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Dear Helena,
A friend of mine invited a group of friends to dinner at a nice restaurant for her birthday. The other guests ordered a couple of cocktails each, split some appetizers, then had entrées and a few bottles of wine. I had only an entrée and one drink. When the check came, everyone agreed to split it. It was $75 each—a bit more than I wanted to spend on a group dinner. I’m trying to save money right now, but I didn’t want to say anything as I felt I would look cheap. If I’m worried about the cost of a friend’s birthday dinner, should I just not go? Or is there a way for me to politely let others know I want to pay only for what I ordered? —Out of Pocket
Dear Out of Pocket,
If the host is a close friend, you can’t miss her birthday dinner. You have two choices. If you’re truly broke, you should feel OK about saying, “I’m on a budget, so I’m just going to order an entrée.” Bring cash, and when the check comes, grab it and put down the money for your order before anyone suggests splitting it. Don’t forget to contribute to the birthday host’s dinner.
But if you can afford it, it’s always better to split the check. Sharing a meal is supposed to bring people together, not remind them of socioeconomic disparities. If you’re confining yourself to one dish and one drink, other people may feel guilty for indulging themselves. You may feel depressed that you don’t have as much money as they do.
If everyone pays only for what he or she orders, then when the check comes, guests get tangled in petty calculations. Inevitably, someone miscounts how many beers he had, or doesn’t put in enough for the tip, or forgets to chip in for the host’s share. Worse yet, fussing over the details of the bill makes you look stingy. Dan Rubin, a spin instructor in San Francisco, says: “Why spoil a great dinner quibbling over awkward minutiae like who had three beers and who had one?” Rubin isn’t wealthy, but he finds this so distasteful, he says, “It’s worth me spending the extra $25 or whatever to save my reputation.”
If you refuse to split the check, you also must deny yourself one of the great pleasures of dining out: sharing food with others. Ron Kaplan, a seller of processed-food ingredients in Chicago who frequently dines out, says: “Part of the fun of dining in a group is getting to try a lot of dishes. If you’re with people who are serious about food, it’s understood that pretty much everything is available for sampling.”
If the host is not a close friend, you may feel uncomfortable explaining that you’re hard up so you just want a salad. You’ll also feel reluctant to break your budget so you can pay for an equal share of the tab. If the host is a second-tier friend, feel free to bow out. If you wish, suggest joining the group for drinks before or after dinner instead.
When you decline, don’t blame it on your budget. Most likely you’re not struggling to meet your basic survival needs, so the money you’re trying to save is discretionary income. You could spend it on a birthday dinner if it really mattered to you. It’s just that something else matters more. If you say you can’t go because of money, what you’re really saying is: “I’d rather put that money toward a vacation/getting my car fixed.” So tell your friend you’ve got a prior engagement. There’s no need to let her know you don’t care enough about her birthday to part with your cash.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
Here is the simple answer. The rich can always be gracious. Good friends you know you'll see again and again should to. Everybody else pay for what you ate and drank + 25% for tax and tip. If you can't do the math, you deserve to be embarrassed into it.
I think Helen must smoke crack when she sits down to read these questions. Her answers certainly reflect a shallow, idiotic and totally unacceptable view of the concept of manners. As a professional and a business owner, with nearly 5 decades of success under my belt, I guarantee that her answer to this reader's question was WRONG WRONG WRONG. If I went to an arranged dinner and found myself in...+READ
I think Helen must smoke crack when she sits down to read these questions. Her answers certainly reflect a shallow, idiotic and totally unacceptable view of the concept of manners. As a professional and a business owner, with nearly 5 decades of success under my belt, I guarantee that her answer to this reader's question was WRONG WRONG WRONG. If I went to an arranged dinner and found myself in that scenario, I would have no qualms about saying to the person who did the invite, "I'm sorry, but our arrangement was for four people. I don't mind sharing equally, but I am not feeling comfortable about footing the bill for your friends." That is not being rude. That is not letting someone take advantage of my "niceness" to make themselves look good in front of their friends. Obviously, my friendship means far less than theirs, so I have no problem stating my boundaries and if their feelings are hurt, well, that is the logical and natural consequence of their behavior.-COLLAPSE
Well said Helena! It's a touchy subject! I'm polling this subject here: http://nofopa.wordpress.com/ to see what people have to say about splitting the bill when you didn't order as much as everyone else. I think you summed it up nicely!
at an expensive restaurant by another close friend. We were told that only three of us were in our party. When we arrived, 7 people were at the table: my friend's spouse, a couple vaguely known to us and another friend. I did not drink (was driving), the "vaguely known couple" and friend and spouse ordered cocktails, bottles of wine and did not engage the other guests in conversation. When the...+READ
at an expensive restaurant by another close friend. We were told that only three of us were in our party. When we arrived, 7 people were at the table: my friend's spouse, a couple vaguely known to us and another friend. I did not drink (was driving), the "vaguely known couple" and friend and spouse ordered cocktails, bottles of wine and did not engage the other guests in conversation. When the check was presented, the person who invited us instructed "No spouses pay! "Friend #3 does not pay!" I did not want to ruin the evening, and I paid 25% of the bill. I don't know what else I could have done, but still regret the whole thing.-COLLAPSE
It's not a burden on the server if the decision to do separate checks is made at the onset when orders are taken. If one knows they will not be drinking or will be eating light it's okay to say put me on a separate ticket when ordering.
I also agree with some of your points, but not with others.
Instead of inciting the aforenoted festival dickering over who had what, I think that it's much more polite to decide beforehand if one can afford such a thing, and there's no shame if you can't.
If you are short of funds, it is perfectly acceptable to miss a birthday dinner. You can also give some sort excuse noting another event,...+READ
I also agree with some of your points, but not with others.
Instead of inciting the aforenoted festival dickering over who had what, I think that it's much more polite to decide beforehand if one can afford such a thing, and there's no shame if you can't.
If you are short of funds, it is perfectly acceptable to miss a birthday dinner. You can also give some sort excuse noting another event, and offer to take the birthday girl to dinner yourself or simply make sure to get a present and card for them.
In our troubled financial climate, people need to live within their means. Requiring them to do otherwise is not only inconsiderate, but borders on the cruel.-COLLAPSE
I don't agree that anyone should ever have to feel pressured into splitting a check or to contributing to a host's dinner - especially a host who has money. My partner and I had dinner with quite a large group a couple of years ago and it put me off dinners with groups forever!
One girl and her husband who we see once a year if even that ordered two steaks at $50 dollars a piece. My partner...+READ
I don't agree that anyone should ever have to feel pressured into splitting a check or to contributing to a host's dinner - especially a host who has money. My partner and I had dinner with quite a large group a couple of years ago and it put me off dinners with groups forever!
One girl and her husband who we see once a year if even that ordered two steaks at $50 dollars a piece. My partner and I are vegetarian, the restaurant didn't accomodate us very well and our entire meal came to about $20 each. When the check came, Sonia pipes up - oh let's split it - my partner had one beer and I was driving so wasn't drinking. I flatly refused and stood my ground just saying that we hadn't eaten much and were only paying for our own. A small moment of discomfort is worth your state of mind later on.
I totally disagree with all this social etiquette crap of having to be polite, hence spending more money than you have. I never go out for big group meals anymore and if I am ever put in a situation like it, for example, nights out at a bar - I make it known UP FRONT that I won't be buying rounds if I'm short on cash and especially if I'm driving and not drinking alcohol. People are far too polite these days. I'm afraid I have far too many bills for that.-COLLAPSE
split the bill equally now......and then make damned certain you out-eat your friends next time
"It really irritates me that the person in the OP, who didn't want to split the check, is the one seen as petty and cheap. What about the people who drank and ate more, and are paying for less than they ordered? I think it is so rude when people aren't observant about what other people are ordering....and then expect others to pay for their booze and dessert. I agree that quibbling over a few...+READ
"It really irritates me that the person in the OP, who didn't want to split the check, is the one seen as petty and cheap. What about the people who drank and ate more, and are paying for less than they ordered? I think it is so rude when people aren't observant about what other people are ordering....and then expect others to pay for their booze and dessert. I agree that quibbling over a few dollars isn't worth it when you're celebrating something...but ordering a lot of food and booze and then not pay for it is really obnoxious."
