
Who should pour the wine in a restaurant has been a hotly debated topic of late. Helena Echlin, CHOW’s Table Manners columnist, addressed it last fall. It came up again in December in a blog written by Michael Bauer, restaurant critic for the San Francisco Chronicle, sparking a healthy discussion. And in May Christopher Hitchens took some time off from flogging the Iraq surge in Slate to pen a pouring rant that was emailed around the wine world.
Like most people, I’m often annoyed by waiters pouring my wine in a restaurant. On occasion it’s even driven me to roiling distraction. However, I’m also married to a sommelier who makes good points in defense of the practice.
One angle not touched on by Hitchens or Echlin is the kind of wine being poured. To me, this makes a difference. If it’s an inexpensive table wine, I couldn’t care less. Waiter, pour away. If a disproportionate amount goes down one person’s throat, we’ll order a second bottle. But if the bottle in question is rare and expensive, it’s another matter.
A wealthy potential business associate recently took me and another acquaintance—I’ll call the latter Deep Throat—out to dinner. Our wealthy host ordered a very nice bottle of wine, a 1996 Bourgogne Blanc, from Coche-Dury, arguably the finest producer of white Burgundy. Bourgogne Blanc is the lowest, most pedestrian tier of white Burgundy. But, in the hands of someone like Coche and in a great vintage like 1996, even a so-called humble wine can be spectacular. This one proved no exception, and the price ($240, which for that wine is actually a bargain) reflected it.
The problem was that Deep Throat drank at twice the pace of my host and me. I’ve noticed this before. He doesn’t do it intentionally; it’s just his tendency. Throat’s glass was empty while mine and the host’s were still three-quarters full. The waiter dutifully came over and refilled Throat’s glass, dropping a symbolic dollop into mine and our host’s. Before long, my friend’s glass was empty again … and, after the waiter returned, so was the bottle. Throat had absorbed at least half of it, while our host had had only one glass. Luckily, the host was apparently too engaged in conversation to notice that he had gotten short shrift. But I was worried that the man with the credit card would feel slighted.
After our next bottle of wine (a red) had been opened and poured, I subtly shifted it to the back of our booth’s table, against the wall and out of the waiter’s reach. This prompted the sommelier, whom I know casually, to sardonically remark the next time he came around, “So, you don’t want me to pour your wine.” I squirmed.
Of course, this is only one example of the issues that can arise when waiters pour the wine. Just a few days ago, a waiter practically filled my wineglass to the brim with rosé de Provence in order to finish the bottle and get it off the table. Something else that comes up: If you’re into swirling your wine, you want not a full glass, but a half-full one, to minimize the risk of spilling. It can be annoying to make this point to every waiter who tries to fill your glass.
Hitchens fulminates that the act of a waiter pouring wine for guests is “a vile practice,” “a breathtaking act of rudeness,” and the “very height of the second kind of bad manners” (obtrusiveness).
In fine-dining service and to my sommelier wife, pouring wine for a guest is considered a fundament. She teaches the wine service course at the Culinary Institute of America in Napa Valley. When I asked her what she teaches to young servers, she answered, “We heavily emphasize not overpouring. The glass should never be too full. But, even more, it should also never be empty. That’s a cardinal rule.” And that’s not, she said, because the restaurant is trying to get you to finish your wine faster, but “because you shouldn’t have to interrupt conversation to ask someone to pour it for you or find yourself wanting while food is on the table. It’s also often awkward and inelegant to pour from a seated position and easy to spill on the tablecloth.”
But, I asked, what if it’s a rare or expensive wine and one person at the table’s drinking too fast? “We hope people will be sophisticated enough not to drink more than their share,” she said. “Our job is to satisfy every guest at the table.”
While that’s a good rejoinder, I can’t agree that it’s good policy. We all have our drinking rhythms, and in the middle of a dinner the whole point of having the wine poured for you is to not have to be conscious about such things.
I’ve been told that the best way to deal with this issue is to tell the server upfront that you wish to pour your own wine. That’s not always satisfactory. When dining with people you don’t know well, might it not seem aggressive and rude to seize control of the bottle? Not to mention that the person commanding the bottle might not be any better at distributing the wine than the hapless server.
Rather, I think the most graceful solution would be for waiters and sommeliers to ask the person who ordered the wine whether he would like it poured for him or if he would prefer to pour it himself. Then it is clear to all at the table who is responsible for that empty glass or that expensive bottle that seemed to just disappear.
