Maybe its the eggs, and not the flour that is your problem.
Have you tried a free range variety?

By robr on July 7, 2008 05:58 PM

Hi Muscles: I am from Southern Italy. You probably refer to "drying pasta" when you say "this is not generally done in areas where they live". Well, if you make just the amount you are going to eat at once then no need to dry. If you make in excess you will have to dry for storage, as drying the pasta prevents it with sticking and becoming a sore mess. You let it dry a bit, then you fold long...+READ

Hi Muscles: I am from Southern Italy. You probably refer to "drying pasta" when you say "this is not generally done in areas where they live". Well, if you make just the amount you are going to eat at once then no need to dry. If you make in excess you will have to dry for storage, as drying the pasta prevents it with sticking and becoming a sore mess. You let it dry a bit, then you fold long pasta in "matassine" or nests". Also drying it adds a little bit more of a bite to it when cooking. Of course when you dry it will have to cook longer than the 1-2 minutes it takes when you throw it in boiling water soon after being cut.
My doug comes out very nice and elastic. It has the right appearance and consistency. It is stretchy to the right point. It is when it dries that I have problems. I will try to work it even longer and see, thank you for your suggestion. I could not find Durham flour, therefore I think you meant Durum flour (hard wheat). We do not use durum in Italy for fresh egg pasta, only soft wheat. Durum is used for specialty pasta such as orecchiette, gnocchetti sardi, and so forth (no eggs for these, just water and durum flour). Of course it is used for the dry pasta we buy in the stores, also made without eggs. Doppio Zero flour has a very low protein content and not a lot of gluten either. Not as much as flour for bread and pizza. I used bread flour and had the same problem, the pasta breaks when drying. My guess is too much protein in the flours I have tried, and perhaps the water too. Italians do not add water, they mix eggs and flour, and add flour as needed to obtain a smooth doug. We says "add as much flour as the eggs absorb". Something that is better "understood" when you make the doug by end. I have been lazy about it and used a food processor, which requires addition of a little amount of water.
I have searched this site and found an interesting post about Caputo flour imported from Italy. it seems they have both pizza and pasta flours. I will see if I can get my hands on it. Thanks for posting. Doria-COLLAPSE

By doria on June 20, 2008 06:21 AM

Doria: What part of italy are you from? I have a couple friends from Italy who say that this is not generally done in the areas that they live, though they had heard it was common in other areas.

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you're not getting the gluten strands long or strong enough... That's something that could definitely change between flours with the protein content. Both...+READ

Doria: What part of italy are you from? I have a couple friends from Italy who say that this is not generally done in the areas that they live, though they had heard it was common in other areas.

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you're not getting the gluten strands long or strong enough... That's something that could definitely change between flours with the protein content. Both pastry flour and all purpose flour would have less of the proteins glutenin and gliadin than bread flour or durum flour.

These are the rough protein percentages that you're looking at with flours:
Cake Flour: ~7%
Pastry Flour: ~9%
AP Flour: About ~11%
Bread Flour ~14%
Durham Flour or High Protein Flour ~15%

If you can find Durham flour, give that a shot... otherwise try with bread flour. That might help.

I've seen doppio zero at school that looked like what you described. I'm not sure where they get it... they might buy it directly from Italy.-COLLAPSE

By muscles_marinara on June 18, 2008 02:20 PM

I am Italian (born and raised in Italy for 36 years, Italian parents, grandparents and so forth). We use OO flour from soft wheat for fresh pasta in Italy. And the consistency is smooth, velvety, yet pleasantly springy (when cooked!).

I have found this interesting forum because I love fresh pasta but I am completely unsuccessful to make a good batch in this country. And I am unable to find...+READ

I am Italian (born and raised in Italy for 36 years, Italian parents, grandparents and so forth). We use OO flour from soft wheat for fresh pasta in Italy. And the consistency is smooth, velvety, yet pleasantly springy (when cooked!).

I have found this interesting forum because I love fresh pasta but I am completely unsuccessful to make a good batch in this country. And I am unable to find ORIGINAL OO Flour. I have used many brands of All-Purpose flour, such as Glod Medal and King Arthur, I have tried pastry flour, I have attempted combining flours, nothing. I found a Farina tipo OO from Molino Bordignon at Claro's, however I can tell it is not authentic OO: it is not as white as it should be, it is grainy to the touch.

I have no problems with doug, and I mostly use the KtchenAid pasta roller. The sheet is smooth and perfect. My problems is that when I dry the pasta on a wooden rack, it .... breaks. I find my fettuccine laying in pieces on the counter... with the hook still on the rack. If I do not hang it but layer it on a rag, it will break easily when touched. This should not happen. We regularly dry fresh pasta in Italy, as you make a large batch and store some dry in the refrigerator in paper bags or give to friends. When I make ravioli, the overlapped sides are so tough (I only use water, not egg wash as a sealer) no matter how long you cook them. They are OK when eaten immediately after making them, but if I let them dry (as should be done) I get the stiffness in the edges. It really takes the joy to eating fresh pasta away. Believe me, I know how to make pasta, I have done it for years in Italy. I cannot blame it to anything else but the difference in the flour. I tried also with more or less eggs to no solution. Does anybody else have the same problems? Have you found a good Flour OO from soft wheat (grano tenero) in the USA? Am I the only one with this disgrace? SOB!-COLLAPSE

By doria on June 18, 2008 12:09 PM

I've wondered about the drying thing myself Kane. Considering how fast pasta dries out I can imagine that there could be a difference in the way it would cook if it dried out for 20-30 min plus, and although it was mentioned (specifically, with a fairly thick hand-cut Trenette), it was never emphasized in school.