I agree. I used to belong to a social group and often there was a dinner with a large number, many of whom did not know one another. This problem arose often and I stopped going. Now, my SO and I only dine with a small group of friends and we all only pay for what we ate or drank.-COLLAPSE
Reading through this has been pretty enlightening...and helps me understand better why I have never in my life planned my own birthday celebration. Not because I truly expected to pay for everyone, but for the egotism involved that goes along with the idea of "come celebrate ME but don't forget to pay!"
However, I do not know a single person in my NYC circle that believes the "host" should pay....+READ
Reading through this has been pretty enlightening...and helps me understand better why I have never in my life planned my own birthday celebration. Not because I truly expected to pay for everyone, but for the egotism involved that goes along with the idea of "come celebrate ME but don't forget to pay!"
However, I do not know a single person in my NYC circle that believes the "host" should pay. (We are well under 40). Although it's possible it's just semantics...I don't think the birthday girl/guy ever thinks of themselves as the "host," necessarily. More like, "hey, it's my birthday, can we all go out to dinner? Here's the place I was thinking of..." And when it's a friend planning for the birthday person, it's still generally phrased in a similar way, so that FRIEND is not really "hosting" either...or so it appears. Every birthday dinner I've ever been to involved everyone paying their own way and for the host as well (NOT $5! That was a surprising comment).
One year my birthday friend was generous because I had gone back to school and was a little surprised what the price ended up being. She ended up buying all my drinks at the bar afterwards...although it was still a pricey dinner!-COLLAPSE
one more note on b-days - if someone actually sends out an invite in the mail, or e-invite, and calls it a special b-day event, and people most likely will bring gifts, then yes, the host should pay. My previous post was more like a night out with friends with it happening to be someone's b-day and the b-day person happens to suggest it. That is the difference.
I think I haven't a different approach on b-day dinners than everyone. Of course it is one that most of my family and friends agree with. Usually the birthday person or their spouse will let us know when we will be getting together for a b-day dinner. Usually the spot is a casual reasonably priced spot (and we don't have huge drinkers). Everyone pays there way, including the b-day person. The...+READ
I think I haven't a different approach on b-day dinners than everyone. Of course it is one that most of my family and friends agree with. Usually the birthday person or their spouse will let us know when we will be getting together for a b-day dinner. Usually the spot is a casual reasonably priced spot (and we don't have huge drinkers). Everyone pays there way, including the b-day person. The b-day person does not expect anyone else to pay for them. As for how the bill is split I know different people who do things different ways. My husbands family does a separate check for each family (and whoever the b-day person is their bill is included in their family bill). Personally I think just splitting the bill is easier overall, as long as everyone has within a similar price range, but I go with the flow of the group. With work we just split evenly, but it's usually lunch and people don't drink alcohol and the prices are somewhat similar. I know when I go out and I wind up ordering steak and I usually offer to throw in a few extra bucks if someone else orders something a lot less than me. I don't calculate down to the penny, but if the steak is $25 and a salad is $15 then I might say before we split the bill subtract off $10 bucks or so and then we'll split it (and I would cover the $10). If its a big group and I get the steak and the difference is a couple of bucks I don't think it is a big deal to just split it evenly because maybe next time someone else will order more than me or get a drink. Now, if someone orders a bottle of wine and not everyone drinks (which doesn't really happen in my circle) I would think whoever ordered the bottle of wine would chip in a little more to cover since it's only fair if it will make everyone else pay like $20 more or something. If it comes to a difference of $5 to $10, I don't think it then matters too much.
Regarding the b-day thing it is also how you word it. When I first married my husband my aunt made a comment about how if you have a b-day dinner out you should pay. The bill would have been huge for us. I told her it was how I worded it. I said how about we meet out for dinner on Saturday night for my b-day. I said meet out, not I'm inviting you out. I tend to celebrate my b-day with my parents sometimes separately because the place is nicer when I go with them, but with large groups pick somewhere casual. We all split up the bill just like any other time going out, it just happens to be someones b-day. Also no gifts are expected either, it's just a night out with friends. If people choose to bring gifts fine, but I've always stated on my b-days not to. I don't think this is tacky based on how it was worded, plus past expectations that this is the way it is always done. I've never gone out to dinner expecting the b-day person to pay for my bill, especially when it is a large party. Why would I expect the b-day person to shell out hundreds of dollars when it is their own b-day (even a casual place with a large group can add up). My aunt is the only one who ever said anything but she is from a different generation, and from the east coast, so that could be why.-COLLAPSE
@uman ... maybe it's a western thing .. i'm not from here but in my country and other countries i usually fly to, when you INVITE you pay .. and certainly, if it's understood ahead of time that everyone is paying for themselves, then that's what they will do .. pay for their portion ONLY not splitting the bill when they couldn't indulge in your caviar or bottles of wine .. it's safe to assume [in...+READ
@uman ... maybe it's a western thing .. i'm not from here but in my country and other countries i usually fly to, when you INVITE you pay .. and certainly, if it's understood ahead of time that everyone is paying for themselves, then that's what they will do .. pay for their portion ONLY not splitting the bill when they couldn't indulge in your caviar or bottles of wine .. it's safe to assume [in my world] that if you invite for whatever reasons, you're paying .. now, if it's a birthday, the friends usually pick up your tab but even that isn't expected .. so, it's very much not generational but moreso culturally .. i suppose :)-COLLAPSE
@uman ... maybe it's a western thing .. i'm not from here but in my country and other countries i usually fly to, when you INVITE you pay .. and certainly, if it's understood ahead of time that everyone is paying for themselves, then that's what they will do .. pay for their portion ONLY not splitting the bill when they couldn't indulge in your caviar or bottles of wine .. it's safe to assume [in...+READ
@uman ... maybe it's a western thing .. i'm not from here but in my country and other countries i usually fly to, when you INVITE you pay .. and certainly, if it's understood ahead of time that everyone is paying for themselves, then that's what they will do .. pay for their portion ONLY not splitting the bill when they couldn't indulge in your caviar or bottles of wine .. it's safe to assume [in my world] that if you invite for whatever reasons, you're paying .. now, if it's a birthday, the friends usually pick up your tab but even that isn't expected .. so, it's very much not generational but moreso culturally .. i suppose :)-COLLAPSE
one the one hand, paying what you order for is certainly fair.
but i do see the point that if say, i want to celebrate my birthday and i call up a bunch of people and say hey! i want to party on this day at this place to celebrate ME, why it would be nice to pay for it. otherwise it's like ok, i want you to come celebrate my birthday and it's going to cost you $50 or whatever. if i was inviting...+READ
one the one hand, paying what you order for is certainly fair.
but i do see the point that if say, i want to celebrate my birthday and i call up a bunch of people and say hey! i want to party on this day at this place to celebrate ME, why it would be nice to pay for it. otherwise it's like ok, i want you to come celebrate my birthday and it's going to cost you $50 or whatever. if i was inviting people to my house it wouldn't cost them anything (unless they wanted to bring a present, which would probably be less than the meal). it would, however, cost more for me. so yes, "inviting" a bunch of people for my birthday and expecting them to pay does seem cheap on my part.
it's probably also a generation thing. i just recently finished phd, and towards the end, one of my friends (who went and got a real job out of school) had such a birthday dinner. my mom was in town visiting me, and she came to this dinner with me. when my mom saw that we were splitting AND paying to cover the guest of honor, she was horrified. especially since half the guests were still in school, and the bday girl has a well paying job. also, she's from croatia, and i know that the concept of "inviting" and "hosting" seem to mean more there.-COLLAPSE
I believe, when going out, that people should generally pay their own way. I don't know about the individuals on this board, but I'm not made of money: there's no way I could afford to take 10 - or even five - people to a restaurant, especially if they started ordering drinks.
