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Dear Helena,
It really bugs me when a server recites the specials without saying the prices. Servers ought to say the price, don’t you think?
—Don’t Keep Secrets
Dear Don’t Keep Secrets,
There’s a certain kind of restaurant where talking about filthy lucre at the table is considered déclassé.
At Diner, a Brooklyn restaurant at the epicenter of the ultrahip Williamsburg artsy scene, there is no regular menu, only changing daily specials. Well, there is one menu item: a hamburger. The servers write down all the other dishes available that day on butcher paper covering the tables when they seat you: a laborious—dare I say, pretentious—process that does not include writing down the price of said items. Andrew Tarlow, Diner’s co-owner, says that the restaurant’s reputation is such that its customers know what price range to expect from the menu, and that not actually discussing it has a soothing effect. “It’s a romantic notion of taking numbers and clocks out of [the dining experience],” he says.
Gary Smith, a restaurant consultant and former server at fancy San Francisco restaurant Michael Mina, believes servers should only mention cost if the price is substantially higher than any dish on the menu: filet mignon, lobster, etc. Otherwise, he says, mentioning prices is “tacky.” If the customer wants to know, it’s his or her responsibility to ask.
But inquiring about the price is mildly humiliating for the customer, akin to requesting tap rather than bottled water (before the former became the ecoconscious choice). You’re showing yourself to be a budget-conscious diner. That’s nothing to be ashamed of, but you probably don’t want to draw attention to it either.
If servers shrink from uttering prices aloud, a simple solution is to put the specials and their prices on a board, or on a menu insert. But in my view, mentioning numbers tableside shouldn’t be such a big deal, and many Chowhounds agree. All the server need do is state the price of the dish in the same silky tone with which he utters the words “cacao nib emulsion,” and it won’t destroy the mood.
The establishment I work in usually has two or three specials, of which I'll choose one to sell based on the guests at my table and what I know of the clientele in house (I work in a convention-oriented hotel). The all-male sales meeting definitely hears about the steak, while the bachelorette party is going to hear about our salad special. I very rarely include prices simply because it has never...+READ
The establishment I work in usually has two or three specials, of which I'll choose one to sell based on the guests at my table and what I know of the clientele in house (I work in a convention-oriented hotel). The all-male sales meeting definitely hears about the steak, while the bachelorette party is going to hear about our salad special. I very rarely include prices simply because it has never been an issue. If someone is on a budget they simply ask and I tell.
In other words, this whole thing is a complete non-issue that only becomes an issue when people are too timid or stubborn to act like adults and communicate with other people. Unless you're jumping around and flailing your arms you aren't causing a scene. Unless you're asking me if I can leave off the sauce and charge you less, you aren't being a cheapskate. I know I ask about prices whenever another server rattles the specials off to me. It simply is not a big deal.-COLLAPSE
I like it when restaurants print the daily specials out (with prices) on a separate sheet of paper and slip it into the menu for precisely so many of the reasons listed here: it allows one more time to think, it provides price information, and if I have a momentary lapse in attention while the server is speaking, no problems: the information is there for me to read again.
I dislike recitations of non-menu items for the reason that there is never enough time to mentally consider the items and cooking methods before the next item is rattled off. And they are almost always rattled off, leaving the patron scant time to decide. It's like flashing a menu in front of a diner's eyes for one or two minutes, then taking it away and asking for a decision. It really is...+READ
I dislike recitations of non-menu items for the reason that there is never enough time to mentally consider the items and cooking methods before the next item is rattled off. And they are almost always rattled off, leaving the patron scant time to decide. It's like flashing a menu in front of a diner's eyes for one or two minutes, then taking it away and asking for a decision. It really is absurd. Who ever decided this was posh?-COLLAPSE
As a server, I always mention prices that are above or below the mean for that course. It makes it easier for everyone in today's economy and people appreciate the idea of being taken care of. Assuring them there is nothing to worry about as far as $$ is part of giving service. But let's throw in the caveat: know where you are eating and be able to afford it. We all are "budget-conscious" at...+READ
As a server, I always mention prices that are above or below the mean for that course. It makes it easier for everyone in today's economy and people appreciate the idea of being taken care of. Assuring them there is nothing to worry about as far as $$ is part of giving service. But let's throw in the caveat: know where you are eating and be able to afford it. We all are "budget-conscious" at times, just don't be my mother. She reads menus from "right to left": "ooooh $9.99! that sounds good!" :) And as far as "printing an insert" goes, only if you're composting all the wasted paper you're going to be generating for every service of every day.-COLLAPSE
I feel for the guys taking a girl out on a first/second date on this one....because most people care about the cost..but on a first date who would want to ask??
