circles are much more difficult to set up and coordinate than you might think, especially with infants. No one with an infant wants to take on another one. And who wants to go to the trouble of finding a sitter for a 1-2 hour happy hour with a friend? It's just a little silly and unrealistic to say "no babies in bars or restaurants (!!! do parents have to always eat at home?) ever." Honestly, you see less of this as kids get older and parents can't think of them as babies any longer.
How about instead everyone tries to be considerate of everyone else? I'll make sure my baby's dirty diaper is changed and my toddler's tantrums are taken outside if Loud Talker at the next table will lower his voice and Diva will stop swinging her gigantic handbag in my face as she swishes past me. I'll also take my kids out only in the late afternoon/early evening if the Bachelorette Party will agree to keep the penis necklaces away until after hours.
Being a parent is tough. So please give us a break. If you want the society to continue into the future, you have to put up with us and our annoying kids and their aromas. Expecting parents and children to hibernate until they're 18 is pretty ridiculous and exceedingly self-centered.-COLLAPSE
I don't think restaurants or bars are the place for babies. Babies fill their diapers whenever they need to and sometimes give off a very unpleasant aroma, regardless of whether the parent [not just mothers] finally takes them for a diaper change. Also, babies cry when they are unhappy, and often scream just for fun. That's very disconcerting, when you're trying to have a friendly chat with your...+READ
I don't think restaurants or bars are the place for babies. Babies fill their diapers whenever they need to and sometimes give off a very unpleasant aroma, regardless of whether the parent [not just mothers] finally takes them for a diaper change. Also, babies cry when they are unhappy, and often scream just for fun. That's very disconcerting, when you're trying to have a friendly chat with your friends or special person. I speak from more than one experience. If parents need to see other grown-ups in adult [note I'm saying adult] public places, then the parents can set up a babysitting circle with some friends. That way, they can find safe watchers, who are known to them and everybody gets a chance to go out, without disturbing the rest of the restaurants' or pubs' clientele. Sorry if that is upsetting to some parents. It helps to remember one can't have everything at the same time. It's clear that these parents love their children and don't want to be apart from then one minute more than necessary. But, it really isn't kind to other people and not the best for the little ones, either.-COLLAPSE
if babies are ok in bars, there should be no problem with me(a 33yr old single male) hanging out at the daycare/playground. funny how it changes when we reverse the situation huh!?
I think a lot of people are missing the point. The places this author is talking about ARE the publick house type places. She pointed out that it is illegal to bring minors of any age into any establishment that has only a liquor or club license.
I've had more fellow "diners" ruin my evening with poor behavior (cellphone talking, laptop clicking, rude-to-waitstaff) than children or babies.
I was at Mie N Yu in Georgetown, DC, at the bar, when a woman put her baby on the cushion of a seating area, and proceeded to change it's didaper. None of the batenders did anything about it. That is just gross, not to mention unsanitary, one would think!
Hell no no babies in bars. I had to wait until I was 21 to go into a bar. They should too.
I'm 59, dine out regularly and have never seen a baby in a bar. Maybe Philadelphia is too stodgy for such laxity but the concept reeks of negligence.
My primary concern is the percentage of parents who will make the 4 p.m. tipple a regular occurrance and don't stop at two or three or four. At what point do kids become endangered by social hour, and what are they teaching kids about how to handle...+READ
I'm 59, dine out regularly and have never seen a baby in a bar. Maybe Philadelphia is too stodgy for such laxity but the concept reeks of negligence.
My primary concern is the percentage of parents who will make the 4 p.m. tipple a regular occurrance and don't stop at two or three or four. At what point do kids become endangered by social hour, and what are they teaching kids about how to handle stress?-COLLAPSE
When I can drink in their playground, they can hang out at my bar.
Amen Jaymes.
Is it just me? Or does anyone else in the universe think that kids at the bar is borderline child-abuse? I'm in SW Missouri and bars are SMOKY, with suggestive things going on, and sometimes rowdy behavior. Even in nice places, 'cause that's what booze does to people. How the hell is an adult supposed to maintain their moral superiority if the kids are there seeing it all, lol!
And...+READ
Amen Jaymes.
Is it just me? Or does anyone else in the universe think that kids at the bar is borderline child-abuse? I'm in SW Missouri and bars are SMOKY, with suggestive things going on, and sometimes rowdy behavior. Even in nice places, 'cause that's what booze does to people. How the hell is an adult supposed to maintain their moral superiority if the kids are there seeing it all, lol!