I'm 30, and I've certainly never expected my friends to pay for me when inviting me out (unless they specifically said...+READ
I believe, when going out, that people should generally pay their own way. I don't know about the individuals on this board, but I'm not made of money: there's no way I could afford to take 10 - or even five - people to a restaurant, especially if they started ordering drinks.
I'm 30, and I've certainly never expected my friends to pay for me when inviting me out (unless they specifically said they wanted to treat me in advance), and I'm pretty sure that none of them have expected me to pay, either, when I've asked them to join me for an evening. I feel much more comfortable paying for myself anyways.-COLLAPSE
I'm 58 and believe in paying for myself at a "come one, come all - no host"; If I invite folks to someplace (or my home), I expect to pay for everyone and say so, just in case there is someone I want there and know they can't afford it. If I intend it to be "dutch", I say so at the invite. Pretty simple. I think the only ones who don't say at the outset, want others to pay for their stuff and...+READ
I'm 58 and believe in paying for myself at a "come one, come all - no host"; If I invite folks to someplace (or my home), I expect to pay for everyone and say so, just in case there is someone I want there and know they can't afford it. If I intend it to be "dutch", I say so at the invite. Pretty simple. I think the only ones who don't say at the outset, want others to pay for their stuff and eat/drink free (particularly booze).-COLLAPSE
Oops, sorry for the typo in my post above. I meant if someone else--who is not, say, the "birthday girl/guy"--arranged for the get-together should pay. For example, I was recently invited to tea by a friend's husband for the friend's bday. He took care of all the costs--the way it should be (and he's 35).
Uman, count me as someone under 40 who believes the host should always pay--or if someone else arranged for the gathering on behalf of the host--that person should assume the cost.
I'm wondering if there's any correlation between age and the answer to this question. I'm not so young any more - 4 decades old. I have been part of many, many birthday gatherings. Usually an email invite goes out and a restaurant is named. The bill is either split or everyone puts in what they owe plus some for the birthday person. It may just be the newer way to do things. Usually the...+READ
I'm wondering if there's any correlation between age and the answer to this question. I'm not so young any more - 4 decades old. I have been part of many, many birthday gatherings. Usually an email invite goes out and a restaurant is named. The bill is either split or everyone puts in what they owe plus some for the birthday person. It may just be the newer way to do things. Usually the significant other, or a close friend will send out the email and say, "hey, let's all go out for so-and-so's birthday"....etc.
I had never even heard of the "host" of the event paying for everything until recently. I asked about 10 people to go out for a birthday tea, and one of the older ladies I invited said she assumed I would be paying.?? She is 60 years old. I just assumed it was generational. I also do the going out to eat thing with friends probably 20-30 times more often than she does.
Anyhoo- this is why I pose the age question. How many of these people who thinks the host should pay are under 40? Assuming they are also from the US, that is.-COLLAPSE
I totally do not believe in splitting the bill! EVER! if you invite, you better believe, I assume you're paying - as the same should go for you w/me - whenever I invite anyone, male, female, I am picking up the tab because it's my honor to have them with me for that moment. As far as group dining goes, I've learned, a long time ago, to get the name of the restaurant, the menu, and PREPAY!!...+READ
I totally do not believe in splitting the bill! EVER! if you invite, you better believe, I assume you're paying - as the same should go for you w/me - whenever I invite anyone, male, female, I am picking up the tab because it's my honor to have them with me for that moment. As far as group dining goes, I've learned, a long time ago, to get the name of the restaurant, the menu, and PREPAY!! everytime the bill comes and everyone looks to split [and of course, the none-drinkers are cursing because they didn't drink and can't understand why they have to split with someone that's had 5 beers and 2 bottles of wine] the waiter usually comes and smiles at me and tells me, thanks - then everyone is like "why did he say thanks?" and I'm like, "because I prepaid yesterday and he's just now getting his tip" and mouths usually drop open and eveyone swears that's what they'll do next time .. they never do. So, I say, prepay or somewhere during the dinner, get up, find the waitstaff and hand them over your credit card, quietly and swiftly, take your seat and sign the check when they are receiving their astronomical bill! :)-COLLAPSE
If you are on a budget and going to dinner with people you don't know at a restaurant that may be pricy why not just bring cash and only as much as you are willing to spend? When the bill comes and someone tries to hose you say, Sorry, I only brought $40. What can they say? Make you account for your dinner and embarrass themselves when it turns out your dinner was $25. Now if you start accepting...+READ
If you are on a budget and going to dinner with people you don't know at a restaurant that may be pricy why not just bring cash and only as much as you are willing to spend? When the bill comes and someone tries to hose you say, Sorry, I only brought $40. What can they say? Make you account for your dinner and embarrass themselves when it turns out your dinner was $25. Now if you start accepting their pours from that double bottle of Hess Select cough up the credit card and quit being a stingy bastard. Jr. can go to state school.
I've never really heard of people hosting their own birthday party and paying for everyone else. Who would expect that? Usually it would come up as it's my birthday and I have a bunch friends getting together at XXX, would you like to join us?
If you are constantly getting hosed aren't you running with the wrong crowd? Try brunch. It's hard to break the bank with a plate of hash and a bloody mary...or three.-COLLAPSE
An extra $5 per person--man, do I wish!
It is extremely tacky to "invite" people to a bash that you are hosting and inititated, and expect others to pick up the bill. If you had a bday celebration at home, do you expect your guests to bring the food and beverages or give you money as donation for the food and beverages?
And there are actually several ways to control the cost at a restaurant...+READ
An extra $5 per person--man, do I wish!
It is extremely tacky to "invite" people to a bash that you are hosting and inititated, and expect others to pick up the bill. If you had a bday celebration at home, do you expect your guests to bring the food and beverages or give you money as donation for the food and beverages?
And there are actually several ways to control the cost at a restaurant if you're hosting a party. You can have a Chinese-style banquet, which price is predetermined and the menu is preplanned. You can go to places where they charge per person, including beverages. You can say to a restaurant, "This is what I'm planning and this is my budget--what do you have available?" I know, because I am planning a big bash for my upcoming bday--one that I will be hosting and paying for, thank you very much--and I have been able to get some great options by doing everything that I mentioned above.
It is common courtesy to want to take someone out for her/his bday or prepare a special meal for that person in your own home. It is not common courtesty to come together with people you've never met and probably won't ever meet again, and then pay for their drinks, etc.-COLLAPSE
I'm really surprised at how many people think it's tacky if the invited guests have to pay for the birthday person's meal. Hosting a birthday dinner at home is completely different from this so-called hosting at a restaurant. You're unable to control the cost at a restaurant! As long as the birthday host is considerate enough to check the menu prices beforehand, it's common courtesy to want to...+READ
I'm really surprised at how many people think it's tacky if the invited guests have to pay for the birthday person's meal. Hosting a birthday dinner at home is completely different from this so-called hosting at a restaurant. You're unable to control the cost at a restaurant! As long as the birthday host is considerate enough to check the menu prices beforehand, it's common courtesy to want to chip in for the birthday person's dinner. Depending on how many people are at the dinner, it only comes out to an extra $5 per person.-COLLAPSE
Agreed.
To let a few spoil the enjoyment of others is foolish. They should start them again but when it comes to the drinks make it a cash bar. Let the drunks pay for their own.
We didn't pass up the prime rib dinner (it was free), and we didn't drink any alcohol and we shouldn't have had to pay for the 4 lushes who were so drunk, we had to call a taxi for them. 4 lushes out of a group of about 20; AND I have since found out,they were the cause of these nice dinners stopping because everyone else complained,too. Everyone but the lushes complained about the exta expenses...+READ
We didn't pass up the prime rib dinner (it was free), and we didn't drink any alcohol and we shouldn't have had to pay for the 4 lushes who were so drunk, we had to call a taxi for them. 4 lushes out of a group of about 20; AND I have since found out,they were the cause of these nice dinners stopping because everyone else complained,too. Everyone but the lushes complained about the exta expenses and so the association won't hold them now.
