Don’t Hide the Ring in the Flan

Dear Helena,

I want to propose to my girlfriend in the little French bistro where we had our first date, but I need advice on how to do it. I’d like to do something special like have the restaurant write “Will you marry me?” in chocolate sauce on her dessert plate. But that seems cheesy. What’s a good way to propose in a restaurant? I want everything to go smoothly. —Jittery Boyfriend

Dear Jittery Boyfriend,

Proposing in a restaurant is tricky. A public setting seems inappropriate for such an intimate moment. And you’ll have to work hard to avoid cliché. But, if you’re set on the idea, here’s how to go about it.

Call the restaurant in advance. Proposing in a restaurant means you’ll have an audience, but unless you’re a real exhibitionist you probably don’t want every single person there to watch. Ask for a table in a secluded corner, limiting onlookers to those at the tables next to you. You could book a private room to ensure complete intimacy, but that may cause your girlfriend to be suspicious. Instead, when you make your reservation, just ask for a quiet table. Be upfront about your plans, otherwise you could be upstaged. Rosanne Martino, general manager of One if by Land, Two if by Sea, a popular New York City restaurant for proposals, says: “If other proposals are happening the same night, we can separate people into different rooms.”

Don’t eat too late. Steven Lande, the maître d’ of the swanky Restaurant Gary Danko, has helped many patrons plan their proposals. He advises those bent on proposing to dine earlier, especially if you have family in time zones east of you. “When you get engaged, the first thing you want to do is phone relatives,” he explains. “If your reservation is at 9:30 p.m., by the time she calls her parents it could be 2 a.m. where they are.”

Pick your moment. If you wait until dessert, you’ll have butterflies all through dinner. Lande advises: “Do it near the start. Then you can have the meal as a celebratory meal. Otherwise one is uptight, and the other doesn’t know why they’re uptight.” Sven Liden, a marketing executive in Seattle, waited to propose to his wife until the middle of the entrée, and recalls: “I was definitely nervous. I checked that the ring hadn’t fallen out of my pocket probably 50 times.” But you need not propose the instant you sit down. Wait until your drinks have arrived, so you’ll have a little Dutch courage.

Don’t hide the ring in her flan. Don’t arrange for the kitchen staff to conceal the ring at the bottom of her champagne glass or in her chocolate torte. They might lose it. “The more people are handling an expensive ring, the more chance there is of something happening,” Martino says. Or they might pop the ring in somebody else’s dessert, leading to an embarrassing misunderstanding. Lande adds: “The ring could have traces of jewelry cleaner on it,” which could ruin the taste of her champagne. At worst, she might choke.

Shun the cliché of the cloche. The most popular method of presenting the ring, Lande and Martino say, is to have the server bring it out under a cloche. Personally, I feel this is trite. It’s better to simply offer the ring (and that way you don’t have to involve the server). Or you could devise something more original. Liden designed an image that included the words “Destiny, will you marry me? Love, Sven.” He had a printing shop print the image on a plate from the restaurant. The restaurant plated Destiny’s fish entrée so that the food covered the writing, and as Destiny ate, it was gradually revealed.

Expect confusion. “Sometimes people are very oblivious and it takes them a moment to get it,” says Lande. In all the proposal stories I heard, the person being asked was momentarily nonplussed. Liden recalls: “At first [Destiny] thought the restaurant had done some kind of trick … then she was in a daze.”

Don’t feel obliged to kneel. If you stay seated, you’ll keep the moment more intimate. That may be why, as Lande says, “people are kneeling much less these days.” If you get down on one knee, all the other patrons will turn to watch you. That’s OK if you savor the theatrical. But you must be confident she’ll say yes, or you risk public humiliation.

Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.

POST A COMMENT |21 Comments

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  • Another problem with proposing at a resturant is that the couple at the table next to you may be right in the middle of breaking up!!

