Making Chocolate from Wild Cacao
How to Make a Marshmallow Pop
Valentine Gifts for the Five Senses
McBites = Modern McNuggets?
Sausage Recipes of the Month
When Should Bars Cut You Off?
There is no reader question this week. Instead, Helena has a few things she wants to put right.
Recently, several readers have expressed concern that I’m an alcoholic. After rereading a few of my old columns, I felt quite concerned myself. Table Manners does make my life seem like an endless round of cocktail parties and drunken dinners. But that’s because it’s a column about the etiquette of eating and drinking, and alcohol is the cause of many etiquette dilemmas. Believe it or not, I don’t actually drink that much because I’m such a lightweight. Two margaritas and I need to be poured into a cab.
After I confessed to breaking a plate while drunk a couple of months ago, one reader observed: “Way too many of your columns seem to take as a given that the reason to go to a party is to get smashed.” I don’t believe the purpose of a party is to get blotto, but I confess I do believe that you can’t have a party without alcohol. There’s a reason it’s called a social lubricant. And alcoholic drinks add glamour: A glass of wine in the hand looks naturally elegant. Yes, this is the result of cultural conditioning, but that doesn’t make it any less true. A party without booze is like a party without shoes: not sexy.
Nonetheless, just to redress the balance a little, this week’s column tackles two common faux pas related to abstinence.
Not Offering Virgin Drinks
A few months ago, I had a cocktail party and was dismayed to see a pregnant guest searching for a drink. I’d spent so much time squeezing limes for a tequila-peach concoction that I’d neglected even to stock seltzer. Hosts should provide something other than tap water for nondrinking guests. Brian Preston-Campbell, author of Cool Waters, suggests making a virgin version of the cocktail you’re already making. “This works well with drinks that have a tropical flavor,” and other cocktails that include fruit juices. Terry Walters, author of Clean Food, rarely drinks herself, and recommends hot “spiced kukicha tea with apple cider and spices” for the holidays.
But if the thought of making a special drink stresses you out, even a simple gesture like steeping some cucumber and orange slices in a pitcher of water, or stocking some tasty bitters and club soda, shows you care.
Offering or Demanding Too Much Explanation
Sometimes you have to tell people you’re on the wagon—like if your host tries to fill your wineglass. In that case, just murmur, “Thanks, I’m not drinking right now,” or “I don’t drink.” Some people can’t resist further probing: “Is that a permanent thing? Is it for health reasons or something else?” But it’s rude of them to solicit additional information, however obliquely. Your reason may well be something you don’t want to share (such as if you are in recovery, six weeks pregnant, or taking antidepressants that don’t mix well with booze).
If you’re abstaining for health reasons, you shouldn’t make a big fuss about it, any more than you should dwell on your reason for refusing dessert. If you’re on a juice fast or training for a marathon, that’s great, but no one wants to hear about it while drinking a double vodka tonic.
In fact, you may not need to announce your decision at all. There’s no need to lie, but you could simply choose a nonalcoholic drink that looks like a real one. No one will know if your orange juice doesn’t have vodka in it.
Weirdly, almost none of our guests end up being evening coffee drinkers, either. And I do keep a very nice roast on hand for guests even though I'm a tea person myself.
It it takes alcohol to make someone "fun," they aren't fun. If it takes alcohol to make them seem interesting, they aren't interesting. And any preson who is interesting when buzzed is many times more fascinating sober. For me, parties are about conversation. The conversation is of different types--humorous, clever, even thoughtful. If you have to bolster the conversation with alcohol, I'd rather...+READ
It it takes alcohol to make someone "fun," they aren't fun. If it takes alcohol to make them seem interesting, they aren't interesting. And any preson who is interesting when buzzed is many times more fascinating sober. For me, parties are about conversation. The conversation is of different types--humorous, clever, even thoughtful. If you have to bolster the conversation with alcohol, I'd rather stay home and talk with my husband, with whom I don't have to get a buzz to not be bored. I don't drink, period--I get sleepy quickly, and when buzzed tend to lecture on scientific or historical subjects tediously. But I don't mind those who do--within reason. (And anything over a light buzz makes you an unbearable bore and idiot to anyone else who's not drunk, sorry.) We don't stock booze, so all our parties are BYOB, but I've discovered that the most fun and interesting people there are non-drinkers or rare-drinkers. And they're ALL more interesting sober. Then again, I've never had a problem striking up a conversation with strangers, at anyone's party. It usually doesn't take much to find out what other people are fascinated with, and most people are at least mildly interesting when talking about their passions.-COLLAPSE
I recently hosted a party where I was experimenting with Kombucha cocktails. I settled on a combo of gin and ginger syrup stirred with just the right amount of fizzy, sour Kombucha. Very fun!! I wouldn't think of limiting my cocktail fun to just one drink so I created a special virgin drink that was even more popular. Kombucha and quince syrup with a twist of lemon. People who drink or who can't...+READ
I recently hosted a party where I was experimenting with Kombucha cocktails. I settled on a combo of gin and ginger syrup stirred with just the right amount of fizzy, sour Kombucha. Very fun!! I wouldn't think of limiting my cocktail fun to just one drink so I created a special virgin drink that was even more popular. Kombucha and quince syrup with a twist of lemon. People who drink or who can't drink all night like to have something exciting in their glass as well. Although I bought a case of bubbly mineral water hardly anybody drank that. Viva la no alcohol cocktails!-COLLAPSE
I think if people are rude enough to enquire intrusively about your choice to not drink, you're totally justified in 'pouring on' (so to speak) as many righteous details as you like (or even care to invent!) If you want to tell them that you're training to do something spectacular or that you have an early session scheduled to advise a powerful person who must not be named ... go for it. They...+READ
I think if people are rude enough to enquire intrusively about your choice to not drink, you're totally justified in 'pouring on' (so to speak) as many righteous details as you like (or even care to invent!) If you want to tell them that you're training to do something spectacular or that you have an early session scheduled to advise a powerful person who must not be named ... go for it. They won't remember anyhow.
