The Four Worst Restaurant Etiquette Gaffes

I tip 20% of the pre-tax total for decent to good service. Waitstaff I am watching your boredom and condescension carefully. Please don't display it and your tips will be good. I agree that bringing wine into a restaurant should be about a very special wine perhaps for a special occasion. Pay corkage (or tip your server extra) and be gracious about it. It should not be a regular habit to bring...+READ

I tip 20% of the pre-tax total for decent to good service. Waitstaff I am watching your boredom and condescension carefully. Please don't display it and your tips will be good. I agree that bringing wine into a restaurant should be about a very special wine perhaps for a special occasion. Pay corkage (or tip your server extra) and be gracious about it. It should not be a regular habit to bring your own wine.-COLLAPSE

By farmandforage on January 13, 2012 08:44 PM

Thanks for the article, Helen. As a restaurant manager I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. May I add that if you are bringing your own wine, it is polite to call ahead and find out if the restaurant has the wine you are planning on bringing on their list, and gauche to bring in a bottle that they do carry. Save that bottle for another occasion.

In addition to canceling reservations...+READ

Thanks for the article, Helen. As a restaurant manager I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. May I add that if you are bringing your own wine, it is polite to call ahead and find out if the restaurant has the wine you are planning on bringing on their list, and gauche to bring in a bottle that they do carry. Save that bottle for another occasion.

In addition to canceling reservations you won't be able to attend, please make a reservation if you are planning to come. We are happy to accommodate walk-ins if we are able, but a reservation does more than guarantee you a table. It allows us to plan ahead. When we can accurately predict the number of guests we will have, we can plan to have the product and staff we will need for the evening. We are operating businesses with razor thin profit margins, and won't bring in more perishable food and costly labor than we think we will need. If you choose not to call ahead, please don't complain when we can't seat you right away or when we've run out of your favorite dish.-COLLAPSE

By jerpeck on January 9, 2012 10:16 PM

Don't expect a tip from everyone , some places its rude to leave a tip , don't expect it from everyone as it may not be in their culture, if you paid your staff right then no need to tip! Australia and New Zealand Round up taxi fares and restaurant bills to nearest dollar.
Austria Service charges generally included in bill.
Britain and Ireland Service charges usually included in restaurant...+READ

Don't expect a tip from everyone , some places its rude to leave a tip , don't expect it from everyone as it may not be in their culture, if you paid your staff right then no need to tip! Australia and New Zealand Round up taxi fares and restaurant bills to nearest dollar.
Austria Service charges generally included in bill.
Britain and Ireland Service charges usually included in restaurant bills; otherwise, standard U.S. tipping rules apply.
China and North Korea Tipping is illegal.
Czech Republic Round up the bill to nearest koruna.
France and Germany Service charges generally applied to bills; customary to add 5 percent extra.
Hong Kong Tipping is common--about 10 percent in most situations--even when a service charge has already been applied.
Hungary 10 percent tip is customary.
Indonesia Service charges are usually included in bill.
Israel Restaurants and hotels typically add 10 percent service charge to bills; otherwise, tipping not expected.
Italy Tipping is customary, about 10 percent, even when a service charge is already included.
Japan Tips are usually included in hotel and restaurant bills; otherwise, tipping is not expected.
Malaysia Tipping is expected for porters and room service.
Mexico Tipping is customary, about 10 to 15 percent. Service charges rarely applied.
Philippines 10 percent tip is common for most services.
South Korea Tipping is not expected.-COLLAPSE

By fatsam on January 9, 2012 12:17 PM

funny! i'm going to wait to read this helen person's credentials until after i've stopped laughing at her version of the (in booming echo voice) Four Worst Restaurant Etiquette Gaffes... having worked in almost every capacity in a restaurant including having managed a few, the one she listed first would only make the list if it were a party of 8 or more. everything else is just another table, but...+READ

funny! i'm going to wait to read this helen person's credentials until after i've stopped laughing at her version of the (in booming echo voice) Four Worst Restaurant Etiquette Gaffes... having worked in almost every capacity in a restaurant including having managed a few, the one she listed first would only make the list if it were a party of 8 or more. everything else is just another table, but a large party requires setup and sometimes staffing considerations. if it's a reservation for 4 at 8pm on a saturday, i'm not gonna sweat it, you should if you're more than a minute late.

the byo thing is such a non-issue i don't know why she would even mention that, or a sommelier for that matter. the percentage of restaurants that allow byob and/or have sommeliers on duty is so small that who cares if somebody brings in a bottle of wine that they have to wait to drink at home?? something more relevant would be understanding what kind of restaurant you're going to. for example...might not be a good idea to take a vegetarian to a steakhouse, or someone who doesn't like spicy food to an indian restaurant. sure, the kitchen can make substitutions but they can't work miracles.

on that note, please complain. as your host, my job is to give you what you want...within reason. if i screwed it up, i want to fix it, and if i don't, i deserve to read about it in the local paper.

it also isn't (or shouldn't be) a problem if you are very particular about how you want your food...no this, extra that, put that on the side, can i substitute this instead of that... the only problem with that is that recipes are developed and tested and tweaked and show up on the menu with certain specific parameters for a reason. when you mess with that balance, it's not always going to come out the way the chef intended and now it becomes your responsibility, to a degree, whether or not the dish is going to be satisfactory. rather than remake an item, find something else or go home and cook for yourself.

kudos to the person who mentioned controlling the kids...on more than one occasion i've had to bite my lip to avoid having the guests see me beaming while little johnny is bawling because he fell and hit his brick head on the stone tile because his parents thought it was cute that he was running laps in the restaurant during the dinner rush. i didn't even offer to take him into the kitchen for a tour of our deep fryers.

patrons of restaurants don't really realize how fortunate they are that almost all restaurant workers consider themselves professionals and take pride in their work and their workplace. sometimes that's the only thing that keeps their food from being...mutilated, shall we say, before it arrives at the table. whistling is good for dogs, not your bartender or server. yes, you are dining out and deserve excellent service but the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves about 150 years ago. and i don't care how much money you have, make, intend on spending or setting on fire, obnoxious asshats will be asked to leave. it's my party and there's a one idiot maximum.

this from a person who's spent plenty of time serving and being served. i've found that it's just as important to be a good guest as it is to be a good host. when everybody remembers that, chances are everybody is going to have a good time.-COLLAPSE

By misterchi on January 9, 2012 11:49 AM

I've witnessed lovely people arriving at an exclusive restaurant becoming overwhelming intoxicated, in an ugly almost vomitting at the table way... just because there are beautiful wines etc. doesn't mean you have to have all of them. i would say a lack of self control is a major restaurant gaffe.
p.s. to the person who thinks the waiters are there for us and restaurant manners don't matter,...+READ

I've witnessed lovely people arriving at an exclusive restaurant becoming overwhelming intoxicated, in an ugly almost vomitting at the table way... just because there are beautiful wines etc. doesn't mean you have to have all of them. i would say a lack of self control is a major restaurant gaffe.
p.s. to the person who thinks the waiters are there for us and restaurant manners don't matter, what do they do for a living? don't they expect any courtesy from their clients?-COLLAPSE

By dcortara on January 5, 2012 09:55 AM

Well said, Fedelia!

By cpeterpan on January 4, 2012 09:02 PM

Oh, the whining. Does it ever end?

1. If you like the service, leave a ten- or twenty-spot or whatever you feel best reflects your pleasure. Bothering about whether you're tipping on food and not tax or on the tax and the bathroom or WHATEVER is just childish. Who cares? Tip and be done with it, and be glad if you have a professional job where your salary doesn't depend on people braying over...+READ

Oh, the whining. Does it ever end?

1. If you like the service, leave a ten- or twenty-spot or whatever you feel best reflects your pleasure. Bothering about whether you're tipping on food and not tax or on the tax and the bathroom or WHATEVER is just childish. Who cares? Tip and be done with it, and be glad if you have a professional job where your salary doesn't depend on people braying over paying you 15 cents too much.

2. If you need something cooked in a special way, unless it's a prix fixe menu, ask for it. It has nothing to do with your feeling like you're better than everyone else, as one commenter here whined. You don't want butter? Politely ask to have it left off. That's it. And if you get an eyeroll, don't go back. As a former server and head wait, I can say with authority that most people DON'T ask for special arrangements, and a good management team will let the waitstaff know that special requests aren't a big deal. Those who complain about it need to get off their high horse, and certainly don't have a flexible enough ego to be part of a restaurant, high class or otherwise.

4. @FibroLady: speak for yourself. Paying taxes is patriotic, and makes possible food safety standards, safe workplace environments, clean water, and all the other things your hated government delivers.

3. Finally, shut the kids up. The precious darlings mean nothing to the rest of us, and your shoving them down everyone's throat - better yet, using them to prove your own self worth and to get our approval - is pathetic. Get a spine, get a clue, and get a babysitter.

And be sure to tip him or her well, too.-COLLAPSE

By Fedelia on January 4, 2012 04:14 PM

Since when did impressing the waitstaff at a restaurant become the objective for dining out? I go there to eat and be merry with friends, I could care less what they think....

By boobies on April 4, 2011 01:37 PM

1. Dont call to cancle. its their job to fix the problem
2. Just bring your own wine, and pour it yourself
3. good,
4. Always compleain online on a website, i have seen restuant owners make a fake profiles and put up fake comments to make thier place look better, if they do that, go back and make more fake profiles so you can make their restuant look bad again.

By ShitMuffin on September 29, 2010 12:35 PM

No offense but this list is altogether silly. Two of the so-called four "Worst Restaurant Etiquette Gaffes" have only to do with wine. Not everyone even drinks wine or knows the first thing about it, in other words, we aren't all wine snobs and that should not be reflected in a list such as this. And the last "gaffe" doesn't even have anything to do with etiquette while in the restaurant. This is...+READ

No offense but this list is altogether silly. Two of the so-called four "Worst Restaurant Etiquette Gaffes" have only to do with wine. Not everyone even drinks wine or knows the first thing about it, in other words, we aren't all wine snobs and that should not be reflected in a list such as this. And the last "gaffe" doesn't even have anything to do with etiquette while in the restaurant. This is a poorly thought out list.-COLLAPSE

By ScribJelly on July 17, 2010 05:32 PM

h2Bn: I happen to be lucky enough to work in an establishment with a highly diverse staff. Blacks, Mexicans, Iranians, Egyptians, Ecuadorians, El Salvadorans, Whites, Colombians... and so on. To a man (and woman) we will all tell you that yes, there are in fact racial tipping tendencies. We will also tell you that there are RELIGIOUS tipping tendencies, NATIONAL tipping tendencies (Aussies. Great...+READ

h2Bn: I happen to be lucky enough to work in an establishment with a highly diverse staff. Blacks, Mexicans, Iranians, Egyptians, Ecuadorians, El Salvadorans, Whites, Colombians... and so on. To a man (and woman) we will all tell you that yes, there are in fact racial tipping tendencies. We will also tell you that there are RELIGIOUS tipping tendencies, NATIONAL tipping tendencies (Aussies. Great guests... horrid tippers), GENDER tendencies, and so on. There's nothing wrong with that unless you have a terrible server that values their monetary gain over proper service. I strive to give every guest the best experience I possibly can, regardless of what they may look like, where they're from, or what language they speak. Point of fact the first really good tip I ever received was from a group of Mexicans that spoke as much English as I do Spanish (which is to say, VERY little). If I'd written them off I might have missed out on an excellent tip, and instead I walked away with a valuable lesson learned very early in my serving career.

To pretend we don't have tendencies within any group we may define ourselves as being in is disingenuous (hope that sentence made sense...). We should all recognize and celebrate our differences rather than pretend they don't exist. So black people have a rep for not tipping. Who cares? I've never had a table of black guests sit there for an hour and a half after they paid out like a seeming majority of well-tipping white guests do. Japanese people may not tip for crap, but they really ARE that nice and I'll take a dozen tables of Japanese (or Australians) over some stuck-up snooty tinned-tan rich white women any day of the week.

Like I said, I try to give my guests the best experience possible regardless of race, age, gender, religion, point of origin, or anything else. I'm in the hospitality business, and doing any less is simply not doing my job.-COLLAPSE

By infinitewinter on June 22, 2010 02:13 AM

Here in Ontario our combined sales tax is 13% and a little higher on alcohol. We just add up the sales taxes to figure the minimum tip or double the tax for good service. Depending on your tax rate, you can easily double or triple the tax for a quick tip figure.

By firehouse on April 10, 2010 03:33 PM

In Pennsylvania for example with a 6% tax, on a $100 pre-tax check, a 20% (typical) tip on the tax would be a whopping $1.20. $20 versus $21.20 isn't really worth my time fussing over and I usually just round up a dollar or so anyway. If someone is routinely tipping 30% on food/drink, which is well above average, they are tipping way more than me tipping 20% including tax. All depends on how...+READ

In Pennsylvania for example with a 6% tax, on a $100 pre-tax check, a 20% (typical) tip on the tax would be a whopping $1.20. $20 versus $21.20 isn't really worth my time fussing over and I usually just round up a dollar or so anyway. If someone is routinely tipping 30% on food/drink, which is well above average, they are tipping way more than me tipping 20% including tax. All depends on how folks want to look at it.-COLLAPSE

By RC51Mike on April 5, 2010 04:57 AM

BTW, when I said I tip on the food? I meant the food AND beverages. Everything on the bill EXCEPT the tax. And, when the waiter 'slips' us extras, I tip extra for that, even if it's NOT on the tab. Just wanted to clarify.

By FibroLady on April 2, 2010 09:32 AM

I spent many years as a waitress, but I still rebel against tipping on the tax. I won't do it. I tip on the food, and tip well. Most of us dislike being taxed to begin with, although we understand it's sure not the restaurant's choice to tax us. Still, tipping on the tax just seems wrong. I normally tip 30% on the FOOD only. I don't understand the thinking behind tipping on the tax. The server...+READ

I spent many years as a waitress, but I still rebel against tipping on the tax. I won't do it. I tip on the food, and tip well. Most of us dislike being taxed to begin with, although we understand it's sure not the restaurant's choice to tax us. Still, tipping on the tax just seems wrong. I normally tip 30% on the FOOD only. I don't understand the thinking behind tipping on the tax. The server didn't do any extra work to earn a tip on the tax. What's that about, anyway?-COLLAPSE

By FibroLady on April 2, 2010 09:29 AM

ai....

By xiaopywsp on April 2, 2010 12:07 AM

I won't argue with anything you've said but consider that the waiter might have been surprised you tipped based on the total, not the balance after the gift certificate. I've read innumerable food discussions of people who tip pocket change on $100+ meals, tip on the balance of a gift certificate, nickle and dime over tipping on pre-tax bill rather than total, tip one rate for food and another...+READ

I won't argue with anything you've said but consider that the waiter might have been surprised you tipped based on the total, not the balance after the gift certificate. I've read innumerable food discussions of people who tip pocket change on $100+ meals, tip on the balance of a gift certificate, nickle and dime over tipping on pre-tax bill rather than total, tip one rate for food and another for drinks on the same bill. There's no end to how cheapskates think. I've had waitstaff respond in a similar, if not quite as exhuberant fashion, because I tipped well at an establishment where apparently they aren't used to being tipped well for excellent service, or in one case where my mother caused a bit of a scene and they went overboard to be accommodating. Sometimes it's nice to feel your thoughtfulness in tipping is acknowledged and not taken for granted or expected without commensurate service.-COLLAPSE

By RC51Mike on March 26, 2010 10:48 AM

I'm reading the conclusions of that Cornell "study" and just not believing it. It is so offensive and cockeyed. Black restaurant patrons ARE as aware as others of the the standard for 15%-20% tipping range. THIS is the problem:

"waiters don't want to serve black customers. When they do, waiters often deliver poor service believing their tip will be poor. And black customers believe they are...+READ

I'm reading the conclusions of that Cornell "study" and just not believing it. It is so offensive and cockeyed. Black restaurant patrons ARE as aware as others of the the standard for 15%-20% tipping range. THIS is the problem:

"waiters don't want to serve black customers. When they do, waiters often deliver poor service believing their tip will be poor. And black customers believe they are getting inferior service because of their race." Prophecy fulfilled?

Black diners are not stupid. Some are lousy tippers, some are not.

