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Dear Helena,
This weekend I’m taking a woman I really like out for dinner, and I want it to go well. Should I steer clear of certain foods? Should I skip spaghetti in case I splatter my shirt (or, even worse, my dining companion)? Should I avoid blue cheese or garlic in case they give me bad breath? I want to be myself, but I also want to avoid grossing her out. —Nervous Bachelor
Dear Nervous Bachelor,
Some dating experts say you should steer clear of messy food on dates. Lisa Altalida, author of Dating Boot Camp, says: “Crab is one of my favorite foods, but I wouldn’t order it on a date unless it’s cracked already.” But I disagree. If you order what you want and eat it without stressing, you’ll be more relaxed and fun to be with. If you connect with your companion, a splatter on the tablecloth shouldn’t put him off. And if it does, then you probably shouldn’t date the person anyway.
And you don’t necessarily have to steer clear of garlic and onions. Evan Marc Katz, a dating coach, says bad breath isn’t a big deal: “I never heard a man say, ‘She had onion breath, I’m never going to see her again.’” Dr. Anthony Dailley, director of the Center for Breath Treatment, says garlic is OK, too. “When it’s just after people have eaten it, their breath just smells like garlic cooking, which for many is a pretty good smell.” You still might want to check in with your date before ordering chicken with 40 cloves of garlic. Amy Sullivan, a garlic-loving middle-school teacher in Oakland, California, says that when she’s considering a garlicky entrée on a date, “I’ll ask the guy if he likes garlic and hopefully get an agreement.” One man responded, “No, and there’s nothing worse than garlic breath,” so Sullivan ordered a garlic-free dish. (There was no second date, however.)
If you both indulge in garlic, you need not fret, according to Dailley. “When my wife has had garlic, I can smell her a mile away, but if I’ve had garlic too, I hardly notice it on her.” After being exposed to an odor long enough, he explains, your nose stops smelling it—a phenomenon that perfumers call “nose fatigue.”
Dailley says the best way to avoid halitosis after a meal is “scraping your tongue thoroughly with a really good tongue scraper.” This dislodges the molecules of garlic buried deep in your taste buds, he says. But when you’re in a restaurant, tongue scraping may not be convenient. And carrying a tongue scraper around with you is definitely not sexy.
If you choose to eat garlic, know that even if your date loves garlic, your breath may give offense the following day. “The compounds in garlic pervade your body and come out through your pores,” explains Dailley. “For some reason … it’s many times worse, a whole different smell.” Brushing your teeth won’t help much at this point. So if you stay the night, you might want to consider leaving before your partner regains consciousness.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
Ok, I misspoke. He was actually a total conversation hog, interrupted me constantly, and was frankly too old for me. I was already not that into it when I got there. But the wing thing was sort of the nail in the coffin... and I don't think he had a condition (and I'm well aware that these exist). He was trying to be a wing cowboy and then left me sitting in his living room half the night. And...+READ
Ok, I misspoke. He was actually a total conversation hog, interrupted me constantly, and was frankly too old for me. I was already not that into it when I got there. But the wing thing was sort of the nail in the coffin... and I don't think he had a condition (and I'm well aware that these exist). He was trying to be a wing cowboy and then left me sitting in his living room half the night. And this is a thread about what to avoid eating on first dates. Condition or not, eating two of the spiciest wings known to man was poor judgment.-COLLAPSE
You claim that he was a "very nice guy", but you didn't go out with him again - was it simply or largely on the basis of this? Did it occur to you that perhaps the wings hadn't made him ill until the date had begun and that he hadn't predicted that they would in advance? Or possibly he used the wing story as an excuse for a health condition that necessitated him using the bathroom many times but...+READ
You claim that he was a "very nice guy", but you didn't go out with him again - was it simply or largely on the basis of this? Did it occur to you that perhaps the wings hadn't made him ill until the date had begun and that he hadn't predicted that they would in advance? Or possibly he used the wing story as an excuse for a health condition that necessitated him using the bathroom many times but that he was embarrassed to disclose to you so early on?