Do you have any kids in college on a teacher's salary? I don't know how expensive it is in your area but our kids went to state colleges and we paid for their expenses on the money we FRUGALLY saved up and neither of them nor we ended their college careers in debt! how is that "beyond frugal"? Seems just sensible to us. They both have over $50,000/yr jobs in their early 20's.
And don't think we don't "live a little". We have the things we thought important to the kids that we spent money on when they were growing up. We've ALWAYS (22 years) had a computer(both daughters lives are very computer oriented and work in the field), we have a pool, and 2 cars and a nice home. Drinking has just never been a priority and we don't want to pay for someone else's booze.
If by "lighten up and live a little" you mean for me to get stinking drunk and make you pay for it, Where do you live and I'll be by Saturday. I'll even let you pay for dinner, since you are so generous.-COLLAPSE
I'm sorry, but anyone who would pass up a "great prime rib dinner" for two and an end of the season celebration because they have to pay $25 goes beyond frugal. Lighten up and live a little.
ps I am not in debt
I'm not embarrassed by a separate check. It's is the jerk who orders everything on the menu and then expects the rest of us to pay for him/her who doesn't want them. SO, If I am on a budget and/or a frugal person, I basically can't have a social life???? Don't you think that is a terrible consequence for the frugal person because you cowards (who don't want to split the bill because you are...+READ
I'm not embarrassed by a separate check. It's is the jerk who orders everything on the menu and then expects the rest of us to pay for him/her who doesn't want them. SO, If I am on a budget and/or a frugal person, I basically can't have a social life???? Don't you think that is a terrible consequence for the frugal person because you cowards (who don't want to split the bill because you are embarrassed) can't confront the 1 person in 20 who is mooching off the rest of us? I really don't see how the wait person who refuses to do their jobs (by billing someone who wants a seperate check) should be such a sympathetic person either. I'm not at their restaurant to make their job easier....I'm there to have a good time, too. Why do I have to have a quiet lunch with the b-day person when I'd like to be with everyone, too. Why does my frugality have to separate me fro society? Just because the rest of you are in debt doesn't mean I have to be a social parriah.-COLLAPSE
if you cant split the check dont go out with the group do something with the b-day person another night it will help you keep face
I think it is funny that the people who eat and/or drink the heaviest in a group are ALWAYS the ones who want to 'split' the bill. They of course owe 1/3 of the bill in a group of 20 on a clerk's salary.
We went to a end of the season 'referee' dinner at a place we normally would never have gone to because of the cost. I don't drink and my husband always has one beer. The rest of the folk were...+READ
I think it is funny that the people who eat and/or drink the heaviest in a group are ALWAYS the ones who want to 'split' the bill. They of course owe 1/3 of the bill in a group of 20 on a clerk's salary.
We went to a end of the season 'referee' dinner at a place we normally would never have gone to because of the cost. I don't drink and my husband always has one beer. The rest of the folk were "heavy and hard" drinkers for the hour and a half we had to wait for the dinner to be served.
The great prime rib dinner was paid for by the referee association, so all we actually owed for was my husband's beer, right? Well, we were purposely being frugal because we had 2 children in college on a teacher's salary. We ended up paying over $25 for one beer. Needless to say, it has been 4 years and we have declined every dinner since.
So, please before you condemn people for being frugal, try to see the other side of the whiskey glass on one of your sober moments. By the by, our kids are now in great careers and most of the others kids are struggling to make a living at super markets with bad drinking problems! That's why we were frugal and nondrinkers.-COLLAPSE
I guess one hard and fast rule should be not ordering bottles of anything if you're not paying for it yourself. Gawd, the things people will do.
When I turned 50 and my wife took me and three other couples to a nice dinner house. My friends tend to party hearty and have a few drinks, wine, appetizers and anything else that catches their fancy. My wife's intention was to pick up the check, but it got somewhat out of hand with one couple ordering a fairly expensive bottle of wine, anyway - the bill was three times what my wife was expecting...+READ
When I turned 50 and my wife took me and three other couples to a nice dinner house. My friends tend to party hearty and have a few drinks, wine, appetizers and anything else that catches their fancy. My wife's intention was to pick up the check, but it got somewhat out of hand with one couple ordering a fairly expensive bottle of wine, anyway - the bill was three times what my wife was expecting and she is a teetotaler. If our friends offered to throw in a couple hundred per couple, I don't think it would have been inappropriate to accept, but my wife did not take their money. This year we hosted the same group at our home to avoid the problem. We have been elaborately entertained at one of the couples home, moderately at another and invited to a pot luck at the thirds. I'm not sure how i feel about this.-COLLAPSE
If the Host is the Guest of Honor, first they need to get over themselves. If they want to throw a dinner/party, you don't ask your guests to pay a penny.
Well It's my birthday today and I guess I'll put my two cents in....
When it comes to this situation, Its not just Location Location Location It's PLANNING!
They have to be kidding! Split the bill? Whoever the host was, should be ashamed of themselves and admit that they need to improve their skills as a host.
The host should have done better planning. They should have gone to the selected...+READ
Well It's my birthday today and I guess I'll put my two cents in....
When it comes to this situation, Its not just Location Location Location It's PLANNING!
They have to be kidding! Split the bill? Whoever the host was, should be ashamed of themselves and admit that they need to improve their skills as a host.
The host should have done better planning. They should have gone to the selected restaurant and asked for a menu that provided three meal options (poultry, meat, vegetarian) and non alcoholic drinks for their party. (most restaurants would appreciate the heads up and it would make their job providing better service easier)
Invite the guests informing them of the menu and their price, which would include a 18 to 20% tip. Inform them that their will be some non-drinkers but If they would like they can order alcoholic drinks on a separate check(cash bar)
Their price will not include the cost of the Guest of Honor, as that is the RESPONSIBILITY of the HOST. They may be friends but you were the one who wanted to throw the party for your friend, YOU pay!
Let the restaurant know that you will be bringing a cake. Most will not mind but some might tack on a small serving charge. Better to bring your own desert. It will be customized and appreciated so much more by the guest of honor.
If you cant afford to pay for the the desert, then ask the first person on the guest list(should be the next best friend) if they would not mind helping you out by making that choice and purchase for your mutual friend.
As a host you are the middle person between the party and the restaurant. You should be the only person paying the bill. Either collect the money as the guests arrive or do it just before it ends.
The only announcement during everyone should hear is a toast to the Guest of Honor. Not asking everyone to pass money down the table to the host. It's just tacky.
I hate it when a bill comes to a table and people start the "well lets see, now what did I have again crud" The last time that happened I asked to see the check, left the table and paid for everyones meal, I came back to the table told everyone the nitpicking over the bill is over, it's paid , lets go.
Oh an by the way all of this can be avoided if we did not put so much emphasis on one day of a year. Don't wait for that one day to let your friends and loved ones know that you care about them. Hell take them out "just because"-COLLAPSE
There is restaurant software out there now that easily splits restaurant checks - down to split items like apps and desserts. And those handheld credit card machines are standard in Europe.
My personal rule is, if I'm not comfortable with the idea of splitting the bill with the particular group that will comprise the "party" then I don't go. Most everyone who has commented makes good points....its always dicey to split a bill because people generally order so differently at restaurants. So, I figure I'm either all in, or I skip it entirely.
I was recently visiting my family in Omaha and was in a restaurant where they were trying out new technology that allows you to divide and pay for the check on a handheld credit card swiper and keypad/screen no bigger than a PDA. You coul djust highlight what you ordered and it would total your bill and you were done with a swipe of your card. If this catches on, today's forum should be obsolete...+READ
I was recently visiting my family in Omaha and was in a restaurant where they were trying out new technology that allows you to divide and pay for the check on a handheld credit card swiper and keypad/screen no bigger than a PDA. You coul djust highlight what you ordered and it would total your bill and you were done with a swipe of your card. If this catches on, today's forum should be obsolete in a year or so!-COLLAPSE
A lot of people are routinely rude and condescending to waitstaff, which I find horrifying, not to mention the height of lowbrow tackiness. That said, asking for separate checks is not out of line and it's not waiter abuse, especially under circumstances that so many have posted here. It wouldn't be out of line to kick in a little extra for the waiter who had to make out separate checks, but it's...+READ
A lot of people are routinely rude and condescending to waitstaff, which I find horrifying, not to mention the height of lowbrow tackiness. That said, asking for separate checks is not out of line and it's not waiter abuse, especially under circumstances that so many have posted here. It wouldn't be out of line to kick in a little extra for the waiter who had to make out separate checks, but it's not wrong to request it. If the restaurant deliberately makes it difficult to order separately, then you might not want to go there any more, or go there with people whose dining habits you're more familiar and comfortable with (and vice versa), armed with a wide assortment of bills and adding up your total as you go. Don't forget to include the tax and tip in your calculations.