I was born in the 50s. My parents taught us to tip 10% for lunch (that was standard back then) and 20% for dinner. We were taught that tipping is as much a part of the bill as anything else. Just about every other Black family I know got the same lessons, as many families' income were rooted in tip-dependent service jobs. We as a whole respect tips. This lessons came from a generation who were often expected to go to a hole in the wall on the side of a building to pick up their food. And not because they were bad tippers.

Based on what I read in these forums, just about every group of people can be labeled as bad tippers if the focus is their. To ascribe "tipping habits" based on race is so ridiculous. Very often Black diners ARE treated differently by wait staff.

Many years ago, I won first prize in a contest and was awarded a $75 gift certificate to Mark's Place, at the time one of Miami's most celebrated restaurants of nouvelle cuisine. My husband and I made and kept our reservation. We expected to be stared at by other diners as we walked across to room to our table, and they did not disappoint. Our meal exceeded the $75, as we knew it would, even though my husband's fish was overcooked . When we paid (cash), my husband tipped 20% on the entire bill, including the gift certificate. It took quite a while for the waiter to get back to us, even after hubs caught his eye and beckoned him, so we left the money on the table. As we waited for our car, our waiter burst through the front door and profusely thanked us for his tip. I think he thought we'd be happy, but it was really embarrassing. I could not help wonder what the other diners were thinking when he ran out after us. My DH asked him if he often did that, and he stammered something and apologized. I wanted to snatch half that tip out of his pocket. He was clearly surprised. He'd already assumed we would not tip.-COLLAPSE

By h2Bn on March 26, 2010 02:24 AM

Those are the worst? Guess I don't get out enough.
1 Don't make a scene. You're in a public place with others who are also trying to enjoy a night out.
2 Don't demand that food be prepared in some specific fashion just because you want to feel important. It may be an insult to the chef. The chef is not your personal home cook. If you want that treatment, hire one. And, the waitstaff are not...+READ

Those are the worst? Guess I don't get out enough.
1 Don't make a scene. You're in a public place with others who are also trying to enjoy a night out.
2 Don't demand that food be prepared in some specific fashion just because you want to feel important. It may be an insult to the chef. The chef is not your personal home cook. If you want that treatment, hire one. And, the waitstaff are not indentured servants.
3. Don't expect special treatment if it is at the expense of other customers. You're no better than them, regardless of what you may think.
4. Same as number 4 above. I'll forgive a waitstaff or kitchen mistake if the manager makes it right. If the management doesn't care, I'll never go back. I look for this insight in a review. If the reviewer was unhappy and doesnt' report their experience dealing with the manager, the review holds little value. Don't expect restaurant owners to get feedback from reading food forums. Tell them yourselves and be as objective as possible. Sometimes I'll email them later and have gotten some very positive responses.-COLLAPSE

By RC51Mike on March 23, 2010 04:17 PM

In regard to offering your waitstaff a taste of a special bottle, we do this all the time and have never had the house object. This is most often done with somthing special that they may not have tasted before. they often have a great appriciation for wine and if the house has a rule agains it they may decline.

By Lauracooks on March 23, 2010 01:08 PM

I don't understand doubling the tax to tip now, nor did I 15 years ago when I was waiting tables. Tax rates are set by localities so I guess @bigjeff just automatically tips more when dining in NYC than in MD regardless of the service. That seems nuts. I am a "figure 10%" and then double it (for 20%) or 1.5 it (for 15%) and so on, based on service. I guess those folks leave no tip in Delaware...+READ

I don't understand doubling the tax to tip now, nor did I 15 years ago when I was waiting tables. Tax rates are set by localities so I guess @bigjeff just automatically tips more when dining in NYC than in MD regardless of the service. That seems nuts. I am a "figure 10%" and then double it (for 20%) or 1.5 it (for 15%) and so on, based on service. I guess those folks leave no tip in Delaware where the tax rate is 0%.-COLLAPSE

By ellekasey on March 21, 2010 01:52 PM

so which restaurant does Helena work or own or she is so partial to that the only etiquette she thinks about is to favor owners

By bombayhut on March 21, 2010 10:32 AM

Much of this is restaurant preference, not etiquette. Bad form to bring more than two bottles and pay the corkage? Not at all. If the restaurant has such a policy, no problem--it can adopt any (legal) policy it pleases and if I don't like it I can go elsewhere. But don't try to guilt me into buying your wine by telling me I'm being rude. Is it a breach of etiquette to charge $60 for a bottle of...+READ

Much of this is restaurant preference, not etiquette. Bad form to bring more than two bottles and pay the corkage? Not at all. If the restaurant has such a policy, no problem--it can adopt any (legal) policy it pleases and if I don't like it I can go elsewhere. But don't try to guilt me into buying your wine by telling me I'm being rude. Is it a breach of etiquette to charge $60 for a bottle of wine I can buy retail for $16? No, it's a business decision.-COLLAPSE

By Cechitoff on March 20, 2010 07:59 PM

we had a table of 10 in a vietnamese restaurant (not fine dining) and got a big bill with weird math that didn't make sense. we asked our server (who bought the check to us) if tip was included (due to our size) and he said no. so then we were about to add on double the tax (8.75%) but it just seemed so high; we calculated again because the numbers didn't make sense, took our bill to the manager...+READ

we had a table of 10 in a vietnamese restaurant (not fine dining) and got a big bill with weird math that didn't make sense. we asked our server (who bought the check to us) if tip was included (due to our size) and he said no. so then we were about to add on double the tax (8.75%) but it just seemed so high; we calculated again because the numbers didn't make sense, took our bill to the manager and he explained that indeed, tip was included. we told him that our server said otherwise. we are never going back.-COLLAPSE

By bigjeff on March 19, 2010 07:28 PM

So you're saying servers can't do math? Why would you tip on tax again? So that you could pay more to a server in Minneapolis than in Edina?

By 3foodies on March 18, 2010 08:25 PM

I disagree...most diners do not feel the owner or management check-ins intrusive and un called for. You need to read the table but As an owner...I make a point to talk to almost every guest...it send a very clear message that we care, want to know you and want you to comer back.

And the chains that have their managers billed as "owners"..."I'm the owner...can I help you?"...from an Outback.???...+READ

I disagree...most diners do not feel the owner or management check-ins intrusive and un called for. You need to read the table but As an owner...I make a point to talk to almost every guest...it send a very clear message that we care, want to know you and want you to comer back.

And the chains that have their managers billed as "owners"..."I'm the owner...can I help you?"...from an Outback.??? Sure dude ...you are 24 ...I am amazed at your success...

An "owner" takes his retirement fund, kids college money and 2 maxed out credit cards... gambles it on a run down storefront, has a real personality and some cooking skill and makes it grow...


chains...almost all chain execs would sell mufflers if they could make more money at it...and they have a specific percentage of complaints they will accept as part of doing business...they are gross, overblown, carbon burning machines selling pre made food to an uneducated customer base that does not know the difference...
does anyone really think there is a difference between TGIF, Applebees, Red Robin, Texas Rioad House etc etc etc...thery remind me of the big biox drug stores ...anyone notice they all have their entrances on the corner...all designed to suck you in and pull money from your pocket...for the least amount of effort and a quality level measured in what you will accpet without complaining...there was and is no human creativity in a chain environment...you can;t afford it.

...I feel better...

If an owner is around...
It means if something is good you can tell me...and if something is wrong...the same thing.

For someone to drop $300 on a meal...I expect the owner to be proud enough to stand behind the cost and what was provided...and they should know how to approach customers...and say "Thanks"...

The number one comment i gert from our patrons is the value they see when I am in the room and when I ask them how their meal was.


The biggest issue with tiupping is that very few people have the guts to reduce the amount when something is wrong...if more people did this (my wife feels the need to tip 25% to everyone regardless of the expoerience because we are 'In the business")...results would change...

ggod tippers are the unfortunate reason the server has an entitlement emntality...

I also donlt like people with "reasons"..."I don't tip"..well don't embarrass me...

I am old...yea and driving a caddy in Florida

I once had a local customer who became famous for not tipping...so at the end of a meal...after they paid for the dinner and didn't tip...I refunded the money witha note that said to re-consider the tipping issue f or find another place to eat... Then I sent their name and phone number to all the clergy ands pastors in town notifying them that this family was destitute and is too embarassed to contact anyone for help...would they please reach out to them.

I never saw them again-COLLAPSE

By jms123 on March 15, 2010 09:25 AM

My experience is so different from the testimony of previous posters. First, at some point due to my relative prosperity, I started routinely leaving 20% tips (as opposed to 15%). I never noticed any improvement in the service I received, which is not to say that I ever had a problem with service, I thought I was always treated pretty well.

I have frequently written messages thanking them...+READ

My experience is so different from the testimony of previous posters. First, at some point due to my relative prosperity, I started routinely leaving 20% tips (as opposed to 15%). I never noticed any improvement in the service I received, which is not to say that I ever had a problem with service, I thought I was always treated pretty well.

I have frequently written messages thanking them after excellent meals or criticizing them for bad ones, and I have usually had a response, always gracious. I do post in on-line forums and I typically have been skewered by (I think) friends of the restaurant or people in the business, often for the most innocuous and factual criticisms, so not that something was too salty or cold, but that the restaurant did this or that. The irony is that I think I am the best of customers, a generous tipper, a big spender (within reason), I ask for very little, and I know people who are really, really vicious and will do far worse to a restaurant than write a nasty review.

I recently ate at a top restaurant and the service and food were lousy due to a series of mistakes and problems that no one person was responsible for. I was immediately tagged a difficult customer when I asked for the cocktail I ordered (not the one I was served, twice) and I think they actually arranged what Richard 16 described, including a visit by the owner. We felt really bad and won't be back.-COLLAPSE

By brescd01 on March 13, 2010 12:39 PM

Oh tipping. How can I resist.
I think people need to have a bit of perspective when it comes to tipping. Look at it like control. Enter the restaurant with a generous heart. If things go poorly, and it is clearly the fault of the server, then give yourself a discount. Tipping is your power.
If you ask restaurants to pay wait staff more, you take away your power.
For those concerned about tipping...+READ

Oh tipping. How can I resist.
I think people need to have a bit of perspective when it comes to tipping. Look at it like control. Enter the restaurant with a generous heart. If things go poorly, and it is clearly the fault of the server, then give yourself a discount. Tipping is your power.
If you ask restaurants to pay wait staff more, you take away your power.
For those concerned about tipping pre tax vs after tax, Do what ever you want. But please know that the server will perceive your "15% pre tax tip because why should I tip on tax" as " Gawd, I just got 10%."
After all these years I still have waiter dreams. And my section is packed.-COLLAPSE

By stayathomesommelier on March 12, 2010 03:02 PM

I donlt think many of the people on this blog have ever either worked for a restuarant...or better yet owned one...

But really...the world is at the mercy of the corporations...we have ourselves to thank...

It seems common courtesy has stepped aside...customers are being cheated by the chains...go to a local place where the owner is on site...working for you...the word "restaurant" is so...+READ

I donlt think many of the people on this blog have ever either worked for a restuarant...or better yet owned one...

But really...the world is at the mercy of the corporations...we have ourselves to thank...

It seems common courtesy has stepped aside...customers are being cheated by the chains...go to a local place where the owner is on site...working for you...the word "restaurant" is so overused...anyone with more than one place should use the term "Consumptions transfer station"...it isn;t dining and the food isn;t prep[ared...it's "re-thermed"

Bring in your own wine? sure...I accept it but the reason most people do it is to say money. Don't tell me that corckage is too much ...I base the price of everything on total sales ...and when someone askes me to foirfeit profit on the work I have done to build a menu, cellar and ambiance...they should go somewhere else (noitice I didnlt say "dine")

Not everyone is like this but I love the people who are professionals...or tradesman... charging everyone between $50 an hour and up who complian about the cost of food and service in a restaurant...running a restuarnat is more complicated than almost any business...and I mean almost anything...

Someone complianed that the entree I serve at $13 was overpriced because we dibnlty serve it with a salad and bread...well our salad isn't iceberg and cherry tomatoes...and I buy trhe bread from a local bakery...it is expensive...frankly I donlt want these people in my place...

I always thoiught reviewers were over indulged...look at the folks working the TV shows...most of them couldnl;t woirk a line on a slow night never mind a buisy one

Reviews are almost always subjective and the reason they are starting to dwindle is because reviews are related to ad revenues...the Courant has stopped...they got caught too many times. (remember the steak place in Torrington a few years ago? that started the decline)

Almost every negative review on a web page is from someone with alot more to complian about than the food and service...it's tough when they let you out for only thye evening...


I don't know...beingf nice, relizing what things cost, gratious when a mistake is made and there is an honest attempt to rectify, calling ahead and after...

my comment to today's generation..."the man" isn;t always out to screw you...learn to be nice.-COLLAPSE

By jms123 on March 9, 2010 08:59 AM

It is not a gaffe to fail to complain directly to the staff. Part of the reason one may fail to do so is that they make it difficult or impossible for you to complain. And it might be our desire to be pleasant - if only to our company - that prevents a direct face to face.

It is not "optimally productive" to simply dine-and-slam online but this is a flaw in the whole online slamming process...+READ

It is not a gaffe to fail to complain directly to the staff. Part of the reason one may fail to do so is that they make it difficult or impossible for you to complain. And it might be our desire to be pleasant - if only to our company - that prevents a direct face to face.

It is not "optimally productive" to simply dine-and-slam online but this is a flaw in the whole online slamming process itself not a failure of etiquette.

What guides a review? Are reviewers objective? Do most people have a clue as to what constitutes a good sampling methodology? And by asking that question I don't mean to suggest that I do and others don't, I'd say I might have some ideas to avoid some of the more obvious problems but is that "good sampling"? Online reviews are, by their nature, the vomiting utterances of amateurs, and we have come to wallow in that online vomit which, strangely, seems to stew up the occasional half-eaten hot dog which does the trick.

You suggest a bad online review is a horrible breech of etiquette but I could say that your list is itself a kind of bad etiquette lesson - and who is to say otherwise? You could say my comment is a kind of poor sampling - how many other articles have I read, etc - and lo! it could be so... such is the failure of this brave new digital world.-COLLAPSE

By big_fat_fig on March 6, 2010 01:45 PM

"After all, why do you go out to dinner if not to have someone wait on you? "
Jadedwaitress, that is an amazing question. Surely you go to eat high quality food that you are incapable of cooking yourself, and drinking high quality wines not in your own cellar. The waiter should be as unobtrusive as possible. Regardless of the size of the tip, the service should be impeccable if you are a...+READ

"After all, why do you go out to dinner if not to have someone wait on you? "
Jadedwaitress, that is an amazing question. Surely you go to eat high quality food that you are incapable of cooking yourself, and drinking high quality wines not in your own cellar. The waiter should be as unobtrusive as possible. Regardless of the size of the tip, the service should be impeccable if you are a professional.-COLLAPSE

By RonfromLaos on March 5, 2010 10:41 PM

As a longtime server in San Francisco, it is expected that there will be the 10% tips. And here in the U.S,, sorry to say it IS an insult to the server to tip less than 15%. And the I.R.S. is involved too. If a server were to get audited, they are expected to declare 8% of their sales, so after tipping out bussers, bartenders, food runners and hostesses, typically a third of what a server makes,...+READ

As a longtime server in San Francisco, it is expected that there will be the 10% tips. And here in the U.S,, sorry to say it IS an insult to the server to tip less than 15%. And the I.R.S. is involved too. If a server were to get audited, they are expected to declare 8% of their sales, so after tipping out bussers, bartenders, food runners and hostesses, typically a third of what a server makes, too many 10% tips could theoretically get us in trouble.

If you do decide to tip poorly, if and when you return to that restaurant, you will be put to the bottom of the list in terms of service. It is not that your service will necessarily suck, it is just that the server simply has no incentive and you will then see what 10% really looks like.

And from a servers standpoint, rudeness is the worst, but we usually understand that the person in question is probably always like that, so if we are professional, we try not to take it personally. But at the same time: why would anyone be stupid enough to insult someone who is bringing them something they are about to consume?

About how to get a servers attention, I am not sure exactly how to answer. I have the same problem myself at times. Usually we are just crazy busy and that is the reason. One time several years ago I had a guest toss a knife in my path as I walked by to get my attention because I was just so busy I couldn't even make eye contact with anyone. I had to laugh though, because as I bent to pick it up he gave me his request. But I don't recommend that. Usually I try to scan the room, even when I am busy, to see if the guest is looking around or seeming to need anything at that moment.