As someone with Crohn's Disease who sometimes might have to use the bathroom 10+ times in an evening for prolonged periods if my digestive system gets in a snippy mood, I'm glad that my dates, friends, and family are understanding and compassionate about such things.-COLLAPSE
I once went on a second date in which I met the guy at his apartment for wine after he had come from a Super Bowl Party he had to attend for some reason or another. (Work face-showing? Annual get-together with college friends? I think a combo. Anyway.) He ate two -- yes, just two -- of someone's spicy hot wings that apparently everyone had agreed for some time were so hot that no one could eat...+READ
I once went on a second date in which I met the guy at his apartment for wine after he had come from a Super Bowl Party he had to attend for some reason or another. (Work face-showing? Annual get-together with college friends? I think a combo. Anyway.) He ate two -- yes, just two -- of someone's spicy hot wings that apparently everyone had agreed for some time were so hot that no one could eat more than one, literally. And no one ever had. Until that night when my date broke the record. This guy, a very nice guy who I never went out with again, went to the bathroom like six or seven times, a few times for what was a long time, while we were supposed to be having wine and conversation. He told me the wing story halfway through, so I then knew that he was in some sort of gastrointestinal distress and not just nervous or checking his messages or something. I also felt like there was no way I could use his bathroom.
This is an extreme case, but the lesson is: Don't show off by eating extreme foods unless you know from experience that you can handle it. And cancel the date if you are "ill" from freakishly hot wings.-COLLAPSE
Both elbows on the table and the hand going in a circular motion from plate to mouth?
I'd dump a guy so fast if he acted like that on a date. Not to mention the smacking, slurping, onion breath, lack of napkin use, and talking with his mouth full. Imagine how he would act after being together six months? Would it evolve into blowing farts at the table? Can you imagine the horror? And then....
...+READ
Both elbows on the table and the hand going in a circular motion from plate to mouth?
I'd dump a guy so fast if he acted like that on a date. Not to mention the smacking, slurping, onion breath, lack of napkin use, and talking with his mouth full. Imagine how he would act after being together six months? Would it evolve into blowing farts at the table? Can you imagine the horror? And then....
"Come on in here honey and look at this before I flush it!"
Manners are never overrated.-COLLAPSE
Oh yeah, I have acquaintences who make more money than I do, and like to remind me of that fact, but they lower their head to their plate and shovel food into their mouths. Yuck!
You'd think all of this is common sense but I went out for dinner recently and it's quite amazing how people miss many manners, such as chewing with their mouth open, slurping soup, talking on the cell phone, burping! I was shocked. Check out: http://sophiasparx.blogspot.com for some more things I noticed!
Well, that might be a slightly more blunt definition of 3d base than in days of yore but from what I recall, that's about it. (Thankfully no one I ever dealt with really understood or cared about that crap.)
But meanwhile, if your over the age of about 17 and you're still worrying about "bases" - you have a lot more to worry about than what to eat and how to eat it on your first date! Pretty...+READ
Well, that might be a slightly more blunt definition of 3d base than in days of yore but from what I recall, that's about it. (Thankfully no one I ever dealt with really understood or cared about that crap.)
But meanwhile, if your over the age of about 17 and you're still worrying about "bases" - you have a lot more to worry about than what to eat and how to eat it on your first date! Pretty scary that this is showing up in the headline of an article written by an adult - one presumes - for adults.
Do people really need to be told this stuff? Should they be? If some guy thinks it's OK to pull food out of his mouth in front of people - whether on a date or anything else - do you really want to end up on a second date with him just because someone dragged him into a corner and told him not to do "that"? God knows what else he'd come up with later on the way to 3d base. (terrified shudder) But then I guess my generation needs a NYT journalist to give them "ethics" lessons so this should come as no great suprise I suppose....-COLLAPSE
eat what you want. be yourself.
beevod wanted to know "what's third base"?
Well, seeing as "third base" in the 21st Century has a different definition to days of yore, I suggest explanation #4 on this site may keep you up to date:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=third+base
I agree with vorpal on this one, but I still think that if you take a first date some place with a drive-through window you have fairly little chance of getting to third base.
I'm just sayin'....
I'm really quite amazed at how many conditions people here have put on first dates... no wonder so many find them stressful and not all that fun! My best first dates have been the ones where something disastrous went wrong or one of us did something utterly silly and we were able to laugh about it together - instant connection. Life just shouldn't be that serious.
I thinkthat most of you are fussing too much...
Demonstrating that one has table manners never hurt, but worrying about so many trivial details (garlic, blue cheese, messy foods, reading up on menu etc...) is a little too much in my mind.
The best advice thus far is not to drink too much... oh... and stifling farts is probably a good idea too...
On the very rare occasion I have screwed up a...+READ
I thinkthat most of you are fussing too much...