And drinking and driving your KID? Please say it ain't so.-COLLAPSE
I can't relax with a baby screaming in my ear. I have no particular problem with seeing babies or kids, but I don't want to hear them. If your kid is a whiner or a screamer, please keep it at home. I never saw the inside of a restaurant until i was about five, and I was fifteen or sixteen before i went to a bar. I realize that times have changed, but they haven't changed that much. Parents, just...+READ
I can't relax with a baby screaming in my ear. I have no particular problem with seeing babies or kids, but I don't want to hear them. If your kid is a whiner or a screamer, please keep it at home. I never saw the inside of a restaurant until i was about five, and I was fifteen or sixteen before i went to a bar. I realize that times have changed, but they haven't changed that much. Parents, just be polite. Realize that it's your little darling, not mine. I don't want to hear it, smell it, or trip over it.-COLLAPSE
As happy hour patrons get happier and happier, voices get louder and the language filter starts to get a little more "relaxed." At least that's the case in my circle of friends. If you have a little one in the table behind me and don't mind, then cheers. Otherwise, get your kid the @#&* out of the bar.
there is a time and a place for babies Bars are very adult and should be kept so we also need our space Ilove my children and when they were small the idea of taking them to a bar just did not arise (obviously we drank our wine at home ) restaurants are a different thing and babies of all ages should and are welcome
Kids in pubs, no problem. Kids in bars, no way.
Soup, really, it's just such common sense, right?
naw, hell naw. no kids in bars. inappropriate and dangerous for the child, duh. incredibly inconsiderate to adults looking to enjoy adult time, duh. kid doesn't have valid state issued i.d. to be in a bar, duh. the bartender or cocktail server is not your babysitter--nor are other patrons, who may or may not have impaired judgment around and regarding your child, duh.
kids should not be taught...+READ
naw, hell naw. no kids in bars. inappropriate and dangerous for the child, duh. incredibly inconsiderate to adults looking to enjoy adult time, duh. kid doesn't have valid state issued i.d. to be in a bar, duh. the bartender or cocktail server is not your babysitter--nor are other patrons, who may or may not have impaired judgment around and regarding your child, duh.
kids should not be taught to believe that the entire world, including dark loud smoky places where grown up people drink and talk to each other about grown up things, should be their playground--- kids should be taught that places like this are grown up places where they have no damn business until they are of legal age, duh. duh all around. no kids in bars.-COLLAPSE
I personally don't have kids, but my friends do, and just like the addition of a single female or male to an all male/female event (think bridal shower or stag with one lone member of the opposite sex) a baby has the same effect. It is not the end of the world, but it is the extra ingredient that changes how all the others interact.
I rarely go to bars anymore, but my favorite pizza place now has a two-story building, with a great sports bar on the first floor, and a family restaurant on the second. As far as I know, they serve the same things on both floor, but the bottom floor is clearly a sports bar and designated as such. I was there drinking beer and playing shuffleboard when a couple came in with two toddlers in tow....+READ
I rarely go to bars anymore, but my favorite pizza place now has a two-story building, with a great sports bar on the first floor, and a family restaurant on the second. As far as I know, they serve the same things on both floor, but the bottom floor is clearly a sports bar and designated as such. I was there drinking beer and playing shuffleboard when a couple came in with two toddlers in tow. They plopped down in the bar section.... and sent their kids to "go watch us play games."
Ma'am... I don't want to teach your little kids how to play shuffleboard. I come to adult-land to get away from little kids. No kids in bars. Just no.-COLLAPSE
Jaymes, I think I have developed a crush on you thanks to your brilliantly articulated opinions.
TEAM no underage creatures in bars! That definitely includes yappy dogs in handbags.
Nsolis says: "Yes, people who choose to have kids make a choice, but that doesn't mean they should have to give up their whole lives. Plus, do we really want another generation of kids who think that they're the center of the goddamn universe because their parents gave up their entire lives to raise them? Having managed some people who were raised this way, I vehemently do not."
______
Boy,...+READ
Nsolis says: "Yes, people who choose to have kids make a choice, but that doesn't mean they should have to give up their whole lives. Plus, do we really want another generation of kids who think that they're the center of the goddamn universe because their parents gave up their entire lives to raise them? Having managed some people who were raised this way, I vehemently do not."
______
Boy, Nsolis, you've got the sentiment right but your conclusions are all wet. Who would think that "their parents gave up their entire lives to raise them" when Mommy and Daddy get sitters when it's time to have a nice grownup evening alone? As far as I'm concerned, the kiddies that (correctly) believe they're the "center of the goddamn universe" are the ones that think that Mom and Dad have no business going anywhere unless they drag the brats along.
you don't want the kids to think that they're the "center of the universe"?