  • Keep it private, put it in a small presentation box and place it on or under her pillow. Take her to Tiffany's, but be sure she knows why. Don't go with a price range in mind unless you arrange for the jeweler to have a tray of suitable rings ready to show her, prearranged. Public places are not suitable, it makes the boyfriend the center of attention and not the intended. As a chef I have...+READ

    Keep it private, put it in a small presentation box and place it on or under her pillow. Take her to Tiffany's, but be sure she knows why. Don't go with a price range in mind unless you arrange for the jeweler to have a tray of suitable rings ready to show her, prearranged. Public places are not suitable, it makes the boyfriend the center of attention and not the intended. As a chef I have witnessed many proposals, some didn't come off, he was turned down, put off, not ready for this. One poor guy was so embarrassed he had to leave the table, further embarrassment to both of them. Put the ring in a very special box. A gold filigree and beveled glass antique box, something that says she is marrying a very classy fellow. That's what I did. She turned me down but I got a ring back in a very special box. I was very happy for me in a few hours.-COLLAPSE

  • I was proposed to at the Blue Door in Miami, I am in the thread above. I am a major chowhound, so my Fiance new that food would be the right venue. My ring came out on dessert (he had gotten a little stand to go on the cake) and he did not kneel and no one even noticed, except perhaps the table next to us, but it was perfect for us. The only downfall was then I was to excited and nervous to eat...+READ

    I was proposed to at the Blue Door in Miami, I am in the thread above. I am a major chowhound, so my Fiance new that food would be the right venue. My ring came out on dessert (he had gotten a little stand to go on the cake) and he did not kneel and no one even noticed, except perhaps the table next to us, but it was perfect for us. The only downfall was then I was to excited and nervous to eat my dessert and I love dessert, oh well I will get dessert when he takes me for an anniversary. I think if you are at the point of marriage you can gauge whether it will be a yes (or you should be able to or perhaps you shouldn't be getting married) and you should be able to gauge how they would like it done. For us it was perfect, not cliche and yummy! What more could a chowhound want?-COLLAPSE

  • Ok, why on earth in 2008 is it still expected that the man must propose?

    Good Grief!

    Make it special or you do not think I am special? Sounds selfish to me. If you do not make it special I will say no?

    In 1991 I proposed to my dh. We were on a lovely hike, and I thought that this is the time and place and asked him to marry me. I did not have nor did I need an engagement ring. I knew he...+READ

    Ok, why on earth in 2008 is it still expected that the man must propose?

    Good Grief!

    Make it special or you do not think I am special? Sounds selfish to me. If you do not make it special I will say no?

    In 1991 I proposed to my dh. We were on a lovely hike, and I thought that this is the time and place and asked him to marry me. I did not have nor did I need an engagement ring. I knew he loved me, what difference would a piece of metal and a stone make to that?

    Having said that I witnessed a man asking his wife of 15 years to marry him all over again about 10 years ago. It was at the Grouse Nest on Grouse Mountain and was far more moving than any initial proposal I have ever seen or heard of.

    How many public proposals result in marriages that are still going strong 15 years later? I-COLLAPSE

  • I think any kind of proposal is romantic and sweet -- but having the lady's dessert or beverage garnished with The Sparkler is risky, charming though it may seem. The lady could choke on it or break a tooth. How romantic! Not hardly!
    I say the gentleman could do one of an assortment of things.
    He could keep the ring in his pocket and whip it out at the right moment.
    He could have the server...+READ

    I think any kind of proposal is romantic and sweet -- but having the lady's dessert or beverage garnished with The Sparkler is risky, charming though it may seem. The lady could choke on it or break a tooth. How romantic! Not hardly!
    I say the gentleman could do one of an assortment of things.
    He could keep the ring in his pocket and whip it out at the right moment.
    He could have the server put it around a utensil or put it around a utensil himself.
    He could say to his sweetheart -- hey? What's that on your hand? and slip the glittering ornament onto her finger.
    OR -- he could use the ring to decorate a gift which he presents to his sweetheart during or after the meal. (like taping it to a package bow or something)
    But unless he and his partner find a trip to the emergency ward or the Heimlich Maneuver romantic, a gentleman should NOT drop the Magic Crystal into the lady's Cristal.-COLLAPSE

