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Dear Helena,
My in-laws are boring teetotalers. When my husband and I invite them over for dinner I always supply them with lots of tea and other nonalcoholic beverages. I try to make a great dinner, and I work hard at keeping the conversation going. During their visits I love to have a glass of good wine before dinner and a couple during. I have done this for many years before they came on the scene, and I am proud of my ability to pick out a good bottle. However, when my in-laws are around and I pour myself a glass of wine my in-laws become very uptight. In the past my mother-in-law counted (!) the amount of wine I drank during a Christmas meal (three glasses of red) and told my husband after the meal that she felt I drank too much. I’m 40 years old and I love having a couple of glasses of wine a day, especially with a meal. I never lose control while I am drinking wine, and I don’t plan to. Should I give this practice up for my in-laws when they visit my house for dinner? Are they uncivilized? —Red Whine
Dear Red Whine,
Your in-laws have no right to get uptight about your drinking, any more than a vegan should feel justified sulking when his dinner companions enjoy steak. But discussing the matter with them won’t be productive, because you have very different ideas of what constitutes excess.
The situation requires an unspoken compromise. To find out what a reasonable one might be, I called people who don’t drink for personal and/or religious reasons, to learn more about how they feel being around those who do.
It just so happened that five teetotalers I spoke with said they’re not bothered if their dinner companions have a drink or two, whether it’s wine, beer, or something stronger. It was when the number of drinks reached three that they began to feel uncomfortable, and viewed the drinkers as “overdoing” it.
After three drinks, says Nicole Daedone, the teetotaling founder of OneTaste in San Francisco, which offers yoga, massage, and sensuality classes, “You get drunk, you begin to shut down channels … so you have diminished bandwidth. You’re not connecting authentically.”
Not only that, but “people become offensive, disrespectful, or overly emotional,” says Abdul Rahman, the nondrinking treasurer at the San Francisco Muslim Community Center. “They lose their ability to reason,” says Sheryl Gardner, a dry Mormon who works at the California Los Angeles Mission.
So if you want to be a good hostess, stay on roughly the same chemical wavelength as your guests. Don’t rely on your own judgment as to when you’ve had enough. The more you drink, the less accurate your estimate of how sloshed you appear. As a rule of thumb, stick to two drinks or fewer.
It’s also a good idea to send a subtle signal to your guests that you’re planning to limit your consumption—for instance, by putting the bottle of wine away. Otherwise, they may start needlessly panicking.
All of this applies only if your guests are sober for religious, moral, or health reasons. If they’re in recovery, you should first ask them if it’s OK if you drink in their company. Rick MacFarlane, clinical director of Insight, a substance abuse treatment provider in Michigan, explains: “Some people it doesn’t bother. Other people may not have had a drink in 30 years but being around drinking can make them very uncomfortable.” Broach the topic in private. If you don’t know your guest well enough to do so, then it’s best to err on the side of caution and take the evening as an opportunity to detox.
Table Manners appears every Wednesday. Have a Table Manners question? Email Helena.
Ok, Well, I'm a Marine vet who served in Fallujah in 2005. I dove right into that bottle afterwards, clawed my way out and now choose to abstain. That having been said, I still have buddies who drink that I still hang out with, and more often than not to excess. I don't care. It was me who made the choce to quit, so it is on me to controll my desire to drink and my environment. I feel sorry for...+READ
Ok, Well, I'm a Marine vet who served in Fallujah in 2005. I dove right into that bottle afterwards, clawed my way out and now choose to abstain. That having been said, I still have buddies who drink that I still hang out with, and more often than not to excess. I don't care. It was me who made the choce to quit, so it is on me to controll my desire to drink and my environment. I feel sorry for you Red, because it seems that your in-laws are just a little self rightious. And as far as the weak muslim thing or religion in generall; some of the heaviest drinkers I know are southern baptists, mormons or even Muslims. Heck, in Iraq the guys that my platoon got to know were the ones drinking at night and touching their heads to the sand in the morning. It's just a crock, a pitiful little sheild those communities use to hide behind. Be you Red, be you, because there are plenty of people who can't wait to come into your life and tell you how to live it. You just have one in your family.-COLLAPSE
If I am out with people who do not drink for whatever reason, I might have a drink; if it's a person who is in recovery I wouldn't even ask, I would just not drink because the person might reluctantly tell you it's ok if he/she feels awkward asking you not to. In most cases it's nobody's business if you want to have a glass of wine or beer with dinner...I'm used to doing it and feel like it helps...+READ
If I am out with people who do not drink for whatever reason, I might have a drink; if it's a person who is in recovery I wouldn't even ask, I would just not drink because the person might reluctantly tell you it's ok if he/she feels awkward asking you not to. In most cases it's nobody's business if you want to have a glass of wine or beer with dinner...I'm used to doing it and feel like it helps my digestion especially if I eat a heavy meal.-COLLAPSE
In Islam the Prophet (s. a. w) says that he is not a believer who sits on the same table as someone drinking. Given that this is the nature of the actual religion and some of those who follow it take the Prophet's word very seriously, they will probably not compromise in this matter, and it's not that they're snobs, they just don't want to fall into a weak Muslim category
Just adding...