In these days of computers, there's really no excuse at all for reciting the specials. Just print up an insert! If you run out of something, then that information can be conveyed verbally.
I'm sure many restaurants feel that having the server recite the specials is a way of marketing them, but I think in the end it turns out to be more of a negative than a positive, especially if the prices...+READ
In these days of computers, there's really no excuse at all for reciting the specials. Just print up an insert! If you run out of something, then that information can be conveyed verbally.
I'm sure many restaurants feel that having the server recite the specials is a way of marketing them, but I think in the end it turns out to be more of a negative than a positive, especially if the prices aren't given. As I mentioned above, if people assume a special is more expensive than it is, the restaurant might lose sales; if the price of the special turns out to be higher than the diner expects, then you have a customer whose last impression (the bill) of your restaurant is negative and who probably won't come back.-COLLAPSE
I agree with Ruth (above). The one slight diff would be that if you are eating at Michael Mina you are not price conscious so if the meals on special are in line with the other meals then only mentioning prices that are not in line seems reasonable. Going to a special meal should allow for more experience and less about the cruel facts.
But restaurant down the street - just say the prices....+READ
I agree with Ruth (above). The one slight diff would be that if you are eating at Michael Mina you are not price conscious so if the meals on special are in line with the other meals then only mentioning prices that are not in line seems reasonable. Going to a special meal should allow for more experience and less about the cruel facts.
But restaurant down the street - just say the prices. Nobody's sensibilities are roughed up with knowing the price of a meal.
And about the restaurant where the servers write the menu on the table? They do this for each new patron? How maddening for the server! Has the owner ever heard of paper? A specials board? If a server has to repeat over 4 specials the "specialness" is lost in the shuffle.-COLLAPSE
Oh Ruth! I agree on every point.
I am the customer, I am not a detective and most certainly do not expect that the responsibility to facilitate the sale falls squarely on my plate.
Also, I've found that stating the cost of the specials is commonplace and handled aptly by professional servers. Whether a special falls predictably in the higher end of the entree price range, surprisingly at the...+READ
Oh Ruth! I agree on every point.
I am the customer, I am not a detective and most certainly do not expect that the responsibility to facilitate the sale falls squarely on my plate.
Also, I've found that stating the cost of the specials is commonplace and handled aptly by professional servers. Whether a special falls predictably in the higher end of the entree price range, surprisingly at the low end or well above the usual cost, it is just not that difficult for my server to mention it when she describes the dish.-COLLAPSE
That's it, you people got me mad!
Yes, Diner does write down the menu on the paper table cloth in front of you, but one thing you failed to mention is that they always point out if one item is "out of the ordinary price range.This is usually the case with the night's steak selection, and you are always told how much it costs.
Diner is NOT pretentious. It is the opposite of. It's a really...+READ
That's it, you people got me mad!
Yes, Diner does write down the menu on the paper table cloth in front of you, but one thing you failed to mention is that they always point out if one item is "out of the ordinary price range.This is usually the case with the night's steak selection, and you are always told how much it costs.
Diner is NOT pretentious. It is the opposite of. It's a really comfortable, casual, neighborhood place that serves incredible food. I, for one, enjoy showing up in jeans and a ratty tshirt for dinner on a Saturday night and still eating some of the best food being served in New York, without raising eyebrows of other diners with my outfit. Everyone who works there is incredibly nice, very quick to explain the dishes and answer questions. I'm sure if you asked they would write down the prices alongside the dish names.
Frankly, I'm glad you all hate it. Maybe now you'll stop bringing your parents visiting from Long Island who order their steak well done and I can go on the weekend more often. I'm not affiliated with this place in any business sense AT ALL but this perception of it offends me.-COLLAPSE
"...mentioning prices is “tacky.” If the customer wants to know, it’s his or her responsibility to ask."
Well, I think it's tacky to force the customer to ask, which just brings attention to the fact that prices are being discussed. I also think it's tacky for a restaurant to pretend it isn't in the business of selling food.
Someone above said that people should be prepared for prices of...+READ
"...mentioning prices is “tacky.” If the customer wants to know, it’s his or her responsibility to ask."
Well, I think it's tacky to force the customer to ask, which just brings attention to the fact that prices are being discussed. I also think it's tacky for a restaurant to pretend it isn't in the business of selling food.
