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Mark Bitterman on Chocolate
Dear Helena,
When I go out to dinner with friends we have an unwritten rule to split the bill and use cash. One person in our group always seems to “forget” to bring cash so he can take the group’s money and put the entire bill on his rewards-earning credit card. What would you do in that situation?
—Confused
Dear Confused,
Since everyone else seems happy to pay cash, your friend’s behavior isn’t wrong. He’s merely taking an opportunity no one else seems to want (much like pocketing an unwanted bread roll from the dinner table). It’s silly for him to fib about “forgetting” cash when everybody knows his motives. He should be relishing the spirit of bonhomie, not mentally adding up the points on his MasterCard, and it’s perfectly OK to tease him about it.
Dear Helena,
It really annoys me when servers bring the check before I’ve asked for it. Sometimes they bring it in the middle of dessert—for all they know I could have been planning to order coffee. It makes me feel like they’re rushing me out of the restaurant. It would be OK if I’d been hanging out for four hours and they were trying to give me a polite hint to leave, but servers do it when I’ve barely had the table for 45 minutes. Shouldn’t they wait to bring the check until I’ve asked for it?
—I Wanted a Second Piece of Pie
Dear I Wanted a Second Piece of Pie,
In a good restaurant, the check should never arrive before you’re ready for it. Anne Stoll, co-owner of Delfina and Pizzeria Delfina in San Francisco, says, “Even if you’re dining at our pizzeria and there’s a huge line, the server should always ask you if you want dessert and never bring the check when you’re still eating.” You’re right that servers often deposit the check as a hint that they want to turn the table. But they shouldn’t do that unless you’ve long outstayed your welcome.
Nonetheless, in America you should not have to ask for the check (let alone be forced to mime scribbling on your hand to a server on the other side of the room). Martha Keller, adjunct table service instructor at the Culinary Institute of America at Greystone, says servers should know a table is ready for the check when “all offerings have been suggested—desserts, coffee, liqueurs”—and either consumed or declined. If the server is still unsure whether you’re fully sated, he should ask, “May I bring anything else?”
While we’re on the topic of bringing the check, let me add a couple of other points. A server shouldn’t make a comment like “I hope you had a really great meal” at the same time as he presents the check, because it seems too much like a reminder that he deserves a tip. Keller explains, “The service should speak for itself. A simple ‘thank you’ is enough.”
Asking if you want change is also a faux pas. A server should bring it automatically and not put you on the spot about how much you want to tip.
Dear Helena,
Whenever my nephew is in town, I take him out for dinner. He always orders the most expensive thing on the menu—be it lobster ravioli or grass-fed steak. It’s not that I can’t afford it, but the fact that he does it every time—even when I’m just ordering soup and salad—seems like taking advantage to me. If you take someone out to dinner, is it OK for him to order the most expensive thing on the menu? If he does it repeatedly, how can you stop him without seeming like an old skinflint?
—Soup-Sipping Aunt
Dear Soup-Sipping Aunt,
Your guest is perfectly entitled to order the most expensive item on the menu—provided it’s only a few bucks more than the other dishes. But if the price is 30 percent more (as a rule of thumb), it’s good manners to pick something else. For example, at New York’s Pastis, the steak frites is $34 and the second costliest entrée is $26. So a guest may order steak without guilt. But at Cyrus in Healdsburg, California, the tasting menus range from $102 to $130, and the caviar selection is $190—well over 30 percent more. A guest shouldn’t order osetra caviar unless you beg him to.
There is one exception to the 30 percent rule: If you order the most expensive item, your guest may, too. You can hardly expect him to order a salad while you’re plowing through the truffle-tasting menu.
Rather than drop tacky hints (“You want to order the lobster? Hmm, it’s kind of pricey”), nip this problem in the bud by taking him to lower-priced restaurants where you’ll feel less annoyed if he orders the costliest entrée.