With her attitude, I'll bet she won't have a problem with this particular set of in-laws much longer. Shouldn't be too long before she's irritated with an entirely new bunch of husband's annoying and boring and judgmental relatives.
I don't drink alcohol, and I don't care if other people do. What I do have a huge fucking problem with is when they try to force it onto me, "here, taste this!! and, "zomg, i know a drink you'll like!".
If cancer had a taste, it would be alcohol.
I'd love to hear how this situation appears from the other side. Ms. Whine says she's "40 years old." She hasn't worked this out yet with the in-laws? Recent marriage. Probably second. Maybe third. Maybe Ms. Whine isn't all that enjoyable to be around after drinking half a bottle of wine (by her own account, so probably more) every single night.
And the very first thing she does here is to...+READ
I'd love to hear how this situation appears from the other side. Ms. Whine says she's "40 years old." She hasn't worked this out yet with the in-laws? Recent marriage. Probably second. Maybe third. Maybe Ms. Whine isn't all that enjoyable to be around after drinking half a bottle of wine (by her own account, so probably more) every single night.
And the very first thing she does here is to rudely and publicly insult her husband's parents. I'd have a lot more sympathy for her if she began, "My husband's parents are dear, lovely people in many ways, but they are teetotalers, and they disapprove of drinking...blah blah blah."
She has completely slanted this story so that they're a couple of "boring" judgmental ogres, and we're all automatically on her side. I wish I could hear their side.
And I feel sorry for Ms. Whine's new husband, for whom she appears to have no respect whatsoever if she's that willing to insult his parents in a public forum that he is (and probably they are) sure to read; a husband that she is callously putting into the middle just so that she can feel justified and superior.
Like I said, I'd have to hear the other side before I made up my mind. I suspect it would be far different.-COLLAPSE
drinking a "couple" of glasses of wine a day? that just seems out of hand. Maybe one is sufficient. Is not just about letting it go to your head, but to your body. Maybe you should cut down.
Ugh. This situation is complicated since it involves in-laws, but anyone else who came to my house and conducted themselves that way would find themselves invited to my house a whole lot less often.
The words rude, judgmental, and presumptuous spring to mind.
The perfect solution is just as Helena says - have only one glass of wine.
You're alleviating any reasonable cause for concern on their part that you're a problem drinker. But you're also making the statement that you're not going to be bullied or pressured into giving up wine. You're making it obvious that sane, sober, rational people can have a glass of wine and then stop. And perhaps there...+READ
The perfect solution is just as Helena says - have only one glass of wine.
You're alleviating any reasonable cause for concern on their part that you're a problem drinker. But you're also making the statement that you're not going to be bullied or pressured into giving up wine. You're making it obvious that sane, sober, rational people can have a glass of wine and then stop. And perhaps there will be an added benefit in that if your in-laws no longer see wine as a potential threat, they will relax enough to join you.
But if, as I fear, the truth turns out to be that it's not so much that you "enjoy" 3+ glasses of wine each evening, as it is that you unfortunately "need" 3+ glasses of wine each evening, you can polish off the bottle after they've gone to bed.
And deal with that much larger issue when you're ready.-COLLAPSE
That's fair enough Zerothma, but I believe prissy was meant to describe a type of non-drinker, not describe all non-drinkers as prissy. I also agree with weewah, respect is what it's all about.
Honestly, don't use a tagline that calls me "prissy" if you don't want me coming in here angry. I just turned 21 two days ago and I haven't touched a drop. I've had many opportunities to drink prior to that, and I haven't touched a drop. Why does that make me "prissy"? I choose not to drink for a multitude of reasons.
1) Society tells me to drink without sane justification. Commercials are a...+READ
Honestly, don't use a tagline that calls me "prissy" if you don't want me coming in here angry. I just turned 21 two days ago and I haven't touched a drop. I've had many opportunities to drink prior to that, and I haven't touched a drop. Why does that make me "prissy"? I choose not to drink for a multitude of reasons.
1) Society tells me to drink without sane justification. Commercials are a prime example. They show you scenes that are not even close to reality. Real drinking and getting drunk is not so glorious.
2) Why start drinking now? I'm content with my life, so I have no reason to start doing it. A sub reason also being that, it is a waste of money.
3) There is a chance I'll become an alcoholic. My family roots had some extreme alcoholics on my fathers side. In fact, both my grandparents on my fathers side died before I was born, alcohol was not a small factor in that. I've been addicted to much more petty things in my life as well.