Someone above said that people should be prepared for prices of specials to be higher because they are "special." But that's not necessarily true. Sometimes -- maybe even most of the time -- a special is a special because the quantity is limited and/or the chef bought something s/he doesn't usually buy (seasonal, intermittently available like a lot of seafood, wholesaler was offering a deal, etc.). I remember once ordering a special that I had assumed would be expensive and then finding out when I got the bill that it wasn't more than other items on the menu. I wondered how many people didn't order it because it sounded more expensive than it was.-COLLAPSE
Can we have a show of hands here? Does ANYONE think it's okay to omit the prices of specials? And if you do, do you think it's okay to make the customer ask the price of every one?
The more I think about this, the less I understand it. Remember way back when high -end restaurants had a WOMEN'S MENU that tactfully omitted prices and a MEN'S MENU that manfully stated them? *shudders* It was always questionable how "romantic" it really was to order blindly knowing someone else would be picking up the tab for you, no matter how much it turned out to be - it always seemed deeply...+READ
The more I think about this, the less I understand it. Remember way back when high -end restaurants had a WOMEN'S MENU that tactfully omitted prices and a MEN'S MENU that manfully stated them? *shudders* It was always questionable how "romantic" it really was to order blindly knowing someone else would be picking up the tab for you, no matter how much it turned out to be - it always seemed deeply sleazy to me. Giving all the diners a women's menu hardly seems like a step forward to me on any level.-COLLAPSE
Beevod, I disagree. If you ask the price, you may still decide that it's what you want and order it. I would much rather know the price up front than finding out at the end. On the other hand, if you don't know the price, order, and find out that it's twice the price of regular entrees, it can make you feel like you've been ripped off. Or there could be the situations described by niblet.
For those who do not understand how it can be embarrassing for a diner to ask for the prices on specials, I can cite two recent examples. Both examples, to me, are proof that the server takes advantage of such a situation to dramatically increase the check, and I find it despicable.
Example 1: a group of girlfriends on a birthday dinner. They know it's a birthday celebration because that's how...+READ
For those who do not understand how it can be embarrassing for a diner to ask for the prices on specials, I can cite two recent examples. Both examples, to me, are proof that the server takes advantage of such a situation to dramatically increase the check, and I find it despicable.
Example 1: a group of girlfriends on a birthday dinner. They know it's a birthday celebration because that's how the reservation was made. It would potentially make the guest of honor feel like she had to watch what she ordered if someone asked the server the prices of each recited special. As we are all long-term friends, I did this anyway, and we found much of the pricing to be twice the normal range. And I had to ask after each and every special; he wouldn't relent and name the price for each automatically.
Example 2: a business dinner, hosted by the principals of a company that recently took over the small company I work for. Inappropriate for me to ask prices, as I'm not the host and I'm still trying to feel things out. Yet awkward for me, and potentially embarrassing if I inadvertently order a $45-$50 entree when others ordered dishes in the $20-30 range. Ex: rack of lamb: the price could be anything, it's one of those dishes that you just don't know where they'll price it. And you shouldn't have to stay "safe" and not order what you want because the server/establishment deliberately withholds information from you.
I'm on a mission to correct this and I always ask for prices, however there are some situtations that make it very awkward indeed.-COLLAPSE
Dinner: If you have to ask the price, you can't digest it.
As much as it might be a romantic idea not to think about prices while dining, the romance can come to an abrupt halt if there are unpleasant surprises on the bill.
While the consensus here is split about how comfortable people feel asking for prices, no one here seems to be supportive of secret special pricing. One would hope that restaurant owners would notice that no one feels that naming the...+READ
As much as it might be a romantic idea not to think about prices while dining, the romance can come to an abrupt halt if there are unpleasant surprises on the bill.
While the consensus here is split about how comfortable people feel asking for prices, no one here seems to be supportive of secret special pricing. One would hope that restaurant owners would notice that no one feels that naming the price ruins the atmosphere, but plenty of people object to not being told what they are spending.-COLLAPSE
what the chef *thinks (not things. haha)
"It's just nice to make these situations easier for those who DO care."
Exactly, graffitipassion. it takes all types and it isn't even necessarily about affordability so much as comfort and predictability; if i'm ordering in a particular price range then i'll have certain expectations. what the chef things a dish is worth just is important because, for the most part, we live in modern,...+READ
"It's just nice to make these situations easier for those who DO care."
