Sausage Recipes of the Month
Underdog Loire Valley Wines
How to Make a Healthy Snack
Mark McClusky's DIY Cheese
The Perfect Party Cocktail
Foodies Fetishize Their Own
There is no reader question this week. Instead, Helena has a few things she wants to put right.
People expect etiquette columnists to behave perfectly all the time. Guess what? I don’t. Occasionally I forget to write thank-you notes, even though I passionately believe in them. But there are times when I find myself not doing something I told others to do and suddenly realize I just gave bad advice. Sometimes readers are ahead of me in realizing this, as those of you who read my column know. In the spirit of learning from one’s mistakes, I dedicate this column to correcting a few Table Manners I’ve had a change of heart about.
In one column, I said not to put your elbows on the table, opining that it encourages you to hunch over your food like a caveman and makes it appear you’re not paying attention to your companions’ conversation. But I’ve come to realize that if a restaurant is loud, the only way to hear your companions is to lean forward, which often means planting your elbows. It actually makes you look more engaged in the conversation.
In another column, I argued that bringing your lunch to work can hurt your chances for promotion. There was a tsunami of dissent. Readers raged that it was “a new low for Table Manners,” “utter nonsense,” and “insulting drivel.” Well, first of all, I always bring my lunch to work, and did then, too. So, it was not only a bit hypocritical of me to suggest that toting Tupperware is going to blackball you from promotion, but wrongheaded as well. Particularly in today’s chilly economic climate, bringing leftovers can signal thriftiness and resourcefulness, both good qualities in an employee.
If you bring something unusual, it might be a conversation starter. A colleague of mine always lunches on such strange, colorful soups and salads that people can’t resist asking questions about them. And sharing food from home is a great chance to bond with your colleagues. Everyone likes homemade cookies. Just make sure you’re not the kill-joy who never goes out with the gang for lunch, or you could be left out of the loop on more important things than overpriced sandwiches.
Finally, in another column, I said if someone gives you a food gift or leftovers in a plastic container, you need not return the container. One reader emailed: “Helena, you are an idiot. Whatever happened to telling these frail women to pick up the phone and ask for it back? If these are friends and relatives they will GLADLY return your containers. To suggest that they steal their friend’s containers as well is unbelievably WRONG ADVICE.”
But in this instance, I stand by what I wrote. It’s annoying to remember to return a container. And if you do, it feels a little ungenerous to return it empty, and one doesn’t always have the time to make cookies or what have you. In any case, if I’m giving a gift of homemade food, I’d rather do it because I want to than because I owe the person.
I for one love this column. Not for Helena's advice or opinions, which I think tend to be wrong, but for the discussions that ensue.
Jules, I think you've got the most sensible comment on here.
SpiceFlow, "problem solved"? Yowsa! You and I would have a real disconnect. I figure one of the reasons to send food home/ accept leftovers is so we have that 'excuse' for one more contact--returning the dish promptly.
On the rare occasions when I've given someone something in a Rubbermaid container, I've mentioned that I'd like it back at some point. But normally, I have saved deli and take-out containers for this purpose, or the cheap Ziploc and Gladware ones, and don't expect to see them again. If I am the recipient of one of the latter containers, I thank the giver and say that I'll return it - invariably...+READ
On the rare occasions when I've given someone something in a Rubbermaid container, I've mentioned that I'd like it back at some point. But normally, I have saved deli and take-out containers for this purpose, or the cheap Ziploc and Gladware ones, and don't expect to see them again. If I am the recipient of one of the latter containers, I thank the giver and say that I'll return it - invariably the response is that I don't need to.-COLLAPSE
Personally, I don't think that there is one hard and fast rule regarding the return of food containers these days. Most of what people seem to be aggravated by is when their expectations are not the same as the other person's.
Generally, if I give someone leftovers or a dish for a potluck in a glass, china or pottery dish, or if someone gives me the same, then I would expect to have the return...+READ
Personally, I don't think that there is one hard and fast rule regarding the return of food containers these days. Most of what people seem to be aggravated by is when their expectations are not the same as the other person's.
Generally, if I give someone leftovers or a dish for a potluck in a glass, china or pottery dish, or if someone gives me the same, then I would expect to have the return of it, unless I noted that I didn't want it returned. However, if I give someone leftovers in a ziploc bag, foil or gladware container, I don't expect it back. All of my friends do much the same thing, where leftovers are dispensed in disposable containers and washable dishes are returned or, if they lack a name, put aside for retrieval.
