
Dear Helena,
My father-in-law is a major wine bore. He pores endlessly over the wine list, cross-examines the sommelier, makes a big song and dance of swirling, sniffing, and slurping, and then drones on about the “undertones of damp gingerbread and slightly overcooked blackberry jam.” Then it’s on to comparing this wine with other wines from the same producer or region, and blah blah blah. I try to change the topic, but he ignores me. Is there any way to stop him? He’s actually pretty cool most of the time.
—Shut Up and Drink
Dear Shut Up and Drink,
Overintellectualizing what should be a sensual experience is a sure way to take the fun out of it. And these days, you’ll encounter not just wine snobs, but craft beer snobs. However, the way to draw people in is not to intimidate them. “The ones who are really passionate … are asking you questions like ‘What do you get out of this?’ and ‘What does it remind you of?’” says Michael Jones-Morales, a wine seller in Los Angeles.
All that showing off is a desperate attempt to bolster a fragile ego. That’s why the typical wine-bore monologue often comprises a “tasting résumé,” says Hannah Blumenstiel, a lawyer in San Francisco who has attended many wine events with her wine-collecting partner. This is a list of “the legendary vintages they have sampled and who they tasted it with.” Beer bores do the same, says Zak Davis, western regional sales manager for Shmaltz Brewing Company: “They like to talk about the time they went to this brewery or met the founder of that brewery.”
It would be nice if you could tackle the bore’s insecurity directly and somehow boost his low self-esteem, obviating his need to show off. For instance, you might offer a compliment such as, “Wow, it’s amazing what a deep understanding of terroir you have.” But any affirmation you give the person might be misconstrued as interest. And if someone is insecure at his very core, a bit of ego-stroking from you won’t do much to fix the problem.
The only escape is to change the topic. But don’t just say out of nowhere, “Have you seen the new Spike Jonze movie?” Then it will be obvious you zoned out. Here’s how to segue with finesse:
1. Monologue segue
Blumenstiel recommends taking something from the person’s monologue as a jumping-off point. This shows that you are listening. For instance: “So you’ve been to Burgundy. Does your job allow for you to travel much?”
2. Dinner segue
The second way to change the topic, which Jones-Morales suggests, is to start talking about the food: “This Syrah pairs well with the steak. Did you hear that a lot of people are learning to butcher their own meat nowadays?”
I don’t claim this strategy is foolproof. The most dedicated bore can bend any topic back to the one you’re trying to avoid: “My job? I’m an accountant, so I usually take a wine vacation just after tax time. Last year it was the Loire.”
I thought about this the minute I saw the story. I really believe the word is "boor." This guy is not a bore--he's pretty nice normally and I assume interesting enough. But at a dinner occasion, when people are supposed to make relatively light conversation, and avoid offending or inconveniencing others, he does this--it's socially offensive, and he is, in that sense, a boor. I always respond by...+READ
I thought about this the minute I saw the story. I really believe the word is "boor." This guy is not a bore--he's pretty nice normally and I assume interesting enough. But at a dinner occasion, when people are supposed to make relatively light conversation, and avoid offending or inconveniencing others, he does this--it's socially offensive, and he is, in that sense, a boor. I always respond by asking what he'd recommend in the $5 - $10 category.-COLLAPSE
jacquelyncoffey, the correct term in this context is bore, not boor. A boor is a rude or insensitive person, not necessarily boring.
You know, I can't help thinking that -- given the people Helena seems to know -- the person who asked the question is probably a million times less interesting than the "wine boor/snob" she's complaining about.
I only drink wines that come in 3 liter jugs, so I rarely have this problem. When I do, I try and change the subject by waxing nostalgic about the time I chugged a whole bottle of Black Tower and threw up on my shoes. Works every time, just like Colt 45.
How about honesty?
"Hey, all this wine talk is giving me a headache. Let's change the subject."
Maybe I missed it, but the correct term is "boor" and they are very, very boring.
Or it could subtly brought to FIL's attention by saying something like "I bet you can't pick out a wine in less than 5 minutes" or just staring at your watch.
Should the selection process last longer than it takes for four diners to consume one bottle?
Helena, you changed the question. Shut up and drink said her father in law was a major wine bore, not a wine snob. Two very different animals.