As for the guy who was chewing while the server asked so many questions: it is true, it is a server curse to always come up on a table when they are chewing. It is likely unintentional. But I have to know: what in gods name were you chewing that you couldn't swallow in the time it took to ask 4 questions?

Lastly, we are there simply to make your experience a good one and I for one always appreciate it if a guest tells me what they prefer, be it to be left alone, pour their own wine, have a nice, long leisurely meal, whatever. But don't get mad at us for attempting to do our jobs. After all, why do you go out to dinner if not to have someone wait on you?-COLLAPSE

By jadedwaitress on March 5, 2010 07:46 PM

Regarding "camping", I think it is relative and servers who are desperate to turn the table are at least as obnoxious as leisurely patrons. A nice restaurant should expect that people may take their time and have a leisurely night out. One of the best restaurants in my area only do two seatings per night and I think it is reasonable to expect that kind of service in a high-end place. I understand...+READ

Regarding "camping", I think it is relative and servers who are desperate to turn the table are at least as obnoxious as leisurely patrons. A nice restaurant should expect that people may take their time and have a leisurely night out. One of the best restaurants in my area only do two seatings per night and I think it is reasonable to expect that kind of service in a high-end place. I understand that a more casual place is a different setting but rushing people through their evening is still rude and likely to create a bad experience.

I no longer go out for holiday meals (Valentines Day especially) because too many restaurants are very busy and servers are desperate to turn their tables quickly. How romantic/festive is that? It's like eating at a fast food chain; a meal at home is much more appealing.-COLLAPSE

By glowworm on March 5, 2010 08:13 AM

Part of the problem appears to be that waiting is not regarded as a profession in the US, but is rather something students do to earn money while they are studying. Under those circumstances, how can you get professional service. I reiterate, I would leave a zero tip for these instances of shoddy service.

By RonfromLaos on March 4, 2010 07:54 PM

I have been experiencing more plain old mistakes these days...

For instance, I order Shrimp Caesar Salad and get Shrimp Spring Salad with Raspberry Vinaigrette...I very politely point out the correction to my server, who then behaves as if she is doing me a favor by bringing me a side of croutons.

In this case, I knew the owner, and we had just been given a round of drinks on the house, and I...+READ

I have been experiencing more plain old mistakes these days...

For instance, I order Shrimp Caesar Salad and get Shrimp Spring Salad with Raspberry Vinaigrette...I very politely point out the correction to my server, who then behaves as if she is doing me a favor by bringing me a side of croutons.

In this case, I knew the owner, and we had just been given a round of drinks on the house, and I felt awkward about making a fuss. My husband says I am too nice, and its true I get intimidated. I sure was craving that Caesar, though.

Or I get the wrong side dish, or the wrong cut of beef. I know the server can hear me, because they usually repeat what I say.

Anyway, as much as I respect the perspective of the servers, and I certainly tip well for good service, I have noticed an overall decline in the basic quality...Just give me the dish I ordered, please, without attitude.-COLLAPSE

By darncat on March 4, 2010 07:40 PM

One of my peeves is when paying the bill. If the server asks "do you need change?" (when I pay with cash). Like keeping the change should be assumed.

My response is "I do, now"

By arutkow on March 3, 2010 09:13 AM

Well, I think it is just good manners to cancel a reservation, if need be. It means the restaurant isn't kept hanging, probably holding on to a table, wondering if you're going to show up, and can free that table up for other customers who may be waiting.

Apparently I'm in the minority, since the last time I canceled a reservation at a fairly high-end resto in DC, the lady I spoke to was both...+READ

Well, I think it is just good manners to cancel a reservation, if need be. It means the restaurant isn't kept hanging, probably holding on to a table, wondering if you're going to show up, and can free that table up for other customers who may be waiting.

Apparently I'm in the minority, since the last time I canceled a reservation at a fairly high-end resto in DC, the lady I spoke to was both surprised and seemingly thankful for the call.

I disagree completely with #4, and echo some of the previous responses. If it's a fancy restaurant, they play the 'philistine' card.......even if it's as simple as a braise of rabbit that's like 50% salt (yes, I'm exaggerating a bit) and completely inedible. More and more, when you complain about a dish (not because it's something you don't know or are unfamiliar with, but rather because it has been poorly/incorrectly prepared) you're treated as someone who complains just to get a discount or your meal comped.

And then it just turns into an argument, which turns an unpleasant dining experience even more unpleasant.

It seems to me better to avoid all the drama and post your experiences online. Restaurant owners that don't check out what's been said about them online are just stupid.

-R-COLLAPSE

By spoon99 on March 2, 2010 10:33 PM

Explanation about tipping problems. I linked to the original writing but mods deleted it 'cause it was deemed too self-promotional. Here's the text not in the context of the blog:

Restaurant Tipping and Racism
"Blacks don't tip well."

— Hiromi "Toni" Takarada, owner, "Thai Toni," Miami, Florida, USA

October 23, 1999

Charles Thompson and his wife, Theresa White, decided to head to...+READ

Explanation about tipping problems. I linked to the original writing but mods deleted it 'cause it was deemed too self-promotional. Here's the text not in the context of the blog:

Restaurant Tipping and Racism
"Blacks don't tip well."

— Hiromi "Toni" Takarada, owner, "Thai Toni," Miami, Florida, USA

October 23, 1999

Charles Thompson and his wife, Theresa White, decided to head to Miami's hip South Beach to have supper. Their meal at the popular "Thai Toni" Asian fusion restaurant was quite good. The well-dressed couple fit in well at the upscale restaurant, filled with locals and tourists enjoying the peaceful and chic atmosphere and critically-acclaimed cuisine. The finale to their meal was not a sweet dessert; in fact it was terribly unpleasant for Thompson and White, and a bitter wake-up call later for the restaurant.

Mr. Thompson noticed that a fifteen per cent service charge had been written onto their bill. Nowhere on the menu did it say that a gratuity would be added by the house. There were no signs to that effect anywhere in the restaurant, either. Thompson asked the diners at the next table, who'd also received their bill, if he could look at it. The bill at the neighboring table did not have any gratuity written in. Thompson telephoned 911 and summoned the police.

Why was Thompson compelled to call the police?

After all, it's the same restaurant, the bills were both for parties of two, and the amounts were similar. Perhaps writing-in the service charge for the other table had been carelessly overlooked.

What made the difference is that Thompson and his wife are African American, and the diners at the table next to them were white. This alone made Thompson's "blood boil."1 Worse, when asked by Thompson about the discrepancy, restaurateur Hiromi "Toni" Takarada responded that he added the service charge because, in his words, "blacks don't tip well." Takarada actually reiterated these words to the officers who arrived on the scene to investigate Thompson's complaint, thinking the officers would back him up.

The State of Florida filed suit against Takarada for discrimination. Some residents of South Beach, where gratuities are routinely added to the bills at the area's expensive restaurants, claimed the lawsuit was overkill. The State's attorney in charge of the case, Bob Butterworth, said it was one of the most flagrant examples he'd ever seen of discrimination.

A Brave Researcher at Cornell Stirs Things Up: March, 2006

"Although the topic is sensitive, the restaurant industry needs to openly discuss and deal with ethnic differences in tipping. This study contributes to the dialogue by providing evidence that black consumers are less familiar with the restaurant tipping norm than are white consumers."

— Michael Lynn, Ph.D., in "Ethnic Differences in Tipping: A Matter of Familiarity with Tipping Norms"

Dr. Lynn is an associate professor of marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration. He mentions the story of Mr. Thompson and Thai Toni restaurant at the beginning of his report. Lynn's study has elicited both positive and negative comments in the restaurant industry and among civil rights advocates. The biggest fear is that the results will reinforce the negative stereotype of blacks being poor tippers.

The negative stereotype and resultant discriminatory behavior on the part of restaurant servers will not disappear if restaurateurs fail to acknowledge this admittedly sensitive issue. Indeed, Lynn posits that if his recommendations are heeded, restaurant servers will reap the benefits of better tipping. More importantly, blacks will enjoy an enhanced quality of life if restaurateurs are no longer hesitant about opening restaurants in communities with a high percentage of black residents.

The Meat and Potatoes of the Cornell Study

The firm of Taylor Nelson Sofres Intersearch was hired to collect the data. The actual interviews consisted of questions asked on behalf of multiple clients of the firm. This is called an omnibus survey and is a far more economical way to collect data than to attempt to interview subjects for one study alone. The firm utilized Genesys random-digit-dial sampling, which allows researchers to sample people with unlisted telephone numbers.

Just over a thousand interviews were completed; 788 with whites and 99 with blacks. The remaining respondents were from other ethnic groups, and their responses were not utilized for purposes of Lynn's study. Of calls answered, 71 percent of households refused to participate.

Those households choosing to participate were asked: "Thinking about tipping overall, not your own practices, how much is it customary for people in the United States to tip waiters and waitresses?" The answers to this open-ended question were categorized by the researchers into six classifications: "Less than 15%," "15% to 20%," "More than 20%," "A dollar amount," "'Don't know'" and "Other."

Just under a third of blacks said that the customary restaurant tip was less than 15%. Nearly forty per cent answered "15% to 20%." Just over twelve per cent said they didn't know. Fifteen percent said it was a flat dollar amount.

Over 70% of whites said that the customary restaurant tip was "15% to 20%," and only two and a half per cent said they didn't know. Fewer than 20 per cent of whites responded that tips should be lower than 15%.

Although a tiny difference, it's interesting to note that while 3.7% of whites said that tips should exceed 20 per cent, three-tenths of a percent more blacks (4.0%) said this. At first glance, one could conclude that blacks are ahead of whites among the category of generous tippers. Given the small population of respondents to Lynn's survey, this conclusion is rendered moot.2

Lynn's report was silent with regard to whether or not the preponderance of white responses garnered were intended so as to duplicate U.S. population statistics. Most commercial market research attempts to do so. Lynn's survey results, as reported, were adjusted for the respondents' sex, age, income, household size and whether or not the household was located in a metropolitan area.

Additional Support For Dr. Lynn's Hypothesis

The Cornell Study also cites another survey conducted by Dr. Lynn but not published. 51 servers in a Houston restaurant were interviewed on the subject. A whopping 94 percent of those servers described blacks as poor tippers.

There are several studies yet to be published that also affirm the hypothesis. Data collected from telephone surveys, servers and exit interviews indicate that blacks tip, on average, 20 per cent less than whites do.

Finally, the study cites www.tipping.org and quotes anecdotes from the website's forums.

Communicating What People Don't Know

Lynn's most important conclusion is that, assuming his hypothesis is correct, efforts should be made, via a public relations effort, to communicate correct levels of tipping to all restaurant customers. This involves informing customers with signage, on menus, on table devices. He even goes so far as to say that a reminder should accompany customers' meal checks.

Lynn admits that he's not certain how to undertake this task. However, he advocates involvement of the National Restaurant Association in a nation-wide program of advertising and public relations to spread the message. Lynn also suggests that, in areas of heavier minority populations, local minority advocates should get involved in spreading tipping information. The payback to these groups would be the placement of more full-service restaurants in these areas (therefore enhancing quality of life therein).

As part of the solution, a peculiar method for addressing the problem was suggested. Lynn, a professor of marketing, came up with a restaurant "game" that he proposes be open to play only by those who'd tipped their server 15 per cent or more. These "sufficient tippers" would be offered chances at prizes or given a coupon to use on subsequent visits. From a restaurant owner's standpoint, such a carnival atmosphere being used to promote proper tipping is at best awkward and could embarrass both patrons and waitstaff.

Consequences of Failure to Address the Problem

Blacks comprise about 12 percent of the nation's population, representing buying power, as a demographic, of more than $646 billion annually. Restaurants that fail to embrace blacks as customers are missing out on a considerable amount of potential sales.

Restaurant operators will suffer the burden of high employee turnover should they venture into neighborhoods with high concentrations of blacks without properly addressing the needs and concerns of residents, and their own staff.

Restaurants who continue to stick their heads in the sand and attempt to keep the status quo also may expose themselves eventually to discrimination lawsuits. The Denny's restaurant chain settled a class-action discrimination lawsuit for $46 million in the 1990s. Although Denny's has made significant efforts to change its policies, the image of the company still remains tarnished. There is also an on-going class-action discrimination lawsuit against the Cracker Barrel chain of restaurants that will be quite costly for it regardless the outcome.

The Perspective of the Restaurant Industry Media

A March, 2006 editorial in the restaurant industry magazine Restaurant Hospitality addresses the Cornell study. Prior to the publication of the editorial, Restaurant Hospitality editor-in-chief Mike Sanson blogged:

"It all boils down to this crazy Catch-22. Many black customers (regardless of socioeconomic status) don't know that a customary tip for good service in restaurants is 15-20 percent. In turn, waiters don't want to serve black customers. When they do, waiters often deliver poor service believing their tip will be poor. And black customers believe they are getting inferior service because of their race."

The comments posted under Sanson's blog entry, "When Good Customers' Tips Are Bad," were mixed. One commenter mentioned that she'd never experienced under-tipping by African-Americans. Another called Sanson a racist and an instigator.

Feedback received by Cornell's Lynn was similarly diverse. Lynn openly discusses both sides of the issue in his report.

Just Desserts

The coda to Mr. Thompson's story is that Thai Toni restaurant settled the lawsuit against it, paying $15,000 to Mr. Thompson. Additionally, the restaurant must now write-in a fifteen percent gratuity on all bills, and explain to customers that the figure may be raised or lowered. The Greater Miami Convention and Visitors' Bureau has removed Thai Toni from its visitors guides, and from the Bureau's website. Finally, Mr. Tarakada agreed that he and his employees would agree to receive sensitivity training from the State.-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on March 2, 2010 09:19 PM

I'm always amused by the fact that people complain about 2 or 3 times markup on wine when it's lower than the mark-up on food. We've aimed for 18 - 25% food cost and try to absolutely keep it below 30% in every resteraunt I've ever worked. Basically the mark-up on food is 3 1/3 to 6 times.

In the recent economic situation customers are expecting to pass less and have grown more and more...+READ

I'm always amused by the fact that people complain about 2 or 3 times markup on wine when it's lower than the mark-up on food. We've aimed for 18 - 25% food cost and try to absolutely keep it below 30% in every resteraunt I've ever worked. Basically the mark-up on food is 3 1/3 to 6 times.

In the recent economic situation customers are expecting to pass less and have grown more and more demanding and picky. At the same time minimum wage is rising every year and resteraunt overhead is getting higher while the profit margins falls to fractions of a percent. Right now dishwashers make more money than the sous chef did at my first job 14 years ago but people still want to pay the same price for their food that they did then.

The reality is when you eat out you pay for the priviledge of not planning, cooking, cleaning and doing the dishes. Bottom line if you are unwilling to pay what people ask for their food, drink and services then you should stay home.-COLLAPSE

By bekazu on March 2, 2010 07:40 PM

I must admit that in some better restaurants I have generally seen far lower markups on quality wine. One of the best bargains i have seen was a bottle of ''91 La Tache DRC for $450. This is actually below retail price.
However some other restaurants charge ridicupus amounts. A few years ago I remember selling one restaurant in Oz some surplus '75 Chateau Montrose and then seeing it on their...+READ

I must admit that in some better restaurants I have generally seen far lower markups on quality wine. One of the best bargains i have seen was a bottle of ''91 La Tache DRC for $450. This is actually below retail price.
However some other restaurants charge ridicupus amounts. A few years ago I remember selling one restaurant in Oz some surplus '75 Chateau Montrose and then seeing it on their winelist at $400.00. Ridiculous!-COLLAPSE

By RonfromLaos on March 2, 2010 04:21 PM

I will touch on the wine mark up again, and the price of alcohol in general. Somethings that weren't mentioned. Liquor Liability insurance, Average cost $1000. per month..Liquor License Renewal annual..$2500. (WONDERFUL NJ)...Then the state ABC license renewal..annual $200. Not so much pilferage as folks asking for a"taste", I dont mind,but, still a cost factor. And then of course every...+READ

I will touch on the wine mark up again, and the price of alcohol in general. Somethings that weren't mentioned. Liquor Liability insurance, Average cost $1000. per month..Liquor License Renewal annual..$2500. (WONDERFUL NJ)...Then the state ABC license renewal..annual $200. Not so much pilferage as folks asking for a"taste", I dont mind,but, still a cost factor. And then of course every organization, school, and other local causes think because you're a bar or restaurant owner you have tons of "donatable" cash. Ok, I'll stop now!-COLLAPSE

By foodislove1958 on March 2, 2010 03:46 PM

also to: RonfromLaos@ march 2nd 3am post:

soupkitten is correct. However, high priced wines are not, typically, marked up as much (as a percentage) as are lower priced wines. Typically when an inexpensive wine is marked up 3X, mid priced wines (say the $50 retail wine) is probably marked up at most 2x and the really expensive wine even less. Of course, many high priced wines on lists were not...+READ

also to: RonfromLaos@ march 2nd 3am post:

soupkitten is correct. However, high priced wines are not, typically, marked up as much (as a percentage) as are lower priced wines. Typically when an inexpensive wine is marked up 3X, mid priced wines (say the $50 retail wine) is probably marked up at most 2x and the really expensive wine even less. Of course, many high priced wines on lists were not purchased by the restaurant through the typical wine provider. Many, especially older, high end wines, were perchased on the secondary market, at much higher prices than they released for. One would not expect that a bottle of 1963 Graham Vintage Port or a 1982 Chateau Canon was purchased by the restaurant and kept in their cellar since that time (well unless you were dining at Bern's I guess).