Exactly, graffitipassion. it takes all types and it isn't even necessarily about affordability so much as comfort and predictability; if i'm ordering in a particular price range then i'll have certain expectations. what the chef things a dish is worth just is important because, for the most part, we live in modern, capitalist societies where monetary value is an information marker.
they're called Specials for good reason: price is a helpful clue to the taste and quality of a dish. if you know it, you're more likely to know when to ask about the what, where, why, and find out about what is unique enough to warrant the price jump/s.
it can make a genuine difference to my experience of a meal, if you're interested in more than just a chomp 'n run. as i expect most here are. more so in recession times when a meal out is probably rarer and folks tend to want to feel taken care of, in all senses --
harder to get that feeling when you're deliberately left guessing by a restaurant. businesses lose a lot of repeat custom for just that reason, though people tend not to verbalise it so much. uncertainty and ambiguity is not a quality i admire in a restaurant.-COLLAPSE
I feel the same way about this as I do any establishment that doesn't post prices, be it clothing, jewelry or anything else. I often won't ask because I assume the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" and consequentially I don't buy (even if it were to turn out it wasn't all that out of my price range).
I'm a *little* more likely to ask about food prices, but definitely not in certain...+READ
I feel the same way about this as I do any establishment that doesn't post prices, be it clothing, jewelry or anything else. I often won't ask because I assume the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" and consequentially I don't buy (even if it were to turn out it wasn't all that out of my price range).
I'm a *little* more likely to ask about food prices, but definitely not in certain situations. And if i'm being treated, i'm veering away from specials, having been in a situation where i'd inadvertantly ordered a way too pricey dish on someone else's budget. As someone else has already said, a dish that's not-so-special in ingredients or variation from the regular menu, can end up costing way more.
And people should be able to decide, if that's a factor. Eg I like the sound of two halibut dishes equally, one is a special. I might want to know if i'm paying $20 more for one than the other.-COLLAPSE
Phil W - It's hard to disagree with other people's feelings. Feelings are what they are and everyone is entitled to feel that way in whatever situation.
I've felt embarrassed before after having to ask the price of SEVERAL specials. When you are trying to figure out what you want, and you keep making it clear money is an issue to you, you can begin to feel slightly out of place.
Some people...+READ
Phil W - It's hard to disagree with other people's feelings. Feelings are what they are and everyone is entitled to feel that way in whatever situation.
I've felt embarrassed before after having to ask the price of SEVERAL specials. When you are trying to figure out what you want, and you keep making it clear money is an issue to you, you can begin to feel slightly out of place.
Some people feel awkward in these situations, and some don't. It's just nice to make these situations easier for those who DO care.-COLLAPSE
"inquiring about the price is mildly humiliating for the customer, akin to requesting tap rather than bottled water"
I disagree. One should never feel any hesitation in asking "....and what is the price of the swordfish meatloaf with onion marmalade this evening?" or in stating "tap water is sufficient".
I'm really a bit baffled as to why anyone would care. I doubt the waiters go back to the...+READ
"inquiring about the price is mildly humiliating for the customer, akin to requesting tap rather than bottled water"
I disagree. One should never feel any hesitation in asking "....and what is the price of the swordfish meatloaf with onion marmalade this evening?" or in stating "tap water is sufficient".
I'm really a bit baffled as to why anyone would care. I doubt the waiters go back to the kitchen and gossip about table 12 who asked how much is the quail sashimi app.....and can you believe he asked for water that comes out of the wall...from the city....what a rube.....we should spit in his oysters......I'm quit - this restaurant and its budget diners are beneath me.-COLLAPSE
We had a bit of a shock last year at one of our favorite local restaurants - a small, independent, Italian place. Most of the apps are priced in the $7-10 range, entrees were $15-20. One of the night's specials was a gnocchi appetizer: no seafood, no filet, no special imported cheeses (alas, I can't remember what it DID have!). The server didn't provide prices for any of the specials, and we...+READ
We had a bit of a shock last year at one of our favorite local restaurants - a small, independent, Italian place. Most of the apps are priced in the $7-10 range, entrees were $15-20. One of the night's specials was a gnocchi appetizer: no seafood, no filet, no special imported cheeses (alas, I can't remember what it DID have!). The server didn't provide prices for any of the specials, and we didn't ask when we ordered the gnocchi. It was $15 - the same price as the gnocchi entree, but about half the portion size. Good thing it was tasty! We learned our lesson and will always ask for prices if we decide to order a special.-COLLAPSE
With a recession (depression, whatever term you prefer) on and so many restaurants struggling, even closing, why do places like Diner insist on making it harder for budget-conscious patrons whose only crime is wanting to know how much their meal (and in turn, the tip) will cost? Just post the darn prices already!