  • go all out book the entire restaurant and propose to her -- or ask the restaurant to be the first reservation or the last resvervation -- make sure the restaurant doesn't have a bar crowd later in the evening -- its great to have a private moment with a crowd of drunks watching --- even the upscale restaurants have them -- Take it from a Maitre D -- book the party room or do it at the begining...+READ

    go all out book the entire restaurant and propose to her -- or ask the restaurant to be the first reservation or the last resvervation -- make sure the restaurant doesn't have a bar crowd later in the evening -- its great to have a private moment with a crowd of drunks watching --- even the upscale restaurants have them -- Take it from a Maitre D -- book the party room or do it at the begining --everyone has the ring show up for dessert -- be different and enjoy your meal together-- in the event she says NO you can leave before you spend a fortune --

    The best one I saw/was part of -- the guy asked for the table right in the middle in of everything -- Once they were shown to the table he left to "go wash his hand" He had me tell the entire dining room that he was going to propose -- of course the dining room went quiet and he returned to the table, got down on one knee and did his thing-- the whole room roared and clapped she said Yes - then - they ate dinner etc-COLLAPSE

  • Those of us who don't like the proposals do get excited about marriage and other occasions. Being engaged is cause for celebration, but there are other ways of getting there without cliche--and it doesn't make it any less "special." I would personally feel very uncomfortable sitting close to a couple while a proposal was happening. Seeing something so intensely private and personal happening...+READ

    Those of us who don't like the proposals do get excited about marriage and other occasions. Being engaged is cause for celebration, but there are other ways of getting there without cliche--and it doesn't make it any less "special." I would personally feel very uncomfortable sitting close to a couple while a proposal was happening. Seeing something so intensely private and personal happening right there would almost make me feel like I was seeing them naked or something.

    A girl who has a princess complex will be sorely disappointed if she's not proposed to like she has dreamed of all of her life. Other women (or men) don't like surprises or having the other person decide when and where the decision will be made for marriage. It has nothing to do with him doing something special for you or not.

    The important thing is that if he screws up and does something she/he hates, then it's very likely that he didn't know her/him as well as he should have.-COLLAPSE

  • I didn't go to the ceremonies either--had moved out of town, had a little one, etc. The real party was right after the defense. Not a lot of drinking, or even a lot of time, but I sure was happy.
    You're right, of course, that not everyone wants to be part of a public drama. I'd hope one's fiance would be sensative to that.

  • *grins* saacnmama: I guess there really are two mindsets when it comes to this type of thing. I'm currently working on my PhD, and have been to exactly zero of my graduation ceremonies to date (high school, bachelor's, master's). I'm not thrilled about facing the big PhD ceremony, as I don't see it possible to weasel my way out of this one. Ceremony and tradition does very little for me.

    *done...+READ

    *grins* saacnmama: I guess there really are two mindsets when it comes to this type of thing. I'm currently working on my PhD, and have been to exactly zero of my graduation ceremonies to date (high school, bachelor's, master's). I'm not thrilled about facing the big PhD ceremony, as I don't see it possible to weasel my way out of this one. Ceremony and tradition does very little for me.

    *done being offtopic*-COLLAPSE

  • You don't want to hear someone's happy screams? Do you also complain when the kids next door are too ebullient at their birthday festivities?
    I suppose proposing in public does assume a public that would consider it a happy privilege (albeit a small one) to be able to share in some strangers' joy.
    As for making sure s/he'll like the ring, s/he'll say yes, and that s/he'll appreciate being...+READ

    You don't want to hear someone's happy screams? Do you also complain when the kids next door are too ebullient at their birthday festivities?
    I suppose proposing in public does assume a public that would consider it a happy privilege (albeit a small one) to be able to share in some strangers' joy.
    As for making sure s/he'll like the ring, s/he'll say yes, and that s/he'll appreciate being fussed over--I would hope the proposer would know the intended spouse well enough to determine the latter two before popping the question, and I would think a jeweler would be happy to exchange a ring if the situation was explained in advance.
    You naysayers are right that this is essentially about a legal arrangement, but that's no reason not to get excited about it. I got excited when the Board of Regents at a state university saw fit to confer the degree of PhD upon me, I'm excited (at least agitated) about being the center of my son's universe nearly every day...there are lots of legalities that are worth getting all happy over.
    Cheers!-COLLAPSE

  • And make sure that you know that she will say yes. It would be very awkward if she was to answer something like "I need to think about this", or "I'm not ready for this yet." I saw this happen in a restaurant once, and both parties were extremely uncomfortable for the rest of the meal.