And for God's sake, don't announce that you refuse to tip on the tax when you've just had a $6.00 Vietnamese lunch with friends. That's just chintzy beyond reasonableness. Yep, seen it done.
If I ever try assemble a large party to take me out to dinner for my birthday with the intention of having them pay for me, I hope they all line up and slap the hell out of me instead. How trashy.-COLLAPSE
That's one thing I wouldn't think Montreal and Kansas would have in common. If splitting, you ALWAYS ask the waiter if it's ok to have separate checks. What's tacky about that? It's almost always assumed when there are more than a few diners. A lot of places will ask if you want your appetizers split as well. Maybe it's that midwestern hospitality?
If it's a couple of bucks, fine, split it...+READ
That's one thing I wouldn't think Montreal and Kansas would have in common. If splitting, you ALWAYS ask the waiter if it's ok to have separate checks. What's tacky about that? It's almost always assumed when there are more than a few diners. A lot of places will ask if you want your appetizers split as well. Maybe it's that midwestern hospitality?
If it's a couple of bucks, fine, split it equally. But on the flipside what's classy about expecting someone else to pay for your food? Since I don't eat a lot of meat, I run into this discrepancy A LOT. My entree' costs $12, while my companion's steak is $40 or more. I am not cheap, but it's ridiculous to feel pressured.-COLLAPSE
Oh , this one of the things I dread the most when I visit the States !
Here in Montreal , the waitstaff will almost alway asked if it one or many bills. And they dont and you say you want separate bills , they will give it to you. Many places even have computers that gives you the bill already seprated with many totals , plus the big totals. The aitstaff will almost always ask how the wine will...+READ
Oh , this one of the things I dread the most when I visit the States !
Here in Montreal , the waitstaff will almost alway asked if it one or many bills. And they dont and you say you want separate bills , they will give it to you. Many places even have computers that gives you the bill already seprated with many totals , plus the big totals. The aitstaff will almost always ask how the wine will be separated and it appers on the bill.
When in the states , the stares we receive when we ask for separate bills !!!!! It is incredible !-COLLAPSE
When you are invited to function, the rule is: the inviter pays! Unless previous arrangements have been made that is the proper way to settle the bill. Especially when one party only has,in this case, one entree and a drink. Etiquette experts would probably suggest paying for your share of the meal,plus your share of the hosts meal and your share of the tip. I would be insulted by the tacky...+READ
When you are invited to function, the rule is: the inviter pays! Unless previous arrangements have been made that is the proper way to settle the bill. Especially when one party only has,in this case, one entree and a drink. Etiquette experts would probably suggest paying for your share of the meal,plus your share of the hosts meal and your share of the tip. I would be insulted by the tacky cheapskates who over order and underpay and would NEVER dine with them again. Several months ago a friend and his dinner guest asked me where they could meet us for dinner.I suggested a place,since they seldomly eat out. My dining partner and I had one entree each, water and no dessert. The friend and his guest had appetizers,salads,wine and entrees. We had a delicious mealnice conversation and a overall good time. Then the bill comes and my friend(who is financially well off, wanted to split the bill . Talk about cheap. I
was appalled and taken aback. I reminded him that he invited my guest & I. He , to his credit , remembered his manners and paid the tab. I paid the tip. Then his dining guest suggested my guest & I do this again,that he would call us in a week or so and never followed through. I realized it may have been the wine he consumed ,social anxiety,nerves, being awkward, or whatever. My dining guest,who worked in the hospitality industry for 10 years said that was was an uncomfortable experience my friend and his guest tried to put us in. Anyway, we can all learn form our experiences. From then on, I explicitly make sure payment arrangements are discussed before hand.-COLLAPSE
I can't agree more with those who pointed out that it's tacky to "host" a dinner party at a restaurant and then expect your guests to pay for you. I get disgusted everytime I get such an invitation. I turned 30 a few weeks ago and decided to celebrate my milestone birthday with a dinner party at my house (with food catered and plenty of alcohol). People shouldn't have to pay to celebrate...+READ
I can't agree more with those who pointed out that it's tacky to "host" a dinner party at a restaurant and then expect your guests to pay for you. I get disgusted everytime I get such an invitation. I turned 30 a few weeks ago and decided to celebrate my milestone birthday with a dinner party at my house (with food catered and plenty of alcohol). People shouldn't have to pay to celebrate something I'm making them celebrate.
As for splitting the bill--it's totally fine not to skip the dinner. Like others pointed out, just take that friend out separately to lunch or dinner or even drinks. I've had my share of subsidizing freeriders and those who conveniently don't have cash on them.-COLLAPSE
I've run into this situation before, where I was inadvertently expected to pay for rounds and rounds of appetizers and drinks when my friend and I stuck to our $20 budget (that was a total for both of us). It became embarrassing when we had to inform the others that we didn't have the $40 each to contribute to their tab.
I am running into this situation again now, but this time there will be no...+READ
I've run into this situation before, where I was inadvertently expected to pay for rounds and rounds of appetizers and drinks when my friend and I stuck to our $20 budget (that was a total for both of us). It became embarrassing when we had to inform the others that we didn't have the $40 each to contribute to their tab.
I am running into this situation again now, but this time there will be no surprises because we're deciding ahead of time how we'll handle the bill. Ten people - of which I know only three - are planning to go out to dinner next week for a prix fixe meal. Since one of us doesn't drink alcohol, the organizer suggested (via email) that we order alcohol on a separate check. As we'll know this going into the restaurant, we'll be able to inform the waiter prior to ordering. This will make things easier for everyone. No guilty drinkers, no awkward moments.
Such a thoughtful solution doesn't have to come from the host or organizer. If you do not drink - or are keeping to a budget - make it your business to speak up while planning or at least before ordering. Your dining partners will respect your honesty and everyone will be happier in the end.-COLLAPSE
How to split a tab is a group norm. With some friends we split evenly, with others I always pay. Even when I dine with new acquaintances, my inclination is to split the bill. I find it important to settle the issue before ordering, typically while looking at the menu. I will say something like ``My treat today,'' or ``We're splitting, right?'' If I feel a little awkward, I will use the excuse...+READ
How to split a tab is a group norm. With some friends we split evenly, with others I always pay. Even when I dine with new acquaintances, my inclination is to split the bill. I find it important to settle the issue before ordering, typically while looking at the menu. I will say something like ``My treat today,'' or ``We're splitting, right?'' If I feel a little awkward, I will use the excuse that I am asking to let the server know.