Is it rude to knock on the table to gain attention when saying goodbye
barbicardiff: I meant to integrate this into my last post. My suggestion would be to continue eating. It's not the end of the world that your entrees and your salads are on the table at the same time. Point of fact many people prefer to be finishing their soup/salad/app course just as entrees arrive rather than having a gap in between. Speaking personally I know there are certain combinations of...+READ
barbicardiff: I meant to integrate this into my last post. My suggestion would be to continue eating. It's not the end of the world that your entrees and your salads are on the table at the same time. Point of fact many people prefer to be finishing their soup/salad/app course just as entrees arrive rather than having a gap in between. Speaking personally I know there are certain combinations of flavors with our salads and soups that work amazingly well with our entrees and if their was a gap the guest might not get that experience. There are times I will purposely fire an entree course so that this happens. When I do so I always explain my reasoning to the guest and so far (in two years at this particular establishment) I've never had anyone complain and most of the time I receive compliments because I did so.
If it really bothers you that much you have to ask yourself a question... is this bad enough that I am willing to either make this restaurant eat the cost of two entrees or eat a substandard, dried-out meal? If you do say something your meal will most likely end up under a heating lamp on the line, and if you ordered steaks every second there raises the temperature just a wee bit higher.
I agree it's something that shouldn't happen in the course of regular events but ultimately it's just not worth the trouble of fighting over.-COLLAPSE
Long story short, you get your bill before you ask because the server is mostly likely busy and wants you to be able to process your payment AT YOUR LEISURE, without having to possibly wait for an extended period of time (even two minutes can seem extended in the right circumstances) while they take care of other business. This is a SERVICE, not an affront to your personal sensibilities. If I...+READ
Long story short, you get your bill before you ask because the server is mostly likely busy and wants you to be able to process your payment AT YOUR LEISURE, without having to possibly wait for an extended period of time (even two minutes can seem extended in the right circumstances) while they take care of other business. This is a SERVICE, not an affront to your personal sensibilities. If I drop a check semi-early because I'm busy (often as desserts come out) I note that I am in no rush for them to leave (always true. The longer they're here, the more I make) and that they are still free to order as they like, I am simply doing this for their convenience.
That is the absolute truth.
"It's not up to the SERVER to make ANY DECISIONS about what CUSTOMERS WANT AT THEIR TABLES NO MATTER WHAT!!"
Yet I end up making most of the decisions for my guests. "What appetizer would you recommend?" "What wine would go with the tenderloin?" What diners like you need to understand, Springs1, is that as a server it is MY JOB to guide you through our restaurant. I am here to tell you what soup goes with what entree you're ordering. I am here to keep you from ordering a bad dessert the chef still hasn't taken off the menu. I am your knowledge center and acting like you know more about MY restaurant and how we do things than I do is pure silliness. So many servers I work with try to nickel and dime guests but I don't simply because I know my quality of service makes me more money than upselling another dollar on a drink will. When a guest understands my role and allows me to recommend dishes, wines, cocktails, allows me to pace their service correctly, allows me to DO MY JOB without worrying about six million stupid little details that some book somewhere said I should be doing they find a much better experience than anyone that gets their panties in a twist because I brought the check four minutes too early for their tastes.-COLLAPSE
I hate it when I have a date with a nice guy at a nice restaurant and we're relaxing and enjoying conversation over cocktails and our salads and then the entrees suddenly appear. My date is a mild gentleman and never says anything. This has happened twice lately and I am just holding my tongue while seething inside at the rudeness of the wait staff. Any suggestions without appearing to not be a...+READ
I hate it when I have a date with a nice guy at a nice restaurant and we're relaxing and enjoying conversation over cocktails and our salads and then the entrees suddenly appear. My date is a mild gentleman and never says anything. This has happened twice lately and I am just holding my tongue while seething inside at the rudeness of the wait staff. Any suggestions without appearing to not be a lady?-COLLAPSE
They say that if you don't want your house guests to overstay their welcome, just begin to serve oatmeal for every single meal. Auntie could just take him to the same very affordable restaurant every time he visits.