Demonstrating that one has table manners never hurt, but worrying about so many trivial details (garlic, blue cheese, messy foods, reading up on menu etc...) is a little too much in my mind.
The best advice thus far is not to drink too much... oh... and stifling farts is probably a good idea too...
On the very rare occasion I have screwed up a date it has been because I had a few too many drinkies to calm the nerves.... and ended up utterly hammered.
Saying that, at the carnal level it worked out I suppose...
I was just a little embarassed at a couple of the rather risque things I had proposed over dinner as they all came to fruition later...
*blush*-COLLAPSE
^ "instant rock star" -- LOL!
Yep, I *would* be impressed if my date knew some arcane food data that I did or didn't know.
If I were on a first date, and the guy asked if I'd mind if he ate garlic, I would write him off. It's like he's assuming a) there will be a kiss and b) I can't spot a manipulative tactic when I see one.
Also, I don't want to be thinking about breath and taste when kissing someone, I just want to kiss them!
What's "third base?"
i try to familiarize myself with the menu before the date. all of the restaurants have their menus online and it only takes 5 minutes to look at. you could do this after you stepped out of the shower while you're getting ready for your date. this gives you time to relax and focus on your date rather than be overwhelmed by a great menu and wine list. also, this way, if you don't know what a...+READ
i try to familiarize myself with the menu before the date. all of the restaurants have their menus online and it only takes 5 minutes to look at. you could do this after you stepped out of the shower while you're getting ready for your date. this gives you time to relax and focus on your date rather than be overwhelmed by a great menu and wine list. also, this way, if you don't know what a certain ingredient is or a particular sauce is, you can google it and avoid appearing ignorant. better yet, your date may wonder out loud about the very same thing and you look like an instant rock star for having the answer.-COLLAPSE
I think this is pretty BAD advice actually.
Just because you should be yourself on a first date doesn't mean that you shouldn't try your best to make a good first impression. Sure I like garlic and normally wouldn't think twice about ordering a dish with some in it...but I also wouldn't normally think twice about wearing my favorite old t-shirt out to a casual restuarant, that doesn't mean you...+READ
I think this is pretty BAD advice actually.
Just because you should be yourself on a first date doesn't mean that you shouldn't try your best to make a good first impression. Sure I like garlic and normally wouldn't think twice about ordering a dish with some in it...but I also wouldn't normally think twice about wearing my favorite old t-shirt out to a casual restuarant, that doesn't mean you should do it on a first date.
Just avoid the smelly stuff, the spicy stuff, the messy stuff, put on a clean shirt, and share desert. Works like a charm.-COLLAPSE
lol on the holding in farts.....remember that scene in Along Comes Polly when Ben Stiller ate all that spicy food to impress Jennifer Aniston? hehe.
Of course, there are foods you might want to avoid on a first, second, or third date. Anything too beany (please pass up the refried beans or spicy chili) or anything too strongly flavored. A great guy can turn into a nasty pig with nasty breath very easily.
So can the great gal, but when either party is reeking of onions and garlic and making faces and squirming because of painfully holding in...+READ
Of course, there are foods you might want to avoid on a first, second, or third date. Anything too beany (please pass up the refried beans or spicy chili) or anything too strongly flavored. A great guy can turn into a nasty pig with nasty breath very easily.
So can the great gal, but when either party is reeking of onions and garlic and making faces and squirming because of painfully holding in farts, it doesn't make for a great date.
The first dates are crucial in evaluating the person with whom you've chosen to spend your time. Bad manners can ruin it, but a little self-deprecating humor about "I can't order that, or it'll be all over my shirt" can get you to *whatever* base much sooner.
Good manners with laughter about perhaps dropping your biscotti into your coffee and having to fish it out with a coffee stirring stick can make for a memorable time. But it's also important to let the person know (by your manners and politeness) that you have been "raised right", but that you aren't so high on your horse that you can't realize that people may make the occasional mistake.-COLLAPSE
My girlfriend is a smoker. I hate her nasty breath so occasionally I will join her for a smoke so I wont mind it so much. I think most people like garlic but hate garlic breath. So as a favor to yourself, order garlic if your date does. If you want a garlicy entre but are afraid your date wont order garlic, then order an appetizer with garlic in it.
As for drinking. Drink as much as your date....+READ
My girlfriend is a smoker. I hate her nasty breath so occasionally I will join her for a smoke so I wont mind it so much. I think most people like garlic but hate garlic breath. So as a favor to yourself, order garlic if your date does. If you want a garlicy entre but are afraid your date wont order garlic, then order an appetizer with garlic in it.