One of the things about a great wine list at a 4 star restaurant is that it is so comprehensive, designed to go with the food, and has been put together with thought and the wines are stored and served properly.-COLLAPSE

By dinwiddie on March 2, 2010 09:43 AM

to: RonfromLaos@ march 2nd 3am post:

actually the wine markup for high-end wines almost always corresponds to more extensive wine lists, more specialized wine storage facilities, more wine expertise on staff.

your corner bistro may just have 10-20 cases of nice, drinkable wines in the basement, replenished as needed. this type of place will often have an 1/2 price wine night, etc. however, an...+READ

to: RonfromLaos@ march 2nd 3am post:

actually the wine markup for high-end wines almost always corresponds to more extensive wine lists, more specialized wine storage facilities, more wine expertise on staff.

your corner bistro may just have 10-20 cases of nice, drinkable wines in the basement, replenished as needed. this type of place will often have an 1/2 price wine night, etc. however, an establishment with $600 and up wine listings will certainly have a careful cellaring system, and a wine inventory that costs tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars (this is capital that's tied up in one product, wine) and takes up a great deal of square footage-- in addition to special equipment to store wines at proper temp and humidity, plus a sommelier on staff, and their staff will have certainly received extensive wine training as a matter of course, no? that's what you are paying for. unfair? hardy.-COLLAPSE

By soupkitten on March 2, 2010 08:02 AM

I used to be one of the people who didn't understand the corkage fee, or the mark up on wine. It really seemed like you were paying for nothing. After watching that table open their own wine at the end of the meal, I realized that people who are sitting drinking a bottle of wine lose track of time. As much as we might like to think otherwise, time is money, especially at a restaurant. When you...+READ

I used to be one of the people who didn't understand the corkage fee, or the mark up on wine. It really seemed like you were paying for nothing. After watching that table open their own wine at the end of the meal, I realized that people who are sitting drinking a bottle of wine lose track of time. As much as we might like to think otherwise, time is money, especially at a restaurant. When you pay a corkage, or the markup for wine, you are really paying for the extra time that you sit in the restaurant, and the extra time it takes for the servers, dishwashers, etc, to clean up after you.-COLLAPSE

By notanotherpoboy on March 2, 2010 07:18 AM

So jjgalella, do you also have a 300% markup on a $50.00 bottle of wine? What about a $500.00 bottle of wine? The storage, and service of such a wine is the same as a $6.00 bottle.
I have seen some restaurants charge a 200% markup on expensive wines as well. That is surely unfair.

By RonfromLaos on March 2, 2010 01:04 AM

And "iowastate"

Keep up the good fight...
Standing there at Subway smiling at all the workers, thinking about all the "hard" times when you couldn't afford to go out to a nice restaurant and tip. And how those hard times helped your soul flower. Order your hoagie, look at the tip jar, than look at the person getting paid the absolute lowest amount of money allowed by law, and smile. Smile....+READ

And "iowastate"

Keep up the good fight...
Standing there at Subway smiling at all the workers, thinking about all the "hard" times when you couldn't afford to go out to a nice restaurant and tip. And how those hard times helped your soul flower. Order your hoagie, look at the tip jar, than look at the person getting paid the absolute lowest amount of money allowed by law, and smile. Smile. Smile. For that is life's trough gratuity.


TIP YOUR SERVERS!
If you don't at least have the guts to tell them why.
i.e.- they were terrible, slow, rude or just bad at their job. That would help out more than you could ever know. Other ways tell just assume you are to cheap to notice.-COLLAPSE

By jjgalella on February 28, 2010 09:52 PM

OK.
I'll try to keep this short. (try) To everyone who complains about the mark up of wine, think of this: I own a restaurant and I have to buy a bottle of wine for 6 dollars and I'm selling it for 18. 3 X's mark up, you complain here. Actually I had to buy 2 cases of this wine, because, god forbid you come in and I don't have any of the cheapest wine on the list for you, right to the computer...+READ

OK.
I'll try to keep this short. (try) To everyone who complains about the mark up of wine, think of this: I own a restaurant and I have to buy a bottle of wine for 6 dollars and I'm selling it for 18. 3 X's mark up, you complain here. Actually I had to buy 2 cases of this wine, because, god forbid you come in and I don't have any of the cheapest wine on the list for you, right to the computer you go to write to everyone who searches my restaurant on the Internet that I don't have any of the wine on my list. Now that's $148 invested in a wine, just one type of wine with maybe 70 different bottles on the wine list. I have employees to pay, employees taxes, state and federal taxes, all utilities, sales tax and so on and so on. It could take me 2 to 4 months to sell 24 bttls. of that wine. So meanwhile I have to Pay for the refrigeration to store it, pay someone to take care of it, keep it stored at the right temp and humidity, I also lose about 3% of product to employee theft, 3% to miss pours and another 2% to spillage and comps.
So you can go to trader Joe's and buy the wine for 6 bucks, take it home, open it and drink it from a jelly jar and all your out is 6 bucks.
Unless of course you to, have to pay someone to wash that jelly jar, and break one out of every 25 or so he washes, then, your out 6.50...
Does this make sense to anyone??
Is it really a sin to mark up wine 3X's what its worth?
Even the people in the "wine distribution" business, I guess I could by my wine cheaper if you all would take a pay cut.

An egg costs about 20 cents.
Why do I have to pay 5 bucks for a breakfast at Denny's??-COLLAPSE

By jjgalella on February 28, 2010 09:39 PM

I was recently waiting to be sat at a restaurant, when I saw a table that was completely done eating, check paid and everything, pull a double-sized bottle of yellowtail or cavit or something similar out from under their table, and begin drinking it. The server approached them, but they basically ignored her, and continued to pour themselves from this giant bottle of wine. I waited forty five...+READ

I was recently waiting to be sat at a restaurant, when I saw a table that was completely done eating, check paid and everything, pull a double-sized bottle of yellowtail or cavit or something similar out from under their table, and begin drinking it. The server approached them, but they basically ignored her, and continued to pour themselves from this giant bottle of wine. I waited forty five minutes for them to leave, and I was furious! In what world is this kind of behavior okay? The manager was very apologetic to me, but stopped short of kicking them out, which I guess I understand, but I still can't figure out why these people thought this was okay.-COLLAPSE

By notanotherpoboy on February 28, 2010 04:18 PM

Hey Iowastate, no worries here. Yes it is a huge tip, and maybe you should tell the waiter that you had hard days in the past. it might make it easier for the next person who just tips normally.

I once waited a table where the guy was clearly trying to impress the group. Bill was somewhere around $300 for them all. He paid in almost all ones and fives (a few tens). The size of the wad was...+READ

Hey Iowastate, no worries here. Yes it is a huge tip, and maybe you should tell the waiter that you had hard days in the past. it might make it easier for the next person who just tips normally.

I once waited a table where the guy was clearly trying to impress the group. Bill was somewhere around $300 for them all. He paid in almost all ones and fives (a few tens). The size of the wad was humongous, and I wondered where the heck he had been hiding it. But he paid, low tip though.-COLLAPSE

By BratleFoodie on February 28, 2010 01:51 PM

#2 is absurd. I often bring my own beer because most restaurants have horrendous beer lists, not because I want to save a buck. If restaurants would recognize that some people want something better than standard macro-swill, I wouldn't need to do this.

By Josh on February 28, 2010 10:46 AM

I am not playing any games I have lived on low wages and I want to share a little now I can afford to and with those who give me a pleasant dining experience I feel giving them a smile is worth while.

I remember how hard it can be to make ends meet on the wages you get from a restaurant.

I do not eat out all that frequently and I don't feel I have to justify my self for what I do not feel is...+READ

I am not playing any games I have lived on low wages and I want to share a little now I can afford to and with those who give me a pleasant dining experience I feel giving them a smile is worth while.

I remember how hard it can be to make ends meet on the wages you get from a restaurant.

I do not eat out all that frequently and I don't feel I have to justify my self for what I do not feel is anything that is unwarranted.-COLLAPSE

By iowastate on February 28, 2010 01:12 AM

I've never snapped or clicked, but I have been frustrated trying to get the attention of a server who has paid little attention to my needs. Short of getting up from the table and asking the hostess for a little service, what do you recommend to get the attention of a server who is ignoring you?

By rrdsg on February 27, 2010 10:18 AM

Just two quick points.


1. To those people complaining about people 'only' tipping 10% - sorry, but the fact that your waiting staff don't get a living wage and need to buy their own benefits due to the lack of a compassionate welfare state are your problem.

Also, I cannot imagine giving any tip at all in response to poor service - which sometimes gets tricky when they try to sneak on 12.5% as...+READ

Just two quick points.


1. To those people complaining about people 'only' tipping 10% - sorry, but the fact that your waiting staff don't get a living wage and need to buy their own benefits due to the lack of a compassionate welfare state are your problem.

Also, I cannot imagine giving any tip at all in response to poor service - which sometimes gets tricky when they try to sneak on 12.5% as a 'suggested tip' pre-added to your bill as they almost always do in London (FYI, I don't tip on top of that - do people in the US?).

The day I tip over 12.5% will be a cold day in hell. The guy who regularly gives 40% is a blithering self-aggrandising idiot, and would be laughed out of town here. No wonder Americans are seen as absolute golden geese when they come over here.

2. My pet gripe, especially when dining in the US (and, sadly, increasingly in the UK too) is mawkishly over-attentive staff. I don't need to be asked if my food is OK - I'll certainly tell you if it's not. Once you've taken my order and delivered my food please leave me alone and do not interrupt my meal.

And I don't need to have my glass filled by you - I have my own arms.-COLLAPSE

By BudgieBoy on February 26, 2010 10:28 AM

@ iowastate,

I read your justification but I can´t help feeling that anyone who tips that much is engaging in a form of competitive one-upmanship and self-promotion - "look at me! I´m such an appreciative guy and whats more I can afford to be, not like those other stiffs who only tip 20%...!

Furthermore the person who follows after you and tips the US baseline of "only" 15% is going to be...+READ

@ iowastate,

I read your justification but I can´t help feeling that anyone who tips that much is engaging in a form of competitive one-upmanship and self-promotion - "look at me! I´m such an appreciative guy and whats more I can afford to be, not like those other stiffs who only tip 20%...!

Furthermore the person who follows after you and tips the US baseline of "only" 15% is going to be looked at as "stingy" even though the worldwide standard is from zero - 10%. (outside N.America 15% on a whole meal would be regarded as very generous). In Argentina where I am now only tourists tip 10%.-COLLAPSE

By cape of good wine on February 26, 2010 06:50 AM

@cape of good wine -

on the occasions it is deserved I don't feel a tip of that level is uncalled for when you consider how many people stiff the servers.

I don't always have wine with dinner but when I do I include everything and tip accordingly. Service and the price.

If there is beyond excellent service at a place that has really low prices then the tip is sometimes more the meal.

...+READ

@cape of good wine -

on the occasions it is deserved I don't feel a tip of that level is uncalled for when you consider how many people stiff the servers.

I don't always have wine with dinner but when I do I include everything and tip accordingly. Service and the price.

If there is beyond excellent service at a place that has really low prices then the tip is sometimes more the meal.

Denny's or something like that if in a hurry traveling on a trip, a few of them have given my service that was beyond the expense of anything in their menu.-COLLAPSE

By iowastate on February 25, 2010 10:23 PM

In reference to the "not canceling your reservation". I was really astounded this past Valentine's Day when I literally had 28 no-shows on such a busy night. Ironically my chef had told me to take credit card pre authorizations for the holiday and I balked at him. I just felt that this was bad "kharma". Unfortunately, moving forward I will take them and charge $25. per head for "no show, no call"...+READ

In reference to the "not canceling your reservation". I was really astounded this past Valentine's Day when I literally had 28 no-shows on such a busy night. Ironically my chef had told me to take credit card pre authorizations for the holiday and I balked at him. I just felt that this was bad "kharma". Unfortunately, moving forward I will take them and charge $25. per head for "no show, no call" . I could have booked those 28 reservations that day with no problem.-COLLAPSE

By foodislove1958 on February 25, 2010 07:33 PM

@iowastate,

40% tip - holy crow! - does that include wine? Some giant ego´s to be stroked over there - can anyone else top that?

By cape of good wine on February 25, 2010 05:02 AM

I rarely have encountered poor service. - I will leave the old fashioned 10% if I did not get decent service but that is so rare as to never happen. My father on the other hand still thinks 10-15% is fine for all occasions.

I no longer let him pay when I take him out to eat and at a place that may remember him I make sure to leave extra.

with excellent service I usually leave a 40% tip. I have...+READ

I rarely have encountered poor service. - I will leave the old fashioned 10% if I did not get decent service but that is so rare as to never happen. My father on the other hand still thinks 10-15% is fine for all occasions.

I no longer let him pay when I take him out to eat and at a place that may remember him I make sure to leave extra.

with excellent service I usually leave a 40% tip. I have worked food service and food markets and know how good it feels to be appreciated and how rarely it happens.-COLLAPSE

By iowastate on February 25, 2010 03:14 AM

"I always tip well, usually in the 25% range, but the only reason I will stiff a server on a tip (and that means leaving only 10-15%) is when the service was poor and it was obviously the server and not the kitchen."

If the service was "poor", why tip at all? Leave no tip and maybe even tell the waiter why.

By RonfromLaos on February 24, 2010 04:31 PM

Clarification: compaines get SUED and LOSE over this behavior. Anyone can sue anyone, but whether you'll win or lose is another matter, depending on the facts.

By lbjohnson on February 24, 2010 01:01 PM

Richard: when we get servers who takes the crap you spewed "seriously" or more to the point, "literally", then that puts people in a bad spot, now doesn't it.

By lbjohnson on February 24, 2010 12:57 PM

Lol somebody from South Africa asking about Black tipping habits? Really?

What people -- especially those who complain about this stereotype -- are habitually clueless about is there is a history of crappy service to Blacks in the USA across the board, not just "the south" as people seem to think. Our parent's generation and my generation know it well.

People need to read up on of service...+READ

Lol somebody from South Africa asking about Black tipping habits? Really?

What people -- especially those who complain about this stereotype -- are habitually clueless about is there is a history of crappy service to Blacks in the USA across the board, not just "the south" as people seem to think. Our parent's generation and my generation know it well.

People need to read up on of service windows, service entries, service doors, having to carry p*ss pots and one's own lunch while traveling; segregated seating (if they sat us at all), "no blacks" signs, "white only" signs, no Indians, no j&ps, no jews, no chi#namen, no Mexicans, etc.

And in the wake of Civil Rights -- being seated near the bathroom or kitchen even in an uncrowded restaurant (still happens), generally crappy, surly, why-aren't-you-grateful-to-be-served-at-all service, etc.

Companies still get SUED for this kind of behavior, so please, no indignant posts complaining that was then this is now you're living in the past why would you go where you're not wanted (how is anyone ever to know they're going to get crap service prior to walking into an eating establishmen), etc. Heard it all.

