Valentine Gifts for the Five Senses
Self-Medicating with Magical Food
Zodiac Valentine Menu Game
How to Store Foie Gras
When Should Bars Cut You Off?
Sausage Recipes of the Month
Dear Helena,
I sat next to this guy at dinner last night who was drenched in Drakkar Noir. I could barely eat, the smell was grossing me out so much. Is it bad manners to wear heavy cologne or perfume at a restaurant? —Scent Mental
Dear Scent Mental,
A lot of diners are perfume-phobic, including Chowhounds, as you can see on this discussion and this one. Michael Bauer, the San Francisco Chronicle’s restaurant critic, has actually gone so far as to suggest banning perfume in restaurants.
Smell, of course, is intimately connected to taste. Randi Leehan, wine buyer and general manager at LA wine bar BottleRock, says that even soaps and detergents can compromise the ability to appreciate a wine. “I need to cleanse my nose like you cleanse your palate—just walk outside and take a breath of fresh air before I can taste the wine. … Musk is the worst because it stays with you the longest and it’s so strong.”
Even if you can no longer smell your fragrance (one’s nose adjusts to most smells after about 15 minutes), other people probably can. If someone has sensitive nostrils, your scent could ruin his dinner. In a restaurant Leehan used to work in, several customers complained about a busser’s hair gel. “They could smell it on his hands when he was pulling the plates away.”
Get over it, some would say. According to Yosh Han, a San Francisco–based perfumer, people wouldn’t dream of complaining about fragrances in Europe. And of the 50 states, California is especially bad. “Californians are quite clean-obsessed and overboard about scents in general,” she says.
On the other hand, the scent du jour is more pungent than in the past. Modern perfumes use synthetic musk, which may be a greater irritant than the natural substance. And a potent ingredient called oud or agarwood is coming into vogue. “People who don’t understand oud think it smells like stinky feet or cheese. … If you don’t get good-quality oud, it has a funky smell,” says Han.
But if you’re the type of person who doesn’t feel fully dressed without a spritz of perfume, you don’t have to forgo it altogether. Application is key. “Most people spray it in a Zorro pattern all over themselves. I tell them to spray away at arm’s distance and then walk into it,” says Han. This, she explains, is the perfume equivalent of a “light cashmere scarf” rather than a “wool coat, hat, and gloves.”
I have had people go really nuts in yoga classes or in my business b/c they were scent sensitive. I mean they were like smelling people and trying to decide who smelled of laundry soap or body lotion. It made me feel like a criminal for sure!
It seems like it's a very hard thing to control and neither shops nor public classes/spaces can make the experience 100% scent free. Perhaps there is an...+READ
I have had people go really nuts in yoga classes or in my business b/c they were scent sensitive. I mean they were like smelling people and trying to decide who smelled of laundry soap or body lotion. It made me feel like a criminal for sure!
It seems like it's a very hard thing to control and neither shops nor public classes/spaces can make the experience 100% scent free. Perhaps there is an opportunity for the scent sensitive to stop persecuting people who aren't trying to hurt them and find a way to create safe experiences for themselves. Scent free yoga classes maybe?
That said, I also think it's criminal how corporations are allowed to put these toxic synthetic chemicals in everything until it starts making some people sick. Even though they annoy me these poor people are the "canary in the coal mine". Just don't go crazy on me about your problem and I'll try and work with you.-COLLAPSE
so the solution is not to wear it at all. not to restaurants (esp not if they have expensive wine!) & not to gyms. i need to be able to BREATHE when i work out!
Ha ha lol :-)
When in doubt, go lighter. No one's going to complain about that.
"My god Ethel, can you smell that woman at the next table? Well, neither can I. That's disgusting!" ;-)
Well, BobB, i guess that depends on an individual's sense of what amounts to 'too much' perfume. To one person, it may seem on the light side, but to someone else it may seem too heavy. No matter what you do, its seems like someone is going to complain.
seraphangel - the alternative to perfume is not BO, it's being clean. Using perfume to cover up bodily odor is (literally) medieval.
The issue is not people wearing perfume per se, it's people who wear too much. If anyone can smell your perfume from more than a foot away, you're wearing too much.
Perfume is to the nose as touch is to the body - a light one can tantalize, a strong one is like a...+READ
seraphangel - the alternative to perfume is not BO, it's being clean. Using perfume to cover up bodily odor is (literally) medieval.
The issue is not people wearing perfume per se, it's people who wear too much. If anyone can smell your perfume from more than a foot away, you're wearing too much.