OR - how about this for a fresh idea - just be frank with him! In between visits (not at the restaurant) tell him that it is considered by most people to be rude to always order the...+READ
They say that if you don't want your house guests to overstay their welcome, just begin to serve oatmeal for every single meal. Auntie could just take him to the same very affordable restaurant every time he visits.
OR - how about this for a fresh idea - just be frank with him! In between visits (not at the restaurant) tell him that it is considered by most people to be rude to always order the most expensive item on the menu. If his parents didn't teach him that, then maybe it falls to his Auntie to do so. I don't care how old he is, people learn new things throughout their lives - and if nobody cares enough to inform him what is acceptable, and hold him to good behavior, how is he to learn...?-COLLAPSE
the auntie does not state how old her nephew is or if he is on a budget. If she enjoys his company and can afford it then what is the big deal? If, however, on the other hand he eats and runs and the relationship seems one sided she needs to find herself busy next time he calls for a free meal.
Man I didn't know about the 30% rule, my sister in law is always ordering lobster and shrimp whenever we take her out to eat.
Good heavens, if only we could get servers to bring the check before we were ready for it, rather than ten or fifteen minutes after! You can always order something else and have them add it to the check or bring you another one. I'm sick and tired of being held hostage by a vanished server when we want to leave.
I agree with whoever wrote that someone should talk to the nephew if it's an unfailing habit. It doesn't have to be an aggressive statement, but it should be brought to his attention. I'd probably joke about his expensive tastes and hope that brings some awareness to the situation.
As a server, I have to weigh in on the bill issue. It can be really, really hard to judge when people are ready...+READ
I agree with whoever wrote that someone should talk to the nephew if it's an unfailing habit. It doesn't have to be an aggressive statement, but it should be brought to his attention. I'd probably joke about his expensive tastes and hope that brings some awareness to the situation.
As a server, I have to weigh in on the bill issue. It can be really, really hard to judge when people are ready for the cheque, no matter how intuitive you are. I've found that asking if there is anything else I can bring them is a good way to judge where they are at. A no means I'll bring the check and drop it discretely, or possibly mention that it is ready for them at their leisure. If they are not sure, I just print the bill and keep it with me, then give them some time before I check back and offer coffee, tea, water refill, or whatnot.-COLLAPSE
thomas64 wrote:
"As for the third question, I say buyer beware. If you offer to pay for someone's dinner, then it's too bad for you if he orders the most expensive thing on the menu. He has no obligation to eat what you would prefer him to."
This is a sad societal comment. Basically, when you offer assistance, a gift, or a favor, you should expect to be taken fullest advantage of, because...+READ
thomas64 wrote:
"As for the third question, I say buyer beware. If you offer to pay for someone's dinner, then it's too bad for you if he orders the most expensive thing on the menu. He has no obligation to eat what you would prefer him to."
This is a sad societal comment. Basically, when you offer assistance, a gift, or a favor, you should expect to be taken fullest advantage of, because it's your fault that you offered.-COLLAPSE
My group once had a person just like grumblebee's customer, who would charge the party's total on his card, then leave a tip less than what everyone else had already contributed in cash to the tip. So he profited not only from the rewards, but also from his own tip, which he did not contribute, and everyone else's tips, which he skimmed.
shaogo
"Even though it's explained later on, I think it's ridiculous to say in one paragraph that the check shouldn't be delivered early; then say later that the check should come without being asked for... it's putting a burden on the server that I think is unreasonable but for the finest restaurants."
It's ridiculous to say that the check should come without any type of communication is...+READ
shaogo
"Even though it's explained later on, I think it's ridiculous to say in one paragraph that the check shouldn't be delivered early; then say later that the check should come without being asked for... it's putting a burden on the server that I think is unreasonable but for the finest restaurants."
It's ridiculous to say that the check should come without any type of communication is what is ridiculous.
The only burden on the server is the one THEY put ON THEMSELVES by NOT VERBALLY COMMUNICATING with their customers by simply ASKING. As far as the customer goes, if they want something, SPEAK UP!! If you want the check, ASK for it. Don't just depend on the server.