  • Yeah, well it was her SECOND marriage. (J/K)

    Hey, let her scream. I love to see happy moments like that when I'm out.

    We both knew we were getting married eventually, we'd been living together for over 5 years! Still, he kept not asking, and I learned after a while not to push it. So it was a nice surpirse when he did it, how he did it.

    Because, see, a proposal means you're special...+READ

    Yeah, well it was her SECOND marriage. (J/K)

    Hey, let her scream. I love to see happy moments like that when I'm out.

    We both knew we were getting married eventually, we'd been living together for over 5 years! Still, he kept not asking, and I learned after a while not to push it. So it was a nice surpirse when he did it, how he did it.

    Because, see, a proposal means you're special enough for the other person to go out of their way to do something special.

    Had he just come out and said, "hey, you know we were going to get married. I guess I'm ready now, let's go look for rings" in some general conversation, I would have said, "no".

    If he/she doesn't think enough of you to make it special, then perhaps he/she doesn't think YOU'RE special.

    Anyhow, that's just how I see it. And yeah, I think girls can propose to guys now, too!-COLLAPSE

  • Right on, mldubose.

    One more thing to the proposer- if your intended is the type that screams bloody murder when happily surprised, PLEASE don't take her to a restaurant, period. Nobody wants to hear that in person, as hilarious as it is on America's Funniest Home Videos

  • I'm with you, mldubose. My husband (SSM in Canada) and I just decided to get married in conversation a few months after we started dating, and then bought rings together, and then went somewhere quiet, outdoors, to make it official to one another, although all was already said and done by that point.

    I would have been horribly embarrassed had the question just been sprung on me, especially in a...+READ

    I'm with you, mldubose. My husband (SSM in Canada) and I just decided to get married in conversation a few months after we started dating, and then bought rings together, and then went somewhere quiet, outdoors, to make it official to one another, although all was already said and done by that point.

    I would have been horribly embarrassed had the question just been sprung on me, especially in a public place; in my opinion, it gives, in heterosexual relationships, too much power to one person as to the timing with respect to the course of the relationship.

    I'm also not a big Valentine's Day person. I'd rather we go out and enjoy a really cool experience together (one that will give us happy memories and something to talk about for years) as opposed to lavishing gifts on each other.

    Works for us thus far: we're five weeks short of four years.-COLLAPSE

  • Just make sure the woman likes the mushy proposal junk. I don't think I'm the only one who doesn't like the fact that something to do with my future is in someone else's control. Besides, what if you buy a ring that she hates?

    I'm married to my second husband, and I'm glad to say that no man has gotten on a knee, put jewelry in food, or mentioned marriage as a question to me. If either of them...+READ

    Just make sure the woman likes the mushy proposal junk. I don't think I'm the only one who doesn't like the fact that something to do with my future is in someone else's control. Besides, what if you buy a ring that she hates?

    I'm married to my second husband, and I'm glad to say that no man has gotten on a knee, put jewelry in food, or mentioned marriage as a question to me. If either of them had embarassed me with that behavior, especially in public, it would have spelled the end of our relationship. Of course, I think sending roses on Valentine's Day is a loser's errand.

    I like a little romance, but I don't like the overdone, tired routines that people think are necessary to enter into a legally binding arrangement.

    And no, you don't have to change your name.-COLLAPSE

  • Wow. I think the one with slowly clearing your plate (it would be rather fast with my eating style, but nonetheless) and then reading the proposal would be awesome. But I'm a sucker for the written word. And surprises ----

  • great thread on the subject with many personal accounts:

    http://www.chowhound.com/topics/489087

  • My husband proposed on my birthday, at around 11:00 PM, at a special meal he designed with the chef in a small French Bistro in Los Angeles, at the almost end of the meal, IN FRONT OF MY MOTHER.

    Brave man.