Bottom line: someone approaches me like they presume I'm a "poor tipper", yes they will get a poor tip. Normal service gets a normal tip. Great service/great food great tip.-COLLAPSE

By lbjohnson on February 24, 2010 12:52 PM

RE: Servers
If there is a thread for servers' gaffes, I apologize because this post should instead go there.

IMO, the #1 server gaffe is asking the customer a question when his mouth is full. In a word: DON'T!!! I know you're busy; we're all busy at our respective jobs. But before you approach the table with a question (e.g. "How is everything?") take a second to see whether the customer is...+READ

RE: Servers
If there is a thread for servers' gaffes, I apologize because this post should instead go there.

IMO, the #1 server gaffe is asking the customer a question when his mouth is full. In a word: DON'T!!! I know you're busy; we're all busy at our respective jobs. But before you approach the table with a question (e.g. "How is everything?") take a second to see whether the customer is chewing.

One time I absolutely lost my temper with a server because as soon as I had taken my last bite she appeared and asked me four--FOUR--questions in a row while I was conspicuously chewing.

"How was everything?" (I gave her a thumbs up.)
"Are you done with this plate?" (I nodded.)
"Can I get you a refill of your Ice Tea?" (I shook my head.)
"Would you like the check now?"

And that's when I lost it. I burst out (with a mouth full of food, mind you), as follows "WHAT IS THIS? A JOKE? YOU ASK ME FOUR QUESTIONS IN A ROW WHEN I'M OBVIOUSLY CHEWING? WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH YOU? GO AWAY! NOW!"

For the record, I treat my servers as I would like to be treated, both during the meal, and when tipping, because I'm a very empathetic person. (More than one girlfriend has commented on how "tuned in" I am to others.) Admittedly, I would not have liked to have been on the receiving end of my outburst. But, come on, that was flat out unreasonable of her, IMO.-COLLAPSE

By Jack22 on February 24, 2010 12:08 PM

Actually, the best way to make sure the server doesn't just fill your wine glass is to tell them after the first pour that you will be doing the pouring from then on. One cannot blame the server if you haven't said anything, after all, in many restaurants the management tells the servers to do the pouring. Either they think it is a sign of good service, or more likely, they are trying to get you...+READ

Actually, the best way to make sure the server doesn't just fill your wine glass is to tell them after the first pour that you will be doing the pouring from then on. One cannot blame the server if you haven't said anything, after all, in many restaurants the management tells the servers to do the pouring. Either they think it is a sign of good service, or more likely, they are trying to get you to finish that bottle before your meal is over and order another.

I've had situations where servers automatically topped off my glass, but since the glass had Pinot Noir, and the bottle on the table was a Cabernet, the mixture was not exactly what I wanted.

I always tip well, usually in the 25% range, but the only reason I will stiff a server on a tip (and that means leaving only 10-15%) is when the service was poor and it was obviously the server and not the kitchen. The server does not control when the food comes out. If it takes forever for the entree to arrive after the appetizer, it was probably the kitchen's fault. After all, the server cannot bring your your food until the kitchen prepares it.-COLLAPSE

By dinwiddie on February 24, 2010 06:39 AM

>>> if someone can think of a way I think it's a great idea!

Just tell the waiter that you want to be asked before filling the wine glass. If it is a business meal, excuse yourself and talk to the waiter privately

By rworange on February 23, 2010 02:46 PM

I would LOVE for a staff member to inquire whether I would like to refill my own wine glass. I appreciate great service as much as the next person but I don't like to have our dinner conversation interrupted every time someone's glass gets a bit low. I'm not even sure how such a question would be raised, but if someone can think of a way I think it's a great idea! Particularly on a business...+READ

I would LOVE for a staff member to inquire whether I would like to refill my own wine glass. I appreciate great service as much as the next person but I don't like to have our dinner conversation interrupted every time someone's glass gets a bit low. I'm not even sure how such a question would be raised, but if someone can think of a way I think it's a great idea! Particularly on a business dinner where sensitive material is being discussed, or a romantic dinner where...well... sensitive material may be being discussed ;) I'd be happy to ask my companion(s) to pass the bottle rather than sit awkwardly while it's done for us. Seems to me that it would also free up the server for other things... love it.-COLLAPSE

By KKR on February 23, 2010 02:02 PM

Feeling pretty happy to live in Montreal, where BYOB with no corkage is common, and where waiters assume that everyone at the table will want a separate check (even large parties). Oh, and the food is excellent. :)

By kbinsted on February 23, 2010 10:23 AM

tatamagouche?

Are you a Bluenoser?

By seemac70 on February 22, 2010 05:30 AM

1. Call If You Have to Cancel

A popular restaurant will overbook to deal with this. So it is really the other customers who suffer usually with a long wait if everyone shows

2. Complain to the Restaurant Before Spewing Online
.>>Many people don’t realize the power of a bad review ... . Be sure to get your facts straight.

Every food site, including Chowhound, allows owners to correct...+READ

1. Call If You Have to Cancel

A popular restaurant will overbook to deal with this. So it is really the other customers who suffer usually with a long wait if everyone shows

2. Complain to the Restaurant Before Spewing Online
.>>Many people don’t realize the power of a bad review ... . Be sure to get your facts straight.

Every food site, including Chowhound, allows owners to correct factual statements such as posting they don't serve bread pudding.

It was the mention of power of food forums that caused me to post.

Restaurants and customers give food forums way too much importance. The posts really are not so significant

Some restaurants follow forums almost religiously. Usually they are the restaurants that are at the top of the heirarchy

If you post a bad report it is foolish to think most restaurants are reading it. and getting the message

So if you want a situation corrected talk to the restaurant.

The only reason to post ... positive or negative ... is to share info with fellow diners. Don't expect it to correct a thing. .-COLLAPSE

By rworange on February 21, 2010 11:12 PM

I'll second everything you just said, Richard.

To add to this, almost all old white people think that 3 dollars is an enormous tip.

By TheSkoo on February 21, 2010 09:50 PM

Sure, Cape. I'm guessing you mean Bosnians, since there's such a big population here in St. Louis.;-). But I moved here after my restaurant days, so I can't help you there.

Servers are, in my experience, a pretty cynical bunch. We form cynical opinions about every group. OTOH, we're results oriented. We're pretty fluid about judging individuals - treat us like humans and tip well, and we won't...+READ

Sure, Cape. I'm guessing you mean Bosnians, since there's such a big population here in St. Louis.;-). But I moved here after my restaurant days, so I can't help you there.

Servers are, in my experience, a pretty cynical bunch. We form cynical opinions about every group. OTOH, we're results oriented. We're pretty fluid about judging individuals - treat us like humans and tip well, and we won't care if you're a blue skinned Andoran with antenna. And your attitude counts a lot more than ethnicity.

OK - I'll bite with the stereotypes. And that's what they are - stereotypes. We're usually cynical but changeable. OK - some servers are just nasty, but hey - don't bind me up with them.

Blacks. Poor tippers. A wide variety of maintenance levels. Some obnoxious (especially a guy trying to impress a girl; true of white kids too). Families can be really nice, especially if you're good with kids.

Italians & Greeks: Very good tippers (Italians better), fun, low maintenance but will sit at the table - and sit, and sit...

Business people. Great when the company is paying, and usually low maintenance, but will often sit... On their own dime - they're, well, businessy, especially at lunch. Business women at lunch - wide range of maintenance, small meals, **exactly** 15%, and separate checkland that takes 2-3 days for them to figure out.

Clergy (and I'm married to a Methodist PK): Very nice & low maintenance (after a gazillion questions when ordering), small meals, and water to drink. 10-15%, but then it's the churches dime. And they won't sit too long.

Jews. (I'm Jewish!) Lousy tippers or *great* tippers. Fairly high maintenance.

Doctors & CPAs - exactly 15%, generally low maintenance.

Chinese: Poor tippers; moderate maintenance.
Japanese: Good tippers; fairly low maintenance. Very polite.
Koreans: One Korean chef - owner told me he'd never open a Korea restaurant because they're cheap and demanding. Hmmmm... My experiences were more moderate.

The best? Current and former waiters and gays. Get yourself a table of gay waiters after they've come off shift elsewhere. Work hard but mentally relax. Bonus.

I know I've left off groups, and other servers' experiences may be different. BTW - any of you that take this seriously need to get a grip.

Comments?-COLLAPSE

By Richard 16 on February 21, 2010 09:08 PM

Whilst we´re talking about tipping, and there appears to be quite a few ex-waiters here, can anyone confirm the rumours that, generally speaking, a certain racial minority (I dont think I need to name which one) habitually tips very poorly or not at all?

By cape of good wine on February 21, 2010 03:49 PM

I typically tip around 20-30% everywhere I go and I've dated waitresses who've thoroughly explained to me the value of properly tipping; however, I can't help but think that waiters in the U.S. feel too entitled to their 15+% tip.

Earlier someone explained how the salary system for European servers pays them a percentage of the table's check, but in Asian countries servers get paid shit,...+READ

I typically tip around 20-30% everywhere I go and I've dated waitresses who've thoroughly explained to me the value of properly tipping; however, I can't help but think that waiters in the U.S. feel too entitled to their 15+% tip.

Earlier someone explained how the salary system for European servers pays them a percentage of the table's check, but in Asian countries servers get paid shit, treated like shit, and don't receive tips. I recall being chased down one time because I left my change on the table as a tip. In countries that can truly appreciate the value/power of money, you get honest and great service that deserves a tip every single time.

In the U.S., I can sympathize with the servers that live in states that don't pay at least the minimum wage, but in California, they get that on top of their cut of the tips. So, as a Californian, why should I reward poor service? I've only left a 10% tip a handful of times in my life, even when I probably should have talked to their manager; however, I'd much rather "stiff" a server on a tip than complain to his/her manager about the poor service I received. That extra 5% I've stiffed you is worth your job security, so deal with it.

If a server doesn't like his/her management, the customers, or the job itself, , then that server can quit and find a new job. That is, if there are any available these days.

Bottom Line: If you have a job, it's going to suck, but you should be grateful that you're getting paid in this economy. Unless you're able to bring something to the table other than my food (i.e. culinary knowledge, entertainment, or excellent service), then you do not deserve more than minimum wage. I will treat you with the respect that everyone deserves, but I am not going to overpay for a bad product. Business is business.-COLLAPSE

By blargher on February 21, 2010 02:24 PM

re: tipping in france/europe. except that in these areas the server's "commission" is built into the pricing system. in france, for every glass of wine, cup of tea, salad, main, etc-- the server gets a percentage cut. in addition to her/his wage. in addition to receiving vacation, health coverage, etc. provided by the govt. so Ron's friends' attempt to "punish" the server for the establishment's...+READ

re: tipping in france/europe. except that in these areas the server's "commission" is built into the pricing system. in france, for every glass of wine, cup of tea, salad, main, etc-- the server gets a percentage cut. in addition to her/his wage. in addition to receiving vacation, health coverage, etc. provided by the govt. so Ron's friends' attempt to "punish" the server for the establishment's late opening would have zero to little effect on the server's ability to live--s/he still gets a "cut" of whatever the table's check total turned out to be. likewise, the "extra euro or two" they left other servers was actually a mainly unnecessary gesture, as the server's real income would come from her/his sales percentage at the end of the night, not the coin left on the tabletop.

the u.s.a. has a completely different pricing system that leaves the server out of it. restaurant prices are lower because the server gets no "cut." servers in most of the u.s. work part-time and get a wage of around $2/hour. they receive no health (or usually any other) benefits. they are taxed for tips on a percentage of their check totals, nightly-- whether they get stiffed or not, the server pays. it is not unusual for a server in the u.s to get a paycheck for $0.12 (two week pay period), or to have to pay the restaurant because of taxes. it is common knowledge that servers live entirely on their tips here. restaurant patrons throughout the u.s. have been socialized to the u.s. tipping system-- if you go out to eat, you tip the server (usually a percentage of your final bill).

the problem seems to be when folks who are used to the mandated (european) tipping system come to the u.s. which uses a largely invisible system which is on its face wholly discretionary. the visiting folks often take service from servers and bar staff who work at roughly 1/4 minimum hourly wage and then proceed to stiff them. the folks seem to think they can apply a european etc. model of tipping where a couple of bucks for a $200 meal is generous, when it clearly amounts to a monstrous abuse of people under the u.s. system.

to put it a bit more strongly: in the u.s, it is a very serious and insulting gesture toward the server for a restaurant patron to neglect to tip, or to tip very poorly. it tells the server that the patron regards her/him as a slave who must provide service but does not need any income to live, and/or that s/he does not deserve to live, have a family/education/medical treatment, or otherwise be treated like a human being. the fact that many americans abroad will continue to tip is unsurprising given the social system of tipping here. as far as these americans are concerned, they are merely showing appreciation and respect for other human beings, as they would at home.-COLLAPSE

By soupkitten on February 21, 2010 09:20 AM

Ron, you may have figured out that most of our reactions are from those of us in the USA. Bringing up other places social customs is fine if you want to *discuss* cultural contrasts/comparisons.

But the holder of my car loan couldn't care less. They want their money, and I don't blame them. I want my car - in fact I need my car. I can (and do) advocate for public transit, but for now and for the...+READ

Ron, you may have figured out that most of our reactions are from those of us in the USA. Bringing up other places social customs is fine if you want to *discuss* cultural contrasts/comparisons.

But the holder of my car loan couldn't care less. They want their money, and I don't blame them. I want my car - in fact I need my car. I can (and do) advocate for public transit, but for now and for the foreseable future, I need it. Do you blame me?

I have waited (or served - what's so horrible about that word?) in three star restaurants and one four star. Many people were lifelong pros. Take away their tips and we'd lose these wonderful, experienced people. Is that what you want, here in the USA's reality?

This the real dining out and tipping culture of the USA, whether or not you or I like it. The options above stand.-COLLAPSE

By Richard 16 on February 21, 2010 09:17 AM

Re: Servers

I am now getting email updates because I posted on this thread... but the updates are just a bunch of banter about servers and their deserved wages. In all of my years of working in restaurants, and going to restaurants, I've only met two people who consider being a waiter their occupation. That's the crux of this argument- people that are waiting tables, no matter how nice the...+READ

Re: Servers

I am now getting email updates because I posted on this thread... but the updates are just a bunch of banter about servers and their deserved wages. In all of my years of working in restaurants, and going to restaurants, I've only met two people who consider being a waiter their occupation. That's the crux of this argument- people that are waiting tables, no matter how nice the restaurant or how good the tips, are 99.9% likely to be aspiring _________. It's like going to a dentist, having him screw up your filling, and writing it off because what he really wants to do is be an acrobat, hence his presence is void while at work.-COLLAPSE

By Modelseatfree on February 20, 2010 08:34 PM

Re: Complain to the Restaurant Before Spewing Online

There are a few differences between eating at, for example, In-N-Out Burger and The Little Door. If you get your food from In-N-Out Burger, and it is not to your liking, the staff will, without question, happily remake your order, if not refund you. It would be quite different in a fine dining situation, as the patron and the wait...+READ

Re: Complain to the Restaurant Before Spewing Online

There are a few differences between eating at, for example, In-N-Out Burger and The Little Door. If you get your food from In-N-Out Burger, and it is not to your liking, the staff will, without question, happily remake your order, if not refund you. It would be quite different in a fine dining situation, as the patron and the wait staff/management establish a relationship of sorts that lasts throughout the visit to the restaurant. When you don't like your food, or wine, or service, it's really difficult to bring it up, and most times, even more difficult to face managers and waiters who feel as if they are under speculation. Basically, it becomes a passive-aggressive battle of the wills. Who wants to go to a nice dinner and start problems? It's actually easier to say something after the dinner, because then it doesn't ruin the mood. But most times that is passed of by management as an invisible comment card that will go into an invisible trash can as soon as that patron walks out the door. I have never had a meal comped because the carpaccio was tough, the vegetables were cold, and the service was bad... at least, not at a high end restaurant that prides itself on prestige. Negative input from the customer is not ever received well in such places, and complainers are written off as plebians with no taste for fine cuisine. My point: If you are a restaurateur, or employee of the like- the service, atmosphere, and most of all, the food should be flawless. That is the distinction between going to PF Changs as opposed to Campanile.