I don't talk people down or treat them differently because they drink. I don't enjoy being around drunk people. But if you tell me that you don't like being around me because I don't drink, you have the problem, not me.-COLLAPSE
Here's a fun yet impolite way to compromise: spike their drink.
Why can't people just be polite? The non-drinkers should not critisize the practice of a host. The host shouldn't do something to make their guest uncomfortable; particularly an older family member! R-E-S-P-E-C-T, baby.
The solution for people who don't care for each others habits and are too selfish to be polite? Spend less time together.
I drink. I do not care if someone chooses to drink or not at my functions. With that said there are two types of people that I can tolerate. Some get hammered and do embarrassing things, and that's ok. Some don't touch a drop, and that's ok. The ones I can't stand are the ones that say they are only going to have a couple of drinks responsibly, and then defend their "right" to have those drinks...+READ
I drink. I do not care if someone chooses to drink or not at my functions. With that said there are two types of people that I can tolerate. Some get hammered and do embarrassing things, and that's ok. Some don't touch a drop, and that's ok. The ones I can't stand are the ones that say they are only going to have a couple of drinks responsibly, and then defend their "right" to have those drinks with a veracity unmatched by even the most hammered drunk person. That seems more like an alchoholic than the guy who systematically drinks himself into oblivion every holiday. We have all varieties at our family holidays but none are more annoying than those who get all "uppity" when we don't automatically assume that there MUST be alchohol at the party. That happened last year when we decided to cater the christmas party at a private restaurant. We decided not to include alchohol in the meal to better support good decisions about driving home afterward. My "wine-taster-extraordinaire" uncle felt that we were being judgmental and uptight. Well, uncle Jerry, you can get bent. Even uncle Raymond, who still thinks he's 19 on spring break in Cabo every holiday, was on board with that decision.-COLLAPSE
My x-wife was a heavy drinker and yes she would get wasted often, but not till 2 or 3 in the morning. Her tolerance was very high and she did not want even her drinking friends to know how much she drank, so she would always have drinks at home before going out.
If people are uncomfortable with your drinking then don't drink around them if it is a problem FOR YOU. That is not saying you don't...+READ
My x-wife was a heavy drinker and yes she would get wasted often, but not till 2 or 3 in the morning. Her tolerance was very high and she did not want even her drinking friends to know how much she drank, so she would always have drinks at home before going out.
If people are uncomfortable with your drinking then don't drink around them if it is a problem FOR YOU. That is not saying you don't have to not drink.
My x-wife never let her friends see her drunk unless they were already drunk first.
People that drink are not always out of control like people think! I have seen my x stop drinking at 1 AM in the middle of a drink and tell me, take me home, I have an early appointment in the morning.
I am a non drinker and my x was always a good time and 3 glasses of wine at dinner would not have been a problem, she could have handeled it.-COLLAPSE
My boyfriend is dry for religious and personal reasons and it seems that his mother's family is the same. I come a family of drinkers... MAJOR drinkers. Although I am tame when it comes to alcohol I am kinda afraid of this topic -- we've discussed our wedding and apparently his mother's family would disapprove of alcohol. But I've come to terms with this -- my bf doesn't mind me drinking and why...+READ
My boyfriend is dry for religious and personal reasons and it seems that his mother's family is the same. I come a family of drinkers... MAJOR drinkers. Although I am tame when it comes to alcohol I am kinda afraid of this topic -- we've discussed our wedding and apparently his mother's family would disapprove of alcohol. But I've come to terms with this -- my bf doesn't mind me drinking and why should I give up my family's traditions for his?
I think people need to be more open-minded in this day and age.-COLLAPSE
So freeking immature. I guess because I choose not to partake all of the time i am, Boring. Grow up. Not everyone chooses to drink alcohol. Frankly, I don't care how much you drink, really. That's your choice. It's my choice not to drink. So let's be adults, and we can co-exist for a few hours and respect one another's choices. Real friends respect your choices either way
Unfortunately drink rules the social roost.Its a correct assumption that after three glasses of wine, the communication interaction changes between non-drinkers and drinkers. When your not drinking in that kind of environment, you see how boring and actually how uncomfortable it is. Its usually time to leave.
As a non-drinker, I can agree with you jmarcush. Last year as a member of a Catholic singles' group (which is notorious for getting together at bars), I hosted a happy hour, hoping that I would be accepted by the group. Unfortunately, only a couple of people thanked me at the end; otherwise, I was ignored during the run of the event. I felt like a fool because I did not drink, but I was not going...+READ
As a non-drinker, I can agree with you jmarcush. Last year as a member of a Catholic singles' group (which is notorious for getting together at bars), I hosted a happy hour, hoping that I would be accepted by the group. Unfortunately, only a couple of people thanked me at the end; otherwise, I was ignored during the run of the event. I felt like a fool because I did not drink, but I was not going to compromise my position just to please them.