Tell the kids they're NOT GOING.
Explain to the kids that they're STAYING HOME WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
Inform the kids that PITCHING A FIT AND DEMANDING TO GO, TOO, won't get them anywhere.
Show the kids that Mom and Dad are in charge and are NOT GOING TO" GIVE UP THEIR WHOLE LIVES."
And then get a SITTER AND GO TO THE BAR.-COLLAPSE
I'd like to share an example - I went with my friends to a "bar-that-serves-food" midday on the weekend. We went there so we could drink and smoke on their patio, as you can not smoke indoors in my state. The small patio had a group of 4 mothers and their babies. As you can imagine, none of us smoked as we didn't want to blow smoke at the newborns. My point is that babies were a detterent to our...+READ
I'd like to share an example - I went with my friends to a "bar-that-serves-food" midday on the weekend. We went there so we could drink and smoke on their patio, as you can not smoke indoors in my state. The small patio had a group of 4 mothers and their babies. As you can imagine, none of us smoked as we didn't want to blow smoke at the newborns. My point is that babies were a detterent to our adult fun. I didn't even check to see if they were well behaved because it really doesn't matter. There are a lot of full-blown restaurants that serve liquor. Bars are for adults and their vices, no matter the time of day.-COLLAPSE
If a 20 year old cannot enter the bar then a baby should not be able to either. Under age is underage. A restaurant is one thing but I have seen kids and babies in places I have seen bouncers then carding students at. Rules are rules and should be for all.
I've already read where some parents object to any conversations that include "adult" words if said in front of their children. I say, no kids in bars period. How dare people tell me that I have to change my behavior because parents bring kids into a bar.
I love it. Putting my 11-month old niece on a bar stool and spinning her around is soooo cute.
*Everyone* thinks that *their* kids are not the problem. *Don't* take them everywhere, even if you're absolutely *positive* they're angels. Just don't.
It's not simply a question of behavior; even if they really are angels, their mere presence in some situations is inappropriate because it changes the mood of the place, the customers' sense of how they should behave, etc. And I'm with queencru...+READ
*Everyone* thinks that *their* kids are not the problem. *Don't* take them everywhere, even if you're absolutely *positive* they're angels. Just don't.
It's not simply a question of behavior; even if they really are angels, their mere presence in some situations is inappropriate because it changes the mood of the place, the customers' sense of how they should behave, etc. And I'm with queencru about the fact that dealing with a little separation anxiety is a normal part of growing up.-COLLAPSE
It's absolutely inappropriate to bring a baby into my bar. Period. You can drink, if you like, with baby table-side on the restaurant side... but nobody under 21's going to go into my bar (no, not even with a parent/guardian... it's illegal in my state).
If they do it in the family-oriented pubs in the U.K., that's fine. But where I am they're as serious as a heart attack regarding minors in...+READ
It's absolutely inappropriate to bring a baby into my bar. Period. You can drink, if you like, with baby table-side on the restaurant side... but nobody under 21's going to go into my bar (no, not even with a parent/guardian... it's illegal in my state).
If they do it in the family-oriented pubs in the U.K., that's fine. But where I am they're as serious as a heart attack regarding minors in bars. I'm also of the school that a baby in a bar is a buzz-kill and downright unpleasant for some patrons. Years ago nobody ever thought of bringing their baby into a bar (except the lady who bartended at the neighborhood tavern, years ago, who was *gasp* an unwed mother -- the owner let her bed the child down in the back room).