I think it's really repugnant to shun deserved online reviews. Yes, maybe a customer forgot a dish, or referred to it as by another name by mistake, but after all, most people reviewing online are not professional food critics, so the Moleskine probably wasn't out on the table at the restaurant. The average unsatisfied customer whom is dishing the dirt on a fine dining establishment via the web is most likely someone who was hoping for a very special evening, or afternoon, and maybe that customer did, in fact, hit the restaurant on an off-day. If a restaurateur planned a vacation for their family, and the service and experience was sub-par, I'm sure that they would be upset as well. I also found the discussion about wine above to be slightly offensive. I was raised in a home where impeccable manners were baseline standard- but my parents were extremely spendthrift as well, which has actually worked out swimmingly for them at present. If someone is coming into your restaurant with their own bottle, it's probably not because they are trying to "beat the system" or slight the restaurant. It's most likely due to the awful economic depression that is the contemporary American reality. The above recitation of dining faux pas is merely a backlash from business owners and managers who are now less likely to slide under the radar with bad service and inconsistent quality levels due to the fact that the days of wine and roses- a.k.a. per diem, luxury spending, etc.- are over. We are, as a society, rethinking the definition of luxury and worth.

modelseatfree.yelp.com-COLLAPSE

By Modelseatfree on February 20, 2010 05:34 PM

My pet hate in restaurants is servers who pick up your wine bottle (as if they bought it for you) and refill your glass to the top without even asking. Firstly this interrupts any private conversation you might be enjoying. Secondly, when there are several people at the table, they refill the glasses of those who didnt want any more wine, thus it is either wasted or, I have to order another...+READ

My pet hate in restaurants is servers who pick up your wine bottle (as if they bought it for you) and refill your glass to the top without even asking. Firstly this interrupts any private conversation you might be enjoying. Secondly, when there are several people at the table, they refill the glasses of those who didnt want any more wine, thus it is either wasted or, I have to order another bottle/glass or worst of all sheepishly ask the abstemious person for their wine, which you know they are not going to drink..!

I just hate good things going to waste, dont you?-COLLAPSE

By cape of good wine on February 20, 2010 03:36 PM

We do not like to get our main courses while finishing, or within minutes of finishing, our appetizers, especially as the main often shows signs of having sat around under the heat lamp. This has been a problem when restaurants have few customers or in certain ethnic places where 'everything on the table at once' seems to be the preferred way of eating.
We now order our appetizers and say that...+READ

We do not like to get our main courses while finishing, or within minutes of finishing, our appetizers, especially as the main often shows signs of having sat around under the heat lamp. This has been a problem when restaurants have few customers or in certain ethnic places where 'everything on the table at once' seems to be the preferred way of eating.
We now order our appetizers and say that we will decide on the main courses after we've eaten said appetizers. On occasion this has actually had the extra advantage of the experience of the starter changing one's mind about what one wanted to eat next.
I suppose this approach is not very popular in the kitchen but I guarantee that if my main comes on the heels of the starter I will never eat in that restaurant again no matter how wonderful the food..-COLLAPSE

By bruce in oakton on February 20, 2010 09:23 AM

RonfromLaos-
I am a server myself. I'll tell you exactly how much I make. $2.13 an hour. Tips are actually considered a part of my income. With minimum wage being $7.25, there's $5.12 an hour I have to make in tips just to make minimum wage, and minimum wage is not enough to live on. And I work at a sort of restaurant I would call "polished casual" with check averages being about 60-75 dollars. I...+READ

RonfromLaos-
I am a server myself. I'll tell you exactly how much I make. $2.13 an hour. Tips are actually considered a part of my income. With minimum wage being $7.25, there's $5.12 an hour I have to make in tips just to make minimum wage, and minimum wage is not enough to live on. And I work at a sort of restaurant I would call "polished casual" with check averages being about 60-75 dollars. I can't imagine how much harder it is for people that actually DO work at Denny's or any other type of diner.

Next time you're in the states, remember that. European servers normally get an hourly wage that's substantial. We, on the other hand, do not. We have bills to pay too, and with a 7 dollar tip on a 70 dollar check, you're making your server's life just a little bit harder.-COLLAPSE

By TheSkoo on February 20, 2010 08:07 AM

It would appear that RonfromLaos is taking the cultural expectations of one place and extending them to another. No qualifiers necessary, apparently. Jeez, and people accuse Americans of being arrogant.

Yes, perhaps we can all say that servers should get nothing directly from the customer and simply be paid a good wage. But the fact is that things work differently in the States, and I have...+READ

It would appear that RonfromLaos is taking the cultural expectations of one place and extending them to another. No qualifiers necessary, apparently. Jeez, and people accuse Americans of being arrogant.

Yes, perhaps we can all say that servers should get nothing directly from the customer and simply be paid a good wage. But the fact is that things work differently in the States, and I have seen first hand that better service is the result. I certainly "went the extra mile," quite literally one might say, when I delivered pizza in my younger days, knowing that the difference between a good night and a great night was how full my tip bucket was.

The only crime those "odious" Americans are guilty of is extending what they have always been taught is normal and polite to a place where practices are different, and where, apparently, the people are so provincial and snotty that they cannot simply be kind and accept a gift given in good faith.-COLLAPSE

By AndyMc on February 20, 2010 07:59 AM

OOPS, so sorry I meant Richard 16

By littlemama29 on February 19, 2010 07:43 PM

Richard18- leaving with an opened wine is not illegal everywhere. Where I live it's perfectly legal to drive with an opened bottle of wine. By law all you have to do is bag it and put it in the trunk.

By littlemama29 on February 19, 2010 07:43 PM

"Not tipping adequately is like cheating someone who works on commission out of their percentage. "
Absolute piffle. Getting a tip is not a right, it is a privilege for good service, or something done out of the extraordinary. Do you get a tip as a lawyer, teacher or bus driver etc etc?

By RonfromLaos on February 19, 2010 05:16 PM

I hope none of my server friends ever get RonfromLaos as a customer. Servers in America rarely make a living wage and depend on tips for their salary. Not tipping adequately is like cheating someone who works on commission out of their percentage.

By thursday on February 19, 2010 04:47 PM

A major gaffe is overtipping. 10% for excellent service is fine. 0% for terrible service is also fine; unfortunately it is usually Americans whp practice this odious habit.

By RonfromLaos on February 19, 2010 03:02 AM

Complaining to the restaurant before posting online is reasonable, but almost seems like a step we can skip anymore these days. I've written to numerous restaurants to complain or to applaud the service I have gotten. I have yet to get a single response (phone call, email, or letter) from ANY of them! What a way to show your customers that you want their business...

By FitzChivalry on February 18, 2010 06:50 AM

As a cook, there are plenty of really annoying things that a customer can do. However there is one that rises above the rest.

Folks....please....if you walk into a restaurant that is empty, and it closes in fifteen minutes or less...please, please, please go elsewhere. If it's busy, come on in.

Here's the deal: It's a Wednesday night, it's snowing, no one has come into the place since 8:03pm....+READ

As a cook, there are plenty of really annoying things that a customer can do. However there is one that rises above the rest.

Folks....please....if you walk into a restaurant that is empty, and it closes in fifteen minutes or less...please, please, please go elsewhere. If it's busy, come on in.

Here's the deal: It's a Wednesday night, it's snowing, no one has come into the place since 8:03pm. We close at 9:30...and here you come with your three friends at 9:22pm. Of course, we want your business....and we glad you chose to come to our place.....but trust me....you've just shattered the dreams of all those working that shift. The hostess, server, bartender, busser/runner have already had a long, slow night and made no money. Now its just been extended by an hour and a half. There are four cooks and two dishwashers that are now screaming at the server to get the order ASAP because we've been cleaning since 8:30 and are ready to go home.-COLLAPSE

By GreaseFire on February 17, 2010 07:00 AM

There are plenty of examples of rudeness, as we've already read here. Another example is the boor trying to impress a lady. Talks loudly on their cell, snaps at the server, complains about perfectly good food, insists on favors, etc.

It's tough to complain about good service, although a high end place should have well timed service. In my example the rude guy at first usually feels flattered by...+READ

There are plenty of examples of rudeness, as we've already read here. Another example is the boor trying to impress a lady. Talks loudly on their cell, snaps at the server, complains about perfectly good food, insists on favors, etc.

It's tough to complain about good service, although a high end place should have well timed service. In my example the rude guy at first usually feels flattered by all the attention. Then, as time goes on, the brief and oh-so-gentle appearances keep going. Since they're by different people it's hard to criticize.

And these people are horrific tippers.

OK, I only did it few times (hard to organize when busy) but they were very satisfying. And all they had to do was ask their server.-COLLAPSE

By Richard 16 on February 16, 2010 10:04 PM

Richard 16: I don't understand—what does it do? I mean, can you give an example of the sort of rudeness you're talking about and the effect "overservice" has?

By tatamagouche on February 16, 2010 10:49 AM

For a server one of the harder aspects of BYOB is cutting off a customer that's had too much. The customer is already drunk and you can't mollify them by not charging them for their wine, and in every place I've worked it's illegal to leave with an opened bottle.

For the servers and managers, here's a little trick for the rude customer: (I've posted this before on CH.) :
Over-service. One by...+READ

For a server one of the harder aspects of BYOB is cutting off a customer that's had too much. The customer is already drunk and you can't mollify them by not charging them for their wine, and in every place I've worked it's illegal to leave with an opened bottle.

For the servers and managers, here's a little trick for the rude customer: (I've posted this before on CH.) :
Over-service. One by one different servers and managers come by and *very* politely and quickly check on the table. Nothing pushy; It's the accumulation of visits that does it. It's actually fun.-COLLAPSE

By Richard 16 on February 16, 2010 09:16 AM

@ Kater and jindomommy: don't generalize with that "children thing". My two kids can behave in public places still I catch a glimpse of panic on server's face when he/she sees our family entering the restaurant. If someone from LA has a similar problem, here's a list of family restaurants in Los Angeles

By burito on February 16, 2010 03:25 AM

Shaogo: That's hilarious!

By tatamagouche on February 15, 2010 01:55 PM

We often pay the corkage fee...usually because we want to drink a wine that doesn't have a parallel on the wine list, but sometimes it's also because we know the restaurant's markup to be outrageous. We've often had the corkage fee waived when we also buy a bottle from the restaurant or send a glass to the waiter and to the chef.

Having lived in Philadelphia for several years, we tremendously...+READ

We often pay the corkage fee...usually because we want to drink a wine that doesn't have a parallel on the wine list, but sometimes it's also because we know the restaurant's markup to be outrageous. We've often had the corkage fee waived when we also buy a bottle from the restaurant or send a glass to the waiter and to the chef.

Having lived in Philadelphia for several years, we tremendously enjoyed all of the BYO restaurants. Some of those even hold the wine glasses of their best customers so that when they eat there again, they'll have their own glasses.-COLLAPSE

By foodwinemaven on February 15, 2010 01:52 PM

I understand a Mom and Pop not wanting to split a check, but i've never understood any place with a POS system not wanting to do it. I understand it adds time but if you have decent software it should just be the difference between 20 seconds and a minute. It seems like that is a very wise investment in time as it makes people happy.

By thirtyeyes on February 13, 2010 09:40 PM

tatamagouche:

Indeed there are people who say "Do you know who I am?" It takes a particular kind of warped mind to utter that to anyone.

Many years ago, when Studio 54 was New York's hottest spot, Joe Wech, one of the doormen helping owner Steven Rubell had a solution for the dimwits who'd come up to him with this attitude. Upon hearing the "do you know who I am," Joe would get on the phone...+READ

tatamagouche:

Indeed there are people who say "Do you know who I am?" It takes a particular kind of warped mind to utter that to anyone.

Many years ago, when Studio 54 was New York's hottest spot, Joe Wech, one of the doormen helping owner Steven Rubell had a solution for the dimwits who'd come up to him with this attitude. Upon hearing the "do you know who I am," Joe would get on the phone at the door, press the intercom and announce (to every extension/speaker at every station in the club) "There's a gentleman out here at the door who doesn't know who he is... could someone come out here and let us both know?"-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on February 13, 2010 08:35 PM

In Virginia it is about the taxes on the wine. The state wants to make sure they have been paid. A corkage fee can be applied if a wine/bar/restaurant has both an On and Off license. If you buy a bottle at the wine shop and take it into the dining area a corkage fee is charged. made.
Reservations: We will be reopening up in the next few months. Our reservation policy will be simple. No...+READ

In Virginia it is about the taxes on the wine. The state wants to make sure they have been paid. A corkage fee can be applied if a wine/bar/restaurant has both an On and Off license. If you buy a bottle at the wine shop and take it into the dining area a corkage fee is charged. made.
Reservations: We will be reopening up in the next few months. Our reservation policy will be simple. No Reservations. After twelve years it just was not worth it. E, people still do not bother to call.even though everyone seems to have a cell phone. We kept a list of no shows no calls.

Reviews- f you have 31 good reviews and one bad, Move on, you are never going to please every single person, that said we always would take every customer comment to heart and would act to rectify any problems.-COLLAPSE

By varestaurantowner on February 13, 2010 05:53 PM

Do people really say, "Do you know who I am?" That's mind-boggling.

By tatamagouche on February 13, 2010 09:55 AM

I had to sign up just to ask... why has no one mentioned cell phones? There is nothing worse in a restaurant than a patron yakking away on a cell phone... unless it's a restaurant employee doing the yakking.

By sandybella on February 13, 2010 09:03 AM

One of the other things that I find really irritating in restaurant "guests" are those boors who expect to be treated special because they think they are special. Many years ago I was in a nice place in DC when a patron was giving the server a hard time. When the manager came over I heard the "guest" give one of those "You know who I am? I'm a big person in this town." The manager, to his credit,...+READ

One of the other things that I find really irritating in restaurant "guests" are those boors who expect to be treated special because they think they are special. Many years ago I was in a nice place in DC when a patron was giving the server a hard time. When the manager came over I heard the "guest" give one of those "You know who I am? I'm a big person in this town." The manager, to his credit, said that he didn't care who he was, he didn't expect his servers to be abused. The funny thing was that sitting two tables away was Senator Levin, a really big guy in this town.-COLLAPSE

By dinwiddie on February 13, 2010 07:32 AM

ratbuddy made me laugh. I'm pretty sure soupkitten doesn't work at Denny's -- I think she works someplace upscale in NYC.

Which brings me to why I thought ratbuddy's comment was so funny. Sure, there are plenty of people who go to Denny's who're poorly behaved or whose kids are poorly behaved.

But worse, much worse, are some of the hipster haunts in New York and even in Hartford, CT where...+READ

ratbuddy made me laugh. I'm pretty sure soupkitten doesn't work at Denny's -- I think she works someplace upscale in NYC.

Which brings me to why I thought ratbuddy's comment was so funny. Sure, there are plenty of people who go to Denny's who're poorly behaved or whose kids are poorly behaved.

But worse, much worse, are some of the hipster haunts in New York and even in Hartford, CT where we're from. The entitled boors who go out to these places feel because they're spending $15 a cocktail and $40 a plate for dinner they can...

verbally abuse the hostess
verbally abuse the servers
verbally abuse the bartenders
verbally abuse each other
cut in line for the bathroom
attempt to dine 'n dash -- attempt, mind you.
throw things (rolls, bones, olives) at busboys/servers to get their attention
fight with each other
spray the bouncers with mace
stiff the servers (short-tip/no-tip)
vomit on the table, floor, anywhere but the toilet

... and the winner is:

law students/paralegals/other non-lawyers who threaten to sue because they got poor service or (perceived) bad food.-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on February 12, 2010 09:40 PM

Holy crap soupkitten. Do you work in a Denny's or something?