On the other hand . . . Hey, if he "pores endlessly over the wine list" and "cross-examines the sommelier," enjoy it. You will probably end up with a really good wine to go with dinner. I admit to being a "wine snob", but I know enough to only go on and...+READ
Helena, you changed the question. Shut up and drink said her father in law was a major wine bore, not a wine snob. Two very different animals.
On the other hand . . . Hey, if he "pores endlessly over the wine list" and "cross-examines the sommelier," enjoy it. You will probably end up with a really good wine to go with dinner. I admit to being a "wine snob", but I know enough to only go on and on about wine when I'm at dinner with other "wine snobs." On the other hand, I'm often in the situation as galewskj, when I'm at dinner with friends or family who are not as "into" wine as I am, I am always the one who is asked to choose the wine (assuming that I didn't bring several bottles from my cellar) and to deal with the sommelier. On the other hand, I've never had any of them turn down a chance to drink the wine I bring with me or choose. In fact the usual question from them when we are going out to dinner is not "Where" but "What are you bringing?"-COLLAPSE
Frankly, I think Shut Up and Drink needs to think his lucky stars that the only thing his in-law drones on about is something as innocuous as wine. My parents and in-laws have been known to start fight about politics which is far less pleasant. So you know, yours is far better.
Not everyone who is knowledgeable about wine is a snob, you know. I have a friend who can go on and on about it if you let her, but every time she joins our group for dinner we allow her to do so because her choices are always excellent, and honestly, I learn something every time she opens a bottle and talks about it. I fully agree that people who are interested in ANY subject can talk ad nauseum...+READ
Not everyone who is knowledgeable about wine is a snob, you know. I have a friend who can go on and on about it if you let her, but every time she joins our group for dinner we allow her to do so because her choices are always excellent, and honestly, I learn something every time she opens a bottle and talks about it. I fully agree that people who are interested in ANY subject can talk ad nauseum about it (I live with a geologist, so dont get him started on sedimentation unless you are truly sleep deprived -- its a sure cure). If the OP's FIL really IS a drone about this, just change the subject, or knock over a glass of water, or suddenly find a need for the heimlich maneuver .... whatever it takes.-COLLAPSE
since he's cool, how about cracking a joke about getting a wine lecture or call him Professor Grape or something. or ask him jokingly if you can get your own wine before the interrogation begins. make him aware of what its like to witness his behavior, but in a playful way.
or, ignore him and start another conversation with someone else at the table. if people stop paying attention to him, he'll...+READ
since he's cool, how about cracking a joke about getting a wine lecture or call him Professor Grape or something. or ask him jokingly if you can get your own wine before the interrogation begins. make him aware of what its like to witness his behavior, but in a playful way.
or, ignore him and start another conversation with someone else at the table. if people stop paying attention to him, he'll probably stop acting like that.-COLLAPSE
"It's a naive domestic Burgundy without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption."
And if he does happen to like James Thurber enough to recognize the above, maybe you can get him talking about dogs.
"An opaque, yet amusing alacrity, not unlike that of a well-aged Velveeta" always works for me.
Oh, if he's otherwise a decent bloke, let him have his moment in the spotlight. Is it really going to kill you?
Or excuse yourself and go to the bathroom. Or do what I do when this happens to me: immerse myself in the menu and inwardly chortle.
I knew I was going to have to clarify.
There is a big difference (to me anyways) between an informed consumer and a "wine snob"
Informed consumer is someone who knows what they want, is willing to pay for it, asks sincere questions, and is polite! 99% of customers fall into this category.
A "wine snob" is exactly like the label states, a snob.
MattInNJ, why is that? A wine snob knows what he wants, and what he should pay for it. As a wine snob, I'm usually bothered by the liquor store workers who constantly ask me for help, or make me feel weird for spending 10 minutes looking over their selection instead of grabbing my MGD and running for the door.
As for the column, I've been in the oposite situation lately. I know most people do...+READ
MattInNJ, why is that? A wine snob knows what he wants, and what he should pay for it. As a wine snob, I'm usually bothered by the liquor store workers who constantly ask me for help, or make me feel weird for spending 10 minutes looking over their selection instead of grabbing my MGD and running for the door.
