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From the comments on “Leftovers: The Career Killer:
I think Helena should start focusing on real “table manners” issues instead of fringe nonsense and manners only affordable to the well-off, as is the case here. As it stands, I currently continue to read this article for its entertainment value rather than for any useful information. I can think of some topics that it would be great to see covered: for example … [a] comparative cross-cultural study of the proper way to enjoy noodles. —vorpal
Dear vorpal,
You asked, so I’ll answer. I investigated noodle etiquette in five great noodle cuisines: Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, and Japanese. Here’s what I found out.
Italy
Italians twirl long pastas like spaghetti and linguine, making a “small nest” with their fork, says Enrico Bazzoni, a native Italian and a chef with the Italian Culinary Institute for Foreigners, a nonprofit institution that promotes Italian culinary traditions. Viana La Place, author of My Italian Garden: More than 125 Seasonal Recipes from a Garden Inspired by Italy and other books on Italian cooking, explains that twirling helps “capture the little pieces in the sauce” like capers and pine nuts. Unlike some Americans, Italians nowadays typically don’t place the tines of the fork against the bowl of a spoon as they coil up their pasta, Bazzoni says. “Traditionally people did use a spoon and fork, but in the last five or ten years, most people have stopped using the spoon. They realized it wasn’t necessary, or it just fell out of fashion.”
China
The Chinese pick up noodles with their chopsticks, but they don’t bother twirling, says Corinne Trang, author of Essentials of Asian Cuisine: Fundamentals and Favorite Recipes. When eating noodle soups, you hold your chopsticks in one hand and your soup spoon in the other, Trang says. Take a spoonful of broth and pick up some noodles with your chopsticks. Deposit the noodles in your spoon with the broth, and then eat the contents of the spoon, using your chopsticks to help the noodles into your mouth. That way you can enjoy the broth and noodles simultaneously. (If you wish, you can also deliver the noodles straight to your mouth with your chopsticks, alternating mouthfuls of noodle with slurps of broth.) Slurping is de rigueur among the Chinese, for practical reasons. “It’s a way of introducing cool air into your mouth to cool off the noodles and the broth if it’s a noodle soup. … Chinese food is generally served hot, often served piping hot.” Noodle dishes vary by region, but, Trang says, “as far as eating them goes, it’s all the same.”
Vietnam
The Vietnamese eat noodles with chopsticks. When the noodles are in soup, they are eaten with the two-handed approach described above. Andrea Nguyen, author of Into the Vietnamese Kitchen: Treasured Foodways, Modern Flavors, adds that with Vietnamese noodle soups like pho (noodles in beef broth), the one faux pas is to “squirt in gobs of hoisin or sriracha” (hot chile sauce) before tasting the soup. “A well-crafted soup broth has simmered for hours or even overnight. If you add the other stuff as if it were ketchup, the soup becomes too sweet and too salty. It loses the delicate qualities of pho.”
Thailand
Noodles are traditionally “street food, fast food,” says David Thompson, author of Thai Food, and are not consumed with “any sense of needing to be elegant or impress your neighbor.” Use the two-handed approach with noodle soups and slurp if you need to, but don’t make too much noise. According to Thompson, vigorous slurping is not the norm in Thailand. “Thais have an intrinsic elegance that prevents them from slurping too loud.” Thais use a spoon and fork for noodle dishes other than soups.
Japan
Use the two-handed approach, and slurp with gusto. However, you won’t insult the restaurant if you don’t slurp, says Kumao Arai, manager of Ramen Halu, a renowned noodle joint in San Jose, California. Some of his non-Japanese customers are shy about slurping, but when he explains its cooling effect, “they start practicing.” And if you can, drain the last drops from the bowl. “We like to see customers pick up the bowl,” says Arai, “because that’s when they’re drinking all of the soup.”
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
I am not so culturally ignorant to not know that the Thai use forks to eat their noodles. I however prefer to use chopsticks whenever possible. Because the Thai restaurants have them for people who request them, I request them. I like that chopsticks make me think more about my food. I eat slower and I put less food into my mouth. Is it wrong to ask for the chopsticks when I know it isn't the...+READ
I am not so culturally ignorant to not know that the Thai use forks to eat their noodles. I however prefer to use chopsticks whenever possible. Because the Thai restaurants have them for people who request them, I request them. I like that chopsticks make me think more about my food. I eat slower and I put less food into my mouth. Is it wrong to ask for the chopsticks when I know it isn't the custom? (I even eat some American food at home with chopsticks if it doesn't need a knife).-COLLAPSE
Found the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm_ubnnZusc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideosearch%3Fq%3Dtampopo%26oe%3Dutf-8%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26hl%3Den%26&feature=player_embedded#t=96
There are no subtitles, but I don't think this scene needs them to be understood!