I share apb3000's sentiments and avoid joining a large group at a restaurant. It is hard to talk to anyone beyond those right next to you. Eating at home, even if take-out, is more intimate. That said, among some of my friends, we have a chair-rotate rule after the main course. It is a little geeky, but when we meet at an out-of-town conference, we will go as a large group to a restaurant (no choice here), have a course, and then someone will displace someone else from their seat and start a cascade of chair shifting. We all know each other well enough that we welcome the opportunity to catch up with other people.-COLLAPSE
Thank goodness someone said you do not have to go, of course not! I am with others that you do something special with this person or them and spouses, etc. if you are on a budget. If you are the Host you absolutely are 100% responsible. Here is a recent occurence for me. We went to dinner with 2 other couples and I brought 2 wines for let's say $100 (more retail). One couple was there when we...+READ
Thank goodness someone said you do not have to go, of course not! I am with others that you do something special with this person or them and spouses, etc. if you are on a budget. If you are the Host you absolutely are 100% responsible. Here is a recent occurence for me. We went to dinner with 2 other couples and I brought 2 wines for let's say $100 (more retail). One couple was there when we arrived and apparently did some hefty drinking (to me they should have settled up before we arrived in this case). Another couple ordered the most expensive entrees, soups, salads, and appetizers, we got 1 appetizer free (I know the chef and he wanted to try something new out on us). We also did not pay a corkage fee and got free desserts from the manager because I do him wine favors ( I earned this). My entree and my wife's came to $43 plus tip. I paid $130.00, plus the wine plus the free app. and desserts. Now, I expected to pay for the wine as a freebie including the corkage fee, and I knew we were getting the desserts as a Thank You. These 2 couples tried to outdo each other in spending so they could split the bill and I will never go along again somewhere expensive like this with them. I have no problem with friends who can not afford to pay an equal share if they speak up before going or ordering and they absolutley should not feel embarassed, I either tell them to give me a $20 (or whatever) and order what they want, I spot the wine, or we do a pot luck at someone's house (lucky me has mostly friends who are awesome cooks).-COLLAPSE
Honestly, I'm surprised at the variety of responses to the original question.
I have quite a large circle of friends which means that we have birthday dinners quite often. But in my experience, everyone just seems to know that they pay for what they ordered and split the celebrant's portion. We're all in our mid-20s, some in college, others barely into the workworld and so it's just seems like...+READ
Honestly, I'm surprised at the variety of responses to the original question.
I have quite a large circle of friends which means that we have birthday dinners quite often. But in my experience, everyone just seems to know that they pay for what they ordered and split the celebrant's portion. We're all in our mid-20s, some in college, others barely into the workworld and so it's just seems like the fair thing to do.
As a general rule, whenever anybody goes to a restaurant for a group dinner (unless it's pre-paid buffet style paid by the host or something) I think they should assume that they will be paying for themselves - even the celebrant! And if the friends tell the celebrant to put away his/her cash so the rest of the group can pick up the tab, then great!
I know when I go to dinner for my birthday, I never expect anyone to pay for me. And if I don't plan on treating, I don't do the inviting. If my friends want to celebrate my birthday at a restaurant, I'm all for it but I always initially offer to pay my own way.
I don't think anybody should ever feel obligated to put up cash for something they don't want to partake in. And if you're in a situation where you feel pressured to do something like that, you're probably with the wrong group of people.
Amen to sticking with CLOSE friends for group dinners!-COLLAPSE
Helena is wrong when she says "if you can afford it, it’s always better to split the check." No, it's not always better. If you ate/drank $25 worth of items, for example, then you shouldn't pay $75. That's only fair. And, if you think your friends will be offended if you speak up, you need new friends. I think if you would have spoken up you might have found some others at the table felt the same...+READ
Helena is wrong when she says "if you can afford it, it’s always better to split the check." No, it's not always better. If you ate/drank $25 worth of items, for example, then you shouldn't pay $75. That's only fair. And, if you think your friends will be offended if you speak up, you need new friends. I think if you would have spoken up you might have found some others at the table felt the same way about paying $75.-COLLAPSE
Marcia, you are not in such a minority as you may believe. I am in 100% agreement that "inviting" YOUR friends out to a restaurant for YOUR birthday and then assuming that they will pay not only for themselves but for YOU, is the height of grandiosity. In fact, I've learned to use it as a litmus test for whether somebody belongs in my world or not, because it indicates an underlying...+READ
Marcia, you are not in such a minority as you may believe. I am in 100% agreement that "inviting" YOUR friends out to a restaurant for YOUR birthday and then assuming that they will pay not only for themselves but for YOU, is the height of grandiosity. In fact, I've learned to use it as a litmus test for whether somebody belongs in my world or not, because it indicates an underlying self-centeredness, stinginess and feeling of entitlement that often rears its ugly head in other areas (for example, when you've done the person many favors but they can't seem to find the time to do one for you).
Similarly, on those occasions when a group of people get together for a meal out, especially when there's a disparity among the quantity and price of food/drink ordered by different folks, splitting the bill evenly is an unfair, lousy method. Although it can create discomfort within the group, I have found it better to air this topic right at the beginning of the meal, let people know where I stand and make a strong case for people being responsible for their own tab. Again, it's often people who eat and drink a lot, are cheap and tip poorly, who push for bill-sharing. I have often opted out if I know a particular individual or couple is planning to come out and mooch off my dime. The disparity among people's incomes and appetites must be taken into consideration.
On the other hand, if it's just me and a friend, and we're eaten relatively the same amount, or even if we haven't, I will usually just split the bill. In the long run, over the course of time, if friends dine together on a regular basis, it all balances out.
Being a big tipper and relatively free with my money (probably too free, given my salary), I've learned the hard way that generosity and fairness are not innate and automatic, and that it's better to look rigid and make a stink than to k away feeling ripped off and used.-COLLAPSE
another thing i have done is take the server aside prior to or during the meal (not at the end) and ask them for your own check. this is simple and most of the other guests won't even notice. if they ask about what you are doing with your own check, simply say this time you need to charge it and thought it would be easier than muddling up the bill with a card.
i think this is also much more...+READ
another thing i have done is take the server aside prior to or during the meal (not at the end) and ask them for your own check. this is simple and most of the other guests won't even notice. if they ask about what you are doing with your own check, simply say this time you need to charge it and thought it would be easier than muddling up the bill with a card.
i think this is also much more considerate to the waitstaff then tossing 8 cards into a pile and expecting them to figure it out.-COLLAPSE
i, too am broke most of the time. being a student/server in san francisco i have many broke friends, too. that said, we all love food and can drink a ton. while the entrees we order are all shared, some drink more than others so we have come up with this solution:
when the bill comes, one person will separate the food from the drinks and add a total tip for the entire bill. the group splits...+READ
i, too am broke most of the time. being a student/server in san francisco i have many broke friends, too. that said, we all love food and can drink a ton. while the entrees we order are all shared, some drink more than others so we have come up with this solution:
when the bill comes, one person will separate the food from the drinks and add a total tip for the entire bill. the group splits this amount and pays individually for their own drinks.
being a server, i know that on a busy night splitting a 10 person check can be incredibly time consuming; not to mention annoying, just because people forgot to go to the ATM in advance. i feel that showing up to a celebratory dinner without cash is rude to the restaurant. i don't have time to split a check 5 ways and run 5 different credit cards while deducting 6 other guest's cash from the total. when i have a celebratory dinner i make sure to politely request that my friends bring cash. then the worst we do to the server is ask him/her for change.-COLLAPSE
I think Helena's advice was right on. If you're going out for a group dinner for someone's birthday (which is different than a hosted event) and you're on a budget, you need to be proactive about the fact that you either can't or choose not to pay $75.
I remember going for fondue for a friend's b-day when I was a vegetarian and broke. I could only eat one thing they had ordered, didn't order a...+READ
I think Helena's advice was right on. If you're going out for a group dinner for someone's birthday (which is different than a hosted event) and you're on a budget, you need to be proactive about the fact that you either can't or choose not to pay $75.
I remember going for fondue for a friend's b-day when I was a vegetarian and broke. I could only eat one thing they had ordered, didn't order a drink, and ended up seating at the opposite end of a 12-person table from the person dividing up the check. I should have pulled the person who did most of the ordering aside (because that person would likely be the one splitting up the check) and told them what my situation was. Instead, I stayed quiet and ate peanut butter and rice until my next payday! But really, it was my own fault for not addressing the situation.-COLLAPSE
I agree with those who pointed out that it is beyond rude to "host" a party and then expect your guests to pony up. WTF???
I do not agree w/Helen's reply that "If the host is a close friend, you can’t miss her birthday dinner." Actually, you can. I have missed nearly every single one of such invites (by choice) in the past few years. My policy is I simply don't do group "parties," esp. when...+READ
I agree with those who pointed out that it is beyond rude to "host" a party and then expect your guests to pony up. WTF???