There are too many people that EXPECT without asking for something as if servers are mind readers such as getting water or water with lemon. If I want water, I will order it, plain and simple.-COLLAPSE
To tatamagouche
"I also don't have a problem with the check being dropped off whenever it's convenient for the server; if I decide I want something else, the bill can be adjusted."
It's not that it can be adjusted, it's the principle of it that they made a decision for YOU that wasn't "THEIRS" to make.
Also, they could have gotten my order for something else INSTEAD of getting an unwanted...+READ
To tatamagouche
"I also don't have a problem with the check being dropped off whenever it's convenient for the server; if I decide I want something else, the bill can be adjusted."
It's not that it can be adjusted, it's the principle of it that they made a decision for YOU that wasn't "THEIRS" to make.
Also, they could have gotten my order for something else INSTEAD of getting an unwanted item, means they have wasted MY TIME as well as other customer's time trying to be predict what we want next.
It's not about the bill being adjusted, it's about it's ONLY THE CUSTOMER THAT HAS THAT RIGHT TO SAY IT'S TIME TO GO, NOT ANYONE ELSE!!
We control the service as customers, NOT OUR SERVER!! They are at OUR MERCY, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!! You satisfy US, NOT ASSUME OR GUESS OR DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!
The bill can be adjusted, but as I said, that is time WASTED if the check isn't wanted. Paper wasted printed the check. Time that COULD have been spent getting what WAS wanted. Not OVERSTEPPING by making a decision that isn't YOURS to make.
"If not, then it's up to you not to be oversensitive."
It's not up to the SERVER to make ANY DECISIONS about what CUSTOMERS WANT AT THEIR TABLES NO MATTER WHAT!! Even if the place is closing, the server should say " the restaurant is closing in 10 minutes, is there anything else I can get you." If they say "no", then they are consenting to the check. Don't just bring the check. The customers do still have 10 minutes.-COLLAPSE
"Asking if you want change is also a faux pas. A server should bring it automatically and not put you on the spot about how much you want to tip."
It's all about laziness why this happens to save time is why they ask you if you want change. They shouldn't be trying to cut corners when it's their job to get you your change. They don't want to do the extra trips, that's what it's all about.
I don't agree about the server should be giving the check if you overstay. It's not their choice of if you leave or not. I don't care if the customers were there 4 hours, they have ZERO rights to decide if the check is wanted or not. THE CUSTOMER RUNS THE SERVICE, NOT THEIR SERVER!!
While I agree, customers shouldn't be there hours and not order anything when it is BUSY that is, but getting...+READ
I don't agree about the server should be giving the check if you overstay. It's not their choice of if you leave or not. I don't care if the customers were there 4 hours, they have ZERO rights to decide if the check is wanted or not. THE CUSTOMER RUNS THE SERVICE, NOT THEIR SERVER!!
While I agree, customers shouldn't be there hours and not order anything when it is BUSY that is, but getting the check is ONLY the CUSTOMER'S DECISION, NOT THE SERVER'S DECISION!!-COLLAPSE
The way to solve the check problem is for the SERVER to ask when asking about dessert "Would you all like anything else tonight(or if it's lunch, today)?" This way, if they say "I don't know" or "I might want something else", the server will know not to bring the check. If they say "That's all we will have", then the server knows to bring the check. They should be bringing it BEFORE the dessert...+READ
The way to solve the check problem is for the SERVER to ask when asking about dessert "Would you all like anything else tonight(or if it's lunch, today)?" This way, if they say "I don't know" or "I might want something else", the server will know not to bring the check. If they say "That's all we will have", then the server knows to bring the check. They should be bringing it BEFORE the dessert if it's wanted NOT to INTERRUPT you eating and to possibly even ring it up before you get the dessert or if you want to wait until you get the dessert, they can ring it up as they bring you dessert. It's faster that way for the ones that do want their check. I HATE when servers bring you the check while you are eating dessert. It's just rude. They could have brought it out BEFORE the dessert or wait until after, but not during me eating. That is an interruption, unnecessarily. I hate when the servers bring the check with the dessert whether I asked for it or not, because they can easily bring it out BEFORE the dessert. If a dessert isn't wanted by the server asking and the customers decline a dessert or ANYTHING else, then the check should be brought promptly.