*¬◊-COLLAPSE
Thanks for posting this again now Helena, right before the biggest amateur drinking night of all. I know a lot of people who drink only on New Year's Eve and maybe on their birthday. I prefer parties to have alcohol myself. I live in an area with harsh penalties for driving with only one or two drinks in the belly and frequent check points especially on New Year's Eve. My plan is to have two or...+READ
Thanks for posting this again now Helena, right before the biggest amateur drinking night of all. I know a lot of people who drink only on New Year's Eve and maybe on their birthday. I prefer parties to have alcohol myself. I live in an area with harsh penalties for driving with only one or two drinks in the belly and frequent check points especially on New Year's Eve. My plan is to have two or three drinks early on and then switch to something nonalcoholic way before I drive home. So I'm going to make sure I bring something to the party that I like and enough to share.
I agree with not offering too lengthy an explanation for taking a pass on the booze. In my experience some of the worst offenders are reformed alcoholics.
Stupid living in the 'burbs! I wonder if it is too late to find a designated driver for this friday night!-COLLAPSE
Is it bad to refer to all forms of Alcohol as "Pain go bye-bye juice"?
I don't drink and probably never will. I have had a few relatives with alcohol problems. It just does not interest me. Their have been a few parties while they served wine or champagne it sort of made me wish I did drink but someone has always provided a nice sparkling cider or juice and it was nice and festive. I could toast with the rest of them. So if its that type of drinks you are going to...+READ
I don't drink and probably never will. I have had a few relatives with alcohol problems. It just does not interest me. Their have been a few parties while they served wine or champagne it sort of made me wish I did drink but someone has always provided a nice sparkling cider or juice and it was nice and festive. I could toast with the rest of them. So if its that type of drinks you are going to serve their are plenty of alternatives to the alcohol. I also think it is quite easy to set up a bar area with seltzer and a few juices and some types of alcohol to make drinks with and for one person you add the alcohol with the juice and for the nondrinkers make the drinks with seltzer.-COLLAPSE
now hold on a sec... you can party sober if you choose, but most people are not that skilled. The point here is to offer something for everyone. the more variety, the more happy guests, the better the party.
I hate Coke and its cousins. Disgusting.
That aside, it is incredibly presumptuous to make a serious medical diagnosis of an etiquette columnist - whose column also attempts to be entertaining and not too serious - without knowing her or knowing anything about her life.
Braniff, I'd find it as odd to assume anyone is driving home after parties I throw, because I life a few minutes' walk from...+READ
I hate Coke and its cousins. Disgusting.
That aside, it is incredibly presumptuous to make a serious medical diagnosis of an etiquette columnist - whose column also attempts to be entertaining and not too serious - without knowing her or knowing anything about her life.
Braniff, I'd find it as odd to assume anyone is driving home after parties I throw, because I life a few minutes' walk from a métro (subway, tube, underground) station and several bus lines. But petroleum dependency is the real addiction in our society - the one nobody dares mention.
I have been to non-drinking parties held by Muslim friends - lots of fun but that is because they are from a Mediterranean culture where dancing and laughter don't seem to require any booze. But I couldn't possibly imagine Mormons partying - hell, they don't even drink coffee or tea!
But a mainstream party thrown by secular people here in Montréal without anything to drink would be odd indeed. Why don't we have more to say about good alternatives for people not-drinking, or just to have more much-needed hydration -bubbly water with lime or lemon, some Italian sodas with real fruit I've seen recently under the President's Choice brand (available at Loblaws banners), nice hot drinks such as teas and herbal teas, and many more fine beverages?-COLLAPSE
I went to a church dinner dance and there was no punch to be found. The caterer forgot that it was ordered. I drank 7- Up, ginger ale and Coke all night. I don't like the taste and I hate being around drunks.
So I take it Ernie Cufflinks has never had coca-cola or any kind of chocolate either? all contain EVIL drugs!!!! Bwahahahahha.
I guess the majority of society since the beginning of human existence have just been mentally disturbed ? Well that explains my step mother - oh wait, she was teetotler.
Most of people who drink alcohol have mental disorders, this is pretty obvious when you think twice about it.
Alcohol = taste bad (most of time), smells bad (very often), is expensive and is a very DANGEROUS drugs.
So why would anyone balanced PAY to be ill ?
I don't catch...
People drink because they are shy, complexed, not aease or want to fit in and behave like others because they...+READ
Most of people who drink alcohol have mental disorders, this is pretty obvious when you think twice about it.
Alcohol = taste bad (most of time), smells bad (very often), is expensive and is a very DANGEROUS drugs.
So why would anyone balanced PAY to be ill ?
I don't catch...
People drink because they are shy, complexed, not aease or want to fit in and behave like others because they have no personnality.
Withdraw the alcohol from most parties and people will not even come because they know that if they don't drink, they will stay like momies, talk to nobody because they are uptight and have no self confidence.
The alcohol will allow them to dare more, to tell and do things that they would never do without drinking.
I never drink and when people suggest me to drink I reply "I don't drink ".