By comparison, we had a couple of similar events which did not feature drinking. Only a few people showed up--as I understand it, those events are not being held anymore by the group due to lack of interest.-COLLAPSE
These are interesting posts. I have been a big social wine drinker but it has slowly dawned on me, that heath and sheer boredom of drinking is taking its toll on me.
Releasing this I decided to cut down, to a point where I don't drink at social gatherings/meals/home. If I visit my family, they're not bothered if I am not drinking. But it seems the In-laws have a problem with this. Always...+READ
These are interesting posts. I have been a big social wine drinker but it has slowly dawned on me, that heath and sheer boredom of drinking is taking its toll on me.
Releasing this I decided to cut down, to a point where I don't drink at social gatherings/meals/home. If I visit my family, they're not bothered if I am not drinking. But it seems the In-laws have a problem with this. Always asking "Why?", "Oh go on have one?", the usual stock phrases. As if not having a drink, spoils their fun too.
Its got to a point where I would rather avoid going to events, which always are based around getting drunk. It's funny seeing it from the different view point, as I must have been very boorish to non-drinkers, when I had polished off a bottle of wine. Even my friends, have realised drinking is not the be all and end all to having a good time. We were all serious big drinkers, but soberiety brings clarity to situations.
If your inlaws dont drink, just leave off the wine for that one visit. Its just one visit. Try this experiment, go out to a meal/party where everybody is drinking and stay sober, see the other side.-COLLAPSE
Worse for me is hosting an alcoholic for dinner. (Like, for example, my MIL.) We see her once a year, either on her Coast or ours, and either we open the wine for her and start pouring at about 4:00 or we have to be willing to start the "You do know you're an alcoholic, right?" conversation. I'm not crazy about either option but I love my husband and at this point in her life she's really not...+READ
Worse for me is hosting an alcoholic for dinner. (Like, for example, my MIL.) We see her once a year, either on her Coast or ours, and either we open the wine for her and start pouring at about 4:00 or we have to be willing to start the "You do know you're an alcoholic, right?" conversation. I'm not crazy about either option but I love my husband and at this point in her life she's really not going to change. And this is why we only see her once a year.
Incidentally, I'm a convert to Islam who does still drink lightly and my roommate is a recovering alcoholic who doesn't mind at all a bottle of wine on the table at a gathering of friends.
And a final thought, I was raised to think that when you have a guest to your house you do things so that they're comfortable, rather than insisting that they do things the way you prefer.-COLLAPSE
Unless you tend to whip out a crack pipe at the dinner table, i hate running commentaries on what people are eating or drinking. Be it from how much food, to what odd and strange thing they're eating, to their political or social views on what someone's eating. And people who count other people's drinks? When people make a big deal out of anything, it can make people want to do that thing only in...+READ
Unless you tend to whip out a crack pipe at the dinner table, i hate running commentaries on what people are eating or drinking. Be it from how much food, to what odd and strange thing they're eating, to their political or social views on what someone's eating. And people who count other people's drinks? When people make a big deal out of anything, it can make people want to do that thing only in private. Yes i've been guilty on a couple of occasions of the "c'mon, have a drink with me"...probably when i've had a couple already.
No, i wouldn't show up with a bottle of merlot at the home of someone who i know to be an alcoholic or has strict religious observances about same, and i probably wouldn't be comfortable hoovering up the beverages either around such people.
I'm primarily a vegetarian too, and i don't sit around at meals telling people that they're heartless arses for having a steak either, that's MY choice. However i did dine once with a group including someone who felt VERY strongly about such things and did comment on people's meals , including my choice of eggs and why, and i barely knew her. I asked her to stop, because she was turning me off my meal/ruining it for me. She also bowed out of a couple of social dinners with our group because she didn't like the restaurant. Did people enjoy dining with her? No.
I have a friend who is a diabetic who occasionally eats thing's she really shouldn't . Do I feel the need to comment? I love her to bits, but i'm not her mother !!!
Maybe the teetotaller's however, are teetotallers and commenters for a reason, like having had grown up in a home with substance abuse or something, and now they're overly sensitive to it.-COLLAPSE
Wow. Didn't know this was such a hot topic! I have a slightly different take on this discussion. My late husband and I were together for fourteen years before he died. During that time, neither of us drank regularly or to excess. Maybe a glass of wine when we went to a nice restaurant (and once, a whole bottle that we ultimately ended up sharing with the chef. Nice!)
About five years before he...+READ
Wow. Didn't know this was such a hot topic! I have a slightly different take on this discussion. My late husband and I were together for fourteen years before he died. During that time, neither of us drank regularly or to excess. Maybe a glass of wine when we went to a nice restaurant (and once, a whole bottle that we ultimately ended up sharing with the chef. Nice!)