To the person that said they weren't allowed to "SUGGEST" the check, well you can say "Do you all want ANYTHING ELSE" which isn't suggesting "THE CHECK" if they say that is all they want. They probably will speak up then and say "the check too as well as the dessert"
My husband and I have ordered AFTER a dessert. I also can't stand it a few times when servers have thought when I asked for a box, that meant I didn't even want dessert, that I was full. Sometimes I am full, but a lot of times, I am making ROOM for dessert and want the leftovers for another meal.
Servers shouldn't assume anything. If they are required to bring the check such as at lunch time or places like Denny's, they need to tell you they are required to do this and if they want anything else, they can feel free to add to it, that you are just bringing it for their convenience.
The server should NEVER bring the check without asking first unless it is required to.
If the customer wants their check without ordering dessert, they can take some steps THEMSELVES to ask for their check before the entrées come out. It can even be rung up before you eat even if wanted. If you want to wait until the food arrives, the server can ring it up while you eat.
Also, if I know for sure I want the check and the dessert, I will ask for both. If I know I won't want dessert, I will ask for the check. I can't stand when servers say "You don't want dessert" AFTER you said already you wanted the check. I understand it's their job to upsell, but that is just rude to NOT LISTEN to WHAT THE CUSTOMER SAID!! The customer said they wanted their check, don't try to change their mind. If I wanted a dessert, I wouldn't be asking for the check, like DUH!! That's what I want to say to them wasting my time asking me stupid questions like that. It's like what you want as a customer goes out the window and they feel they have a right to try to change your mind, when it's not up to them to do that.
Also, if a customer asks for a box, the server can ask if they will be wanting a dessert or anything else. That's a good time to find out, because maybe they will want the check, but didn't think about asking for it at the time of the box.
Why can't servers think with common sense about this subject? You ask, instead of playing mind reader. It's a win, win situation if you ask the customer or if the customer does want their check faster than normal(like for sure they won't want dessert), they ask for it when they order their entrées.
No matter if the customer wants dessert or not, the check shouldn't be brought WITH or DURING dessert, PERIOD!! You want to eat when you get your dessert, so it would be best if it was brought out before the dessert came out if they asked for it. Same thing if the customer wants their check when they order their entrées, they should be getting it BEFORE the entrées come out.-COLLAPSE
To the person who wrote in about the guy w/ the credit card: I'd be careful to notice whether or not he is tipping the full amount that people have included w/ their cash. I work as a server and half the time when a person takes everyone's cash and puts the tab on their card or debit they end up pocketing part of the tip and leaving less than what the group, collectively, was going to leave. (us...+READ
To the person who wrote in about the guy w/ the credit card: I'd be careful to notice whether or not he is tipping the full amount that people have included w/ their cash. I work as a server and half the time when a person takes everyone's cash and puts the tab on their card or debit they end up pocketing part of the tip and leaving less than what the group, collectively, was going to leave. (us servers DO notice things like this, so dont think you are pulling a fast one) Just the other day this happened where I overheard the women @ the table discussing how much tip to leave (both said they would leave $5... so that would be $10 total right there... not including the "gentleman's" tab/tip) Anyway, come time to pay, the women go to the washroom while the man settles the tab. He takes the cash and tips me $5 for the entire check. So not only did he pocket half my tip but he didnt even tip on his own meal!
Anyway, not saying your friend is like this, but I'm saying this happens more often than you'd think. :-(-COLLAPSE
Regarding the nephew story -- this is a perfect case of someone doing the same thing all the time that annoys you -- you KNOW full well they are gonna do that, so it's time to implement a coping mechanism.