If someone ask why I explain that there are several reasons :
1) My mother doesn't cant me to drink
2) I hate the taste
3) This is dangersous drug and I don't want ti harm my body and brain
4) I don't need to drink to feel good with strangers
5) I want to stay virgin with alcohol because it makes me original
I never drink, have never smoked anything and have never drunk a coffe because all these stuff are DRUGS and that beeinh a junkie is not my goal.-COLLAPSE
Strange to preface a confession of boorishly forgetting all about non-alcoholic drinks with a claim of not being all about the alcohol.
Seems to me we all know our own limits. If 2 makes you prone to breaking vintage glassware, then it's too much for you.
Re: reasons not to drink--I remember being on the job market, giving a colloquium just to increase the 'buzz' about me in the area, and...+READ
Strange to preface a confession of boorishly forgetting all about non-alcoholic drinks with a claim of not being all about the alcohol.
Seems to me we all know our own limits. If 2 makes you prone to breaking vintage glassware, then it's too much for you.
Re: reasons not to drink--I remember being on the job market, giving a colloquium just to increase the 'buzz' about me in the area, and being taken on a pub crawl. Seeing as I was due in October, right in the middle of the semester, I couldn't explain my abstention without creating a very wrong kind of buzz, but seeing as it was only late May, I did not think my little one needed any more alc than that provided by the glass of wine I slowly sipped with dinner.-COLLAPSE
The same thought about cheese went through my mind when I first read that "...can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? " I think several of us might have a cheese problem.
It's simply not a party without cheese.
""...can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? "
Not odd at all. For instance, how strange would "you can't have a party without cheese" sound? To me, it's just a statement of fact!
And now I can't wait for the pedantic "In some cultures, they have no cheese, are you saying that they don't party?????" comments.
I rarely feel the need to call the police and have them come arrest my friends.
Public service announcement duly noted, Braniff.
Here is one point that has been practically ignored--the responsibility of the drinker and possibly the host if an alcohol-related accident should take place during or right after the party.
I hope all alcohol-related parties will have designated drivers--and some way to accomodate their wishes (such as favorite non-alcoholic drinks). Designated drivers should also have the right not to be...+READ
Here is one point that has been practically ignored--the responsibility of the drinker and possibly the host if an alcohol-related accident should take place during or right after the party.
I hope all alcohol-related parties will have designated drivers--and some way to accomodate their wishes (such as favorite non-alcoholic drinks). Designated drivers should also have the right not to be abused by drunken party guests. Designated drivers should have the right to call the police if need be in case they are the target of such abuse.
The hosts of such parties should limit the number of drinks served to each guest. Such hosts should not drink themselves. They should be prepared to call for a taxi if need be, or if worse, call the police and have any out-of-control drunks arrested.
I am thinking about the forthcoming holiday celebrations that many will be attending in which drinking will play a key role. Often times, the police crack down big time on drunk drivers and drunkeness in general. Should party-goers end their parties behind bars and with a criminal record?-COLLAPSE
Well you know, what's a wedding without embarrassing drunken scenes?
Our wedding reception was moved inside because of rain at the last minute to an IOOF hall which required a month's notice (for approval by committee) to serve alcohol. Needless to say, it wasn't going to happen, and there was an IOOF club member posted at the door to make sure there was no alcohol. To my surprise, it was a very fun party, due to the music, silly games and general bonhomie. I...+READ
Our wedding reception was moved inside because of rain at the last minute to an IOOF hall which required a month's notice (for approval by committee) to serve alcohol. Needless to say, it wasn't going to happen, and there was an IOOF club member posted at the door to make sure there was no alcohol. To my surprise, it was a very fun party, due to the music, silly games and general bonhomie. I suspect one or two people actually left when they found out there was no alcohol being served, but that was their loss, not ours. So, nothing is entirely predictable. Would booze have helped? Or would some of our family members just made embarrassing drunken scenes? (I tend to think so.)-COLLAPSE
To those complaining and criticizing the " ... but I confess I do believe that you can’t have a party without alcohol. " It sounds like you need to go have a drink.
I say have both alcoholic and nonalcoholic beverages for whoever wants either type. I could have fun at a party where there was no booze present (I don't drink except I'll have some champagne at something like a wedding and then only a sip. To me, alcoholic beverages just taste like medicine) but if I was to host a party myself, I would have the option of alcoholic beverages for those guests who...+READ
I say have both alcoholic and nonalcoholic beverages for whoever wants either type. I could have fun at a party where there was no booze present (I don't drink except I'll have some champagne at something like a wedding and then only a sip. To me, alcoholic beverages just taste like medicine) but if I was to host a party myself, I would have the option of alcoholic beverages for those guests who did want some.-COLLAPSE
In our culture when you host an adult party you are expected to provide food and beverage to your guests. Alchohol is one of the beverages you should provide along with soft drinks, water, and coffee. If you happen to know ALL of your guests so intimately that you are aware of each individual allergy, addiction, and aversion when it comes to food and drink--well then good for you and you can...+READ
In our culture when you host an adult party you are expected to provide food and beverage to your guests. Alchohol is one of the beverages you should provide along with soft drinks, water, and coffee. If you happen to know ALL of your guests so intimately that you are aware of each individual allergy, addiction, and aversion when it comes to food and drink--well then good for you and you can tweek your menu accordingly. But a typical adult party includes alchohol. End of story.-COLLAPSE
Party on Garth.
Here's another gem from that same column I mentioned: "With that said, if the host is locked in the bathroom with one of the other guests, rummage away."