Perfume is to the nose as touch is to the body - a light one can tantalize, a strong one is like a kick in the privates.-COLLAPSE
I honestly do not see what the big problem is about people wearing perfume to restaurants and such. I absolutely refuse to go anywhere without wearing some perfume, even if it is just on my pulse points (wrists, etc). At the most, all i have had is people complimenting on the perfume.
In response to Ruth Lafler, I live in Europe (England actually), and i have disagree with the belief that our...+READ
I honestly do not see what the big problem is about people wearing perfume to restaurants and such. I absolutely refuse to go anywhere without wearing some perfume, even if it is just on my pulse points (wrists, etc). At the most, all i have had is people complimenting on the perfume.
In response to Ruth Lafler, I live in Europe (England actually), and i have disagree with the belief that our sense of smell has been 'dulled' due to 'constant' exposure to cigarette smoke. Please (!), personally I think that Californians such as yourself are completely overreacting (although that is with the assumption that you are from California).
What is wrong with someone taking pride in the way the way they smell? It has to be better than the alternative, BO, doesn't it?-COLLAPSE
I am one of those people burdened with a too sharp sense of smell. I even find the natural BO of many people unacceptable. Since I am tolerant of all that natural BO, I am tolerant of perfumes too. NBD, no victimhood here.
Maybe we should all be tolerant of others and their smell; remember: maybe our natural BO too is unacceptable to others.
Never had an issue with perfume or cologne. In some restaurants, the management seems to use air fresheners with unusually strong aromas, but those are pretty few. Anyway, it's much preferrable to the smell of bleach, cleanser, or ammonia.
I HAVE had some problems being seated in restaurants next to people with severe body odor. I'm not talking about a light sweat, but a stale sort of funk...+READ
Never had an issue with perfume or cologne. In some restaurants, the management seems to use air fresheners with unusually strong aromas, but those are pretty few. Anyway, it's much preferrable to the smell of bleach, cleanser, or ammonia.
I HAVE had some problems being seated in restaurants next to people with severe body odor. I'm not talking about a light sweat, but a stale sort of funk associated with extended periods of no bathing. It seems particularly bad either in summer (with people overexerting themselves in the heat) or winter (with people bundled under heavy woolen coats that haven't been laundered since the McKinley administration). One nightmare scenario involved a rather upscale restaurant where the clientele surrounding us either ranked of b.o., halitosis, or camphor, AND the ventilation broke toward the end of the meal.-COLLAPSE
apb300 thanks for your comments. I have switched to an over the counter drug that I have to sign for that has some pseudoephedrine in it, combined with one I can just buy from the shelves. It's not as good as actifed but it still helps. I'm worried that now I won't even have that soon as I read that there is a new technique where smaller amouts of pseudoephedrine are being used for the same...+READ
apb300 thanks for your comments. I have switched to an over the counter drug that I have to sign for that has some pseudoephedrine in it, combined with one I can just buy from the shelves. It's not as good as actifed but it still helps. I'm worried that now I won't even have that soon as I read that there is a new technique where smaller amouts of pseudoephedrine are being used for the same result in making illegal drugs. As far as what can be done about strangers dunking themselves in fragrance, I have a lot of fun thinking about packing a super soaker. :)-COLLAPSE
Lizard, in addition to making sensible comments, you get points for using "comprising" correctly, which is very rare indeed!
Too much cologne is always bad form. But unless you're actually allergic - or in a place that bans scents - I don't think you can complain. It's just one of life's many annoyances, and one of the risks we take when going out in public.
Azizeh wrote: "One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone says, "Well in Europe they don't do this..." Who cares? We're not in Europe! If I want ice in my water, knowing that people in Europe don't do that really makes no difference to me."
I'm of two minds with this:
1. Broad proclamations about Europe are one of my peeves too. Why? Because Europe is a continent comprising multiple nations,...+READ
Azizeh wrote: "One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone says, "Well in Europe they don't do this..." Who cares? We're not in Europe! If I want ice in my water, knowing that people in Europe don't do that really makes no difference to me."
I'm of two minds with this:
1. Broad proclamations about Europe are one of my peeves too. Why? Because Europe is a continent comprising multiple nations, regions, language communities, etc.. Despite recent efforts to create a unified economic identity (and cultural one even) it is still too diverse for these broad claims, especially when they come from those who have only visited and never lived in a European nation. What I imagine people are trying to get out of such broad statements is something I won't even begin to unpack here.
2, However, despite my shared annoyance I bristle seriously at Azizeh's 'we'. Who is this 'we' who are not there? Is Chowhound only for the North American hound?