As for the column, I've been in the oposite situation lately. I know most people do not want to talk about wine as much as I do, so I avoid it. But lately, people have been asking me lots of questions about wine and steering the conversation towards it.-COLLAPSE
I used to work in a liquor store as a second job for a number of years. Wine snobs were the absolute worst customers, I would rather deal with 5 town drunks than one wine snob and their douchebaggery.
I thought the tips on how the change the subject were great.
Obviously, the person writing has little interest learning about wine to the degree of her father-in-law. So changing the subject seems like a nice way to make the evening more enjoyable for her (and possibly others).
1) how do you pronounce "terroir", and isnt that just a bit affected?
2) why wouldn't you just pull him aside at some other occasion and explain that while everyone is glad he is so into wine, most of the rest really can't relate, and maybe he can tone it down just a bit.
3) it could be that he really is trying to share what he perceives to be a talent, and that others could learn from him....+READ
1) how do you pronounce "terroir", and isnt that just a bit affected?
2) why wouldn't you just pull him aside at some other occasion and explain that while everyone is glad he is so into wine, most of the rest really can't relate, and maybe he can tone it down just a bit.
3) it could be that he really is trying to share what he perceives to be a talent, and that others could learn from him. maybe not in the most appropriate way. after all, if it were a bunch of people who have the same apparent interest in wine, they would all be making those comments.-COLLAPSE
LOL Vorpal. I need to cultivate a list of "interesting only to me" topics for just this situation. I think most people who are like this (and I have a few family members in this category) are somewhat oblivious to the eyes glazing over, so I guess I need to move on the "the best defense is a good offense" strategy.
Incidentally, I'm doing my PhD in math / computer science, and this is where graduate level math comes in very handy: if someone starts spouting off on a topic on which I have no interest (e.g. wine snobbery), I can pull out a detailed discussion as to the equivalence of seemingly different combinatorial structures such as mutually orthogonal Latin squares, transversal designs, projective...+READ
Incidentally, I'm doing my PhD in math / computer science, and this is where graduate level math comes in very handy: if someone starts spouting off on a topic on which I have no interest (e.g. wine snobbery), I can pull out a detailed discussion as to the equivalence of seemingly different combinatorial structures such as mutually orthogonal Latin squares, transversal designs, projective geometries, and covering arrays, and how the concepts of isomorphism in one translate to isomorphisms in the others. It then becomes a competition to see who can make the other person's eyes glaze over more quickly, and believe me, math is a powerful tool for that :-).-COLLAPSE
Here's an idea. Why not just tell your father-in-law the truth? If "he's pretty cool most of the time," then I'll bet he'll understand.
I'd recommend developing a subtly glazed-over expression to use when the harangue starts. Rolling your eyes just makes you look bad, but if you can manage to elicit a glazed look, or better yet, an oh-so-slight expression of pity, so much the better.
Am I the only one who doesn't think he could say, “Wow, it’s amazing what a deep understanding of terroir you have,” without bursting into laughter? By the mere virtue of how it's written, there is no way to utter those words without sounding condescending, in my opinion :-).
I, for one, think that it would be a blast to get shitfaced with Helena.
Just more proof that our dear Helena is a secret alcoholic.
(I kid, I kid. Just being an ass.)
Yeah, plus that virgin drink one wasn't about alcohol, it was about non-alcoholic drinks.
LauraB706: Alcohol is probably a big cause of conundrums at the dinner table (and at parties even more so). That's why so many articles are written about it. And this one is more about bores than about drinking. It could be about someone who can't stop talking about cars, iPhones or the United Nations as well.
3 out of the last 4 articles have been about alcohol
1) Fighting Wine Snobbery
2) How to Host a Turkey-Free Thanksgiving
3) Gilrs Who Hate Girly Drinks
4) Virgin Drink Reminder
Prior to that, you took a break for 5 articles.
And the one before that was
10) Raiders of the Lost Drink
I realize the holidays are coming up (big drinking season for some ), but it would be refreshing to...+READ
3 out of the last 4 articles have been about alcohol
1) Fighting Wine Snobbery
2) How to Host a Turkey-Free Thanksgiving
3) Gilrs Who Hate Girly Drinks
4) Virgin Drink Reminder
Prior to that, you took a break for 5 articles.
And the one before that was
10) Raiders of the Lost Drink
I realize the holidays are coming up (big drinking season for some ), but it would be refreshing to discuss other topics, too.-COLLAPSE