I suspect that the expectations regarding plastic containers being returned began when tupperware was the only option available, and it wasn't cheap.-COLLAPSE
I share my baking with a neighbour, who was taught by her mother to never return a dish empty. A kind sentiment, to be sure, but in many cases she'd be bringing me candies and other foods I couldn't eat but felt it would be rude to turn down.
I've taken to buying aluminum foil pie plates to convey the goodies: they're so obviously disposable that she feels no need to return them. Problem...+READ
I share my baking with a neighbour, who was taught by her mother to never return a dish empty. A kind sentiment, to be sure, but in many cases she'd be bringing me candies and other foods I couldn't eat but felt it would be rude to turn down.
I've taken to buying aluminum foil pie plates to convey the goodies: they're so obviously disposable that she feels no need to return them. Problem solved.
In general, though, if I've brought a nice container/casserole dish/pot to a party, you betcha I want it back- and will make every effort to wash it myself or take it home dirty if need be.-COLLAPSE
Your entire advice about returning containers is all you and your feeling.
It's annoying to have to remember. It feels weird to return it empty. You'd feel beholden to make something and you don't like feeling that way.
Etiquette is actually not supposed to be all about you. What if the generous person who gave you leftovers just wants their damn tupperware back?
Do what we do wash the dish and bring it home yourself or bing home dirty. much easier on the hostess.
I only have one good container!
I recall reading a comment from someone out here a couple of years ago to the effect that she likes to buy interesting plates and such at yard sales and flea markets for 50 cents or a buck apiece, and uses them when she gives homemade food gifts so they don't need to be returned. I thought that sounded charming.
Howabout using paper disposable plates, bowls, cups and utensils. Just be sure to have lots of foil and plastic wrap to cover them up with. Ziploc bags also come in handy.
I wasn't familiar with the concept of refilling the containers, but someone I met through work always added just a little something, maybe just a piece of nice chocolate---I think its great and I've adopted it. The last thing I returned included a red navel orange we had just gotten from Florida. The refills don't have to be homemade and I'd rather get back an empty than no container at all but...+READ
I wasn't familiar with the concept of refilling the containers, but someone I met through work always added just a little something, maybe just a piece of nice chocolate---I think its great and I've adopted it. The last thing I returned included a red navel orange we had just gotten from Florida. The refills don't have to be homemade and I'd rather get back an empty than no container at all but it just adds a nice touch to give a little something back as a thanks.-COLLAPSE
Times change about containers. I give out cookies as gifts and buy really pretty cookie tins on sale near Christmas at a party store or wal-mart for a dollar or a dollar fifty each. They are part of the gift for sure and finding the nicest ones I can afford has become part of my holiday ritual. But oh my, back in the day, if I wanted more yummy leftovers or cookies or other treats from relatives...+READ
Times change about containers. I give out cookies as gifts and buy really pretty cookie tins on sale near Christmas at a party store or wal-mart for a dollar or a dollar fifty each. They are part of the gift for sure and finding the nicest ones I can afford has become part of my holiday ritual. But oh my, back in the day, if I wanted more yummy leftovers or cookies or other treats from relatives or friends, I'd best be returning a clean empty container right quick! It wasn't complicated, no container, no more goodies. Personally I think your idea that you have to fill the container when you return it is just silly. In fact if I had filled a container with my own cookies when I returned it to my aunt she might have felt I was competing with her, when everyone knew she made the best cookies.-COLLAPSE
I think it was very big of Helena to acknowledge a change of heart on a couple of her more controversial pieces of advice. I was surprised that the famous "bread crumb" post was not addressed at all, given how controversial and heated that turned out to be, so I am at least curious as to whether or not Helena stands by her original statement on that as well.
Someone mentioned Helena on Rachael...+READ
I think it was very big of Helena to acknowledge a change of heart on a couple of her more controversial pieces of advice. I was surprised that the famous "bread crumb" post was not addressed at all, given how controversial and heated that turned out to be, so I am at least curious as to whether or not Helena stands by her original statement on that as well.
Someone mentioned Helena on Rachael Ray. I myself didn't catch the episode, but googling, for anyone who might be curious, here is an excerpt:
http://www.rachaelrayshow.com/show/segments/view/modern-manners
From the sounds of the comments in the forum dealing with this episode, Ray was quite rude to Helena, leaving her standing while another guest made an appearance, if I indeed understand correctly.