About five years before he died I began to notice that he started drinking a couple of (small) glasses of red wine in the evenings. Every evening. What made me notice this was how uncomfortable it made me to see him drinking regularly. Didn't know I had a problem with it, and am still kinda confused as to why I do. Maybe the inlaws are dealing with something like that, too. Perhaps in their environment people who down multiple drinks at a sitting sometimes exhibit erratic or unpredictable behavior. It only takes a moment for a tipsy, funny, sweet, loveable slightly inebriated person to becom louder, irritable, inappropriate, etc. That's really the crux of it to me. . . anticipating that behavior. Either way, the familial relationship in Red Whine's situation makes me think that compromise is the best solution. Inlaws aren't over that often, so I'd say have one drink, and call it quits. Stretch it out like there was no tomorrow. Let go of that whole it's -my-house-and-I'm-gonna-do-what-I-damn-well-please attitude, 'cause when other folks are in it, it's not really just about you. Even if it's family.-COLLAPSE
oh, the days of drinking bottles after bottles during a dinner seating :) I don't drink now but can understand their frustration {?} I'm not sure of the word but I've felt myself look at my drinking friends, at times, with the same 'wow, three glasses is more than enough' look. But they don't understand what a good time you're having and how much you are enjoying the taste of the merlot mixed...+READ
oh, the days of drinking bottles after bottles during a dinner seating :) I don't drink now but can understand their frustration {?} I'm not sure of the word but I've felt myself look at my drinking friends, at times, with the same 'wow, three glasses is more than enough' look. But they don't understand what a good time you're having and how much you are enjoying the taste of the merlot mixed with the saltiness of the perfectly seasoned lamb shank, right? yeah, but they are your elders, as another poster mentioned and their happiness should be assumed. If I'm having vegetarians over, I try to make the entire meal vegetarian with maybe a covered [samoosa] meat dish, small, for me but that's the same principle. They're having one meal with you, a good glass of Kedem Sparkling wine should satisfy all parties, including you and you'll realize that you can enjoy your real drinks before, during [sneak to the kitchen] and after they've left. It's polite and you won't be faced with the uncomfortable call for an intervention :)-COLLAPSE
Well I'm too old and set in my ways to care what anyone thinks about my nondrinking, but inlaws can be a real pain in the ass. But my parents are nondrinking religious nuts who think that anyone who drinks is possessed by the devil. I personally don't drink because I'll get an 8-day migraine that 3 doctor visits and a ton of medications won't cure. But I can still be the life of the party...+READ
Well I'm too old and set in my ways to care what anyone thinks about my nondrinking, but inlaws can be a real pain in the ass. But my parents are nondrinking religious nuts who think that anyone who drinks is possessed by the devil. I personally don't drink because I'll get an 8-day migraine that 3 doctor visits and a ton of medications won't cure. But I can still be the life of the party stone-cold sober.
People who drink everyday have an amazing tolerance. And yes, women can't drink like men. But I swear, being around my mother-in-law makes me either want to start sucking whiskey straight from the bottle or want to put a gun barrel in my mouth. But these in-laws need to seriously lighten up. Three glasses of wine? Geez! If she had 3 double vodkas I could see why they would complain, but it sounds like they are really looking for a reason to complain why baby boy went off and left mommy for another woman.-COLLAPSE
You could always do what my husband does.....put it in a coffee cup.
some people just don't have anything else to worry about.
just be thankful it isn't weekly, and humor them, life is to short to make such a fuss.
Seriously, this woman serves up a big dish of "fuck you" to her in-laws at every opportunity and then asks if THEY are uncivilized?
Plus I totally disagree with the advice that if your guests are sober for religious or moral reasons you don't need to show any respect for that by refraining from drinking while you are with them, just don't get too drunk. bah. I guess this isn't really so much a...+READ
Seriously, this woman serves up a big dish of "fuck you" to her in-laws at every opportunity and then asks if THEY are uncivilized?
Plus I totally disagree with the advice that if your guests are sober for religious or moral reasons you don't need to show any respect for that by refraining from drinking while you are with them, just don't get too drunk. bah. I guess this isn't really so much a column about advocating good manners as it is about saying that they aren't necessary.-COLLAPSE
I am a nondrinking alcoholic who used to be a very heavy drinker. It does not bother me if people who I am dining or hanging out with drink. However, if it did bother me, and someone who was a family member knew it and had an in-your-face attitude of insistence that she WOULD drink in front of me, I would probably be pretty judgmental of her.
I don't assume that other people are acoholics if...+READ
I am a nondrinking alcoholic who used to be a very heavy drinker. It does not bother me if people who I am dining or hanging out with drink. However, if it did bother me, and someone who was a family member knew it and had an in-your-face attitude of insistence that she WOULD drink in front of me, I would probably be pretty judgmental of her.