POAndrea, you make some good points, but keep in mind Helena is the one who wrote that it's OK for guests to rummage through a host's house to look for stashed bottles of alchohol. Does that sound like good advice? Here's a passage from a previous column: "After all, if someone has a big party, he should expect that guests will get sloshed and, when that happens, plunder the fridge and maybe the...+READ
POAndrea, you make some good points, but keep in mind Helena is the one who wrote that it's OK for guests to rummage through a host's house to look for stashed bottles of alchohol. Does that sound like good advice? Here's a passage from a previous column: "After all, if someone has a big party, he should expect that guests will get sloshed and, when that happens, plunder the fridge and maybe the liquor cabinet too. The host should hide any special bottles he’s saving before the party starts. And I mean really hide them, like at the bottom of his laundry hamper."-COLLAPSE
Looks like I came too late to the party to add my two cents, but I think I need a drink after reading all these comments.
I agree that I wouldn't throw a party without buying some kind of alcohol, even if I likely won't drink any myself -- it's just part of what a host does. But I don't think you need alcohol to make it a party; I can have a good time with my friends without anyone drinking.
I think alcohol often serves as a social crutch. Don't know someone well? Do some shots together, you'll be BFFs. Even if you...+READ
I agree that I wouldn't throw a party without buying some kind of alcohol, even if I likely won't drink any myself -- it's just part of what a host does. But I don't think you need alcohol to make it a party; I can have a good time with my friends without anyone drinking.
I think alcohol often serves as a social crutch. Don't know someone well? Do some shots together, you'll be BFFs. Even if you have nothing in common, you both got drunk at the same party, so you share a bond.-COLLAPSE
For the people who accuse Helena of being an alcoholic, knock it off!
Firstly, you're just being insulting. This isn't an intervention, and there is no purpose or benefit to your "sharing your concerns" with her. You don't even CARE about her or want the best for her--you don't even know her. You just want to say nasty things about her because she writes things that don't agree with your own...+READ
For the people who accuse Helena of being an alcoholic, knock it off!
Firstly, you're just being insulting. This isn't an intervention, and there is no purpose or benefit to your "sharing your concerns" with her. You don't even CARE about her or want the best for her--you don't even know her. You just want to say nasty things about her because she writes things that don't agree with your own worldview. And the best way to discredit her statements is by discrediting her. (Argumentum ad hominem, anyone?)
Secondly, you don't have enough information to make that diagnosis. All you know about her and her habits is what she writes about dining and entertaining. It's clear she consumes alcohol whilst dining and entertaining, but it would be quite a leap to assume she drinks whilst doing everything (or ANYthing) else. There is no evidence she abuses alcohol and suffers any real consequences (other than snarky message-board posts) as a result.
(As for the argument she shouldn't drink because she broke a plate, someone should try that on my husband. I broke a mixing bowl cooking dinner day before yesterday, so that means he should take me out to dinner every Friday night, right?)-COLLAPSE
I think when it boils right down to it, i'd rather go to one of Helena's or tatamagouche's parties.
And while I typically have soda or something in the fridge for parties anyway in case anyone gets thirsty, in my likely unpopular opinion, if, as a non-drinking guest, you are invited to something explicitly stated to be a "cocktail party", it sort of wouldn't hurt you to bring your own. No...+READ
I think when it boils right down to it, i'd rather go to one of Helena's or tatamagouche's parties.
And while I typically have soda or something in the fridge for parties anyway in case anyone gets thirsty, in my likely unpopular opinion, if, as a non-drinking guest, you are invited to something explicitly stated to be a "cocktail party", it sort of wouldn't hurt you to bring your own. No different than a die-hard beer drinker showing up at the same party, not wanting to have a tequila-peach concoction.-COLLAPSE
I remember parties that didn't serve alcohol. My mom would put my action figures in the cake as decorations and I LOVED IT! Do an article about that!
Also, I imagine a party at BYU is akin to a memorial service.
Seems to me, y'all should stop pointing fingers at each other, and just live and let live.
And have alcoholic drinks AND non alcoholic drinks at your parties. And meat AND veggie options.
I mean, jeez, it's a party for goodness sakes! A meeting of different kinds of people! Isn't a host's first job to make everyone feel welcome?
While the idea of a pitcher of flavored water is lovely and welcome, it seems to me completely unnecessary.
Unless the bar is only wine or 2 fingers, there are plenty of options: seltzer (with lemon, lime or cherry), juices, sodas.
And my bar (and my close friends) always has tea & coffee available when winter rolls around: Whose business is it, if my joe is Irish or not?
Once again, I...+READ
While the idea of a pitcher of flavored water is lovely and welcome, it seems to me completely unnecessary.
Unless the bar is only wine or 2 fingers, there are plenty of options: seltzer (with lemon, lime or cherry), juices, sodas.
And my bar (and my close friends) always has tea & coffee available when winter rolls around: Whose business is it, if my joe is Irish or not?
Once again, I wonder about your nosey Parker "friends": If they're not close enough to me to know the reason already, they're just fishing for gossip. NOYB.-COLLAPSE
Responsible? Seriously? She is not telling anybody to get drunk.
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No, but she's telling them that if they want to throw a party they *must* provide alcohol (and based on her earlier columns, as much alcohol as they demand)
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There are proven health benefits to drinking a little.
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Yup. I never said people shouldn't serve or drink alcohol -- I do! I'm objecting to *mandatory*...+READ
Responsible? Seriously? She is not telling anybody to get drunk.