Could we assume a diversity of 'we' at this point, even as most of us will come together on the point at hand: people who wear aftershave and perfume suck and ruin the restaurant experience? Goodness knows these folks can ruin any part of existence when they insist on sharing their overpowering smell with me. (To that end, I wish people would wash as well-- just be clean and go light on the perfume. The end.)-COLLAPSE
Those who are disabled by scents etc. really do have a very serious disability. I once had a legal client whom I had to meet in the building's parking lot because if she came into the building she'd be so sick that she'd have to go to bed, if not the hospital, for at least a couple of days after. I always made sure I used unscented soap, no make-up or deodorant, and had washed my clothes in...+READ
Those who are disabled by scents etc. really do have a very serious disability. I once had a legal client whom I had to meet in the building's parking lot because if she came into the building she'd be so sick that she'd have to go to bed, if not the hospital, for at least a couple of days after. I always made sure I used unscented soap, no make-up or deodorant, and had washed my clothes in unscented detergent before I met her. After that I could put on my war paint, deodorant, and a spritz of cologne.-COLLAPSE
Well, he has a point. No, I would never go up to total strangers and say, "you know, you're wearing way too much perfume." But I do say things like "I'm sorry, I'm asthmatic and I'm reacting to a fragrance you're wearing, would you mind taking another seat?" (I'll move myself when I can but sometimes I've already moved and where I am is the only safe place left). And I do complain to restaurants....+READ
Well, he has a point. No, I would never go up to total strangers and say, "you know, you're wearing way too much perfume." But I do say things like "I'm sorry, I'm asthmatic and I'm reacting to a fragrance you're wearing, would you mind taking another seat?" (I'll move myself when I can but sometimes I've already moved and where I am is the only safe place left). And I do complain to restaurants.
I think most people think the synthetic scents are safe (and that the government keeps the toxic ingredients out of them--not true though I wish!) and most people will lump a strong natural scent (like coffee or flowers) in with a synthetic one. They don't realize that a significant part of the population has actual medical symptoms from them (a good 10-15% depending on how you count it, though only a small percentage is disabled by it).-COLLAPSE
well obillo, that's one way to look at it!
why didn't I think of that, I should just TELL others how to behave.
rofl, too funny.
First, I suggest turning down the Victim Attitude. Truth be told, hardly any "people think it is okay to make others smell their perfume." The problem, and it may be intractable, is that such people are not deliberately offending you--they're just unsklilled users. Sense of smell often fades with age--hence the overly fragrant old lady mentioned by one commenter. Next, very few men use fragrance...+READ
First, I suggest turning down the Victim Attitude. Truth be told, hardly any "people think it is okay to make others smell their perfume." The problem, and it may be intractable, is that such people are not deliberately offending you--they're just unsklilled users. Sense of smell often fades with age--hence the overly fragrant old lady mentioned by one commenter. Next, very few men use fragrance of any kind, and so the pool of skilled male scent-users is tiny and the rest just splash the stuff on--for two reasons. One is that "splash it on" is the male way (we are an expansive, open-handed sex after all) and it is the method that is 'taught' (demonstrated) in aftershave commercials. Another is that it's hard to smell your own smell unless it's quite strong, so unskilled users think they're not putting on ENOUGH unless they can smell it themselves.
What to do? First, quit your pathetic whining here and SPEAK UP forcefully where it counts. Don't tell me you cannot complain to a restaurant manager that his hose-down approach to air freshener has ruined your meal. Don't tell me you cannot tell store managers they MUST order the unscented variety of any product--and badger manufacturers that don't provide them.
As for dealing with individuals, some cases are tricky, some aren't and some only seem so. In a restaurant, forget it--you can't produce relief by an immediate result, and the offender may take offense--so simply insist on being seated elsewhere, even if the stinker arrives after you've begun eating. INSIST. Be prepared, if even the manager is unresponsive, to simply walk out. Roommates, friends and family? The choice is yours: be brave and speak plainly and often or you'll inhale unwanted stinks for life.
Some general rules:
1. Vigorously discourage use, sale and production of any scent or scented product readily available at chain drugstores and supermarkets. Those are the coarsest of scents, marketed in a venue that also selss, for example, bleach and ammonia.
2. Don't fake it--never. Not even once. There are people who have adverse physical reactions to some/all scents, but those who DON'T should never think they are assisting them in their lonely struggle by pretending to suffer as they do. You'll fool NO ONE and discredit the legitimate claims of real sufferers. Surely most of us have seen some non-smoker faking the dry fantods or the blue creevies just because someone with a cigarette has passed within 5 feet (never mind that it happens outdoors on a breezy day and the faker is upwind). And surely most of us were, at the very least, not at all convinced.