I don't assume that other people are acoholics if they drink, but since Red Whine put herself out here inviting analysis, I'll venture to say that she is either really rude (and inconsiderate of her husband - these are his parents, after all) or has a drinking problem. Can't do without three glasses of wine for one single night? Yeah, I've been there.-COLLAPSE
Sometimes the drinkers are prissy and snooty. Or they may have issues of their own. I've seen them both--which prompted me to be a "prissy nondrinker" to this day. I've lost lots of friends due to the drinking issue and my concerns that they were better than I was because they drank and I did not. (I do not drink for medical reasons.) I wish that people would accept each other for whom they are...+READ
Sometimes the drinkers are prissy and snooty. Or they may have issues of their own. I've seen them both--which prompted me to be a "prissy nondrinker" to this day. I've lost lots of friends due to the drinking issue and my concerns that they were better than I was because they drank and I did not. (I do not drink for medical reasons.) I wish that people would accept each other for whom they are and not force agendas, etc. down each others throats. My acquaintances are guilty of this and so am I.-COLLAPSE
Im sure Red Whine needed those three glasses of wine to get through an evening with folks like that. My BIL and his wife were teetotallers who visited once or twice a year from West Va., and wanted to take us to dinner. Their idea of a big treat was Red Lobster, and DH and I wouldn't order drinks when we were there with them. However, when they were guests in our home, they would, indeed, cluck...+READ
Im sure Red Whine needed those three glasses of wine to get through an evening with folks like that. My BIL and his wife were teetotallers who visited once or twice a year from West Va., and wanted to take us to dinner. Their idea of a big treat was Red Lobster, and DH and I wouldn't order drinks when we were there with them. However, when they were guests in our home, they would, indeed, cluck and grumble openly over how much we were consuming.
I have a sister in her 40s who is also like this - drank once, didnt like it, decided it was all bad. One day at a family gathering I was opening a bottle of wine for my other siblings and mom to enjoy, and her son (17) was watching with great interest. I told him that this (the proper way to open a bottle of wine) was a social skill he might want to learn (much to his mother's horror).
Bottle opened, I offered a glass to all those of legal drinking age. When I asked my sister if she would like a glass of wine, she said "no, Im not an alcoholic". "I know you're not" I replied "if you were, I wouldn't offer you any." Her husband (already halfway through his glass of merlot) started to chuckle. Glad I didnt have to go home with those two that night.
I think drinking around non drinkers can (obviously) be a touchy subject. When the ND is picking up the check in a restaurant, abstaining is common courtesy. But if you come to MY home and become offended if Im on my second or third glass of wine, or you feel the need to tell me how much Ive had, then I think its time for you to go home.-COLLAPSE
My inlaws are the exact same way -- although they will have a glass of wine or two at our house but never offer when we are eating with them at their house (their sons are the exact same way -- I have had to school my husband in the concept of "being a good host."). It's irritating, but more because it reflects a fear of pleasure in all aspects of their lives than their not drinking per se. They...+READ
My inlaws are the exact same way -- although they will have a glass of wine or two at our house but never offer when we are eating with them at their house (their sons are the exact same way -- I have had to school my husband in the concept of "being a good host."). It's irritating, but more because it reflects a fear of pleasure in all aspects of their lives than their not drinking per se. They also make little jabs at what I cook (and I am known to be a very good cook) -- they even thought roast chicken was adventurous and unusal. ROAST. CHICKEN. I have friends who don't drink and are unadventurous eaters, and it doesn't bother me to have them over like it does my inlaws because they are more gracious and not so Puritanical. Those friends aren't the kind of people who would make a fuss that I don't offer them, say, milk for their meal -- they would just ask for the milk. My inlaws were actually baffled when I mentioned I don't like milk and never drink it except in coffee, like "What do you drink with dinner then??"
I will say that as someone who is currently pregnant and thus not imbibing, you really notice a difference in people after two drinks, MAYBE three if the person is large or has a high tolerance. If I am dining with a nondrinker, I'll stop at one drink -- it's just not fun to have a bunch if you're drinking alone. And I always offer friends a choice of alcoholic and non when they come over, so people who aren't drinking don't feel they have to fend off booze or call attention to their not drinking. Like, "What can I get you to drink? We have fizzy water, iced tea, wine, beer..."-COLLAPSE
I'd like to know where Red Whine's husband stands in all of this. I think it's his job to manage the issue. Either he needs to tell his wife, "This is really important in my family. Can you compromise as a favor to me?" Or he needs to tell his parents that he's supportive of his wife and that her habits aren't harmful in his opinion. The in-laws would have an easier time accepting her drinking if...+READ
I'd like to know where Red Whine's husband stands in all of this. I think it's his job to manage the issue. Either he needs to tell his wife, "This is really important in my family. Can you compromise as a favor to me?" Or he needs to tell his parents that he's supportive of his wife and that her habits aren't harmful in his opinion. The in-laws would have an easier time accepting her drinking if they see their own son stand up for her. And the wife would have an easier time abstaining if she knew she was doing it for her partner rather than her in-laws.-COLLAPSE
Get hammered at every single meal your in-laws share with you. For spite!