By muscles_marinara on February 28, 2008 11:09 AM

Those are great tips muscles, Thanks!

I was also taught the folding technique you describe when begining to roll the dough on the 1st setting in culinary school.

Does anyone feel it's necessary to allow the rolled and cut pasta to dry for a certain amount of time before cooking? I usually don't do this and haven't found much of a problem, but I've read recipies that say it should "dry" for...+READ

Those are great tips muscles, Thanks!

I was also taught the folding technique you describe when begining to roll the dough on the 1st setting in culinary school.

Does anyone feel it's necessary to allow the rolled and cut pasta to dry for a certain amount of time before cooking? I usually don't do this and haven't found much of a problem, but I've read recipies that say it should "dry" for 20 minutes up to 2 hours depeding on the which recipe you read.-COLLAPSE

By Kane_TO on February 28, 2008 10:12 AM

Why do they break the eggs in the center of dough. Wouldn't it be easier to scramble them in a bowl and then add them to the dough. I have made pasta on a board like the video but have also made it in a bowl and it turned out the same.

I guess from my point of view the advantage to doing it on a board and mixing it in the dough is to same dishwasher space. Or am I missing something?
Bill

By wdames on February 24, 2008 09:20 AM

Nice tutorial! I'm in culinary school and make fresh pasta constantly, it's pretty cool to see the differences in technique.

The first thing that struck me was that we mix the eggs and work flour in much more slowly than you did... mixing the eggs for a few minutes, letting them gradually pull flour from the sides. Gradually, we increase the amount of flour we're working in until it gets thick...+READ

Nice tutorial! I'm in culinary school and make fresh pasta constantly, it's pretty cool to see the differences in technique.

The first thing that struck me was that we mix the eggs and work flour in much more slowly than you did... mixing the eggs for a few minutes, letting them gradually pull flour from the sides. Gradually, we increase the amount of flour we're working in until it gets thick enough to handle. Then, we kneed in some flour bit by bit until the correct texture is reached. This part of the recipe takes about 10-15 minutes and we never really use the full amount of flour in the recipe.
(Adding the full amount and getting that dry texture would probably warrant a newspaper slap on the nose and a commanding "do it over!"... though I can't imagine that there would be much functional difference in the end product if you just added a bit of water and kneaded it out, it's a culinary instructor's job to be anal.. :-) )

Also, one of my Italian teachers insisted that when you're on setting one, it was an absolute must to put it through, then fold it like a 3 fold pamphlet, or a business letter, so the outside edge of each outer 3rd will touch the crease on the opposite side of the middle third. (best way I could think to describe that... just fold it like a business letter) and then put it through again, with the leading edge being what used to be the long side before you folded it. He said that cross-hatching the gluten strands makes a better looking pasta with a more consistent texture... haven't compared the two side by side but I'm willing to bet the difference isn't earth shattering.

I've also found that if you accidentally let a ball of pasta dough dry out for maybe 15 or 20 min (ahem, not that I've ever done such a thing ;-) ) that if you fold it into 3rds and put it through on setting one about 6 or 7 times that the hard bits get reincorporated and you get that smooth texture again.

Also worth noting because I've seen it happen relatively frequently in the classroom: If you're putting your pasta dough through the machine, some of the dough bunches up into a little mass right on top of the rollers, and the product coming out of the bottom is rippled and torn, almost like the rollers were tearing it out of the bunch of dough rather than just smoothly rolling it into a sheet, you just need to give it a heavy dusting of flour, fold it into 3rds and put it through the machine again. Keep doing this until enough flour is incorporated so that doesn't happen anymore.

And when cutting it, I've found that it can be difficult to get even noodles when you roll it into a cigar shape like that and cut it. Where the roll gets compressed always ends up being a weird little curve or point in my noodle. Though it's surely only a matter of personal preference, there is one technique I prefer. Dust the pasta with flour *heavily* (you can brush off extra flour, you can't unstick noodles.) Fold in each edge so they meet in the middle, and then do it again... so all in all you should have 4 layers of pasta. Slice the tagliatelle in one smooth deliberate motion, just as you would with the cigar shape. After you've sliced your tagliatelle, if you're looking to be a bit flashy, take your chefs knife and slide the back edge of it under the pasta so it runs right down the middle line. Turn the blade so it's vertical, with the back side facing the pasta, and then lift it up. The noodles will fall around your chef's knife like long wavy blond hair.-COLLAPSE

By muscles_marinara on February 2, 2008 12:15 PM