My 6-yr-old son and I just watched the whole thing...+READ
Found the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm_ubnnZusc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideosearch%3Fq%3Dtampopo%26oe%3Dutf-8%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26hl%3Den%26&feature=player_embedded#t=96
There are no subtitles, but I don't think this scene needs them to be understood!
My 6-yr-old son and I just watched the whole thing (in 10-min segments on youtube) with German subtitles--I've got a cool kid, if I do say so myself (and I do)!-COLLAPSE
I''ve just stumbled across this old column which reminds me of a scene from a favorite movie which is even older--the charm school girls in Tampopo who are learning the Western way of eating noodles until a white guy (I assume from the US) comes into the restaurant, sees them, and starts slurping his noodles. They follow suit and soon become a noisy, piggy, bunch--very funny, as is the whole...+READ
I''ve just stumbled across this old column which reminds me of a scene from a favorite movie which is even older--the charm school girls in Tampopo who are learning the Western way of eating noodles until a white guy (I assume from the US) comes into the restaurant, sees them, and starts slurping his noodles. They follow suit and soon become a noisy, piggy, bunch--very funny, as is the whole movie!-COLLAPSE
being half-chinese and half-south indian.
slurping is very rude, and not deliberately done in chinese culture, at least middle-class and higher. a quiet accidental slurp when the soup's too hot isn't terribly frowned upon, though. same deal with the rice bowl and chopsticks - shoveling it in with your rice bowl attached to your lower lip is bad form; holding it close to your chin and using the...+READ
being half-chinese and half-south indian.
slurping is very rude, and not deliberately done in chinese culture, at least middle-class and higher. a quiet accidental slurp when the soup's too hot isn't terribly frowned upon, though. same deal with the rice bowl and chopsticks - shoveling it in with your rice bowl attached to your lower lip is bad form; holding it close to your chin and using the chopsticks to pick up clumps of rice is normal and polite.
first time i went to japan as a kid i gleefully indulged in the slurp-and-burp culture, much to my mother's chagrin.
and of course, south indian = no utensils! other than serving spoons. nice and tactile, and because you know the temp of your food you can't burn your mouth. but even then there's rules and regulations: right hand only (the left is considered the butt-washing hand), and first two digits only, no rice and curry all over your palms.-COLLAPSE
You mentioned that Thais use the fork and spoon for eating noodle dishes that are not soup, and this is true. But you omited to say how they eat noodle soup. For a right-hander, a short, specialized metal spoon is held in the left hand and used to dip out some broth and a bit of whatever veggies are floating on the top. Then chopsticks held in the right hand are used to pick up a piece of meat or...+READ
You mentioned that Thais use the fork and spoon for eating noodle dishes that are not soup, and this is true. But you omited to say how they eat noodle soup. For a right-hander, a short, specialized metal spoon is held in the left hand and used to dip out some broth and a bit of whatever veggies are floating on the top. Then chopsticks held in the right hand are used to pick up a piece of meat or whatever is down below the surface and this is carried to the spoon. Then the chopsticks are used to pick up a few noodles and pile them on to the spoon. The loose ends of the noodles hanging off the side of the spoon are then gathered up via the chopsticks so that you have a nice neat pile on the spoon and this is carried to the mouth, with the left hand.-COLLAPSE
Well, this is almost a year old, but I must comment on two things:
First, thanks for the wide view of "slurping", I lived in Japan as a child, still use chopsticks fluently and can never remember whether I should slurp or not... I suppose that some of the respondents above can resonate to the multicultural dilemmas posed by customs and "politeness".
Second, I think it is the height of hubris...+READ
Well, this is almost a year old, but I must comment on two things:
First, thanks for the wide view of "slurping", I lived in Japan as a child, still use chopsticks fluently and can never remember whether I should slurp or not... I suppose that some of the respondents above can resonate to the multicultural dilemmas posed by customs and "politeness".
Second, I think it is the height of hubris and arrogance to presume to tell an entire culture that it is wrong and "Don't do in in front of me," when in fact, the standard is respect for those around you. That standard of respect means that, even if one does not "slurp", it is truly poor form and unseemly to demand that no one else do so.