I have the opposite of the Deep Throat problem -- although I enjoy a good wine, I'm not a big drinker and rarely want my glass refilled. When the waiter automatically refills my glass I end up with more wine than I want to drink that will be wasted rather than being enjoyed by someone else at the table. And sometimes I don't want a full pour the first time as I'm anticipating drinking a different...+READ
I have the opposite of the Deep Throat problem -- although I enjoy a good wine, I'm not a big drinker and rarely want my glass refilled. When the waiter automatically refills my glass I end up with more wine than I want to drink that will be wasted rather than being enjoyed by someone else at the table. And sometimes I don't want a full pour the first time as I'm anticipating drinking a different wine later in the meal.
I guess I find it less disruptive to pour it myself than to be worrying about whether a waiter is going to swoop in and refill my glass before I can stop him or having to give him instructions (rarely followed) on how much to pour. Besides, is "can you pour me a little more wine" really that disruptive? That seems kind of silly to me.
As for the service issue -- I don't see that pouring the wine yourself is somehow usurping the restaurant's responsibility to provide service, any more than buttering my own bread, cutting my own steak or putting cream in my own coffee. Once the food or drink is on the table, let me decide what to do with it.-COLLAPSE
I won't even try to respond to azburdiemaker's rant.
I should probably add to my previous comment, I just make it a standard practice of telling the server that I will pour the wine after the first round of pours. It just saves all of us embarassment. Since I often take wine with me to restaurants (and pay the corkage fee) and there are usually at least 6 of us at the table, and all of us are...+READ
I won't even try to respond to azburdiemaker's rant.
I should probably add to my previous comment, I just make it a standard practice of telling the server that I will pour the wine after the first round of pours. It just saves all of us embarassment. Since I often take wine with me to restaurants (and pay the corkage fee) and there are usually at least 6 of us at the table, and all of us are wine nuts, it is much easier, especially when we have many wines and want to be able to allow them to breathe in the glass and compare them as the evening progresses.-COLLAPSE
I think people are just too passive. Many a time when an inexperienced waiter is passing the mid-point in my glass, a simple hand gesture with the palm down and flat will usually indicate that I'd like them to stop pouring. They get what I mean, and I don't have to interrupt conversation. Similarly, if I've hit my limit and they're pouring around the table, flashing my hand over my glass as if to...+READ
I think people are just too passive. Many a time when an inexperienced waiter is passing the mid-point in my glass, a simple hand gesture with the palm down and flat will usually indicate that I'd like them to stop pouring. They get what I mean, and I don't have to interrupt conversation. Similarly, if I've hit my limit and they're pouring around the table, flashing my hand over my glass as if to block it sends the message that I'm done for a bit, and they will usually stop topping off my glass. If I decide later that I want more, I can patiently wait for a break in conversation when I can grab the bottle.
My main peeve is when waiters grab the bottle from me when I've started pouring for myself. I know they want to somehow apologize for missing the empty glass when food was on my plate, but it ends up striking me as infantilizing and more distracting than if they just let me finish pouring.-COLLAPSE
This is clearly an issue of having inappropriate guests at your table rather than inappropriate service.
So, when "Deep Throat" emptied his/her first glass, you assert that he/she should have sat there with no wine until the two of you have finished your respective glasses - then be allowed a refill? That's completely absurd. If you don't want to drink your wine until dinner arrives - don't...+READ
This is clearly an issue of having inappropriate guests at your table rather than inappropriate service.
So, when "Deep Throat" emptied his/her first glass, you assert that he/she should have sat there with no wine until the two of you have finished your respective glasses - then be allowed a refill? That's completely absurd. If you don't want to drink your wine until dinner arrives - don't ORDER it until dinner has almost arrived ( there are exceptions to that ... aeration, for example ). Let "Deep Throat" pour all the appertifs he/she wants down their gullet until dinner is imminent.
Pouring your wine is a service - which is what the SERVER is there for. If you're at the right place, the server certainly knows how/when to do it properly. If you order a $240 bottle of wine and your server pours it to the brim, you're OBVIOUSLY in the wrong place. It happens to us all. Avoid future problems and don't go back.
You're probably the same guy who talks endlessly when at a restaurant between/during food service. The rest of your party has long finished their first course and you've barely touched yours because you've been babbling on. Meanwhile, everyone else would like to get on with the meal but alas they can't. For they're being held up by a self-absorbed chatterbox. It's a restaurant - not a board room. You are there to eat and drink. If you decide to have a business meeting while you are there, fine. But don't dally about while at the table. That's just rude to everyone around you including ( but not limited to ): your guests, the server(s), the chef, and the restaurant itself. Have your meetings or "important conversations" at a lounge/bar/coffee shop/conference room/hotel room/home ... I'm sure you get the picture.-COLLAPSE
Let me preface this with saying I'm a restaurant guy. Twenty years in. And a sommelier/manager/head dish washer. And the worst arrogant jerk (for lack of a more colorful word) of a wine snob you may ever meet. When I talk about wine with my staff, coworkers and customers, the first goal is always about establishing a baseline. Because we make our money, and it always is in some way about paying...+READ
Let me preface this with saying I'm a restaurant guy. Twenty years in. And a sommelier/manager/head dish washer. And the worst arrogant jerk (for lack of a more colorful word) of a wine snob you may ever meet. When I talk about wine with my staff, coworkers and customers, the first goal is always about establishing a baseline. Because we make our money, and it always is in some way about paying the bills, by providing cool, informed, and DESIRED service. And what one guest may find obtrusive, another may find warm and without pretense.