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No, but she's telling them that if they want to throw a party they *must* provide alcohol (and based on her earlier columns, as much alcohol as they demand)
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There are proven health benefits to drinking a little.
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Yup. I never said people shouldn't serve or drink alcohol -- I do! I'm objecting to *mandatory* alcohol and the idea that guests have a right to demand that their hosts provide them with all-they-can-drink alcohol (see, for example, Helena's columns recommending that guests rummage through their host's cupboards when there isn't enough, or running out to the store to bring more when it isn't the type or quantity they desire).
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And a wider and boring set of friends? You might consider that option, because I'm pretty sure that a big chunk of the population will not consider going to a party again if the host has proven not to pour any alcohol at all.
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I'm happy not to know any of those people!
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"If that's true, then why not stay home with your own alcohol and not run the risk of breaking your friends' possessions..." Oh wow, drinking alone is now socially more accepted than drinking with your friends?
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I never said anything about "social acceptability" -- I said that if you won't go to a party without alcohol then clearly the alcohol is more important than the socializing, so why not just skip the socializing and drink to your heart's content in a safe environment?
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Or perhaps she should invite some friends over who can break her possesions.
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I'm just bitter because last time I threw a dinner party one of my guests broke an expensive crystal wine glass (see, I serve alcohol!)-COLLAPSE
"...or you ARE the wrong people."
Very possibly. :)
Pointing a finger at Helena and accusing her of being an alcoholic goes too far, IMHO. That's making a sweeping decision based wholly on one circumstantial fact.
To the people who say, "I'd never attend a party without alcohol," I respect your preference even tho I disagree with it. I believe you're needlessly limiting yourself by making alcohol your social crutch. If you have to drink to...+READ
Pointing a finger at Helena and accusing her of being an alcoholic goes too far, IMHO. That's making a sweeping decision based wholly on one circumstantial fact.
To the people who say, "I'd never attend a party without alcohol," I respect your preference even tho I disagree with it. I believe you're needlessly limiting yourself by making alcohol your social crutch. If you have to drink to tolerate others or make them more interesting, then again, you're either hanging around the wrong people or you ARE the wrong people.
I've been to plenty of wet and dry parties and had equally good and bad times at both. One of the only positive differences is at dry parties there's usually no long line for the bathrooms.-COLLAPSE
It's really no one's business but Helena's if she has a healthy or unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I don't see why people are so invested in this and eager to judge.
I'm what most people probably would have considered an alcoholic (I used to drink between 50-70 drinks a week for a couple of years, and less but still a substantial amount for several years leading up to that). I decided to...+READ
It's really no one's business but Helena's if she has a healthy or unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I don't see why people are so invested in this and eager to judge.
I'm what most people probably would have considered an alcoholic (I used to drink between 50-70 drinks a week for a couple of years, and less but still a substantial amount for several years leading up to that). I decided to take some time off one day when I wanted to quit smoking and knew that it would not be possible unless I gave up drinking as well. I came back to drinking (and smoking several cigarettes a year) about four years later and while I still enjoyed the occasional bout of drunken debauchery with a cigarette or two, I didn't consider it to be particularly unhealthy. Now I don't drink or smoke anymore (just lost interest, really) nor, strangely enough, do any of my friends, which is purely circumstantial. I never suspected that I could have so much fun at dry parties back in my day, but they're a blast. We all get together regularly and no one thinks to bring / provide alcohol because it'll just gather dust on the counter.-COLLAPSE
What glowworm and EWSFlash said.
Really, it's pretty funny that what it's coming down to is nondrinkers (or nondrinking advocates) saying "those drunks are so boring; they need to find more creative ways to have fun" and the drinkers are saying "those nondrinkers are so boring; they need to have a drink and loosen up already."
I happen to be in the latter camp but I can see both sides—and I'm...+READ
What glowworm and EWSFlash said.
Really, it's pretty funny that what it's coming down to is nondrinkers (or nondrinking advocates) saying "those drunks are so boring; they need to find more creative ways to have fun" and the drinkers are saying "those nondrinkers are so boring; they need to have a drink and loosen up already."
I happen to be in the latter camp but I can see both sides—and I'm also saying this light-heartedly. Can't we all just get along?
Still, as with many of Helena's columns, it seems to be the answer is fairly simple and noncontroversial: within most (not all) American social circles, etiquette dictates that you serve both alcohol and nonalcohol, and it's certainly nice if you're as generous/thoughtful in terms of the latter offerings as the former. In short, as others have said, you simply think about your guests and what they'd like. It's an etiquette column, not a morality column—there's an overlap, but there's still a distinction.-COLLAPSE
"Not a party without alcohol? Twaddle.Helena, if you must have alcohol to endure a party, you're inviting the wrong people."
@Ken Writez: "Not a party without alcohol? Twaddle.Helena, if you must have alcohol to endure a party, you're inviting the wrong people."
Perhaps the guests are allowed some fun and they might not know eacht other. You have to think about your guests when throwing a party,...+READ
"Not a party without alcohol? Twaddle.Helena, if you must have alcohol to endure a party, you're inviting the wrong people."
@Ken Writez: "Not a party without alcohol? Twaddle.Helena, if you must have alcohol to endure a party, you're inviting the wrong people."
Perhaps the guests are allowed some fun and they might not know eacht other. You have to think about your guests when throwing a party, right?
"I don't think it's responsible for her to declare, as an appointed "expert" that a party *must* have alchohol.