What ever happened to respecting your elders? Unless the in-laws eat every meal with the Red Whine I don't think that it is unreasonable for her to appease them by reducing her wine intake. To me someone who feels that they can't have a meal without wine sounds like an alcoholic.
I'm from Glasgow Scotland, and if anyone ever decided 3 drinks was enough for me they'd get a 'Glasgow Kiss' (look it up at urban dictionary) and get told to 'pick a window' (again, look it up at urban dictionary)
in response to Livestrong4ever's comment above, what if the inlaws thought RW was drinking BECAUSE of their company?
I wonder if the inlaws ever enjoy alcoholic drinks (if they aren't staying away due to AA or health/religious/etc. reasons)... My mom is a non-drinker -- won't even taste a drop of anything, and she constantly harps on my dad whenever he has a beer or something @ a party. I...+READ
in response to Livestrong4ever's comment above, what if the inlaws thought RW was drinking BECAUSE of their company?
I wonder if the inlaws ever enjoy alcoholic drinks (if they aren't staying away due to AA or health/religious/etc. reasons)... My mom is a non-drinker -- won't even taste a drop of anything, and she constantly harps on my dad whenever he has a beer or something @ a party. I think its because she was introduced to alcohol with a drink she didn't like and then decided since she didn't like that one drink she won't like any type of alcohol. I'm in the process of changing that (every few weeks, i introduce another type of alcohol to the dinner table in the hopes she will eventually get curious). At the very least I'll get a well rounded introduction to good times!-COLLAPSE
Bottoms Up Baby!
You did say it was a Christmas meal, no?
Cause for celebration...no?
Next time finish the bottle!
They, the out-laws, should go elsewhere to "not" celebrate their Christmas.
Bob Dylan's famous song comes to mind..."Everybody must get..."....
cheers red red whine
It might not be the quantity (3+ glasses) but rather the quality of conversation and/or dinner that is what the In-Laws are objecting to. I think a lot of other commenters have brought up good points: (1) Is Red Whine the only person drinking at the table, (2) How does her husband feel about her behavior or speech by the end of the night? Another question to ask is: (3) Is this the only aspect of...+READ
It might not be the quantity (3+ glasses) but rather the quality of conversation and/or dinner that is what the In-Laws are objecting to. I think a lot of other commenters have brought up good points: (1) Is Red Whine the only person drinking at the table, (2) How does her husband feel about her behavior or speech by the end of the night? Another question to ask is: (3) Is this the only aspect of Red Whine that the In-Laws are disgusted or judgemental about? It might just be that Red Whine's not well-respected by them in general, and this is one specific, conspicuous issue they can point out because the other ones are more nebulous or general. It might just be that In-Laws are judgmental, pious or ascetic people who are provincial to a fault.-COLLAPSE
There's probably a reason why she needs to drink when her in-laws are over! Poor lady...
In the future the author would do better to consult a doctor or other trained medical professional when she is seeking a medical opinion such as how three glasses of wine effects the body. Helena's choices of "expert" testimony (yoga & massage instructor, some unknown guy hanging out at a Muslim center, and some random Mormon lady) just doesn't cut it. If you want people to care what you write...+READ
In the future the author would do better to consult a doctor or other trained medical professional when she is seeking a medical opinion such as how three glasses of wine effects the body. Helena's choices of "expert" testimony (yoga & massage instructor, some unknown guy hanging out at a Muslim center, and some random Mormon lady) just doesn't cut it. If you want people to care what you write then take care to write informed information for your readers.-COLLAPSE
I think "table manners" means behaving so that you're considerate of your other table companions.
I don't think drinking 1 or 3 glasses of wine is really the core of the issue, but it cuts both ways - the in-laws shouldn't be criticizing and the hostess shouldn't be drinking so much. Kind of like you shouldn't finish your meal before everyone else at your table, even if you like to wolf it...+READ
I think "table manners" means behaving so that you're considerate of your other table companions.
I don't think drinking 1 or 3 glasses of wine is really the core of the issue, but it cuts both ways - the in-laws shouldn't be criticizing and the hostess shouldn't be drinking so much. Kind of like you shouldn't finish your meal before everyone else at your table, even if you like to wolf it down. But lots of people don't have good manners, and that's fine, just don't confuse what you're doing - if it offends someone else - with having good manners.