Overall, I'm very happy to see this column back after several weeks, and what a nice first post to kick off the new year. Here's hoping that Helena had fantastic holidays and to another excellent year of Table Manners.-COLLAPSE
Caralien is right on target about the difference between food given as a gift and sent along because it was left over. I have some lovely tall bottles that I am going to fill with herbs from my own garden and olive oil or vinegar one of these years, ribbons around them, and would not be happy to see one of them again. However, even if it is only a $.50 'tossable' I always return containers,...+READ
Caralien is right on target about the difference between food given as a gift and sent along because it was left over. I have some lovely tall bottles that I am going to fill with herbs from my own garden and olive oil or vinegar one of these years, ribbons around them, and would not be happy to see one of them again. However, even if it is only a $.50 'tossable' I always return containers, sometimes refilled, sometimes empty, and I would like others to do the same. I keep a few of those around, don't want my cupboards to overflow with the things, but do want to have them when I want them. (And if you want to refill them, you don't have to cook--a bit of your friend's favorite ingredient like nuts or hard-to-find spice would work too.)
Not respecting your guests' dietary restrictions is absolutely out of line! The bread crumbs may not have killed your guest, but she may have felt lousy for a couple days, and wasted time analyzing her diet recently trying to figure out if she had a new allergy. Even if it's 'just' a choice not based on physical traits, like not eating meat, it can have harmful effects..-COLLAPSE
Kitchen Nightmares, did you mean to post a link with naked photos? Nightmares indeed.
If my friends kept the containers every time I gave them food to go home, I'd have to buy containers by the gross. I don't expect them to be refilled, but I do like to get them back.
Happy New Years Helena. Saw you on Rachael Ray...... sigh. You didn't look happy. How did it go?
Helena, you're still wrong about food containers. Yes, it is advisable to use disposable and/or cheap containers when giving food to others in case they don't return them. But you should always make an effort to return containers. Unless the container is clearly part of a gift, it is not being given but instead lent. Example: sometimes I bring soup or cake to work for co-workers. They always...+READ
Helena, you're still wrong about food containers. Yes, it is advisable to use disposable and/or cheap containers when giving food to others in case they don't return them. But you should always make an effort to return containers. Unless the container is clearly part of a gift, it is not being given but instead lent. Example: sometimes I bring soup or cake to work for co-workers. They always return my bowls or plates to me, not only promptly but also clean (yay for great co-workers!).-COLLAPSE
I appreciate the intention of this column, and it addresses a lot of issues I'd had with Table Manners.
However, it does NOT address what I consider to be the worst Table Manners offense: the column in which the writer added a handful of breadcrumbs to a sauce despite promising to adhere to her dinner guest's strict South Beach Diet requirements. Now, I know a handful of breadcrumbs isn't...+READ
I appreciate the intention of this column, and it addresses a lot of issues I'd had with Table Manners.
However, it does NOT address what I consider to be the worst Table Manners offense: the column in which the writer added a handful of breadcrumbs to a sauce despite promising to adhere to her dinner guest's strict South Beach Diet requirements. Now, I know a handful of breadcrumbs isn't going to kill anyone (and that's the stance that Helena took), I still found it incredibly disrespectful to the dinner guest who had made their dietary restrictions clear.
If her guest had been a vegetarian, would it have been okay to throw a handful of bacon into a sauce?-COLLAPSE
If it's containers specifically for gifts, the packaging is part of the gift. I would be surprised if anyone returned the containers I filled with cookies, rosemary olive oil, pickled peaches, scrubs, etc. during the holiday season.
That said, leftovers may be a last-minute item, and in the host's container (glass, ceramic, Rubbermaid, Tupperware). Ditto with produce from the neighbor if in a...+READ
If it's containers specifically for gifts, the packaging is part of the gift. I would be surprised if anyone returned the containers I filled with cookies, rosemary olive oil, pickled peaches, scrubs, etc. during the holiday season.
That said, leftovers may be a last-minute item, and in the host's container (glass, ceramic, Rubbermaid, Tupperware). Ditto with produce from the neighbor if in a basket without a ribbon or cause (ie birthday). If it's a container that would cost at least a few dollars to replace, return it, clean but empty--there is no need to fill it if you don't want to.
Someone wrote in another post that she would purchase containers from the dollar store specifically for leftovers to give the guests after holiday meals.
At parties, mark your name on the bottom of your container, usually on masking tape, so that your platter/tray/whatever will (hopefully) be returned if you forget it. Do the same with leftovers if you want the container back, perhaps making use of excess address labels.-COLLAPSE