As for drinking. Drink as much as your date. If she/he isn't drinking I think it's OK to have one or two. If your date is having 5 or 6, go ahead and get to know eahother a little faster. But avoid drinking red wine unless your date is also. Stained teeth are gross. Red wine teeth remind me of the stuff the dentist applies to highlight plaque build up, SICK. So I think of plaque when I see teeth tarnished by merlot. But it's more than OK to share a bottle. There is something cute about a couple walking around with questionable smiles.
Avoid red sauces if you or your date is wearing white. Same with greasy foods. chances are you might touch the small of her back or whipe your thighs. Grease stains are not classy. Grease stains are grimmy and they smell like fast food.-COLLAPSE
sheesh, hold it with all the feeding each other and licking fingers talk. totally not going to work on a first date! And I'm eating here.
I always order the penne or ziti rather than spaghetti just to avoid splattering sauce on my shirt.
As a single woman, i tend to shy away from dinner on a first date, weenie that i am, i'm often a little nervous to eat much, and truthfully, if i'm comfortable chowing down big time on a first date, to me, kinda signals that maybe that person is not influencing any butterflies for me, maybe better as a buddy. I also hate the coffee date thing. Again, i'm somewhat nervous, i don't need extra...+READ
As a single woman, i tend to shy away from dinner on a first date, weenie that i am, i'm often a little nervous to eat much, and truthfully, if i'm comfortable chowing down big time on a first date, to me, kinda signals that maybe that person is not influencing any butterflies for me, maybe better as a buddy. I also hate the coffee date thing. Again, i'm somewhat nervous, i don't need extra caffiene coarsing through my veins, and something about coffee dates at your run of the mill coffee shop smacks of post-AA meeting gatherings or internet dating to me, dunno why. Everyone has their preferences though, some people despise the movie date and i actually like these. I can usually manage a few morsels however, on a first date and would have a few dinner deal breakers:
-I want someone to be themselves, but not so comfortable that they'll belch their way through dinner, or drinks for that matter (I could care less if you've had a beer, quell it !) , don't pick your teeth and if you're going to make a move post-dinner, make sure there's nothing lodged in your teeth, ick.
-this has never personally happened to me, but now is really not the time to ream out the wait staff or make a huge deal over a dish. Then again, maybe it's best to see the anger control issues right away in order to bolt.
-i tend to avoid garlic and raw onions not only during a date but the day of....not really a deal breaker per se but maybe just considerate.
-watch the booze....packing away a 12 pack during dinner is never endearing i think. I once went on a date with a guy who not only had a couple during dinner, but during our scenic drive, pulled out a six pack and proceeded to drink and drive, literally, we were in a remote area, and this was pre cell phone....I have to say i was scared...and i didn't go out with him again.
-no nose blowing at the table ! I hate this. in general, no bodily functions...i'm all for being yourself, but is there no room for mystery in life?
I kind of feel weird with someone ordering those sloppy cheesey nachos at a movie date too for some reason...I don't know why.
And feeding food to each other is far too intimate and "couple-y" for a first date. An "OMG this is so good would you like to try it?", sort of thing could be ok.
May not a great idea to bring a first date to your regular haunt, particularly if it's a pub. Having a first date interrupted with "hey buddy!'s" and such, never mind the overwhelming familiarity the waitresses have with a guy, kinda aint so great. Does this guy live here? How many women does he know? Will the bartender be accopanying us on our second date? Are all his buddies kinda monitoring how this date is goin? ick.
At the same time, try and pick a somewhat generic restaurant, i am really open minded about food and don't shy away from the spicy or the odd...but not everyone could be that way.-COLLAPSE
There's a great part in one of Salinger's books (I think it's Franny and Zooey) where he writes something along these lines:
"Sickler's was where a student and his date either both ordered salad or, usually, neither of them did, because of the garlic seasoning."
Definitely take some cues from your date. If she opts for something with garlic, you should too. As someone posted above, you...+READ
There's a great part in one of Salinger's books (I think it's Franny and Zooey) where he writes something along these lines:
"Sickler's was where a student and his date either both ordered salad or, usually, neither of them did, because of the garlic seasoning."
Definitely take some cues from your date. If she opts for something with garlic, you should too. As someone posted above, you probably won't notice it on someone's breath if it's on yours, too.-COLLAPSE
Eat food that won't splatter, creating a lovely, highly visible stain i.e. tomato sauce. Maybe your date won't mind, but you certainly will and you will feel and act awkwardly. That's a date-killer.