Again, thanks for the info. I must admit that egocentric and ethnocentric arrogance make me smile in tolerant superiority... but that is my failing... ;-)-COLLAPSE
I can't noisy eaters! That's a pet peeve of mine and I think it's rude. My mom has a habit of slurping her noodles and banging her utensils again the bowl or plate. ARGH! It's funny cos she's quiet as a mouse when in public. I asked her and she said it's different when you're at home. Granted, I don't eat when she's eating.
Re Stempho and eefoodgeek,
My comments are from first hand personal experience. I am half Chinese (Hong Kong) and half Japanesel, so I get to exposed to both cultures having lived in Hong Kong and Japanese for 15 years until I moved to the US. In Hong Kong or China, slurping is considered rude and while you see it very very often in Mainland China, it is considered poor mannered and for...+READ
Re Stempho and eefoodgeek,
My comments are from first hand personal experience. I am half Chinese (Hong Kong) and half Japanesel, so I get to exposed to both cultures having lived in Hong Kong and Japanese for 15 years until I moved to the US. In Hong Kong or China, slurping is considered rude and while you see it very very often in Mainland China, it is considered poor mannered and for "lower-class" diners. However, you will see slurping in upscale restaurants in Hong Kong / China a lot - just being rich or having money to dine at fine restaurants do not mean that these people are mannered!
However, I do know that in rural areas or in the hole-in-the-wall places, slurping is considiered less of a poor manner (or may be not unusual) as a lot of the people do that.
Now, in Japan, it is a completely different story. You are supposed to slurp - loud and proud! Of course that is only when you have ramen. You don't slurp spagetti in Italian restaurants in Japan. That will be very rude and draw eyebrow.
These are my OWN Personal expereiences. No research needed.-COLLAPSE
My very affluent & refined Italian (native of Cápri off the coast of Naples) Godmother frowns if one even includes a silver spoon at the place setting during our pasta course. It's strictly preferred with a fork elegantly twirling the angel hair solo on a plate.
Our favorite quick & easy Capri dish...Chiummenzana,
A quick to prepare long pasta (angel hair) dish, using tomato and herbs,...+READ
My very affluent & refined Italian (native of Cápri off the coast of Naples) Godmother frowns if one even includes a silver spoon at the place setting during our pasta course. It's strictly preferred with a fork elegantly twirling the angel hair solo on a plate.
Our favorite quick & easy Capri dish...Chiummenzana,
A quick to prepare long pasta (angel hair) dish, using tomato and herbs, typical of the Mediterranean diet.-COLLAPSE
Great article! As an international noodle connoisseur this was of great interest to me. My Italian godparents long ago trained me in the fine art of eating long pasta with a fork, twirling it on the plate, and as such it's second nature to me. But I was quite unaware of some of the customs in Vietnam and China. How about an article on the different ways of eating rice around the world? The Thais...+READ
Great article! As an international noodle connoisseur this was of great interest to me. My Italian godparents long ago trained me in the fine art of eating long pasta with a fork, twirling it on the plate, and as such it's second nature to me. But I was quite unaware of some of the customs in Vietnam and China. How about an article on the different ways of eating rice around the world? The Thais have a particular way of eating it that I always enjoy.-COLLAPSE
I'm an American living in Fukui City, Japan and I can say without qualification that whenever I eat at a Japanese restaurant -- a ramen house, for example -- people area slurping their hearts out. My many native Japanese friends explain that it's natural, it's polite, and it lets the cook and everyone else know that you are enjoying your meal. And of course a good belch afterward is de rigeur. As...+READ
I'm an American living in Fukui City, Japan and I can say without qualification that whenever I eat at a Japanese restaurant -- a ramen house, for example -- people area slurping their hearts out. My many native Japanese friends explain that it's natural, it's polite, and it lets the cook and everyone else know that you are enjoying your meal. And of course a good belch afterward is de rigeur. As to beevod's comment above about only doing what's most comfortable for you personally ... the ability to do what makes your guests and host comfortable is what etiquette is -- it's the fundamental consideration which separates those who have manners from those who do not.-COLLAPSE
I'm an American born Vietnamese person and I've never slurped my noodles. In Vietnam it may be ok to slurp but if you're eating at any vietnamese restaurant in America slurping is frowned upon. A lot of places are trying to adopt more polite practices and slurping your noodles is considered rude for the other customers. Also, I've always added a little hoison and sriracha automatically; I don't...+READ
I'm an American born Vietnamese person and I've never slurped my noodles. In Vietnam it may be ok to slurp but if you're eating at any vietnamese restaurant in America slurping is frowned upon. A lot of places are trying to adopt more polite practices and slurping your noodles is considered rude for the other customers. Also, I've always added a little hoison and sriracha automatically; I don't know if ti's really rude or not, no one seems to mind everyone does it.-COLLAPSE
This makes me feel like a prissass, but mouth noises, especially made while eating, really, REALLY disgusts me, and always has. It's been impossible to get over it (I've tried, but not too hard, I'll admit) and would never wish to insult my host by not slurping, but damn- it's just too much of a muchness. I'll gladly eat with my hands left or right as you prefer me to, barefoot, sitting on a...+READ
This makes me feel like a prissass, but mouth noises, especially made while eating, really, REALLY disgusts me, and always has. It's been impossible to get over it (I've tried, but not too hard, I'll admit) and would never wish to insult my host by not slurping, but damn- it's just too much of a muchness. I'll gladly eat with my hands left or right as you prefer me to, barefoot, sitting on a chair or the floor, burp out loud or not, chopsticks, fork, you name it, just please don't ask me to make noise while I'm eating, and I don't want you to, either.-COLLAPSE
Spoon or no spoon for twirling spaghetti? Long ago, in the Los Angeles Times there was an informal survey amongst Italians on the subject. Conclusion: either regional preference or OK for kids but adults should have outgrown it.