Do what Helena suggested and just take him to some place where the most expensive thing on the menu is a price point you are comfortable with.
In other words, exercise control on the things...+READ
Regarding the nephew story -- this is a perfect case of someone doing the same thing all the time that annoys you -- you KNOW full well they are gonna do that, so it's time to implement a coping mechanism.
Do what Helena suggested and just take him to some place where the most expensive thing on the menu is a price point you are comfortable with.
In other words, exercise control on the things you can control and RELAX about all the rest!
I don't agree with some other commenter than he needs a good talking to - he'll work it out eventually.-COLLAPSE
I've been serving for some time now, and while I also hate when servers bring the check before I'm ready - I like to enjoy my meal, and not feel like I'm taking up the server's "valuable" time and space as each minute goes by - I have to say, it's one of the more difficult things to please everyone with.
Depending on where people are from and the places the normally dine at, people expect an...+READ
I've been serving for some time now, and while I also hate when servers bring the check before I'm ready - I like to enjoy my meal, and not feel like I'm taking up the server's "valuable" time and space as each minute goes by - I have to say, it's one of the more difficult things to please everyone with.
Depending on where people are from and the places the normally dine at, people expect an entirely different check-dropping approach. At some place I've worked, we weren't allowed to bring the check, or suggest they take the check, until it was specifically asked for. You have no idea how many people are furious and think you've been ignoring them when you let them sit around talking and sipping on their coffee for 20 minutes after their meal. Meanwhile, other people give you dirty looks if you even walk by too many times while they are enjoying their coffee 45 minutes later. I try to read my tables, but there's only so much mind-reading you can do as a server. You really can't please everyone.
I work in a pooled house now and I have been trained in the past to leave my tables alone, but I often feel pressure from the managers and other waiters to turn my tables over quicker due to long waits and the extra money a new table would bring. I hate pressuring people, but honestly, people shouldn't be coming to a restaurant with a 1+ hour wait and expect to hold onto a table indefinitely unless they are consistently ordering new items. People will sit around with coffee and a muffin for 1.5 hours and leave a 15% tip (about $2-3), during which time I could have turned the table 3 times and gotten about $30 instead. We are trying to make a living here, after all....at least leave extra money if you intend to take up in-demand space for that long.-COLLAPSE
I'm sorry, but I would never order the most expensive thing on the menu when someone else is paying... unless that someone is my husband or parents, and the occasion is a special one.
We have an in-law who does this at every meal. I find it hoggish and inconsiderate.
If you're in doubt, my advice is to find 2 or 3 things that look good to you, wait to see what the host orders, then choose a...+READ
I'm sorry, but I would never order the most expensive thing on the menu when someone else is paying... unless that someone is my husband or parents, and the occasion is a special one.
We have an in-law who does this at every meal. I find it hoggish and inconsiderate.
If you're in doubt, my advice is to find 2 or 3 things that look good to you, wait to see what the host orders, then choose a similarly-priced option for yourself. A dollar or two more is OK, but anything else: tacky.-COLLAPSE
I have one friend who likes to tip significantly less than I do. Thankfully, we have an open enough friendship that I can just tell her what I wanted to tip if I have cash and she wants to put it on her card, and the composite tip she writes will be my tip plus whatever her tip would have been. I suspect the guy who pays with the card ends up tipping more or less than the group at large would...+READ
I have one friend who likes to tip significantly less than I do. Thankfully, we have an open enough friendship that I can just tell her what I wanted to tip if I have cash and she wants to put it on her card, and the composite tip she writes will be my tip plus whatever her tip would have been. I suspect the guy who pays with the card ends up tipping more or less than the group at large would have, based on his opinions of the service.-COLLAPSE
wow, helena seems to be getting some sense! ;-).
(except i don't condone the lying guy with the credit card. just 'fess up, bro!).
