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Dear Helena,
I just don’t know what the right thing to do is when I use my bread plate. Do I take a big scoop of butter right up front and keep it on the plate? Do I butter the whole piece of bread or roll at once? Cut a roll in half? Butter as I bite? Butter little pieces that I break off? Help me decode the bread plate. —Confused
Dear Confused,
First, take a portion of butter and put it on your bread plate. That way, you don’t have to keep digging into the communal dish, and possibly blocking other diners’ access to it.
You’re supposed to tear off and butter one piece of bread from your serving at a time. That’s what Emily Post’s Etiquette recommends, and modern etiquette coaches agree. Gloria Starr, president of Global Success Strategies Inc., which offers image consultation and etiquette coaching, declares, “Picking up your entire roll to take a bite lacks class.” Starr recently taught seminars at King Abdullah’s palace in Saudi Arabia, although, she says, she didn’t need to offer any coaching on this particular topic. “The princesses all learned to butter their bread correctly in Europe.”
The rule is meant to make sure you don’t look greedy. As Starr explains, “It’s for the same reason you shouldn’t gulp an entire glass of water or wine.” Roger Rice, restaurant manager at New York’s 21 Club, says: “If you butter your bread all at once, it’s like you’re making a sandwich. Bread is supposed to be an accompaniment to your meal.”
On a practical level, taking a bite out of a larger piece of bread can be messy: You could send baguette crumbs flying. If it’s rustic peasant bread, you might need to gnaw at it. Plus, tearing the bread into pieces on your plate allows you to regulate the size of your mouthful. Annabel Day, a director with Jon D. Williams Cotillions, which offers dance and etiquette education, has a cautionary tale. “One of our students thought he’d pick up his whole piece of bread at once. He took too big a bite, started laughing, and then started to choke. He needed the Heimlich maneuver. The bread hit another child in the face … and his knife flew out to the side and hit his partner.”
So eat your bread piece by piece. That way, you won’t bite off more than you can chew. And you’ll likely eat less of it, which means you’ll have plenty of appetite left for your entrée.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
Its BREAD and BUTTER. You put butter on the knife, spread it on the bread and bite it. Three B's! Butter,on the Bread, and Bite.
It's interesting to me that people think that since it's not done everyday by everyone, it's snobby and elitist. You don't want to do it? Fine, don't. But, that doesn't mean the way you're doing it is "proper."
Most etiquette is a hassle. Sending thank you notes, buying a gift, being courteous of others... these are all things that would be easier to say, "Eh, F*** it" than to actually do it....+READ
It's interesting to me that people think that since it's not done everyday by everyone, it's snobby and elitist. You don't want to do it? Fine, don't. But, that doesn't mean the way you're doing it is "proper."
Most etiquette is a hassle. Sending thank you notes, buying a gift, being courteous of others... these are all things that would be easier to say, "Eh, F*** it" than to actually do it. But, it's the right way. If you choose not to, that's fine... but you're still not correct. Nothing wrong with that, per se... but don't read up on etiquette only to argue that it isn't necessary.-COLLAPSE
My issue with the bread comes not from the eating but from the after effects, such as people that haven't given a thought to how they ate and now have chunks of it stuck between their teeth. It is very distracting trying to talk to someone and having large gummy pieces staring back at you. And then you get in the rudeness and disgustingness of trying to clean your teeth at the table or having to...+READ
My issue with the bread comes not from the eating but from the after effects, such as people that haven't given a thought to how they ate and now have chunks of it stuck between their teeth. It is very distracting trying to talk to someone and having large gummy pieces staring back at you. And then you get in the rudeness and disgustingness of trying to clean your teeth at the table or having to excuse yourself before the meal has really even began.
So, how ever you eat, hopefully at my dinner it's with respect for others feelings, and taking in the knowledge that if some on this board dislike people taking large bites then others will too.-COLLAPSE
Buttering the bread you eat with your meal is bad etiquette, full stop!
I'm astonished by this thread - I have rarely seen people butter an entire slice of bread. I thought that was something only children did. I swear to God. And while my circle is educated and polite, we're hardly "prissy."
I think the comparison to cutting up all one's food straight away is an apt one.