By ratbuddy on February 12, 2010 07:30 PM

with due respect, i'd retitle this piece: "four things to do if you want to piss off a restaurant's management."

there are far worse things customers do in restaurants than failing to cancel a reservation or offer a som 1/2 a glass of a mediocre mass-marketed domestic wine they brought in to get around wine list markups. . .

how about: please don't sexually harass your server/bartender? don't...+READ

with due respect, i'd retitle this piece: "four things to do if you want to piss off a restaurant's management."

there are far worse things customers do in restaurants than failing to cancel a reservation or offer a som 1/2 a glass of a mediocre mass-marketed domestic wine they brought in to get around wine list markups. . .

how about: please don't sexually harass your server/bartender? don't physically assault other patrons or members of staff? don't throw stuff? don't send anyone to the hospital or morgue? don't vomit on the table/bar or allow your toddler to vomit all over the table, then skip out on your bill, leaving some poor bus boy to clean up the biohazard while the rest of the patrons hurriedly vacate the establishment in disgust? don't insult the chef, or anyone else for that matter? don't hold your server to unrealistic expectations based on feudal laws of servitude? don't hip-check a buffet attendant carrying a 40 lb scalding hot steam table pan full of sloshing, bubbly gravy/sauce because you want to get to the fresh food before anyone else? don't dine and dash? don't stiff your server? don't let unruly children run around the restaurant, tripping servers carrying heavy trays laden with food/bev? don't drink too much and _______?

i could go on and on, but etiquette in restaurants is simple. be nice. be polite. treat your server and other members of staff as if they are human beings worthy of respect. enjoy yourself. don't do anything in a restaurant you wouldn't do at your sister-in-law's house. nice begets nice. courtesy begets courtesy. pleasant people enjoy pleasant experiences and are welcomed back with open arms, again and again.

thankfully, most people are pleasant, though sometimes, from a hospitality workers' perspective-- it can sometimes take only one determinedly unpleasant person to ruin an evening for many folks. sure there are little gaffes and missteps but hospitality workers are pretty much unfailingly forgiving of any little faux pas, including the 4 relatively minor ones helena offers-- as long as the person is *nice*!-COLLAPSE

By soupkitten on February 12, 2010 09:06 AM

conquer, I've got to say I've never understood the whole hate towards children at a restaurant. I mean the kids have gotta eat too right?
I agree with mckerr. It's the parents job to raise their children to be respectful in public places, and most of them do.

The other things on this list are kinda foreign to me though. Two of them (3,4) are about wine, and the fourth is silly. The people...+READ

conquer, I've got to say I've never understood the whole hate towards children at a restaurant. I mean the kids have gotta eat too right?
I agree with mckerr. It's the parents job to raise their children to be respectful in public places, and most of them do.

The other things on this list are kinda foreign to me though. Two of them (3,4) are about wine, and the fourth is silly. The people reading online reviews - I do regularly - should be able to take the reviews on there with a grain of salt. That being said, if there are 15 reviews and 10 of them say the place is terrible, it's more likely the truth.-COLLAPSE

By BenCruz on February 11, 2010 02:16 PM

Wow, conquer. A sweeping generalization that Insults the entirety of parents as a group. Thumbs up on that sweet nugget of etiquette.

By mckerr on February 11, 2010 10:03 AM

With regard to bringing your own wine, please remember that
#1, aren't restaurants in business to sell food & wine? and #2,
it is illegal in some states (including MA) to allow BYOB, with or w/o a corkage fee.
Exceptions can always be made for special occasions or special bottles (but you must call in advance!)

By ABACO50 on February 10, 2010 04:14 PM

1. Children.

2. Children.

3. Children.

4. Children.

By conquer on February 10, 2010 06:42 AM

I've worked in restaurant for many, many years and these are hardly the worst etiquette gaffes. Rather, the "gaffes" listed are annoyances that affect the bottom dollar line in a restaurant's profit. Most restaurants make there money off of at least a 100% beverage/liquor profit. Many restaurants overbook to begin with...and yes, calling to cancel is nice, but often times you are put on hold...+READ

I've worked in restaurant for many, many years and these are hardly the worst etiquette gaffes. Rather, the "gaffes" listed are annoyances that affect the bottom dollar line in a restaurant's profit. Most restaurants make there money off of at least a 100% beverage/liquor profit. Many restaurants overbook to begin with...and yes, calling to cancel is nice, but often times you are put on hold forever. And I don't agree that you always have to voice your concerns before you post something online. Good restaurants have managers that go around and make sure guest are happy. Now if management asks you and you decline to comment only to post an online criticism, I have a problem with that.

Worst etiquette gaffes? Bringing little packets of brown rice for the 5 star chef to cook because you don't eat white rice. Stiffing a good server with a tip of less than 10%. Thinking you can touch the waitress or waiter. Being a party of say 10 or more and asking for separate checks on a busy night. Leaving nasty chicken wing bones on the table that the server does not have gloves to pick up. Letting your obnoxious children roll and over the restaurant floor while wait staff walk by with hot plates of food.-COLLAPSE

By jindomommy on February 9, 2010 12:23 PM

I worry that point number four asks the consumer to put the restaurant's interests before her own. (And I don't think any of us are falling for the notion that restaurants offer great $19 wines, no one wants to pay $20 for a $6 bottle of no matter how tasty, just as we resent paying $90 for a $27 bottle and so forth).

At any rate, the internet age has given consumers the ability to share...+READ

I worry that point number four asks the consumer to put the restaurant's interests before her own. (And I don't think any of us are falling for the notion that restaurants offer great $19 wines, no one wants to pay $20 for a $6 bottle of no matter how tasty, just as we resent paying $90 for a $27 bottle and so forth).

At any rate, the internet age has given consumers the ability to share feedback about businesses and how they perform. I don't feel that I have seek out the owners or managers of restaurants before accurately an fairly sharing my view online. I am not a complainer. I graciously pay my bill and never return if I am not pleased. And years ago I would also make a point of warning friends but now I can do that a lot more effectively by posting the feedback online.

Certainly it is best to be fair and honest. I think people are perfectly capable of that and when they are not reasonable or don't share my aesthetic I can usually pick that up pretty easily when reading a review.

When I buy a book from Barnes and Noble or choose a recipe from Epicurious, the user reviews are invaluable. Of course you dismiss some of them, you have to read through and find a reviewer who seems reliable.

At any rate, while I can agree that we should all exercise restraint when providing reviews, I also think that we have no obligation to give the management a tutorial. Negative reviews online come from unhappy customers, it's probably most productive to address the problems if you're getting then on a routine basis.-COLLAPSE

By Kater on February 9, 2010 11:27 AM

@Caitlin McGrath:

The $10 corkage I asked that particular customer was arbitrarily made up by me on the spur of the moment. Although he's been told that it's really not a good idea, this boor insists on continuing to bring wine to the restaurant. I tried to use the "corkage fee" to dissuade him from opening an outside bottle in the restaurant. It didn't work. Had I out-and-out forbidden his...+READ

@Caitlin McGrath:

The $10 corkage I asked that particular customer was arbitrarily made up by me on the spur of the moment. Although he's been told that it's really not a good idea, this boor insists on continuing to bring wine to the restaurant. I tried to use the "corkage fee" to dissuade him from opening an outside bottle in the restaurant. It didn't work. Had I out-and-out forbidden his opening of the bottle, I'd have compounded his already horrendous behavior.

The laws in our state our aimed at controlling the tax paid on alcohol -- one or two bottles that we don't have a wholesale invoice for is indeed a violation but one that pales in comparison to the much more serious ones that we read about in the newspapers on a daily basis.-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on February 9, 2010 09:40 AM

Bringing wine to a restaurant is a power/control issue and as such is simply the height of arrogance and insult to the restaurant. It always causes a huge discussion and I have seen it ruin an entire evening. Stay home if you want to drink your own wine.

By Giselle on February 9, 2010 08:06 AM

@alexwalker - I'm also British so I knew what you meant by clicking, I also, being from a different country than the US and so taking note of cultural differences, know of 'snapping'; although 'snap' as a sound comes from the action of breaking something, wheras 'click' is defined as a quick sharp sound. I'd say 'click' is probably more correct.

Anyway, all of these points don't come close to...+READ

@alexwalker - I'm also British so I knew what you meant by clicking, I also, being from a different country than the US and so taking note of cultural differences, know of 'snapping'; although 'snap' as a sound comes from the action of breaking something, wheras 'click' is defined as a quick sharp sound. I'd say 'click' is probably more correct.

Anyway, all of these points don't come close to etiquette of manners, including holding your knife and fork (period, as opposed to cutting your food with your fork), eating with your mouth closed, taking your jacket off at dinner, saying thank you to the server, and of course not talking when you have a mouth full of food.-COLLAPSE

By Nicanac on February 9, 2010 08:02 AM

Shaogo, why/how do you charge $10 for corkage at your restaurant if bringing wine to a restaurant is illegal in your state?

By Caitlin McGrath on February 8, 2010 11:39 AM

I am in total agreement with numbers 1, 3, and 4. I also agree with some of the other posters that this is written from the restaurantier's point of view and even more important is to remember how to behave in a restaurant. Even though you are a customer, you are also a guest and should act like one.

However, I am one of those people who often avails myself of corkage policies. There are a...+READ

I am in total agreement with numbers 1, 3, and 4. I also agree with some of the other posters that this is written from the restaurantier's point of view and even more important is to remember how to behave in a restaurant. Even though you are a customer, you are also a guest and should act like one.

However, I am one of those people who often avails myself of corkage policies. There are a couple of reasons. First and foremost, I collect wine, mainly small production wines that are never on a wine list, at least not here on the east coast, or mid tier classified growth French wines and Italian wines that I can keep in the cellar for years if not decades. I often bring wines with me that have some age on them, wines from the 70s, 80s and early 90s that have had the opportunity to age properly and are now drinking at their peak. Again, these wines are not on the list of most restaurants. On the other hand, some restaurants where the food is excellent, have horrible lists at obscene prices. I'd much prefer to bring something that goes well with the meal than have to drink plonk.

Corkage is also something different depending on where you live. Here in the DC area, corkage is illegal in Virginia, very rare in Maryland (and not legal in Montgomery County which is right next to DC) and in DC only a restaurant with an alcohol license is permitted to offer it. Contrast that to NJ or PA where corkage is very common because many restaurants do not have a license. Some of my favorite restaurants in the Philadelphia area are BYO only.

I'm not suprised that Paul Einbund doesn't like corkage. I'm sure that his restaurant, Frances, has a very nice, well thought out wine list (I can't say for sure as I've never eaten there and their website doesn't give any indication.) However, anyone in the wine community who has been paying attention knows that many restaurants in the City don't like it when people bring their own wine, but have a difficult time discouraging the practice due to the advanced wine culture there and the proximity to Wine Country. After all, the competition for diners in SF is fierce and the profit margins are small.

I have no sympathy with folks who bring a bottle of cheap wine to a restaurant that has a wine list just to save money. In most cases, a restaurant with a decent list can provide you with something that is drinkable at a reasonable price. However, that is in most cases, as is evident on the wine boards, many folks are angry about the markup on wine, regardless of whether the percentage markup on coffee or soft drinks is many times higher.

As many have noted, there are some rules of common courtesy when bringing your own wine. Never bring something that is on the restaurant's list. Always call and make sure that it is ok first. Offer your sommelier a taste. Heck, I offer my server, the chef, and sometimes the folks at the table next to me a taste. What is the fun of having good wine if you can't share it? However, as any sommelier will tell you, "a sip is not a tip." Make sure you add something to the tip of your server if you are bringing your own wine to make up for the fact that you did not buy something from the list.-COLLAPSE

By dinwiddie on February 8, 2010 07:07 AM

Have to disagree with #3, as many others have. First, far, far to many restaurants have bad winelists or some are just plain boring. Almost always wines by the glass are even worse. Second, cost, sometimes bringing my own wine is the difference between going to the restaurant I want and staying home so I can drink the wine I want. As many others have stated, the cost of winelists are totally...+READ

Have to disagree with #3, as many others have. First, far, far to many restaurants have bad winelists or some are just plain boring. Almost always wines by the glass are even worse. Second, cost, sometimes bringing my own wine is the difference between going to the restaurant I want and staying home so I can drink the wine I want. As many others have stated, the cost of winelists are totally inflated. I have been to restaurant that are now pushing 4x the retail price. Once again wines by the glass are worse. I was at a restaurant that served Kim Crawford Sauv Blanc for $13 a glass, that is the price of a bottle of same wine at Trader Joes!!!Additionally, I find that if I stick with the low cost wines (even at restaurants that put effort into their list) I usually get stuck with something from the new world or very limited choices. I like new world wines but usually when I eat out I like old world wines. If a restaurant doesn't want to let me bring my own wine fine (though I usually wont go) just don't allow wines from outside, period.-COLLAPSE

By AaronSchaefer on February 7, 2010 06:36 PM

I think this article is completely off base. Most of these items are things that a restaurant should deal with effectively rather than expect the diner to adjust. Some of these items relate to how a diner could have a better experience but discussing in terms of etiquette is pretentious.

I agree that item #1 is bad for the restaurant and other diners, but this is why most restaurants ask for a...+READ

I think this article is completely off base. Most of these items are things that a restaurant should deal with effectively rather than expect the diner to adjust. Some of these items relate to how a diner could have a better experience but discussing in terms of etiquette is pretentious.

I agree that item #1 is bad for the restaurant and other diners, but this is why most restaurants ask for a telephone number. If you are a chronic no-show, they can quit taking your reservations. As for items 2 and 3, there is seriously flawed logic here. Apparently it is fairly difficult to assemble a great wine list with reasonable prices. In this environment, corkage is really the only solution and nobody should feel like a second class diner for fixing a problem that the restaurant can't or isn't motivated to solve. Also the bit about offering a glass is just preposterous. I often do this if I want to establish a better relationship with the waiter, sommelier or chef, but to suggest that it is de rigueur is a joke.

Finally, it is the sommelier's job to figure out how to help the customer not the other way around. It might be easier to get better service from the sommelier if you communicate well, but it does not mean you are rude if you can't or don't. A great sommelier will have a great wine list with reasonable prices and be able to figure out what you will like when you don't know yourself.-COLLAPSE

By sazerac70 on February 7, 2010 03:25 PM

"Gee that never happens" is intended to indicate that it's not a routine experience, but should immediately be followed by "I'll get a manager", "I'll let the chef know" or "we'll address that immediately".

(I work as a hotel concierge, and we frequently have guests complain about things or places that nobody has even complained about. I want to let them know we didn't intentionally send them...+READ

"Gee that never happens" is intended to indicate that it's not a routine experience, but should immediately be followed by "I'll get a manager", "I'll let the chef know" or "we'll address that immediately".

(I work as a hotel concierge, and we frequently have guests complain about things or places that nobody has even complained about. I want to let them know we didn't intentionally send them somewhere we know is complaint-worthy, but don't want to dismiss their experience, either... hence the two-part statement. And usually it's best to start with the "I'll let someone know", then reassure them that it's not the usual situation to hear a negative comment.)-COLLAPSE

By waldrons on February 7, 2010 03:05 PM

okay this complaint about "camping out", I have to question. I tend to be a dine and go person myself, but if some people like to sit around and converse or read a newspaper or whatever, then I don't see that as a fault.

By herbert1 on February 7, 2010 08:21 AM

re: lorax1284,

The "gee that never happens" response you received really struck a chord with me. Recently (and granted, this problem is more with customer service people on the phone and not in-person experiences where I can typically show the person the problem, but...) I have heard "we have never had anybody complain about that before" more and more. What, you plan to ignore my complaint and...+READ

re: lorax1284,

The "gee that never happens" response you received really struck a chord with me. Recently (and granted, this problem is more with customer service people on the phone and not in-person experiences where I can typically show the person the problem, but...) I have heard "we have never had anybody complain about that before" more and more. What, you plan to ignore my complaint and I suppose the next dozen or so until you have what you consider to be a statistically significant sampling?-COLLAPSE

By AndyMc on February 7, 2010 05:09 AM

re #4, I got full-on FOOD POISONING at a restaurant in New York City (a big, expensive one) and when I went back the next day to mentioned it to the hostess, an "oh, really" and "gee that never happens" and so on. Not a "I'll get the manager immediately" and so on. I don't even think they tried to get to the bottom of it (I had the same dish as the person next to me, but he was smart enough to...+READ

re #4, I got full-on FOOD POISONING at a restaurant in New York City (a big, expensive one) and when I went back the next day to mentioned it to the hostess, an "oh, really" and "gee that never happens" and so on. Not a "I'll get the manager immediately" and so on. I don't even think they tried to get to the bottom of it (I had the same dish as the person next to me, but he was smart enough to order the lobster WITHOUT the hollandaise. That was a rough night, let me tell you.-COLLAPSE

By lorax1284 on February 6, 2010 03:49 PM

deep: Ick.

When it comes to treating servers badly, I'd like to believe in karma.