@Ruth Lafler: Responsible? Seriously? She is not telling anybody to get drunk. There are proven health benefits to drinking a little. And a wider and boring set of friends? You might consider that option, because I'm pretty sure that a big chunk of the population will not consider going to a party again if the host has proven not to pour any alcohol at all. So a wider set of friends would include them. Furthermore you state: "If that's true, then why not stay home with your own alcohol and not run the risk of breaking your friends' possessions..." Oh wow, drinking alone is now socially more accepted than drinking with your friends? Or perhaps she should invite some friends over who can break her possesions.-COLLAPSE
I'm an enthusiastic drinker. That said, I feel like you certainly can give a party without alcohol, and I also learned very early on that it's no fun at all being the only one with a blood alcohol level at a party. So if there's A Bottle of Wine there and it's still full, I just have something else nonalcoholic. If others are drinking I will too. Maybe even to excess, but the fact remains- nobody...+READ
I'm an enthusiastic drinker. That said, I feel like you certainly can give a party without alcohol, and I also learned very early on that it's no fun at all being the only one with a blood alcohol level at a party. So if there's A Bottle of Wine there and it's still full, I just have something else nonalcoholic. If others are drinking I will too. Maybe even to excess, but the fact remains- nobody should force anybody to drink alcohol, and there really should be a decent assortment of n/a beverages for whoever wants one.
See? no judging, no finger pointing. Can't we all just get along without labeling each other drunks or prudes?-COLLAPSE
tatamagouche, Helena is being paid to give advice on a public forum. I don't think it's responsible for her to declare, as an appointed "expert" that a party *must* have alchohol. I, for one, never said she was an alcoholic. I said she ought to think about what it really means that she thinks alcohol is necessary to have a good time. Maybe she just needs a little wider experience or a less boring...+READ
tatamagouche, Helena is being paid to give advice on a public forum. I don't think it's responsible for her to declare, as an appointed "expert" that a party *must* have alchohol. I, for one, never said she was an alcoholic. I said she ought to think about what it really means that she thinks alcohol is necessary to have a good time. Maybe she just needs a little wider experience or a less boring set of friends (I bet if her friends didn't drink so much they wouldn't be so boring -- there's nothing more boring than a drunk) that she doesn't need to be "lubricated" to enjoy spending time with.
The food analogies are being badly phrased, but think about it: if you say, "if there's no alcohol, I'm not going to the party," or "when the alcohol runs out, there's no reason to stay," that more than implies that the alcohol is the *only* reason to go to the party. If that's true, then why not stay home with your own alcohol and not run the risk of breaking your friends' possessions or committing one of the other faux pas Helena warns against, not to mention that nasty DUI?-COLLAPSE
"...can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? "A party isn't a party without pasta salad." Well, pasta salad is well and good, but I doubt any guests would leave in a huff if you didn't have any."
I doubt I'd notice if pasta salad was missing from a party. If I was invited to a normal-adult-type party (i.e. not a party for a 6 year old or an AA...+READ
"...can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? "A party isn't a party without pasta salad." Well, pasta salad is well and good, but I doubt any guests would leave in a huff if you didn't have any."
I doubt I'd notice if pasta salad was missing from a party. If I was invited to a normal-adult-type party (i.e. not a party for a 6 year old or an AA meeting or a reception for the new Baptist minister) and there was no alcohol provided and it wasn't BYOB then I probably would not go to another party held by that host. I regularly socialize (play games, watch tv, go to the movies, etc) without drinking but I don't go to a PARTY and not expect to see alcohol.
I think Helen's advice was pretty good. I keep non-alcoholic options available whenever I have a party and I'll probably add the cuke and orange water to the list. It seems like anyone might like that even if they were drinking.-COLLAPSE
OK, Ruth L, but I didn't say anyone said that; what I did say was that, like theseBoetz, I and most of the people I know feel the same way as Helena. Maybe we're all alcoholics—but we don't seem to be. We all function at our jobs perfectly well and so on.
What I object to is the jump to conclusion. If Helena's original statement—"It isn't a party without alcohol"—is factually incorrect, the...+READ
OK, Ruth L, but I didn't say anyone said that; what I did say was that, like theseBoetz, I and most of the people I know feel the same way as Helena. Maybe we're all alcoholics—but we don't seem to be. We all function at our jobs perfectly well and so on.
What I object to is the jump to conclusion. If Helena's original statement—"It isn't a party without alcohol"—is factually incorrect, the response—not just "Sure it can be" but also "You must be an alcoholic"—is, in our society, at least arguable.-COLLAPSE
Helena is explaining why you should have non-alcoholic drinks at a party, and you're all still calling her an alcoholic. Be nice.
I happen to agree that a party (under almost all circumstances) just isn't a party without alcohol. You can do it, but it isn't quite the same. That doesn't mean I want anyone to get drunk, but alcohol is a very effective social lubricant. My friend throws a dry...+READ
Helena is explaining why you should have non-alcoholic drinks at a party, and you're all still calling her an alcoholic. Be nice.
I happen to agree that a party (under almost all circumstances) just isn't a party without alcohol. You can do it, but it isn't quite the same. That doesn't mean I want anyone to get drunk, but alcohol is a very effective social lubricant. My friend throws a dry party often and socializing with people I hardly know is a bit tedious. A glass of wine would make it much more enjoyable.
But non-alcoholic drinks are very important. Even serious drinkers have their limit and will want to switch over to non-alcoholic drinks at some point in the evening.-COLLAPSE
Not sure if Helena's drinking patterns are relevant. Look at her advice in general without the intentionally exaggerated statement of "it's not a party...".
Does it seem like sound advice? It does to me.