Mr. McKay, and the infinitely quotable, though often daft, Mr. Hitchens have several issues being presented. And it seems none has anything to do with wine service. Poor service maybe, but not "pour" service.
Please remember that the cost of the bottle has nothing at all to do with the service. The service must be the constant. While some may squirm at the price of a +$200 btl of white burgundy, many guest are lucky enough to not even have to register the thought of blinking at prices five times that amount. And the server's responsibility is to act appropriately with all of his/her guests. To me, this means asking a guest if they care for more wine or in a formal setting, waiting for a nod or glance from the host to pour more wine.
The only caveat we follow is no glass goes empty while food is on the plate.
Now, this is important. The host is paying for the service, but service must be dictated by the needs of each individual guest. That means if "deep throat" is there, and he's drinking more than his 1/3 of the bottle (without being inebriated), he gets to. This is part of the implied relationship when the host invited this person to dine. If "deep throat" is a bore, a drunk, or without concern for cost--whatever--this is not and can not be on the server.
Finally, and I've got to get back to work, if your waiter doesn't ask, is obtrusive, over pours glasses and is obviously trying to hustle another bottle--then look at where you dine. Poor service is poor service and needs to be punished: the waiters need to be beaten, the managers tarred and feathered, and the restaurant made into a Starbucks. Your dollars speak louder than your voice. And if you get great service, appropriate service to where you are eating, show proper appreciation. And yes, you must tip on wine.
One last thing, anyone who describes their self-centered behavior as wit, well they've already stopped reading.-COLLAPSE
I like it when the server asks if s/he should pour or whether I would prefer to pour myself. Personally, I prefer to pour the wine for my table after the first pour. However, if done properly by the server, meaning that they don't just come over and start pouring, but allow me to indicate whether I want them to, I don't complain. They don't necessarily have to ask, a questioning look while...+READ
I like it when the server asks if s/he should pour or whether I would prefer to pour myself. Personally, I prefer to pour the wine for my table after the first pour. However, if done properly by the server, meaning that they don't just come over and start pouring, but allow me to indicate whether I want them to, I don't complain. They don't necessarily have to ask, a questioning look while holding the bottle is sufficient. What I cannot stand is when it is fairly obvious that the server is pouring the wine to finish the bottle quickly in hopes of selling my table another.-COLLAPSE
Dear Melibeli, Whats your problem? Maybe you should read the line of argument and what it is about.This is about fine dining not your burger joint and beer.Wine is not for all. but they have a right to enjoy what they have ordered.and many waiters are sometimes sloppy or more worried about their tip. This is not about the rice shortage in India or lack of waterin africa.
p.s. WAAAAA.
you are kidding me, right? im sorry. this is just storta disgusting to me. youre complaning about not getting enough wine when other people in the world dont even have clean water or enough RICE to eat. god. some people shouldnt be even ALLOWED to write stories like this. just sickening.
The problem with asking is that in fine-dining, it is the waiters job to give service that isn't obtrusive. If the table is in the midst of a conversation, it's extremely awkward to interrupt to ask them for anything. The server should help the experience flow, not lead it by the hand. Of course, every table is different, and some want to interact with their waiter every single chance they get,...+READ
The problem with asking is that in fine-dining, it is the waiters job to give service that isn't obtrusive. If the table is in the midst of a conversation, it's extremely awkward to interrupt to ask them for anything. The server should help the experience flow, not lead it by the hand. Of course, every table is different, and some want to interact with their waiter every single chance they get, and others can barely tolerate a single question or comment. In general, servers are taught to read body language and to rely on non-verbal cues.-COLLAPSE
I don't understand why this is so hard for people. The best waiters are the ones who politely ASK if you want more wine. Simple, isn't it? The second-best waiters are the ones who hold the bottle over the glass for a couple of seconds to receive some recognition as to pour or not.
Would I assume you are ignorant? Never!