    He didn't get down on one knee (thank God), and he didn't tell the restaraunt he was proposing. He told them it was a Birthday dinner. he pulled the ring box out of his pocket. the...+READ

    My husband proposed on my birthday, at around 11:00 PM, at a special meal he designed with the chef in a small French Bistro in Los Angeles, at the almost end of the meal, IN FRONT OF MY MOTHER.

    Brave man.

    He didn't get down on one knee (thank God), and he didn't tell the restaraunt he was proposing. He told them it was a Birthday dinner. he pulled the ring box out of his pocket. the server, who was pouring wine, almost dropped it.

    She rushed away, and came back with a bottle of champagne, gratis, which she served to everyone in the joint (it WAS a small place, thank goodness)

    So, maybe not to the very good ideas Helena has written above, but it was dang good!

    My mother whipped out her phone and called my father, my mother in law to be, my sister, her sister in Idaho, the rest of her family in England, and anyone else she knew. She was thrilled. She was given dinner and a new son in law in one !-COLLAPSE

  • My engagement ring arrived in the bottom of a glass of champagne, at the end of a lovely meal. A pleasant surprise, of course! I had received the "proposal" during dinner but didn't know until the end of the meal that there would be jewelry too!

    Were I to do this again, and I hope someday Mr. Cheflambo gets a clue (after 11 years together it seems unlikely) I would prefer my "proposal" in a...+READ

    My engagement ring arrived in the bottom of a glass of champagne, at the end of a lovely meal. A pleasant surprise, of course! I had received the "proposal" during dinner but didn't know until the end of the meal that there would be jewelry too!

    Were I to do this again, and I hope someday Mr. Cheflambo gets a clue (after 11 years together it seems unlikely) I would prefer my "proposal" in a private place, with dinner out immediately afterwards. A ring? Ha! That would be safely in his pocket (can't imagine him trusting it with anyone else). We occasionally observe a proposal at our favorite upscale restaurant and although I get all "mushy", he remains stoic. The last time this happened my mom was with us; she and I both were enchanted, and Mr. C. was, well, uncomfortable.-COLLAPSE

  • My fiancee proposed to me in a beautiful restaraunt in Berlin, in a nice little corner. It was a beautiful meal and a wonderful moment, but I'd agree with a few of Helena's suggestions:

    First of all, do it at the beginning! I chattered on for two hours during our tasting menu while he sweated, and, although he was waiting for dessert, he broke down and gave me the ring before our fish course...+READ

    My fiancee proposed to me in a beautiful restaraunt in Berlin, in a nice little corner. It was a beautiful meal and a wonderful moment, but I'd agree with a few of Helena's suggestions:

    First of all, do it at the beginning! I chattered on for two hours during our tasting menu while he sweated, and, although he was waiting for dessert, he broke down and gave me the ring before our fish course arrived.

    Second, we had gone for a super fancy and slightly avant-guarde place. It was fun, but if we had to pick over again, we both agreed that a hole-in-the-wall rustic Italian place was more our style. Bigger isn't always better.-COLLAPSE

  • The guy in NYC has it right--people don't want to be upstaged at such a big moment. If they're going all the way in public, they want to be the main event. Never having been proposed to, I can't speak from personal experience. It seems to me, however, that the whole point is to make a public commitment--the ring, the name change, the legal standing. Otherwise you could just live together and...+READ

    The guy in NYC has it right--people don't want to be upstaged at such a big moment. If they're going all the way in public, they want to be the main event. Never having been proposed to, I can't speak from personal experience. It seems to me, however, that the whole point is to make a public commitment--the ring, the name change, the legal standing. Otherwise you could just live together and claim to be roommates when having a spouse is inconvenient. So what's with the big secrecy --limiting the onlookers, staying seated to make sure no one notices--in making the proposal? I expect that most proposals are only made after the proposer is fairly certain that the proposee will say yes, so it's not like there's a big risk of public embarrassment. If privacy with your love is what you crave, don't ask in a place that requires you to hide it under the table. Take a carriage ride, stroll to a romantic view, go ring-shopping and let her know it's for real, ask her over breakfast at home. There are a thousand ways to have your privacy without making her feel there's something amiss because you're already hiding the Missus when she's still a Miss.-COLLAPSE