3. MEN--shower often, using plain, ordinary, unscented soap. Anything that costs more and has scent only enables an industry that profits by making you feel insecure. Remember that many women go weak in the knees from a whiff of fresh sweat on a clean male body. (I hope I remembered to say 'fresh' and 'clean.')
4. someone wears scent at a wine-tasting? As Prof. Henry Higgins put it, "throw the baggage out!"
Much applause to CyndiN. I had the very same reaction: "understanding" oud somehow doesn't make it smell beter. Not even a bit.
2.-COLLAPSE
I have been in a restaurant where the floors and tables had just been washed with a strong bleach solution and the smell was too strong to eat by. And we all know how cigarette smoke can ruin a meal. Why should there be any question as to whether someone's pungent cologne should be able to ruin a perfectly good, increasingly expensive meal out? Whether or not allergies are involved. the sense of...+READ
I have been in a restaurant where the floors and tables had just been washed with a strong bleach solution and the smell was too strong to eat by. And we all know how cigarette smoke can ruin a meal. Why should there be any question as to whether someone's pungent cologne should be able to ruin a perfectly good, increasingly expensive meal out? Whether or not allergies are involved. the sense of taste is 90% smell, and I don't want overpowering smells interfering with the taste of my meal. How about applying scent after dining, if a person really can't live without it? Too bad the restaurant host can't reject diners who are drenched in cologne, or offer them a wet wipe before they are seated.
And, by the way, Yosh Han, if one has to "understand" oud in order not to think it smells like stinky feet or cheese, then maybe it should only be worn in the enlightened comfort of one's own home, far away from the rest of us uneducated bumpkins.-COLLAPSE
Like many commenters, I am also chemically sensitive and can not be around a lot of perfume without symptoms. But, honestly, I haven't had many problems with perfumed fellow customers, unless tables are very close together and I can't move. I have though had trouble with perfumed wait staff (and perfume in other venues like a theater).
But the biggest issue is bathrooms. I have to plan outings...+READ
Like many commenters, I am also chemically sensitive and can not be around a lot of perfume without symptoms. But, honestly, I haven't had many problems with perfumed fellow customers, unless tables are very close together and I can't move. I have though had trouble with perfumed wait staff (and perfume in other venues like a theater).
But the biggest issue is bathrooms. I have to plan outings carefully because I can't enter most restaurant bathrooms, even with my respirator. They tend to have so much air freshener that it clings to my clothes and hair and gives me migraines for the rest of the night. Even my family have to limit their bathroom trips to avoid poisoning me secondhand.
Not only does air freshener contain a ton of synthetic fragrance but it actually has chemicals that deaden your sense of smell. Seriously, that's how they work. It's the same chemical used in moth balls, paradichlorobenzene .
Now tell me, why would a restaurant want their customers to eat their meal with a reduced ability to smell?-COLLAPSE
Although I agree scents can overpower, how in the world can we prevent people from wearing cologne or perfume?
Sure we can approach our friends and family members. Sure we can discuss it. You have an allergy, I feel your pain. But walk into a restaurant, movie theater, elevator...well..it's just nearly impossible to avoid overpowering scents.
Like bakinggirl, queencru I am also allergic to many many many perfumes/scents. It's not just a matter of my meal not tasting as yummy, it's a matter of me possibly horking all over the place!
I think that it's just another one of those things that some people are sensitive about (for example a feminist leadership conference I attended was totally scent-free) and some people just don't care. I...+READ
Like bakinggirl, queencru I am also allergic to many many many perfumes/scents. It's not just a matter of my meal not tasting as yummy, it's a matter of me possibly horking all over the place!
I think that it's just another one of those things that some people are sensitive about (for example a feminist leadership conference I attended was totally scent-free) and some people just don't care. I mean, how many times have you been out in public with you children and some schmoe lights up right next to you?!?! It'd be nice if everyone was open to others' needs but we just don't operate that way in the US :-(-COLLAPSE
One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone says, "Well in Europe they don't do this..." Who cares? We're not in Europe! If I want ice in my water, knowing that people in Europe don't do that really makes no difference to me.
If my non-deodorant wearing European family is any indication of how the general population is, no wonder they wouldn't dare complain about perfume.
I sort of get this - I like perfume a lot myself but agree that Axe Body Spray and similar scents can practically blind you with their pungence. However, New York has so many worse smells, human and otherwise, that I can't get that upset about even a nasty perfume.
Great topic Helena. I, like queencru, have asthma and migraines. Attacks of both are triggered by perfumes, and the damage is done within a couple minutes of the first whiff.