I'd like to note that while people here are chiming in about their feelings on etiquette, as...+READ
I'm astonished by this thread - I have rarely seen people butter an entire slice of bread. I thought that was something only children did. I swear to God. And while my circle is educated and polite, we're hardly "prissy."
I think the comparison to cutting up all one's food straight away is an apt one.
I'd like to note that while people here are chiming in about their feelings on etiquette, as the topic has been raised, good manners would mean above all that I would never say or show my surprise at someone who chose to behave inappropriately. It would be even worse manners for me to comment. So, you may think no one notices/cares, but that may or may not be true.-COLLAPSE
I too, have gotten razzed for eating too "prissily" by the bread/butter ritual. Which then makes me internally think my dining companion is undereducated in the ettiquette department.
But seriously, it IS kind of gross when people keep getting their crumby knives in the communal butter. I correct my children, but bite my tongue with my adult companions.
I feel so alone when dining in a group because I am the only one who follows proper procedure when buttering and eating bread. I don't judge my companions for their methods (well, secretly I do) because I know that not everyone was taught how to do it properly. Manners are meant to make everyone comfortable and at ease, but they also set people apart. The ones who care about how their actions...+READ
I feel so alone when dining in a group because I am the only one who follows proper procedure when buttering and eating bread. I don't judge my companions for their methods (well, secretly I do) because I know that not everyone was taught how to do it properly. Manners are meant to make everyone comfortable and at ease, but they also set people apart. The ones who care about how their actions affect others are set apart from the ones who want to snatch what they want and stuff their cakeholes full of grub. But the mannered are considered to be "elitist" because of it. Sadly it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are criticized for our good manners (this has really happened to me) so it makes us resent those who eat like pigs. So we seek to set ourselves apart from those who don't know their forks at dinner parties simply to avoid criticism and to enjoy our meals without having to endure uncivilized dining companions.-COLLAPSE
What always interests me is how vehemently those who choose to ignore etiquette characterize it as "elitist" and snobbish. I'm sorry for you, those who have never seen a person eat bread properly. That your circle doesn't respect this custom still doesn't make it irrelevant.
Does it matter which way the dessert spoon faces? Or which glass is to the left? Maybe not to you, but when I'm setting...+READ
What always interests me is how vehemently those who choose to ignore etiquette characterize it as "elitist" and snobbish. I'm sorry for you, those who have never seen a person eat bread properly. That your circle doesn't respect this custom still doesn't make it irrelevant.
Does it matter which way the dessert spoon faces? Or which glass is to the left? Maybe not to you, but when I'm setting a formal table, it does to me.
In all honesty, maybe this will never be an issue for you, but when at a proper meal, in company that you wish to keep, it's nice to know and follow the rules, even if you think that are silly. It's not something to be made a big deal of- you tear off a bite of bread, you butter it, you eat it. While I don't find the bread-stuffer "beyond disgusting", I do notice that this is a person who doesn't know or care about table manners.
As Sommelier said, manners are a sign of respect for others.-COLLAPSE
You have given very good advice but who eats bread anymore anyway?
"It is beyond disgusting to watch someone take bites out of a roll "
Even if it's split, has a beef patty, tomato, lettuce, a slice of onion, and a little mayo or ketchup inside, i.e., a hamburger? Do you eat your burgers with a knife and fork?
"Like it or not, we are all judged every day on our behavior."
Yes we are, both the snobs no less than the slobs.
Yes, it is perfectly acceptable etiquette to place bread on the table if a bread plate has not been provided. Love the Shane McGowan comment.
Why would people who want to subjectively decide what manners are and are not appropriate have any interest in this thread? Strikes me as whistling in the graveyard.
Here's the thing about eating bread: If you butter the whole thing, it becomes impractical to tear pieces off without making a greasy mess of your digits. Thus you are compelled to bite into it. Not only is biting into a roll or...+READ
Why would people who want to subjectively decide what manners are and are not appropriate have any interest in this thread? Strikes me as whistling in the graveyard.