The spaghetti scene in Tampopo was a great East vs West cultural collision, and hilarious to boot.
beevod: I'd like to know what's polite to a degree. I'd hate to think that I was making a disgusting pig of myself in an Italian restaurant by, say, slurping my noodles and being completely unaware of myself, just as much as I'm sure, say, someone from a culture that eats with their hands would hate to sit blissfully eating food with their fingers while people in the US looked on in revulsion.
I...+READ
beevod: I'd like to know what's polite to a degree. I'd hate to think that I was making a disgusting pig of myself in an Italian restaurant by, say, slurping my noodles and being completely unaware of myself, just as much as I'm sure, say, someone from a culture that eats with their hands would hate to sit blissfully eating food with their fingers while people in the US looked on in revulsion.
I think that manners are often silly, but they are tightly ingrained into our society and can't be completely avoided in the name of comfort, unfortunately, as much as I would like many of them to.-COLLAPSE
The right way to eat noodles is the way that's most comfortable for you. Why worry about what others think?
Although Helena's source seems sound, elsewhere (i.e. all over the 'net) it states that "using a spoon [to eat pasta] is frowned upon in Italy". They also never cut it up, something else she neglected to mention.
Also, I observed my Chinese-born/Australian-bred sis-in-law twirling noodles - one handed - on her chopsticks and have been doing it ever since. It does take a bit of practice, and...+READ
Although Helena's source seems sound, elsewhere (i.e. all over the 'net) it states that "using a spoon [to eat pasta] is frowned upon in Italy". They also never cut it up, something else she neglected to mention.
Also, I observed my Chinese-born/Australian-bred sis-in-law twirling noodles - one handed - on her chopsticks and have been doing it ever since. It does take a bit of practice, and requires the use of non-evironmentally sound disposable wooden chopsticks rather than the more slippery laquered wooden ones. But's it's fun and effective.
Whether or not it is a traditional method, I'd have to ask her.-COLLAPSE
kobetobiko, you should really come over and let my Chinese in-laws know how wrong they are abut slurping noodles. I mean, they have that lovely condo in Hong Kong they let the family use and were a wealth of information when it came to an alone-trip all over China on where to go. All that slurping, all the sounds! How rude those people all were - get yourself a plane ticket post-haste...how will...+READ
kobetobiko, you should really come over and let my Chinese in-laws know how wrong they are abut slurping noodles. I mean, they have that lovely condo in Hong Kong they let the family use and were a wealth of information when it came to an alone-trip all over China on where to go. All that slurping, all the sounds! How rude those people all were - get yourself a plane ticket post-haste...how will a billion people not know how wrong they are!
Really, first-hand experience with the culture helps. The slurping isn't considered rude in the least and is a very efficient way to cool the noodles while eating them.-COLLAPSE
kobetobiko, you're comment directly contradricts the column. are you basing your comment on personal experience or research, as helena has done?
Slurping (with sound) while eating noodles (or anything in general) is considered very rude in China or Hong Kong.
Thank you, Helena. That was very insightful, and exactly what I was looking for. I never knew the nuances between noodle consumption between many of the major Asian cuisines present in North America and this piece will be a great boon to me, both here and abroad.
I apologize at the harshness of my tone in "Leftovers"; I've found myself enjoying and benefiting much more from your columns since.