I used to work for a very well regarded, finer dining, small-ish chain restaurant. It was the kind of place where people said, "I don't eat at chain restaurants except for X." It was company policy that the check was dropped immediately after the guest declined dessert or soon after the dessert was on the table. There was no waiting for them to finish dessert/coffee. I hated it, thought it was...+READ
I used to work for a very well regarded, finer dining, small-ish chain restaurant. It was the kind of place where people said, "I don't eat at chain restaurants except for X." It was company policy that the check was dropped immediately after the guest declined dessert or soon after the dessert was on the table. There was no waiting for them to finish dessert/coffee. I hated it, thought it was tacky, but it was the rule and if you were caught breaking it, there were consequences.
I also hate when a server is only friendly when they drop off the check. If they didn't bother to smile or act interested except for when it's time to be tipped, it's pretty obvious. I wouldn't necessarily penalize them for it, but it's an annoying trait of some servers.-COLLAPSE
I think people shouldn't "mind read" .... the whole "everyone knows why the guy is using the credit card" thing is in this category. No, you really don't know why...unless he says.
+1 Jaymes' post.
good column.
My brother-in-law is that guy with the credit card and no cash. (He's also a poor tipper). His son is the kid who always orders they most expensive item on the menu, and the two have been known to actually argue about it. I avoid eating out with them more than once a year. Its just too much.
I agree that the friend isn't doing anything wrong by using his credit card. A lot of people don't carry cash with them; it's possible that he is actually forgetting cash. And, if you want the points for your portion of the meal, bring your card and tell the server how much you want on each card.
Glowworm, I agree, this is one of those "problems" that isn't really a big deal at all.
Very good column. I'm not bothered by the waiter saying he/she hoped you had a good meal, though. I would enjoy hearing that, in fact. It doesn't sound like begging for compliments, as they do in my cell phone store: "If you get a survey about our service, please remember that anything but a five for 'excellent' means that we get a failing grade." Even though they usually DO give good service,...+READ
Very good column. I'm not bothered by the waiter saying he/she hoped you had a good meal, though. I would enjoy hearing that, in fact. It doesn't sound like begging for compliments, as they do in my cell phone store: "If you get a survey about our service, please remember that anything but a five for 'excellent' means that we get a failing grade." Even though they usually DO give good service, that one makes me want to give them threes. Not really -- but I think about it.-COLLAPSE
Depending on how stars restaurant. I work in a restaurant that is a turn and burn, most of my customers want check before I can even offer coffee or desserts.
Jaymes, spot on! Why is everything a personal affront these days?
If a guest wants to order something after the bill is dropped, simply order it. How can a waiter make someone feel anything? It's not like you have to get up and go the exact second the bill is paid. Jesus.
SeitansMinion, it sounds to me like the person who is bothered by the behavior is fixating on a really minor transgression--and many people wouldn't even recognize it as a transgression. Remember, the questioner said it was an "unwritten rule"; from the sound of it, it is probably an unspoken rule too and the credit card guy may not even realize that "confused" is irritated. I file this firmly...+READ
SeitansMinion, it sounds to me like the person who is bothered by the behavior is fixating on a really minor transgression--and many people wouldn't even recognize it as a transgression. Remember, the questioner said it was an "unwritten rule"; from the sound of it, it is probably an unspoken rule too and the credit card guy may not even realize that "confused" is irritated. I file this firmly under the heading of "There are some 'problems' that are not worth 'correcting' ".-COLLAPSE
I've found that, generally speaking, I do the best in life when I don't ascribe ulterior motives to others' actions. Bringing the check before I'm ready for it falls into that category. Maybe the waiter is really harried and just got a tongue lashing from a previous customer for not bringing the check in a timely manner. Who knows. Unfortunately, I've got far more serious problems in my life to...+READ
I've found that, generally speaking, I do the best in life when I don't ascribe ulterior motives to others' actions. Bringing the check before I'm ready for it falls into that category. Maybe the waiter is really harried and just got a tongue lashing from a previous customer for not bringing the check in a timely manner. Who knows. Unfortunately, I've got far more serious problems in my life to spend my energy worrying about than that. If I'm not ready, I just sit there leisurely until I am. If I want to order something additional, I do.