Here's the thing about eating bread: If you butter the whole thing, it becomes impractical to tear pieces off without making a greasy mess of your digits. Thus you are compelled to bite into it. Not only is biting into a roll or crusty baguette unsightly (see chew toy discussion, above) but the heretofor unmentioned visual result when you put said bread back down on the plate is an imprint of your entire dental history suitable for post plane crash identification that the entire table can see. Gnarly! Particularly if you're dining with Shane McGowan, formerly of the Pogues.
P.S. I am surprised this discussion hasn't veered into the more interesting topic of whether it's OK to put your bread down on the table when one is not provided with a bread plate. Most etiquette experts will say 'yes' and I agree, but I'm sure many would have a problem with it.-COLLAPSE
IF I decide to butter my bread, I always place a small amount of butter in my dish first. I then break off a bite-size piece of bread, butter it, and eat it. Repeat. I didn't invent the rule, I was taught it by my mother (we lived in Europe at the time, in case that is relevant), and I continue to follow it today because I believe it is the most respectful way to keep the focus off my food and on...+READ
IF I decide to butter my bread, I always place a small amount of butter in my dish first. I then break off a bite-size piece of bread, butter it, and eat it. Repeat. I didn't invent the rule, I was taught it by my mother (we lived in Europe at the time, in case that is relevant), and I continue to follow it today because I believe it is the most respectful way to keep the focus off my food and on the experience as a whole (which includes other people's company). I also was taught to swallow and wipe my mouth before taking a sip to drink (it eliminates gulping and dirty glass rims)... to put my napkin on my lap before I eat, etc. I enjoy eating this way, but do not judge others who don't. I hope others will not judge me for subscribing to such formalities.-COLLAPSE
"elitism at its worst"? "narrow-mindedness"? Au contraire, mon ami! And yes, I did intentionally use French there to underscore my arrogant elitism.
But in English: on the contrary, there's hardly a better example of narrow-mindedness than someone who neither knows nor (more importantly) cares what effect his behavior has on others around him. That is a person who cannot see beyond his own...+READ
"elitism at its worst"? "narrow-mindedness"? Au contraire, mon ami! And yes, I did intentionally use French there to underscore my arrogant elitism.
But in English: on the contrary, there's hardly a better example of narrow-mindedness than someone who neither knows nor (more importantly) cares what effect his behavior has on others around him. That is a person who cannot see beyond his own desires - in short, your typical parochial, self-entitled, infantilized American.
I agree with you that the subject of how one butters one's bread is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things; I was taking advantage of this discussion to vent my frustration at the general lack of manners in society today, and as such I concede that I was overreacting to the specific topic at hand. But my general point stands: to ignore good manners is unmitigated rudeness and an insult to those around you
“There is no such thing as high culture and low culture, it all in your head.” Delusional piffle. Like it or not, we are all judged every day on our behavior.-COLLAPSE
"I'm just fed up with those who say that whatever they feel like doing is OK. Yes it is, in the privacy of your own home. In public it's a whole different story. Not bothering to learn (or even care about) what constitutes good manners is just plain selfish and rude."
As a response to this particular view I would argue that this type of narrow-mindedness is an example of elitism at its worst....+READ
"I'm just fed up with those who say that whatever they feel like doing is OK. Yes it is, in the privacy of your own home. In public it's a whole different story. Not bothering to learn (or even care about) what constitutes good manners is just plain selfish and rude."
As a response to this particular view I would argue that this type of narrow-mindedness is an example of elitism at its worst. Those who seek to break into the ranks of 'high culture' are often the ones who are the most vigilant about 'respecting' societies boundaries...but in reality these kind of conversations are simply one more way to reinforce the socio-economic distinctions that govern our world. Get a life people! There is no such thing as high culture and low culture, it all in your head. This is about BREAD fer chrissakes.-COLLAPSE
I appreciate this thread. Etiquette and good manners are important to me because I like to feel comfortable when I am in the company of mixed social circles. Knowing what the proper etiquette is, regardless if everyone follows it, is in good taste. It is about respect, plain and simple.