Not a party without alcohol? Twaddle.Helena, if you must have alcohol to endure a party, you're inviting the wrong people.
Your statement is on the same level as saying, "It's not a party without matzoh."
tatmagouche, no one is saying you shouldn't have alcohol at parties. They (and I) are saying that if you feel that you *need* alcohol as a "social lubricant" and that it's not a party without it, then you should take a long hard look at yourself.
As people have pointed out, lots of people have parties without alcohol for one reason or another (I'm going to an alcohol-free Halloween party and...+READ
tatmagouche, no one is saying you shouldn't have alcohol at parties. They (and I) are saying that if you feel that you *need* alcohol as a "social lubricant" and that it's not a party without it, then you should take a long hard look at yourself.
As people have pointed out, lots of people have parties without alcohol for one reason or another (I'm going to an alcohol-free Halloween party and I'm sure it's going to be a blast, because my friend is a terrific hostess, and she and her friends know how to have fun without chemical assistance). Obviously, a lot of people don't find alcohol obligatory. So why does Helena?-COLLAPSE
^ This.
Drinking can be relied upon to make other people tolerable.
I'm with both Helena and theseBoetz completely on alcohol at a party—virtually all my friends drink regularly, and so do I. The one or two who don't, we provide for. In fact, parties are usually BYO except for the nondrinkers, b/c the point is to make them feel comfy among the rest of us.
While I don't agree with Helena always or even often, I think some of the Puritanical moralizing directed at...+READ
I'm with both Helena and theseBoetz completely on alcohol at a party—virtually all my friends drink regularly, and so do I. The one or two who don't, we provide for. In fact, parties are usually BYO except for the nondrinkers, b/c the point is to make them feel comfy among the rest of us.
While I don't agree with Helena always or even often, I think some of the Puritanical moralizing directed at her in various threads is just misplaced on Chowhound. And, as theseBoetz points out, if you're directing at her (or me, for that matter), you've got to direct it at most Western cultures in general. I am drunken Spartacus!-COLLAPSE
Wow a lot of people jumped on the " ... but I confess I do believe that you can’t have a party without alcohol." line. I strongly believe in this statement as well. Nobody has to get wasted and not everybody has to drink, but a party is just better with some alcohol there. Even if I don't drink myself.
The argument that you shouldn't need a social lubricant if you throw a party, because you know...+READ
Wow a lot of people jumped on the " ... but I confess I do believe that you can’t have a party without alcohol." line. I strongly believe in this statement as well. Nobody has to get wasted and not everybody has to drink, but a party is just better with some alcohol there. Even if I don't drink myself.
The argument that you shouldn't need a social lubricant if you throw a party, because you know the people well is invalid. Of course I don't need a social lubricant with the people I am inviting. My guests however might not know each other that well and they could be more comfortable with a drink. I don't say it's necessary for everybody, but people might be more at ease after a drink. Which is sad in a way, but that is the way it works in our culture. Alcohol is abundant and socially accepted (except by some of the posters above perhaps). I wouldn't say Helena has a problem with alcohol, I would say society does.
On a final note, I'm a student and if I threw a party without alcohol, that would probably be the last party people would attend at my place. Nice: no. Reality: Yes.-COLLAPSE
I know I hang with an odd crowd, but I'd say, at an average party, at least 1/3 of them don't drink at all (and not for any health, psychological, or philosophical reasons -- they just never saw the point in trying to develop a taste for alcohol, that's all). At our parties we always provide LOTS of soft drinks (especially Cokes & Diet Cokes), other flavored sodas, fizzy water, juice water,...+READ
I know I hang with an odd crowd, but I'd say, at an average party, at least 1/3 of them don't drink at all (and not for any health, psychological, or philosophical reasons -- they just never saw the point in trying to develop a taste for alcohol, that's all). At our parties we always provide LOTS of soft drinks (especially Cokes & Diet Cokes), other flavored sodas, fizzy water, juice water, juices, etc. The non-drinkers drink those all night. The drinkers switch at some point to sober up. Seems like a no-brainer to me.-COLLAPSE
Drinking problems aside, if you *can't* have a party without booze, perhaps you should reconsider your guest list. I prefer to invite guests whose company I enjoy enough that I can handle them sober.
Perhaps another reason to have non-alcoholic drinks around is that you presumably want your guests to leave at some point. I generally expect that my guests will move on to non-alcoholic beverages...+READ
Drinking problems aside, if you *can't* have a party without booze, perhaps you should reconsider your guest list. I prefer to invite guests whose company I enjoy enough that I can handle them sober.
Perhaps another reason to have non-alcoholic drinks around is that you presumably want your guests to leave at some point. I generally expect that my guests will move on to non-alcoholic beverages at some point in the evening so that they can drive home.-COLLAPSE
what about tea parties? They are parties, with tea, not booze. They are great fun. You should try them.
Well, I like drinking. A lot. More than the author. Bravo, I say!
the times, they are a-changing. and methinks we sometimes take helena too literally.
Can't have a party without shoes? never been to a beach party?
Can't have a party without alcohol? No friends in recovery?
But the main point of the blog is that there are indeed many people who party very well without alcohol, and options should be provided for those people. Sadly Helena doesn't really...+READ
the times, they are a-changing. and methinks we sometimes take helena too literally.
Can't have a party without shoes? never been to a beach party?
Can't have a party without alcohol? No friends in recovery?
But the main point of the blog is that there are indeed many people who party very well without alcohol, and options should be provided for those people. Sadly Helena doesn't really provide much help here. Club soda with lime, surely she can do better. How about providing some of those exotic soda pops, suggesting some mixers (grapefruit and 7up, shirley temples, bottled water, even that old high school favorite of sherbert melted into fruit soda.)