I do not agree w/Helen's reply that "If the host is a close friend, you can’t miss her birthday dinner." Actually, you can. I have missed nearly every single one of such invites (by choice) in the past few years. My policy is I simply don't do group "parties," esp. when the group comprises people you've never met and will probably never meet, and yet you're expected to pick up their tab as well.
What I do is to invite my friend out for dinner one-on-one or make a homemade meal for her/him. It's win-win for everyone: my friend feels pampered, I enjoy it and have control over the bill, and we get to catch up just the two of us.-COLLAPSE
Helena clearly gave bad advice here. As many commenters have noted, it doesn't make you stingy or selfish or not a good friend not to recoil a bit at forking down $75 when what you consumed cost far, far less than that. As a graduate student in New York City with a number of close friends who make over six figures, I don't think I should have to chose between going out with my friends and, oh,...+READ
Helena clearly gave bad advice here. As many commenters have noted, it doesn't make you stingy or selfish or not a good friend not to recoil a bit at forking down $75 when what you consumed cost far, far less than that. As a graduate student in New York City with a number of close friends who make over six figures, I don't think I should have to chose between going out with my friends and, oh, paying rent or buying books. It's true that I'm not homeless on the street, therefore whatever I am paying for dinner is "discretionary," but it is insensitive and borderline classist to say that I what someone like me really means when they say they can't pay is that they'd rather do something else with their money. Sure I would! Like paying for my health insurance, being able to afford a trip to see my parents once a year, or paying my cell phone bill.
I find that, after several years of being in school, my friends are sensitive to my circumstances and we usually go someplace we all can afford and have a good time, or they spot me when it's appropriate. I often feel bad/guilty about this, so it's not something I expect and I always pay my own way when I can. When I do have a little extra money, I'm happy not to haggle over minutia, and I agree that can be really annoying. But it's equally annoying to go out and have friends who are callous to your situation and therefore order 4 bottles of wine and all the appetizers on the menu.
I think the best thing to do is to be upfront from the get-go and choose when you will be splurging for things like this wisely. If it's your best friend's 30th birthday, OK. If it's a friend-of-a-friend who just got promoted, maybe stay home or meet them for drinks later. Whatever the case, you should NOT feel bad about being less well off than your friends. If they feel bad because you're budgeting, it's their own yuppie guilt that is making them feel that way.-COLLAPSE
I have to admit, haggling over the check drives me nuts. Really. It ended a budding friendship when I went out to dinner with six other people, and two people insisting on haggling over the last penny, even though one of them had a much more expensive entree, and the other drank more wine than I did. It just ruins an otherwise relaxing evening for me.
My suggestion? It would be better if the...+READ
I have to admit, haggling over the check drives me nuts. Really. It ended a budding friendship when I went out to dinner with six other people, and two people insisting on haggling over the last penny, even though one of them had a much more expensive entree, and the other drank more wine than I did. It just ruins an otherwise relaxing evening for me.
My suggestion? It would be better if the splitter pipes up at the beginning to say she'd like to pay for what she eats ('I'm on a budget," "I had a late lunch," something) BEFORE we order. Or request to split the check.
Now, my experience in DC and NYC is that this is virtually unheard of and the server will make a face, but here in NC, restaurants are much more open to it. Make the request BEFORE you order, tho, because it's much harder to go back and re-enter everything.-COLLAPSE
My solution when I know that I am going to be screwed because I don't have a cocktail (or two), a $60 bottle of wine, a dessert, and an appetizer is to just order the most expensive entree. Which still sticks me with another $40 to $50 in subsidy to the big eaters and drinkers. And it's always the latter who want to just "split the check".
Well stated, Paphos.SK. Good friends respect each others' choices and financial statuses, and that friendship is far more important than what's "proper" or "convenient."
Most of my friends are childless professionals or graduate students. Needless to say, as a graduate student, I have a very different budget than do my friends who work in glitzy office buildings...or at casual but well-paying...+READ
Well stated, Paphos.SK. Good friends respect each others' choices and financial statuses, and that friendship is far more important than what's "proper" or "convenient."
Most of my friends are childless professionals or graduate students. Needless to say, as a graduate student, I have a very different budget than do my friends who work in glitzy office buildings...or at casual but well-paying tech companies. Fortunately, when we get together as a group, we choose mid-priced restaurants and select a reasonably priced bottle of wine to share. (Assuming everyone's drinking -- designated drivers should NEVER be expected to pay for alcohol; they're already doing everyone a favor by staying sober.) I'm sure the more financially secure of the group go out to pricier places, but they have the courtesy not to select those places for group get-togethers that include people with tighter budgets.
One other thing: despite my graduate student budget, I still like trying nicer restaurants. A good financial strategy for me has been to avoid going out frequently, cooking good meals at home, and using the money saved to occasionally splurge on better quality restaurants. I'd rather have one good meal at a decent place (preferably in the company of one special, food-appreciative friend) than three meals at mediocre places.-COLLAPSE
Separate checks is OK for two or three people, but more than that and you're putting a huge burden on your server to remember who had what and who is paired off if there are couples present. It can be just as laborious. Plus it would be hard to divide shared items (like a bottle of wine) between the checks. Trading between who pays is a nice method, if it is someone you see regularly.
Agreed...+READ
Separate checks is OK for two or three people, but more than that and you're putting a huge burden on your server to remember who had what and who is paired off if there are couples present. It can be just as laborious. Plus it would be hard to divide shared items (like a bottle of wine) between the checks. Trading between who pays is a nice method, if it is someone you see regularly.
Agreed that $75 not chump change, and you're not being stingy if you're unwilling to drop that, even for a really good friend. I would be mortified if someone was trying to decide between treating me to dinner and fixing her car! The implication that "if it really mattered to you" you'd spend the money is unkind, I think.-COLLAPSE
Applejuice makes a good point -- why not separate checks? We often do that, because lots of my friends carry plastic only. OR we do the "you pay today, I'll pay next time" trade off if it's a truly good friend we see regularly. (And try to make sure the "next time" is a comparable restaurant where we eat/drink comparably.)
Either way has always worked out fair and without embarassment or hard...+READ
Applejuice makes a good point -- why not separate checks? We often do that, because lots of my friends carry plastic only. OR we do the "you pay today, I'll pay next time" trade off if it's a truly good friend we see regularly. (And try to make sure the "next time" is a comparable restaurant where we eat/drink comparably.)
Either way has always worked out fair and without embarassment or hard feelings.-COLLAPSE
If I know that I am going to have to split the bill no matter who drinks water or wine, I'll tend to get a 2nd or 3rd drink if everyone else is b/c I know I am going to pay for their drinks anyway, why shouldn't I induldge then. I do think that when you get to a certain age you should stop making bday dinner plans and inviting your friends to take YOU out to dinner. it's just weird. We took my...+READ
If I know that I am going to have to split the bill no matter who drinks water or wine, I'll tend to get a 2nd or 3rd drink if everyone else is b/c I know I am going to pay for their drinks anyway, why shouldn't I induldge then. I do think that when you get to a certain age you should stop making bday dinner plans and inviting your friends to take YOU out to dinner. it's just weird. We took my husband out for his 30th and I invited his family and some friends. I invited them with the intention that I was going to treat. Otherwise it's like "Hi, It's my birthday, wanna take me out to dinner?"-COLLAPSE
If the dinner was "hosted" by the birthday celebrant, that person absolutely should pay the whole tab. Agree completely with earlier comment that do otherwise is grossly rude.
Similarly: A close group of friends from a former hometown regularly went to dinner. Lots of singles, a couple of dating people, and two married couples. Invariably, one of the couples chipped in one share of the tab. They...+READ
If the dinner was "hosted" by the birthday celebrant, that person absolutely should pay the whole tab. Agree completely with earlier comment that do otherwise is grossly rude.
Similarly: A close group of friends from a former hometown regularly went to dinner. Lots of singles, a couple of dating people, and two married couples. Invariably, one of the couples chipped in one share of the tab. They were beyond precious to us, so we never mentioned anything, but we SHOULD HAVE, because it eventually strained our feelings for them and we stopped asking them to join in.