I think that there is no "perfect way" to butter your bread or rolls.some of the statements made here tell me that there are way to many bread snobs here.my big beef is that they serve the bread with butter so cold and hard that you can not spread it.
apb3000: I suspect you're being a tad dramatic. "The inevitable back-and-forth head motion, like a dog with a chew toy?" I butter all my bread at once and bite pieces off, and never have I had any of this so-called "inevitable" back and forth head motion, nor have I seen anyone else do it. Perhaps my method of eating bread is not as elegant as buttering small pieces individually (then again,...+READ
apb3000: I suspect you're being a tad dramatic. "The inevitable back-and-forth head motion, like a dog with a chew toy?" I butter all my bread at once and bite pieces off, and never have I had any of this so-called "inevitable" back and forth head motion, nor have I seen anyone else do it. Perhaps my method of eating bread is not as elegant as buttering small pieces individually (then again, given my distinct lack of coordination, doing so would likely result in me getting butter all over the napkin in my lap and the knife ending up on the floor), but it's functional and not nearly as repugnant as you make it sound, and certainly not the "dinner show" as which you portray it.-COLLAPSE
I find it interesting that the most spot-on advice here is from one who had to learn Western manners as an adult, namely eefoodgeek.
"...the best case scenario is that I'm dining with someone who will appreciate good manners, the worst case scenario will be if he/she does not even notice. Either way, it's win-win."
Exactly! It's matter of consideration for others. Just because you personally...+READ
I find it interesting that the most spot-on advice here is from one who had to learn Western manners as an adult, namely eefoodgeek.
"...the best case scenario is that I'm dining with someone who will appreciate good manners, the worst case scenario will be if he/she does not even notice. Either way, it's win-win."
Exactly! It's matter of consideration for others. Just because you personally may not be offended by anything short of Neanderthal behavior does not mean that you should not take into account other people's more delicate sensibilities.
I'm just fed up with those who say that whatever they feel like doing is OK. Yes it is, in the privacy of your own home. In public it's a whole different story. Not bothering to learn (or even care about) what constitutes good manners is just plain selfish and rude.
Of course, such rudeness is, alas, not uncommon in this country, as evidenced by those who claim never to have seen proper bread behavior despite working in restaurants (though I would inquire what caliber of restaurant, and in what part of the country). But that does not make it any less rude and inconsiderate.-COLLAPSE
I always notice -- ust as I notice people eating with their elbows on the table, or slurping their soup or talking with a mouth full of food. Manners are manners -- they are not subjective. Like apb3000 said, its akin to watching a dog with a chew toy. In the overall scheme of things, the world isn't going to end if you do it, but it makes dinner much more pleasant if you don't.
I always notice when people bite out of the whole slice/roll, and I wince. This is one of those things that seems absurd until you're at the dinner table, watching one of your dining companions struggle to bite a piece from a chewy/crusty roll. The inevitable back-and-forth head motion, like a dog with a chew toy? It's both unattractive AND distracting. I bet a lot of people you've all dined with...+READ
I always notice when people bite out of the whole slice/roll, and I wince. This is one of those things that seems absurd until you're at the dinner table, watching one of your dining companions struggle to bite a piece from a chewy/crusty roll. The inevitable back-and-forth head motion, like a dog with a chew toy? It's both unattractive AND distracting. I bet a lot of people you've all dined with have never noticed people who butter individual pieces of their rolls, and that's the point - that's the way to eat bread that is least intrusive into conversation and the meal enjoyment of others. It's meant to go unnoticed, like most good table manners - they're not about being ostentatiously "polite", but about being subtle and discreet.-COLLAPSE
Like, oh, my god, did you see how she ate that roll? Buttering the WHOLE thing, and actually taking a BITE! How gross, and rude; I need a shower now!
Honestly; it may be proper etiquette to tear it up into little pieces, and butter each individually, but I have never, EVER seen someone do that, and I have been working in dining rooms and kitchens of fine dining restaurants for the past 7 years....+READ
Like, oh, my god, did you see how she ate that roll? Buttering the WHOLE thing, and actually taking a BITE! How gross, and rude; I need a shower now!