And w/r/t complaining: of course it's necessary sometimes—if a dish isn't cooked properly or something and has to sent back, for instance—and should be done on the spot rather than saved up for a nasty online review. But there's a difference between pointing out a problem and complaining. I *hate* it when a...+READ

deep: Ick.

When it comes to treating servers badly, I'd like to believe in karma.

And w/r/t complaining: of course it's necessary sometimes—if a dish isn't cooked properly or something and has to sent back, for instance—and should be done on the spot rather than saved up for a nasty online review. But there's a difference between pointing out a problem and complaining. I *hate* it when a customer goes on and on to a server about how this is terrible and that's terrible. The server's just the messenger, man, it's not his/her fault.

I've never worked in a restaurant as waitstaff, and I'd never want to, being a) lazy and b) kinda antisocial. I'm sure there are lots of great things about it, but it's often a tough gig, and the fact that there are people who don't recognize and respect that never ceases to appall me.-COLLAPSE

By tatamagouche on February 6, 2010 12:27 PM

@tatmagouche
Just an idiot who swallowed their coke five minutes after I gave it to them (like in the time it took for me to set it down on his table and then turn around and start writing down orders for another table) and expected me to get him another one immediately. It was an adult guy who was sitting with his wife and kids, and they just acted like it was the most normal thing in the world.

By deep on February 5, 2010 05:33 PM

Wow, shaogo—pretty juicy story. Sorry you had to go through that though!

Ditto to you, deep—getting poked in the back?! Was the person drunk? Angry? Or just an idiot?

By tatamagouche on February 5, 2010 12:02 PM

My general rule of thumb is to treat the wait staff as politely as you would like to be treated. Using a pleasant tone of voice helps, too; right or wrong, nobody likes to be snapped at, and a cold tone of voice won't win you any points, either.

By DorianKTB on February 5, 2010 11:12 AM

tatamagouche,

The chicken-throwing lady was an hysterical older woman who just wasn't happy at all about her experience. I felt really, really bad for the three people who were with her. She threw the chicken at me after one of her fellow diners asked her, in my presence, if she'd please shut up with regard to *his* entree and focus her complaints on her own entree (at which time she says...+READ

tatamagouche,

The chicken-throwing lady was an hysterical older woman who just wasn't happy at all about her experience. I felt really, really bad for the three people who were with her. She threw the chicken at me after one of her fellow diners asked her, in my presence, if she'd please shut up with regard to *his* entree and focus her complaints on her own entree (at which time she says "well look! it's all rubbery crap! How can they serve this rubber! [now she's shaking and tears are coming out of her eyes] and she points at me and says "you ought to be ashamed of yourself" and then threw the chicken). So she was really upset at the guy she was eating with because he no longer wanted her to complain about what *he* was eating.

On the way out another one of her fellow diners told me she'd nearly been arrested after throwing a plate on the floor in a popular upscale restaurant nearby.-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on February 5, 2010 11:05 AM

As someone who has been in the wine industry, I am fully aware that managers/wine buyers do not always have "really, really good" wines at a lower price point. Sometimes wine buyers will select a wine because it's a great deal, not because they think it's actually good.

Moreover, the doubling or tripling of wholesale prices to make money off the wine list makes me upset.

So I completely...+READ

As someone who has been in the wine industry, I am fully aware that managers/wine buyers do not always have "really, really good" wines at a lower price point. Sometimes wine buyers will select a wine because it's a great deal, not because they think it's actually good.

Moreover, the doubling or tripling of wholesale prices to make money off the wine list makes me upset.

So I completely disagree with the idea that bringing your own bottle of wine is a gaffe. If a restaurant has great wines that are reasonably priced, great, but that is more often not the case.-COLLAPSE

By northbayfoodie on February 5, 2010 11:01 AM

I wouldn't say that clicking or snapping is the #1 rudest thing you can do to a server. For me it's touching. You should NEVER have to lay a finger on the staff. It's creepy and rude.

I don't mind it so much when the old ladies would clasp my arms when ordering (although it did scare the hell out of me more than once), but when walking by a table and feeling a tug on my apron was inexcusable...+READ

I wouldn't say that clicking or snapping is the #1 rudest thing you can do to a server. For me it's touching. You should NEVER have to lay a finger on the staff. It's creepy and rude.

I don't mind it so much when the old ladies would clasp my arms when ordering (although it did scare the hell out of me more than once), but when walking by a table and feeling a tug on my apron was inexcusable and dangerous to a server carrying hot plates. Even worse was when I was taking another tables order when someone from the table behind me tried to get my attention by leaning out of their chair and continuously poking me in the back!

You would think adults would know better.-COLLAPSE

By deep on February 5, 2010 10:24 AM

I don't see what the problem is about offering the sommelier (not the server) a taste of some wine that you've brought if they're not familiar with it.

As for "drinking on the job", the sommelier frequently tastes wines they serve to make sure they're not spoiled, so having a taste (not a glass) of ours isn't going to impair them. If it's illegal to drink on the job, does that mean the somm...+READ

I don't see what the problem is about offering the sommelier (not the server) a taste of some wine that you've brought if they're not familiar with it.

As for "drinking on the job", the sommelier frequently tastes wines they serve to make sure they're not spoiled, so having a taste (not a glass) of ours isn't going to impair them. If it's illegal to drink on the job, does that mean the somm can't actually taste wines before serving? Or wine makers can't taste their blendings? Seems to me the law wouldn't apply in those cases when drinking is actually part of the job.-COLLAPSE

By waldrons on February 5, 2010 09:44 AM

Tatamagouche, agree that rudeness is the first problem that should be eliminated. One shouldn't need an etiquette column to say ""treat people kindly". Though if you are an adult who hasn't learned that yet, reading it in a column probably isn't going to help. That said, it is a lesson that could be learned by the waitstaff too. It is a service industry. Snapping fingers at someone is rude, but...+READ

Tatamagouche, agree that rudeness is the first problem that should be eliminated. One shouldn't need an etiquette column to say ""treat people kindly". Though if you are an adult who hasn't learned that yet, reading it in a column probably isn't going to help. That said, it is a lesson that could be learned by the waitstaff too. It is a service industry. Snapping fingers at someone is rude, but so is eye rolling, blaming customers, etc which I have witnessed from waitstaff at restaurants. A little Golden Rule could go a long way on both sides. I suspect that the chicken thrower also is rude to receptionists, people working at customer service counters, flight attendants, and anyone else they deem beneath them.-COLLAPSE

By mountaincachers on February 5, 2010 08:01 AM

I agree with #4, but I also agree with everyone that the #1 gaffe is rudeness—not that anyone would need an etiquette column to tell them so.

Shaogo—agreeing that there is no rationale for throwing chicken at you, come ON! You've got to give us some context for that one!

By tatamagouche on February 5, 2010 06:33 AM

Yes, there may have been an odd attempt at corkage fees "droit de bouchon" here in Montréal, but here and elsewhere in Québec byow restaurants are just that, and there are some very good ones.

Shooting rival gang members, also known as "settling of accounts" is very poor restaurant etiquette.

By lagatta on February 4, 2010 04:33 PM

Helena's list is good. I'd have added "treat your server like a human being" first and foremost. I had a grown woman toss a hunk of chicken at my shirt. I'm not going to tell you her rationale because there's *no* acceptable rationale for throwing food at a restaurateur nor anyone else.

I have had cheapies bring a bottle of wine into our establishment, even though it's against (Connecticut)...+READ

Helena's list is good. I'd have added "treat your server like a human being" first and foremost. I had a grown woman toss a hunk of chicken at my shirt. I'm not going to tell you her rationale because there's *no* acceptable rationale for throwing food at a restaurateur nor anyone else.

I have had cheapies bring a bottle of wine into our establishment, even though it's against (Connecticut) state law. One of these imbeciles actually orders from our finest wines when someone else is paying. But on his dime he brings in a $6 bottle of tannic yet off-dry crap, expects, because he's sampled some of our wine list's top items that he can get me to waive the $10 corkage (he doesn't) and despite that he offers me a glass of the stuff and expects me to drink it. I don't. I'm talking about a wine that's inferior to our humblest "house wine" offering.

Camping out can be really harmful to a restaurant with very high overhead.

Sadly, I've had a lot of experience with people with poor restaurant manners. They're always the ones who're wondering to themselves (or worse, out loud, to me) why they never have a good time when they go out. They ask me why the table near them got two appetizers, with paired glasses of wine, compliments of the house, yet they got nothing compliments of the house (except the lemon in their ice water). They're always going to feel left out yet be clueless as to the cause.

Indeed, those who most need a little change are going to be the most oblivious to the advice contained hereinabove. But, hey, as restaurant customers and restaurant workers, I think we can all see a silver lining to this cloud. The folks with really, really bad restaurant behavior flail about in complete ignorance often to great comic effect. And Lord knows we all could use a little entertainment with dinner nowadays.-COLLAPSE

By shaogo on February 4, 2010 10:50 AM

Im so happy that in Montreal if you are allowed to bring your own wine wine there is NEVER a corkage fee

By kpaxonite on February 4, 2010 09:16 AM

The second point has nothing to do with etiquette. If the restaurant permits patrons to bring their own wine, they can do it guilt-free -- without having to share with the sommelier. (Seriously? The corkage fee isn't enough?)

As for online reviews, sometimes it's not worth complaining to the restaurant. Sometimes the food or overall experience are just underwhelming, without any obvious (and...+READ

The second point has nothing to do with etiquette. If the restaurant permits patrons to bring their own wine, they can do it guilt-free -- without having to share with the sommelier. (Seriously? The corkage fee isn't enough?)

As for online reviews, sometimes it's not worth complaining to the restaurant. Sometimes the food or overall experience are just underwhelming, without any obvious (and fixable) missteps. But if you're upset about something specific -- whether it's undercooked eggs or surly waitstaff -- please take your beef to the source.

I would say a worst offense is camping out at your table when the restaurant is obviously busy. If there are lots of free tables, by all means, stay -- but at least order another drink.-COLLAPSE

By piccola on February 3, 2010 05:59 PM

Right on Christina. Those are the most common horrors perpetuated on wait-staff by spoilt customers. The gaffes listed above are certainly rude, but are complaints from a management point of view; not the people who are actually working front of house (not to mention the kitchen).
I think the world would be a better place if everyone, in their youth perhaps, (so as to carry the memory with them)...+READ

Right on Christina. Those are the most common horrors perpetuated on wait-staff by spoilt customers. The gaffes listed above are certainly rude, but are complaints from a management point of view; not the people who are actually working front of house (not to mention the kitchen).
I think the world would be a better place if everyone, in their youth perhaps, (so as to carry the memory with them) got to experience what it is like to wait upon, cater to, and clean up after their fellow human beings. Basic commonsense manners are sadly lacking these days.
And can you see a management approval on giving a working employee a drink?! Holy lawsuit Batman!!!-COLLAPSE

By weewah on February 3, 2010 05:12 PM

ChristinaMason, I totally agree! I've been a server too & there are far worse things than the ones Helena lists. I think because she spoke only to restaurateurs, she got the perspective of people who are worried simply about the "business" aspect of it (ie, the money!) rather than the people in the kitchen or on the floor that are dealing directly with the customers. That's why all of the things...+READ

ChristinaMason, I totally agree! I've been a server too & there are far worse things than the ones Helena lists. I think because she spoke only to restaurateurs, she got the perspective of people who are worried simply about the "business" aspect of it (ie, the money!) rather than the people in the kitchen or on the floor that are dealing directly with the customers. That's why all of the things listed are pretty much about $$$.

But yeah, snapping your fingers at a waiter/waitress? TOTALLY unacceptable. I also have to say that as a former server I would never expect guests to share their wine with me, and as a customer I think it's bizarre that I would be expected to share my wine with my server.-COLLAPSE

By MaddyK on February 3, 2010 03:51 PM

Don't forget....most restaurants will not allow you to bring a wine that is on their list. Corkage or not!

By rifkind81 on February 3, 2010 02:07 PM

I've served in a restaurant, and to my mind, these are hardly the four worst gaffes. How about being rude to the server (aggressive, impolite, lecherous, etc.)? Insisting on a special menu (i.e., vegan) without calling ahead? Excessive PDA at the table? Failing to tip in the upper range for good service? Complaining at the *end* of your meal that something you finished was not done to your...+READ

I've served in a restaurant, and to my mind, these are hardly the four worst gaffes. How about being rude to the server (aggressive, impolite, lecherous, etc.)? Insisting on a special menu (i.e., vegan) without calling ahead? Excessive PDA at the table? Failing to tip in the upper range for good service? Complaining at the *end* of your meal that something you finished was not done to your liking? Camping out at a table when a restaurant is totally swamped and hungry people are waiting? Bringing a 2-for-1 coupon, eating two entrees (no drinks, appetizers, or desserts) and tipping on the reduced-price total?

To me, those are far worse sins.-COLLAPSE

By ChristinaMason on February 3, 2010 01:22 PM

I believe that corkage is a relatively new concept, along with the idea that we as customers in a restaurant have the absolute right to bring in our own wine. But in fact, corkage is a courtesy that a restaurant may choose to extend, but it is not required. What is happening is that you are enjoying the service (including washing the dishes - wine glasses too), ambience, glassware, dishes, and...+READ

I believe that corkage is a relatively new concept, along with the idea that we as customers in a restaurant have the absolute right to bring in our own wine. But in fact, corkage is a courtesy that a restaurant may choose to extend, but it is not required. What is happening is that you are enjoying the service (including washing the dishes - wine glasses too), ambience, glassware, dishes, and cuisine from a business while expecting to bring your own item that the restaurant is in business to sell. You wouldn't expect to have the right to bring your own soup but enjoy the restaurant's main course, would you?-COLLAPSE

By Kathleen M on February 3, 2010 10:37 AM

@VikingKvinna I'm British; I guess we say things slightly differently where I'm from. Yes, "snapping" is a suitable synonym.

By alexwalker on February 3, 2010 08:53 AM

WTH does "clicking fingers" mean? Do you mean "snapping fingers"?

As far as online reviews go, I wholeheartedly agree that making sure you're reviewing an actual dish the restaurant serves is a good idea. But there are so many more things that go into a good restaurant experience. The manners of the staff, in particular -- I have zero problem leaving a scathing online review of a restaurant...+READ

WTH does "clicking fingers" mean? Do you mean "snapping fingers"?

As far as online reviews go, I wholeheartedly agree that making sure you're reviewing an actual dish the restaurant serves is a good idea. But there are so many more things that go into a good restaurant experience. The manners of the staff, in particular -- I have zero problem leaving a scathing online review of a restaurant when I am treated shabbily. There is absolutely no excuse for an employee to argue with a customer during her visit, and other potential patrons deserve to know that the management tolerates such behavior. You can have the best food in the world, but if you treat me like something you scraped off your shoe? I'll go elsewhere.-COLLAPSE

By VikingKvinna on February 3, 2010 08:47 AM

Re: #3, communication with the sommelier should include a price range, either explicit ("we'd like something in the $50 - $75 range that will complement our meal choices") or implicit (mentioning a few bottles that you're considering). In most cases a good sommelier will suggest something eminently suitable that's below the top of your range.

By BobB on February 3, 2010 08:40 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with number 4. I don't think it's fair to trash someone's business if you haven't let them know that you are unhappy and given them a chance to fix it. Also, was the food bad, or did it turn out that you don't like skate/liver/fennel or whatever you tried off the menu?

By mountaincachers on February 3, 2010 06:39 AM

Like this, but I think the custom of offering the sommelier a glass is just plain idiotic -- not to mention it's illegal for people serving alcohol to drink on the job in many states, mine included.

I don't bring my own wine, partly because of this stupid tradition. It makes me think of a really good Greek place I used to patronize, but quit because it had no license, and the owner would always...+READ

Like this, but I think the custom of offering the sommelier a glass is just plain idiotic -- not to mention it's illegal for people serving alcohol to drink on the job in many states, mine included.

I don't bring my own wine, partly because of this stupid tradition. It makes me think of a really good Greek place I used to patronize, but quit because it had no license, and the owner would always sit down at your table and pour himself a BIG glass of you wine. Classless.-COLLAPSE

By dmd_kc on February 2, 2010 09:44 PM

Surely you have missed the worst crime of all: Clicking fingers to get the attention of the waiting staff? *shudder*

By alexwalker on February 2, 2010 06:13 PM