During the date you want to show yourself at your best: good table manners are important, not fussing about the food is another. Eating a meal with your hands is not advisable (the frat-boy warning...+READ
Eat food that won't splatter, creating a lovely, highly visible stain i.e. tomato sauce. Maybe your date won't mind, but you certainly will and you will feel and act awkwardly. That's a date-killer.
During the date you want to show yourself at your best: good table manners are important, not fussing about the food is another. Eating a meal with your hands is not advisable (the frat-boy warning sign goes up) unless it's something you're prepared to laugh about if something goes wrong.
Order food that is share-able, or could be a conversation starter ("Mussels with frites. I had them when I was in Belgium. Have you ever been?)-COLLAPSE
I agree with lilyalli, good table manners are more important than what you eat. I'd much rather share a chagrined laugh during an "oops" moment with the spaghetti sauce than endure openmouth chewing, obnoxious belches or tooth-mining for food particles. Just ew.
I don't think it's so much 'what' you eat, as 'how' you eat it. Correct etiquette & manners are important. As for your breath, that's what gum or mints are for.
The most important thing to think of is what you want out of this date. If you are looking for long term then just be yourself and eat what you want. Otherwise you will waste a lot of time trying to please someone who may run to the hills when they find out what you really like to eat. I would suggest asking your date if he/she would like to split two entrees. You will open up a conversation...+READ
The most important thing to think of is what you want out of this date. If you are looking for long term then just be yourself and eat what you want. Otherwise you will waste a lot of time trying to please someone who may run to the hills when they find out what you really like to eat. I would suggest asking your date if he/she would like to split two entrees. You will open up a conversation about food and each of you will be able to sample more off the menu. This may also help you determine what foods may be out of the question. Try a simple, 'What were you thinking of ordering?" If she is torn between two entrees, order them both and share.
If you are just looking to get laid stay away from anything that will get stuck in your teeth and bring a toothbrush to brush your teeth in the men's room before making your move.-COLLAPSE
This reminds me of the date I had where I knew he wasn't for me the third (yes 3rd) time he pulled a handfull of spagetti out of his mouth.
Actually morrigan, traditional Ethiopian etiquette frowns on licking one's fingers, no matter how tempting it may be. Think of it as the equivalent of double-dipping at a party.
Okay...yes and no. I have heard repeatedly that people can tell a lot about you (take this as you will) by the way you eat. I woulde perfer to date someone who really enjoyed food than ordered something "neat"... I like the Ethiopean idea. Much mutual licking of fingers...
NervousB should discuss with the lady in question what preferences they have in common. There will be a lot less stress if they're on common ground. I don't think trying to be someone you're not is a good way to start a relationship, so trying too hard to impress will probably backfire in the long run.
I have had some amazing romantic "hands on" meals. There is nothing more sensual than two people enjoying an Ethiopian Combo platter; feeding each other delicious food wrapped in bits of soft injera. Then follow that at someon'es home with a few glasses of port and chocolate covered berried or some fine truffles, again, fed to each other.
ONe of our most romantic meals was sushi from our...+READ
I have had some amazing romantic "hands on" meals. There is nothing more sensual than two people enjoying an Ethiopian Combo platter; feeding each other delicious food wrapped in bits of soft injera. Then follow that at someon'es home with a few glasses of port and chocolate covered berried or some fine truffles, again, fed to each other.
ONe of our most romantic meals was sushi from our favorite sushi spot, served on a large patter by candle light on the bed! I won't go into more detail with that one.
Then again, for a first date, that sushi in bed idea is probably not a good choice.-COLLAPSE
While I can maybe see a messy meal leading to interesting conversation and ice-breaker laughs, yeah, I would just stick to avoiding messy, finger-licking foods altogether for a first or second date. Then, once you can prove to your date that you aren't a slob, you can open it up to BBQ ribs, etc.
Eat what you like. If your date can't handle it, then too bad.
Very much the same rules as for a business lunch. No dishes that are overly "hands on" or otherwise hard to eat while carrying on a conversation,or so aromatic as to be smelly, anything that will make a stain you'll never forget (curry, beets).
I would also avoid bbq ribs because it is just very messy to eat and you end up with dirty napkins and bbq sauce all over the table.
Most importantly, don't drink too much. You don't want to be saying the wrong things because you are drunk.