Honestly; it may be proper etiquette to tear it up into little pieces, and butter each individually, but I have never, EVER seen someone do that, and I have been working in dining rooms and kitchens of fine dining restaurants for the past 7 years. Is it really that big of a deal anyway? How many of you that are arguing about it being improper and gross not to tear it up, would really notice if someone just buttered a slice and took a bite?-COLLAPSE
Well said PlatypusJ! It is beyond disgusting to watch someone take bites out of a roll -- almost as disgusting as watching someone rifle through the bread basket searching for a roll.
Buttering the entire piece of bread is like cutting up your meal into chunks all at once before you start eating it. It's rude to your companions because it preoccupies the individual with the functions of consuming. Pulling off bite sized pieces and buttering them individualy allows us to eat at a leasurly pace, which enables us to both enjoy the meal and, more importantly, enjoy our company.
I agree...it's important to display good manners because there are people who care. As for myself, I'm not too bothered by the whole bread & butter thing but I do practice the proper etiquette here...butter small pieces as I eat them. After a while, you don't even think about it. You just do it. It's like chewing with your mouth closed...you don't think about it once you're in the habit of doing...+READ
I agree...it's important to display good manners because there are people who care. As for myself, I'm not too bothered by the whole bread & butter thing but I do practice the proper etiquette here...butter small pieces as I eat them. After a while, you don't even think about it. You just do it. It's like chewing with your mouth closed...you don't think about it once you're in the habit of doing it. Which brings up another topic....-COLLAPSE
"Manners are the lubricant of social intercourse, and a sign of respect for others. "
Well said, Sommelier. An attitude sadly lacking, and obviously so, in our culture.
Picking up a roll requires two fingers, not two hands, and biting off a small bit doesn't get grease allover your hands, chin, and shirt, so there's a big difference. I'm not advocating biting from the whole roll, anyway. Just questioning the necessity of breaking off tiny hunks and buttering them individually.
"Good manners have always been set by the few". Sounds like a quote from "The Wit and...+READ
Picking up a roll requires two fingers, not two hands, and biting off a small bit doesn't get grease allover your hands, chin, and shirt, so there's a big difference. I'm not advocating biting from the whole roll, anyway. Just questioning the necessity of breaking off tiny hunks and buttering them individually.
"Good manners have always been set by the few". Sounds like a quote from "The Wit and Wisdom of Marie Antoinette".-COLLAPSE
Breaking off a bite-sized piece of bread instead of biting off from the entire roll or slice is really not different from cutting a bite-sized piece of meat rather than biting off a piece from the entire steak. If you want to do it differently, please do. Just don't justify it by saying that other people do it that way. Good manners have always been set by the few.
It's more in how you do it than what you do. To me, shredding your bread and buttering the shreds individually is the height of nonsense, and messy to boot. Even if you do it one shred at a time.
I'm not saying that stuffing a baguette into your mouth and gnawing off a hunk is the right way, either. But somewhere there's an acceptable middle ground between fussy neo-Victorianism and Tudor...+READ
It's more in how you do it than what you do. To me, shredding your bread and buttering the shreds individually is the height of nonsense, and messy to boot. Even if you do it one shred at a time.
I'm not saying that stuffing a baguette into your mouth and gnawing off a hunk is the right way, either. But somewhere there's an acceptable middle ground between fussy neo-Victorianism and Tudor manners as exemplified by Henry VIII.
Ever seen dainty young ladies eat blueberry muffins? The pick out pea-sized bits and pop 'em into their mouths . The muffin looks like it had been attacked by small animals, mice or sparrows: not entirely appetizing.-COLLAPSE
Biting into good, crusty/chewy bread is plain messy: crumbs go everywhere, and sometimes a ripping action is required just to get the job done. Doing that with your fingers doesn't totally solve that problem, but it's a lot better that doing it with your teeth.
Buttering a whole slice is no big deal, even if not the most "proper" way to do it (it does look a bit uneducated, though, honestly)....+READ
Biting into good, crusty/chewy bread is plain messy: crumbs go everywhere, and sometimes a ripping action is required just to get the job done. Doing that with your fingers doesn't totally solve that problem, but it's a lot better that doing it with your teeth.
Buttering a whole slice is no big deal, even if not the most "proper" way to do it (it does look a bit uneducated, though, honestly). It's the biting/ripping with the teeth that pushes over the edge. Opens the possibility of getting butter on your face, too. Yeah, it really can be disgusting.