We no longer live in a world where decent restaurants are patronized only by wealthy men, where "ladies" menu's are common, where food costs are relatively low, where kitchen and waithelp are staffed by poor immigrants who work for almost nothing, and government imposed costs are negligible.
Eating out is not cheap compared to our wages, at least not for most of us. Just as posted prices are...+READ
We no longer live in a world where decent restaurants are patronized only by wealthy men, where "ladies" menu's are common, where food costs are relatively low, where kitchen and waithelp are staffed by poor immigrants who work for almost nothing, and government imposed costs are negligible.
Eating out is not cheap compared to our wages, at least not for most of us. Just as posted prices are required in most states for any alcoholic beverages, they should be required in restaurants for food.-COLLAPSE
Diner was precisely the example that came to mind when I saw this headline. And yes, the "soothing" experience of having that server cozy up in your booth to write one-word descriptions of each mysteriously priced special often veers into pretentious territory. Thanks for highlighting this frustrating quirk.
Diner was pleasantly affordable up until about 3 years ago. I applaud the way they...+READ
Diner was precisely the example that came to mind when I saw this headline. And yes, the "soothing" experience of having that server cozy up in your booth to write one-word descriptions of each mysteriously priced special often veers into pretentious territory. Thanks for highlighting this frustrating quirk.
Diner was pleasantly affordable up until about 3 years ago. I applaud the way they embraced responsible end-to-end ingredient sourcing long before many NYC restaurants caught on, but there are significant costs associated with doing so, and their menu prices quietly shot skywards. If an entree is going to cost significantly more than $20 at such a casual establishment, it's deceptive to hide such prices from customers until the check arrives.
The food is often well worth it, and they're obviously not driving away clientele in this ever-gentrifying neighborhood, but having to constantly inquire about prices actually detracts from the "romance" between me and all those elusive-but-adorable hipster servers.-COLLAPSE
The people consulted for this (the restaurant owner, the consultant) are absolute twits. Maybe it's hard for customers to ask the price b/c of nitwits like these. I'm going out for a meal, not to play mind games. And if it's "tacky" to mention prices, why not just print an entire menu with no prices at all?
Bottom line: if the money is coming out of my wallet, you bet I'll ask for the price of...+READ
The people consulted for this (the restaurant owner, the consultant) are absolute twits. Maybe it's hard for customers to ask the price b/c of nitwits like these. I'm going out for a meal, not to play mind games. And if it's "tacky" to mention prices, why not just print an entire menu with no prices at all?
Bottom line: if the money is coming out of my wallet, you bet I'll ask for the price of any specials.-COLLAPSE
A good server should know how to tell you the price without embarrasment. Something as simple as "the chef is offering a special rockfish grilled with a chardonney, capers and olives for $24.95."
As for tap water, I've never been embarrased to just ask for Chez Municipal.
ratgirlagogo: right on. Also, what's this about clocks? What do clocks have to do with the subject at hand? Also, what's this about rep? Sorry, Diner, but not being an NYer, I don't know your rep or what prices to expect, and if I came in and didn't see any, I'd leave—you know the old "if you have to ask you can't afford it" adage. Interesting business model. Sure to attract all the most annoying...+READ
ratgirlagogo: right on. Also, what's this about clocks? What do clocks have to do with the subject at hand? Also, what's this about rep? Sorry, Diner, but not being an NYer, I don't know your rep or what prices to expect, and if I came in and didn't see any, I'd leave—you know the old "if you have to ask you can't afford it" adage. Interesting business model. Sure to attract all the most annoying people on earth and no one else.
Sanjacinto: before people became aware that water bottles themselves were not ecofriendly, they'd order bottled water—which, of course, meant paying for water, while the plebeians among us stuck with the city's finest.-COLLAPSE
"But inquiring about the price is mildly humiliating for the customer, akin to requesting tap rather than bottled water (before the former became the ecoconscious choice)."
Whaaa...? What's all this about water? It's news to me...
“It’s a romantic notion of taking numbers and clocks out of [the dining experience],” he says.
I'm so romantic and 19th century myself that I don't believe in having anything so bourgeois as money enter into my dining experience. It's soothing to know that when I eat there and don't pay no one will actually discuss it. Allons - y!