Letting a friend get points on his credit card doesn't concern me either. I suppose it might if I got a credit card that gives points, too, but until I do, I'm happy to help him out. More power to him.-COLLAPSE
I also don't have a problem with the check being dropped off whenever it's convenient for the server; if I decide I want something else, the bill can be adjusted. No need to feel rushed by the action unless rushing's warranted; it's not hard to gauge whether you've camped out too long or there are others waiting for the table or closing time is nigh. If not, then it's up to you not to be...+READ
I also don't have a problem with the check being dropped off whenever it's convenient for the server; if I decide I want something else, the bill can be adjusted. No need to feel rushed by the action unless rushing's warranted; it's not hard to gauge whether you've camped out too long or there are others waiting for the table or closing time is nigh. If not, then it's up to you not to be oversensitive.-COLLAPSE
Aww, as a restaurant guy, I cry foul on the second question.
Even though it's explained later on, I think it's ridiculous to say in one paragraph that the check shouldn't be delivered early; then say later that the check should come without being asked for... it's putting a burden on the server that I think is unreasonable but for the finest restaurants.
Servers shouldn't be put in the...+READ
Aww, as a restaurant guy, I cry foul on the second question.
Even though it's explained later on, I think it's ridiculous to say in one paragraph that the check shouldn't be delivered early; then say later that the check should come without being asked for... it's putting a burden on the server that I think is unreasonable but for the finest restaurants.
Servers shouldn't be put in the position of having to be mind-readers. There are other people who need their attention, too, for more important things than the check after one's hunger and thirst are sated.-COLLAPSE
I generally find it easier for people to pay by card in a group. It might annoy the server, I dunno, but it means we aren't all trying to make change for $20 bills, which is all anyone ever has.
Don't see anything wrong with the credit-card guy. As for the third question, I say buyer beware. If you offer to pay for someone's dinner, then it's too bad for you if he orders the most expensive thing on the menu. He has no obligation to eat what you would prefer him to. If you don't want to buy him an expensive dinner, then don't go to a place that has expensive items - how hard is that to...+READ
Don't see anything wrong with the credit-card guy. As for the third question, I say buyer beware. If you offer to pay for someone's dinner, then it's too bad for you if he orders the most expensive thing on the menu. He has no obligation to eat what you would prefer him to. If you don't want to buy him an expensive dinner, then don't go to a place that has expensive items - how hard is that to figure out?-COLLAPSE
Thank you for bringing up the issue of a server asking if you want change. I find that really rude and annoying. Just bring back the money and let me decide. If I want the server to keep the change, I will tell them that. Don't ask me.
I'm sorry, but if the nephew ALWAYS orders the most expensive thing on the menu, someone needs to talk to him about it. It won't look good later in life at business dinners if he does this. Maybe the aunt should talk to his mother about it, if she doesn't feel comfortable saying something herself. But I agree with previous posters - time to start taking him out to places where this isn't as...+READ
I'm sorry, but if the nephew ALWAYS orders the most expensive thing on the menu, someone needs to talk to him about it. It won't look good later in life at business dinners if he does this. Maybe the aunt should talk to his mother about it, if she doesn't feel comfortable saying something herself. But I agree with previous posters - time to start taking him out to places where this isn't as obvious or as big a deal. Still and all, he needs to learn how bad it looks to some people.-COLLAPSE
I'm an aunt who loves to lavish treats on my nephew. He enjoys a good meal and I can afford it, so I like to endulge him once in awhile. I feel it's a small price to pay for the great relationship we're building while we're sharing some good grub. But if it really boths her, she should stick with pizza nights.
i like your suggestion to solve this problem, take him to a weenie joint
It seems like Helena missed the point on the first question -
The annoyance seems to be in the fact that everyone has decided to forfeit the points on their individual credit cards in the interest of ease of payment for the entire group. One person "forgetting" cash as per the agreement allows them to scoop the points for the entire, much larger bill.