Of course, this is all highly dependent on context, but let's assume we're talking about nicer restaurants, not some barbecue place where yes, you might take a toothpick at the end.
In any event, there's nothing unduly complicated about it at all. There are plenty of example of absurd etiquette, but this just isn't one of them.-COLLAPSE
Sommelier: I agree, but manners can be taken to the point of absurdity, which I feel is the case here. I know very, very few people who don't butter their entire slice of bread prior to eating it, and I fail to see how buttering a piece of bread and then taking bites off of it is in any way disrespectful or disgusting. Comparing that to flossing at the table or licking your plate is just...+READ
Sommelier: I agree, but manners can be taken to the point of absurdity, which I feel is the case here. I know very, very few people who don't butter their entire slice of bread prior to eating it, and I fail to see how buttering a piece of bread and then taking bites off of it is in any way disrespectful or disgusting. Comparing that to flossing at the table or licking your plate is just ridiculous.-COLLAPSE
to Vorpal
Just because you do it does not make it right, or socially acceptable. What next? Flossing at the dinner table? Licking up sauce from the plate with your tongue?
Manners are the lubricant of social intercourse, and a sign of respect for others.
Frankly, I usually ignore the butter and ask for olive oil, maybe some balsamic. What's the propery way for me to dip?
I wonder if soaking sauce with bread as Amanita described is poor etiquette in Canada/U.S.A?
Thanks, Helena. This is something that I needed a refresher course on. I knew about keeping a portion of butter on my plate, but was getting confused about buttering morsels or buttering the whole roll. Being that I am Chinese and raised in a rice/noodle household, the idea of "how to butter my bread at the table" was something that I'd read about in books as a kid but didn't have any real-world...+READ
Thanks, Helena. This is something that I needed a refresher course on. I knew about keeping a portion of butter on my plate, but was getting confused about buttering morsels or buttering the whole roll. Being that I am Chinese and raised in a rice/noodle household, the idea of "how to butter my bread at the table" was something that I'd read about in books as a kid but didn't have any real-world use for.
IMHO, this etiquette lesson is useful...the best case scenario is that I'm dining with someone who will appreciate good manners, the worst case scenario will be if he/she does not even notice. Either way, it's win-win.-COLLAPSE
In France, we don't butter the bread we eat with our meals. We tear off pieces and soak up sauce, but this is only marginally appropriate. The utmost in petty-bourgeois chic is to spear the morsel of bread on your fork and soak up the sauce that way, but we are all striving for grand, not petty.
It is unfortunate that people can't think for themselves.
I like to butter and then tear off small sections, but mostly because it does help regulate how much of it I eat. I would absolutely not care at all -- and probably not even notice, unless serious gnawing was involved -- if someone else at the table preferred to butter the whole thing at once or pick up the roll and eat it as is. Now, someone bogarting the whole stack of bread, that's another...+READ
I like to butter and then tear off small sections, but mostly because it does help regulate how much of it I eat. I would absolutely not care at all -- and probably not even notice, unless serious gnawing was involved -- if someone else at the table preferred to butter the whole thing at once or pick up the roll and eat it as is. Now, someone bogarting the whole stack of bread, that's another issue entirely!-COLLAPSE
I often find that people are very good at hiding horrified responses to how other diners eat, from my own experiences.
That said, I would think it is just easier to just take one piece of bread at a time; going through a tower of bread would just seem strange to me, plus it's a higher risk of getting crumbs all over yourself and the table. Good point about taking one portion of butter at a time...+READ
I often find that people are very good at hiding horrified responses to how other diners eat, from my own experiences.
That said, I would think it is just easier to just take one piece of bread at a time; going through a tower of bread would just seem strange to me, plus it's a higher risk of getting crumbs all over yourself and the table. Good point about taking one portion of butter at a time though, I dislike seeing bread crumbs mixed in with the butter.-COLLAPSE
This just sounds plain silly and needlessly complicated: an example of etiquette and propriety taken too far for virtually no valid reason. I always butter all my bread in one go and then just bite off bits of it as I eat, and I've never had anyone horrified or complaining.