A lot of us could use some help in providing non-alcoholic bars for our parties.-COLLAPSE
Well said, HJSoulma.
One of the primary markers of alcoholism is "needing" a drink. The person writing this article seems to need an awful lot of drinks. The fact that s/he cannot "party' without one is a sure sign. Plus, loss of basic motor skills (e.g., plate-breaking) is an indication that overconsumption is involved. Don't get me wrong; I love a strong martini or glass of wine, but just ONE.
I have to say I agree with Thomas (and I don't think he's being too harsh in his first post) that if you truly believe you can't have a party without alcohol, you have *some* sort of issue regarding alcohol. You might not be an alcoholic, but can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? "A party isn't a party without pasta salad." Well, pasta salad is...+READ
I have to say I agree with Thomas (and I don't think he's being too harsh in his first post) that if you truly believe you can't have a party without alcohol, you have *some* sort of issue regarding alcohol. You might not be an alcoholic, but can you imagine how odd it would sound if you replaced "alcohol" with any food product? "A party isn't a party without pasta salad." Well, pasta salad is well and good, but I doubt any guests would leave in a huff if you didn't have any.
Saying alcohol is necessary for a party is basically saying "anyone who can't or won't drink alcohol can't have a party," which is clearly ridiculous. High schoolers can't have parties? Pregnant women can't have parties? Alcoholics can't have parties? Clearly that's untrue, so a party *can* in fact be a party without alcohol.
If I'm a college student (which I am, and of age) and *I* can have and go to parties without alcohol and have a good time, anyone can. You just need to be with people you can have a good time with, um, *not* smashed. Maybe the issue is that you're inviting people you don't really like? If you can't talk to someone without "social lubricant," why are they at your house? Or worse yet, if you can't talk to *anyone* at a party without an alcoholic drink in hand, you might want to consider sitting down and really thinking about that: I am unable to interact with people socially unless I have put something mind altering into my body. And well, if that's the case, you either need new friends or new social skills.-COLLAPSE
These days there are so many people who don't drink for one reason or another, it's just good sense to have soft drinks (or better, "mocktails") available for one's guests.
I think Helena did a great job handling her readers' comments about her own alcohol intake. I concur with her -- you just can't have a party without alcohol. That is, unless *everyone* at the party is on the water wagon. I...+READ
These days there are so many people who don't drink for one reason or another, it's just good sense to have soft drinks (or better, "mocktails") available for one's guests.
I think Helena did a great job handling her readers' comments about her own alcohol intake. I concur with her -- you just can't have a party without alcohol. That is, unless *everyone* at the party is on the water wagon. I attended a party one of my brother's AA friends had, and actually had a very nice time (and some great chow) and there wasn't a drop of booze to be had.
I don't understand why people don't stock soft drinks/exotic waters for their parties. For all the years I've been giving parties, I've always had non-alcohol stuff on hand for the people who want to stay but who've had enough to drink for one night. I find that especially in suburban areas, where folks are driving, many make the last "drink" of the night a Coca-Cola or similar.-COLLAPSE
As a non-drinker I agree completely that a few non-alcoholic options are a must. I remember I was at one party where there was absolutely nothing drinkable without alcohol and I had to walk through a fairly dangerous neighborhood to a liquor store to get something passable.
I am a non-drinker because I have an allergy to something that's in most alcoholic beverages. Just smelling certain drinks...+READ
As a non-drinker I agree completely that a few non-alcoholic options are a must. I remember I was at one party where there was absolutely nothing drinkable without alcohol and I had to walk through a fairly dangerous neighborhood to a liquor store to get something passable.
I am a non-drinker because I have an allergy to something that's in most alcoholic beverages. Just smelling certain drinks will trigger an asthma attack. However, I've had so many people accuse me of merely having low tolerance and that I'd get over it if I drank more. It's incredibly rude and inconsiderate.-COLLAPSE
also, many (most?) drinking guests won't want to drink all night long, necessarily. and the virgin option will save your guests from one of the ultimate etiquette dilemmas: not liking the particular booze being provided. if there's no virgin option then they may end up watering your pot plants with the punch.
You know, I just reread my comment above, and I'm being too harsh on Helena regarding any possible alcohol problem. I apologize for that statement. But I do think you can have a party without alcohol.
Regarding Helena's "confession" I guess she thinks Mormons don't party.
Since I had a rough gout attack I've re-thought my alcohol intake (along with other areas of diet), and notice that it's sometimes hard to find non-alcoholic drinks at social gatherings. Can't be that hard to lay in a few soft drinks or bottles of water, and cheaper than hooch to boot.
Then there's the point of someone...+READ
Regarding Helena's "confession" I guess she thinks Mormons don't party.
Since I had a rough gout attack I've re-thought my alcohol intake (along with other areas of diet), and notice that it's sometimes hard to find non-alcoholic drinks at social gatherings. Can't be that hard to lay in a few soft drinks or bottles of water, and cheaper than hooch to boot.
Then there's the point of someone needing to taper off after vigorous consumption. Might as well start hydrating early to mitigate a hangover.-COLLAPSE
From Helena: " ... but I confess I do believe that you can’t have a party without alcohol. "
That is one of the most illogical things I have ever read. I have been to parties without alchohol and have had a great time. This just confirms that despite what Helena says, she does have an alcohol problem; you don't have to drink a lot to have an issue with alcohol.