And don't even get me started with these folks who hate being out with their small children so much they get tanked up in the restaurant (or try to, at least). Then they want to drive their kids home. It astounds me how many times I've had to remind a customer of their consumption, ask for their keys, and call a cab.-COLLAPSE
I am thinking of the bars I go to -- spirits, wine, beer, loud music and lots of crowds. Not only would it be inappropriate to take a baby there, it would border on child abuse. Even in other situations, it's just not appropriate. Just as it would not kill people to encounter babies in kinder, gentler bars, it will not be a huge sacrifice for parents to respect and acknowledge that there are some...+READ
I am thinking of the bars I go to -- spirits, wine, beer, loud music and lots of crowds. Not only would it be inappropriate to take a baby there, it would border on child abuse. Even in other situations, it's just not appropriate. Just as it would not kill people to encounter babies in kinder, gentler bars, it will not be a huge sacrifice for parents to respect and acknowledge that there are some places in this world that should remain adults only.-COLLAPSE
Nsolis - Well said. Everyone compliments me on how well my son behaves, and quite honestly he does so because I take him everywhere. He knows how he should behave in public, and if he doesn't, I remove him from the situation. (He's only 2.) We've taken him to fairly decent neighborhood restaurants and keep him well entertained and well-fed. I don't allow him out of his seat while we're eating and...+READ
Nsolis - Well said. Everyone compliments me on how well my son behaves, and quite honestly he does so because I take him everywhere. He knows how he should behave in public, and if he doesn't, I remove him from the situation. (He's only 2.) We've taken him to fairly decent neighborhood restaurants and keep him well entertained and well-fed. I don't allow him out of his seat while we're eating and you'd never find him running around a public place. Sometimes he behaves BETTER than some adults I've seen in public. Don't fault the children for their parents' lack of parenting, and don't fault those of us who DO keep others in mind when taking their little ones out and teaching them how to interact with the world.-COLLAPSE
I think many people go to bars so they can kick back and not necessarily have to worry about proper decorum all the time. I've been in quite a few pub-type establishments during happy hour where 2-3 kids are sitting right next to the adults. The adults are being boisterous and not necessarily using child-appropriate language, nor should they have to in this type of situation. Happy hour is for...+READ
I think many people go to bars so they can kick back and not necessarily have to worry about proper decorum all the time. I've been in quite a few pub-type establishments during happy hour where 2-3 kids are sitting right next to the adults. The adults are being boisterous and not necessarily using child-appropriate language, nor should they have to in this type of situation. Happy hour is for adults, not children. I think a lot of parents think that since it's only 5 or 6, it's perfectly fine to bring children at that time. I just think if the bar is going to be crowded with adults, then it's best not to bring the child in at that time.
Nsolis- I think kids are more likely to think they're the center of the universe if parents bring them everywhere. Children need to learn that there are adult-only events, just like there are child-only events. No one is saying that parents with kids have to give up their whole lives to have kids, but they do have to take into account where children may not be welcomed.-COLLAPSE
I find it kind of hilarious when people think that small people (i.e., children) are such an inconvenience. It's the circle of life, people! Kids grow up to be adults like us. Yes, people who choose to have kids make a choice, but that doesn't mean they should have to give up their whole lives. Plus, do we really want another generation of kids who think that they're the center of the goddamn...+READ
I find it kind of hilarious when people think that small people (i.e., children) are such an inconvenience. It's the circle of life, people! Kids grow up to be adults like us. Yes, people who choose to have kids make a choice, but that doesn't mean they should have to give up their whole lives. Plus, do we really want another generation of kids who think that they're the center of the goddamn universe because their parents gave up their entire lives to raise them? Having managed some people who were raised this way, I vehemently do not.
Living on this planet and especially in cities means you have to interact with people--even people you don't like. C'est la vie. Breathe deep and move on. That said, I think Helena strikes exactly the right balance in her advice. You have a baby, you want a drink--go to a bar where it's not completely inappropriate, arrive early, don't stay too long, and leave early.
As for why people feel weird about babes-in-arms in bars, for me it's more about the concern for the kid (bars can be noisy, I'd hate for a kid to get hearing damage).-COLLAPSE
Shattered - you said it perfectly! I too, think that people with kids need to refrain from shoving their sense of entitlement down our throats. YOU decided to have a baby. Why am I the one suffering from your decision? So many times dinner, drinks, coffee, movies, sporting events, and other social outings are ruined because of children. Or should I say, ruined from the parent's total lack of...+READ
Shattered - you said it perfectly! I too, think that people with kids need to refrain from shoving their sense of entitlement down our throats. YOU decided to have a baby. Why am I the one suffering from your decision? So many times dinner, drinks, coffee, movies, sporting events, and other social outings are ruined because of children. Or should I say, ruined from the parent's total lack of parenting skills? Because really, kids are kids... they're just acting like their supposed to. That being said, please stay home or get a sitter.-COLLAPSE
I for one believe that there should be more babies in bars! Shitty parents of the world, I salute you!
We do take our kids to brewpubs and the occasional restaurant/bar, but we're out way before their early bedtimes. If we don't enjoy a tired kid meltdown, and they're the loves of our lives, why should you, random stranger who MAYBE if we're lucky smiles at them because they're cute? We joke about having to go out at old person "early bird special" time now, but I think everyone concerned has more...+READ
We do take our kids to brewpubs and the occasional restaurant/bar, but we're out way before their early bedtimes. If we don't enjoy a tired kid meltdown, and they're the loves of our lives, why should you, random stranger who MAYBE if we're lucky smiles at them because they're cute? We joke about having to go out at old person "early bird special" time now, but I think everyone concerned has more fun if we do.