This discussion touches a larger topic: The cost of an evening out can be ridiculous. I feel the pain of someone who is on a budget, or saving for this or that, because I'm there, too. But folks, you don't have to be a starving artist or saving for college tuition for three kids to think twice about a big night out for food and drink at the nicest places. Somebody used the figure $75.
$75 is a LOT of money for a fairly casual, regular get-together with friends and new friends. It seems we have gone beyond the bend in our willingness to pay for nice things, including food and drink. I don't eat out that much anymore; when I do, I'm stunned. It just doesn't feel right to me anymore. We're moving beyond indulgence and regularly engaging in gross excess.
Am I alone in feeling that way when faced with hundred-dollar dinner and wine tabs?-COLLAPSE
It really irritates me that the person in the OP, who didn't want to split the check, is the one seen as petty and cheap. What about the people who drank and ate more, and are paying for less than they ordered? I think it is so rude when people aren't observant about what other people are ordering....and then expect others to pay for their booze and dessert. I agree that quibbling over a few...+READ
It really irritates me that the person in the OP, who didn't want to split the check, is the one seen as petty and cheap. What about the people who drank and ate more, and are paying for less than they ordered? I think it is so rude when people aren't observant about what other people are ordering....and then expect others to pay for their booze and dessert. I agree that quibbling over a few dollars isn't worth it when you're celebrating something...but ordering a lot of food and booze and then not pay for it is really obnoxious.-COLLAPSE
I agree with Marcia that "hosting" a party in a restaurant is sort of gauche. People, please stop doing that!
It is a tough conundrum, especially for the pregnant or the vegan or the teetotalling, who will almost always order less than their fellow diners.
More often than not, I choose to opt out of these large dinners, even if it's a good friend. I tend to get so stressed out that the guy...+READ
I agree with Marcia that "hosting" a party in a restaurant is sort of gauche. People, please stop doing that!
It is a tough conundrum, especially for the pregnant or the vegan or the teetotalling, who will almost always order less than their fellow diners.
More often than not, I choose to opt out of these large dinners, even if it's a good friend. I tend to get so stressed out that the guy down the end of the table who's pounding martinis is going to bust my budget for the month that I don't even enjoy the meal. But I always offer to take the friend out for lunch or a drink to celebrate at another time. Then I can treat my friend and control the situation a bit better.-COLLAPSE
It is not always fair to split the bill. I am pregnant at the moment and one of the things I miss is Cabernet. I was invited out to a very popular wine bar with friends and didn't want to pass up the chance to see these friends simply because I cannot drink. My friends ordered an expensive bottle of wine while I drank pomegranate juice. When the bill came I don't think anyone expected me or the...+READ
It is not always fair to split the bill. I am pregnant at the moment and one of the things I miss is Cabernet. I was invited out to a very popular wine bar with friends and didn't want to pass up the chance to see these friends simply because I cannot drink. My friends ordered an expensive bottle of wine while I drank pomegranate juice. When the bill came I don't think anyone expected me or the other non drinker to split the bill when we didn't even touch the wine.
I think it is fair to split the bill when everyone has eaten a similar amount if the food is being shared like in an Indian or Ethiopian restaurant.
Another way to not have to split an unfair check is to speak up to the waitress and ask her to give you a separate bill. Quickly reaching for the check where I come from indicates that you intend to pay it.-COLLAPSE
I am all for splitting the bill evenly for an inexpensive meal like brunch where the difference in cost will be $5 or so either way...but for dinners, Paphos.SK makes a good point: non-drinkers shouldn't be paying for everyone else's drinks. This isn't pettiness - alcohol can be as expensive as the food itself, if we're talking about a long meal with multiple rounds of drinks.
In a situation...+READ
I am all for splitting the bill evenly for an inexpensive meal like brunch where the difference in cost will be $5 or so either way...but for dinners, Paphos.SK makes a good point: non-drinkers shouldn't be paying for everyone else's drinks. This isn't pettiness - alcohol can be as expensive as the food itself, if we're talking about a long meal with multiple rounds of drinks.
In a situation that's relatively even, definitely split the bill. Nothing is more annoying than that one person who quibbles about getting $4 back in change! But if we're talking about a meal with large disparities between what different members of the table spent, splitting evenly just doesn't make sense. If you can't remember if you had three or four beers, pay for four! The rest can be tip.
This quandary describes, in a nutshell, why I hate going out to dinner with more than three other people. I always feel like a large group is a nuisance to the restaurant staff (with some exceptions), it takes forever to be seated (even with reservations), and the check always makes things crazy, unless there's a magnanimous millionaire at the head of the table to cover it...which there never is.-COLLAPSE
This is a very interesting discussion because so often the group out for a meal have, as 'cordybrown' says, different life realities and financial scenarios. I liked the solution of grabbing the check to put down your share before anyone starts suggesting to evenly split it up.
In our crowd, many of us don't drink, so it is understood that the meal is put on a tab separately from the drinks. The...+READ
This is a very interesting discussion because so often the group out for a meal have, as 'cordybrown' says, different life realities and financial scenarios. I liked the solution of grabbing the check to put down your share before anyone starts suggesting to evenly split it up.
In our crowd, many of us don't drink, so it is understood that the meal is put on a tab separately from the drinks. The drinks are paid up as they are ordered. When it is wine with dinner, the person ordering usually pays for the bottle and we are good enough friends that the people who shared it throw in towards the cost.
One solution with big group dinners is to go to a Chinese or other Asian resto. Beer might be ordered but largely (we've found), everyone drinks the green tea, no beer or wine, and shares the platters of food. It is really reasonable and allows a lot of variety. Then the meal is simple to split.
When people freeload on the frugal eaters and non-drinkers, I would suggest just don't go out for an expensive dinner with them. If all you have in common is dining out, well, are they really good friends if you can't say, "I can't afford to pay for your liquor bill"?-COLLAPSE
This is one of my pet peeves. If someone "invites" people out to dinner, whatever the occasion, they are, by definition, hosting. Hosting means they pick up the check. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority with this opinion. You say it's insulting to even suggest that someone would rather not spend 75 bucks for dinner with a good friend on their birthday. I think it's insulting to invite people to...+READ
This is one of my pet peeves. If someone "invites" people out to dinner, whatever the occasion, they are, by definition, hosting. Hosting means they pick up the check. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority with this opinion. You say it's insulting to even suggest that someone would rather not spend 75 bucks for dinner with a good friend on their birthday. I think it's insulting to invite people to dinner and expect them to pay for it. (Furthermore, how the heck do you, or anyone else for that matter, know the details of someone else's finances? But that's not the point here, I guess.)
The point is, if you want to throw a birthday party for yourself, don't make your guests pony up. It's beyond rude. The solution is simple, throw a party that is within your means.-COLLAPSE
I agree with some of your points and disagree with others..Truly I can no longer afford to spend 75 dollars on dinner as I have left the computer geek world for a simpler art life. Yet, I don't really want to give up meeting my friends! I don't think I'm the only one in this situation, am I? So I think that splitting the check is not 'always better'. I think it is a little insensitive and mean to...+READ
I agree with some of your points and disagree with others..Truly I can no longer afford to spend 75 dollars on dinner as I have left the computer geek world for a simpler art life. Yet, I don't really want to give up meeting my friends! I don't think I'm the only one in this situation, am I? So I think that splitting the check is not 'always better'. I think it is a little insensitive and mean to assume that.. I do bow out of some really expensive outings these days but whenever I meet with people I call 'friends' we all realize that each of us in a different financial situation than when we were first out of college and single and carefree. Some of us have retired early and rich, some are working hard and are not so rich, some have kids in college some are pregnant....yet we are still friends. And when we have someone new who says 'lets just split it'..we just genly say..nah,we never do that anymore....and hand them the check and ask them to kick in what they owe. Usually everyone is pretty generous and thus, the waitstaff really benefit too.-COLLAPSE