Ruth,
Good point about smokers and sense of smell. As a reformed smoker (as of 3 years ago) I can now smell and taste my food much better. Although I still enjoy the smell of cigarettes BEING smoked, I can't stand to be next to someone smoking at a barbecue and absolutely hate the smell of dirty ashtrays or smoky hair/clothing. And I agree with beevod that cigar smoke is absolutely awful, as is...+READ
Ruth,
Good point about smokers and sense of smell. As a reformed smoker (as of 3 years ago) I can now smell and taste my food much better. Although I still enjoy the smell of cigarettes BEING smoked, I can't stand to be next to someone smoking at a barbecue and absolutely hate the smell of dirty ashtrays or smoky hair/clothing. And I agree with beevod that cigar smoke is absolutely awful, as is pipe smoke.-COLLAPSE
And these same vile-smelling cologne-wearers have the nerve to whine about cigar smoke...
One of the reasons that older people tend to overdo the scent thing is that they can no longer smell it. Especially when they are getting dressed. If they have used a particular scent for years and years, not only are they desensitized to it, but it probably permeates everything around their dressing area, and many of their other possessions.
One friend in particular got quite upset when I...+READ
One of the reasons that older people tend to overdo the scent thing is that they can no longer smell it. Especially when they are getting dressed. If they have used a particular scent for years and years, not only are they desensitized to it, but it probably permeates everything around their dressing area, and many of their other possessions.
One friend in particular got quite upset when I suggested he tone down the cologne, but a few weeks later apologized after several other people thanked him for wearing significantly less than he had been.-COLLAPSE
Oops. That was supposed to be "...MAYBE more people will be aware of overpowering scents."
I should note that perhaps Californians are more sensitive to scents than Europeans because their sense of smell isn't dulled by constant exposure to cigarette smoke! Now that smoking is becoming more restricted in other parts of the US and in Europe, more people will be aware of overpowering scents.
Good advice, Helena. I never did figure out what to say to my ex-roommate, who used to spray so much perfume in her bathroom that the smell was overpowering when I walked in the front door almost 50 feet away. Sometimes sitting in the car with her when she'd just applied it literally made me gag, but she never seemed to notice!
Good topic (for once). I am allergic to many scents, which either trigger asthma attacks or migraines (or both). Unfortunately I can't just move and everything is fine, because the damage is already done by that point. Of course I also have the runny nose/congestion issues as well. I've gotten really light headed in public transport from heavy scents.
@givemecarbs - Actifed still exists, they just took the pseudoephedrine out of it because people use it to make meth. You can still get pseudoephedrine-based decongestants at pharmacies, but they're kept behind the counter now. This is admittedly inconvenient for law-abiding congestion sufferers, but in many areas it has been extremely effective in curbing meth production and consumption.
That...+READ
@givemecarbs - Actifed still exists, they just took the pseudoephedrine out of it because people use it to make meth. You can still get pseudoephedrine-based decongestants at pharmacies, but they're kept behind the counter now. This is admittedly inconvenient for law-abiding congestion sufferers, but in many areas it has been extremely effective in curbing meth production and consumption.
That said, nobody should be forced to take medication because others have selfish and idiotic ideas about what people should smell like. People who wear a lot of perfume or cologne, especially in any crowded situation like public transit, must be completely self-centered or just clueless.-COLLAPSE
Thank you for bringing up this topic. I dread being seated next to an old lady (nothing against old ladies) because more often than not their perfume will stink up the room and I won't be able to taste my food. Why do people think it is okay to make others smell their perfume? If they are clean they shouldn't need it.
Thank you! I think everyone should follow the arms-length rule of spritzing perfume ALL THE TIME. Does anybody actually enjoy smelling someone who's taken a dip in a perfume bath?
At a minimum, can we ban Axe Body Spray from dining establishments? That's a surefire way to make me lose all appetite.
Thanks for writing about this Helena! Excess perfume and cologne has always been a pet peeve of mine. I used to deal with it by taking an actifed before I went out but now actifed has been taken off the market because some of the ingredients were being used to make illegal drugs. Now if I get hit with a bunch of cologne or perfume during hayfever season, there is a good chance I won't be tasting...+READ
Thanks for writing about this Helena! Excess perfume and cologne has always been a pet peeve of mine. I used to deal with it by taking an actifed before I went out but now actifed has been taken off the market because some of the ingredients were being used to make illegal drugs. Now if I get hit with a bunch of cologne or perfume during hayfever season, there is a good chance I won't be tasting anything for a day or three. The last time my meal was ruined was due to an old dude wearing a vat of cologne. I did get on my friend John's case about this at least. Last time he took a cologne bath I was driving and I rolled down all the windows. I think it was 19 degrees Farenheit and he finally got the message. :)-COLLAPSE