I don't usually mind if servers refill my wine. Overfilling has never seemed to be a problem. My pet peeve is when the server picks up my glass. Please Please Please don't pick up my glass!!! And if you must pick it up, at least grab it by the stem. Oh, now I'm all agitated. I think I'll go open up that bottle of wine ...
p.s. Marlene on HuffPost ... I really don't like Chardonnay. I've had...+READ
I don't usually mind if servers refill my wine. Overfilling has never seemed to be a problem. My pet peeve is when the server picks up my glass. Please Please Please don't pick up my glass!!! And if you must pick it up, at least grab it by the stem. Oh, now I'm all agitated. I think I'll go open up that bottle of wine ...
p.s. Marlene on HuffPost ... I really don't like Chardonnay. I've had expensive Chardonnay and I just don't like it. Don't assume I'm ignorant because my tastes differ from yours.-COLLAPSE
As an experienced sommelier, I have to straddle the line between
not pouring enough to satisfy diners and pouring too little.
To see some of my snarky thoughts on this subject, please see my blog posts at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marlene-rossman/notes-from-a-sommeliere_b_117338.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marlene-rossman/winespeak-and-other-obsce_b_118508.html
If the principle of equal shares should be applied, I'd hate to dine with a small unthirsty guy. I'd be leaving still hungry and thirsty. The fact is, some people eat or drink much, and some less. Should a large guy leave hungry or thirsty from the table? Not when I'm buying. When I am, I order wine of a price such that I can afford to quench everyone's thirst. I wouldn't expect you to drink more...+READ
If the principle of equal shares should be applied, I'd hate to dine with a small unthirsty guy. I'd be leaving still hungry and thirsty. The fact is, some people eat or drink much, and some less. Should a large guy leave hungry or thirsty from the table? Not when I'm buying. When I am, I order wine of a price such that I can afford to quench everyone's thirst. I wouldn't expect you to drink more than you'd like either. For me as a host, I put my pride in all my guests leaving full and satisfied. In times of poor cashflow, I order a wine that I can afford to buy enough. In better times, I may go crazy and buy something expensive, but never more expensive than I can afford to buy enough. After all, getting full, and unthirsty is the primary goal of any meal, and my main concern as a host for my guests. Norway (My country) is probably one of the most expensive nations to dine out, but still, when one want's to be a host, there is a desire to satisfy every guest. It would hurt my pride if one of my guests had to leave the table thirsty. That said, keep pouring waiters. It keeps our attention on the conversation and the company, and makes the meal even more satisfactory. but do it correctly. No full glasses please.-COLLAPSE
My girlfriends and I go out for dinner once a month to dinner to catch up and there is usually many bottles of wine involved. The difference is we are not drinking expensive wine, but more on the 20- 30 dollars a bottle wine. I have never really worried about being poured less or more than the others because I think it usually balances out to be about the same. We also each order the wine so it...+READ
My girlfriends and I go out for dinner once a month to dinner to catch up and there is usually many bottles of wine involved. The difference is we are not drinking expensive wine, but more on the 20- 30 dollars a bottle wine. I have never really worried about being poured less or more than the others because I think it usually balances out to be about the same. We also each order the wine so it is not the same person each time- maybe that is also a tricky point to address. Should the one that orders end up getting the most wine? I guess it does depend on what type of restaurant and how much the bottle costs.-COLLAPSE
As a former restuuranteur, II completely disagree w/ gatorfoodie ... restaurants are NOT homes we are invited to, we are not guests of the waiter or sommelier. Diners are customers/patrons & should be treated as such.
But to pour or not is tricky territory .. I've heard very seasoned diners complain both ways, poured too fast, didn't pour, etc ..I agree that the server should inquire with the...+READ
As a former restuuranteur, II completely disagree w/ gatorfoodie ... restaurants are NOT homes we are invited to, we are not guests of the waiter or sommelier. Diners are customers/patrons & should be treated as such.
But to pour or not is tricky territory .. I've heard very seasoned diners complain both ways, poured too fast, didn't pour, etc ..I agree that the server should inquire with the host after pouring the first glasses ... seems to take the guess work out from the get go & then everyone can get back to the business at hand, enjoying their friends and their meal.-COLLAPSE
I think it is part of the service provided by the restaurant / waiter / sommelier. You are their guest in their restaurant, and they are there at your service.
Regarding you dinner out and the expensive bottle, if the waiter did not pour the wine and Deep Throat reached to refill his own glass, would you have slapped his hand away from the bottle and said, "No, you've had enough already"? Of...+READ
I think it is part of the service provided by the restaurant / waiter / sommelier. You are their guest in their restaurant, and they are there at your service.
Regarding you dinner out and the expensive bottle, if the waiter did not pour the wine and Deep Throat reached to refill his own glass, would you have slapped his hand away from the bottle and said, "No, you've had enough already"? Of course not. I think your wife is spot on in placing the responsibility on the diners.-COLLAPSE