That said? A "bar" bar that doesn't serve food? No way. I'll save that for date nights or girl's nights.-COLLAPSE
That's what babysitters are for. Stimulate the economy and actually enjoy the evening.
I've got no problem if you want to take the little one to a family dinning establishment at any time of the day. That's why they are there. Have a drink, meet up with friends.... however don't cover your kids ears and scold me because I'm blowing off steam with my girlfriends in the bar.
I have never seen a...+READ
That's what babysitters are for. Stimulate the economy and actually enjoy the evening.
I've got no problem if you want to take the little one to a family dinning establishment at any time of the day. That's why they are there. Have a drink, meet up with friends.... however don't cover your kids ears and scold me because I'm blowing off steam with my girlfriends in the bar.
I have never seen a baby in a bar that doesn't serve food.-COLLAPSE
Good column, Helena. barryg, I agree. There are bars that are for certain sets of people in my town but there are plenty of bars that people go to because of location i.e. neighborhood bars or after-work bars that aren't particularly culturally segregated. Of course location causes some segregation but I think they are still closer to everyman pubs than to like-minded-people bars, especially at...+READ
Good column, Helena. barryg, I agree. There are bars that are for certain sets of people in my town but there are plenty of bars that people go to because of location i.e. neighborhood bars or after-work bars that aren't particularly culturally segregated. Of course location causes some segregation but I think they are still closer to everyman pubs than to like-minded-people bars, especially at happy hour. I think many places don't get very segregated till later in the evening.-COLLAPSE
Don't agree with Mr Taster. At least, it's different where I'm from. Many of the pubs anchor neighborhoods, serve good food, and are meeting spots. So it is actually natural to want to take your kid or grandmother. You will see families eating dinner at these places during normal dinner hours. Some even encourage the young mom set by offering happy hour deals if your kid is in tow, or having...+READ
Don't agree with Mr Taster. At least, it's different where I'm from. Many of the pubs anchor neighborhoods, serve good food, and are meeting spots. So it is actually natural to want to take your kid or grandmother. You will see families eating dinner at these places during normal dinner hours. Some even encourage the young mom set by offering happy hour deals if your kid is in tow, or having "moms and margarita" specials in the early afternoon. But, I agree, babies out after 8 or 9 at the pub is not appropriate at most of these places.-COLLAPSE
If the baby is not under age, why not?
Actually, I think we could do with banning babies (and laptops, now that you mention it) from alot more places. Theatres, concert venues, bookstores, upscale clothing stores, any restaurant that's not branded as a family establishment, coffee houses... anywhere but the street, grocery stores, department stores, chain restaurants and malls, really. And, no this not over-the-top sarcasm. I'm...+READ
Actually, I think we could do with banning babies (and laptops, now that you mention it) from alot more places. Theatres, concert venues, bookstores, upscale clothing stores, any restaurant that's not branded as a family establishment, coffee houses... anywhere but the street, grocery stores, department stores, chain restaurants and malls, really. And, no this not over-the-top sarcasm. I'm absolutely serious. I'm sick to death of people thinking because they have babies they're entitled to ruin everyone else's freedom and adult space, too.
Oh, I have 1 and 3 year old niece and nephew - love 'em to death (& eat out with them at *approapriate* places), doesn't mean I need the company of their peers everywhere I go, thanks.-COLLAPSE
brilliant.
Bars in the US do not serve the same role that pubs in Europe do, so comparisons are rather meaningless. In the US, there just doesn't widely exist the kind of public house that you would feel comfortable taking your grandma, mother and your kid to.
Bars in the US are little enclaves of like-minded people looking to meet other like-minded people. The annoying urbanite hipsters go out to meet...+READ
Bars in the US do not serve the same role that pubs in Europe do, so comparisons are rather meaningless. In the US, there just doesn't widely exist the kind of public house that you would feel comfortable taking your grandma, mother and your kid to.
Bars in the US are little enclaves of like-minded people looking to meet other like-minded people. The annoying urbanite hipsters go out to meet other annoying urbanite hipsters. The blue collar biker dude goes to meet other blue collared biker dudes. Oldies hang out at the oldie cocktail bars. The urbanite hipster, by and large, does not go out to meet the blue collared biker dude or the cocktail-swilling oldie, unless they're doing it to be "ironic" (which makes them even more annoying.)
Contrast that with the role of the public house in the UK-- it's a neighborhood affair. Old, young, black, white-- the public house really is there to serve the public, not cloistered microcosms of society as they do here.-COLLAPSE
Babies "are reminders of drudgery and responsibility." While I'm sure that statement will piss a lot of people off, I think it's hilarious. Way to go Helena!