So IMHO in this situation, good manners would say don't drink when he in-laws are over. A reasonable position without regard for manners would be it's my house I can do what I want, and that's reasonable too.-COLLAPSE
I do not feel that we have the whole story and therefore I cannot make a valid judgement.
Alcohol tolerance varies- according to height, weight and of course if you have built up tolerance by drinking regularly.
Is it possible that the woman in question drank responsibly by prolonging the 3 drinks over a long dinner, not filling the glasses to the brim and knowing her limit? Yes.
Is it also...+READ
I do not feel that we have the whole story and therefore I cannot make a valid judgement.
Alcohol tolerance varies- according to height, weight and of course if you have built up tolerance by drinking regularly.
Is it possible that the woman in question drank responsibly by prolonging the 3 drinks over a long dinner, not filling the glasses to the brim and knowing her limit? Yes.
Is it also possible that the woman in question drank too much too quickly and is not aware of when she has had too much? Yes.
In all honesty I have felt uncomfortable around people who have more than 2 drinks during a single meal because they ended up showing signs of inibriation. (The only exception to this is a friend who is 6'2 and weighs 250 and couldn't get drunk if he tried) Also, even if someone doesn't act drunk does not mean that their actions/thoughts aren't impaired- just try taking a DUI test after 3 drinks, even if they were spread apart over the course of a meal.
Every person is different in a situation like this, but in general I do believe that 3 drinks over a course of 1 meal in many cases (not all but many) may be cause for concern....in either case, I would not drive home with this person and she should not be driving at all.-COLLAPSE
My gracious. You are describing MY INLAWS. I am 67 yrs old so you know they are ancient. They are down-to-earth non-sopisticated folks and I love them (22 yrs. married to their only son). They also don't understand why we would spend more than $7 for lunch or $10 at dinner out. I drink daily and so does my husband, though we are never out of control. o.k. perhaps on occasion. The older they get,...+READ
My gracious. You are describing MY INLAWS. I am 67 yrs old so you know they are ancient. They are down-to-earth non-sopisticated folks and I love them (22 yrs. married to their only son). They also don't understand why we would spend more than $7 for lunch or $10 at dinner out. I drink daily and so does my husband, though we are never out of control. o.k. perhaps on occasion. The older they get, the more rigid they are about diet, politics and religion to name a few topics. Since they live 6 hours away, our solution is to drink when they are in our home but not drink in theirs. If we go out when we are in their territory we will have a beer or glass of wine or a cocktail or two. If the subject comes up, I just refuse to get into a discussion and change the subject or leave the room. My husband never confronts anyone directly but charms them into nice. Some folks just think they know how everyone else should live. I don't agree.-COLLAPSE
I think it depends on exactly how long your dinner lasts and whether 3 glasses are full to the brim or filled appropriately. If your dinner is about and hour then 3 glasses is enough to make the average woman drunk. A non-drunk tends to perceive drunks as being stupid and not good conversationalists leading to not much fun for the guests. Surely you've have this experience yourself on some...+READ
I think it depends on exactly how long your dinner lasts and whether 3 glasses are full to the brim or filled appropriately. If your dinner is about and hour then 3 glasses is enough to make the average woman drunk. A non-drunk tends to perceive drunks as being stupid and not good conversationalists leading to not much fun for the guests. Surely you've have this experience yourself on some occasion, unless of course you're the drunkest chick at the bar. That being said, everyone in my family is a rampaging drunk at holiday parties, we got out the breathalyser for kicks last year, and my cousin read 0.3---we still have no idea how she was conscious. I abstain, and as stated above as a non-drunk tend to perceive the drunks as stupid, and yet I find them amusing in their stupidity. I suspect that your in-laws actually respect you or are attempting to respect you rather than laugh at your stupidity. Not everyone is so cold-hearted as me in enjoying the failings of others.-COLLAPSE
Red Whine describes her in-laws as "boring teetotalers" and laters asks "are they uncivilized?"
It sounds like there is an awful lot of judgment going on, in both directions.
Frankly, if you were a smoker when they visited, they were probably overwhealmed by the absorbed in everything cigarette smell as soon as they came in. As a non-smoker, I find smoker's houses and cars vrey uncomfortable to be in.
But if you want to visit the person, you have to be prepared to deal with their habits. As long as they are polite in them, so you should be in being arount them.
If Red Whine is having several glasses of wine a day on a regular basis, her tolerance is probably such that she's not visibly impaired after the same amount. It seems, with the information provided, that her in-laws are being far too judgmental.
I agree that if someone is in recovery, it would be best to ask if they're comfortable with your consumption. Otherwise, if you're at my house, we're...+READ
If Red Whine is having several glasses of wine a day on a regular basis, her tolerance is probably such that she's not visibly impaired after the same amount. It seems, with the information provided, that her in-laws are being far too judgmental.
I agree that if someone is in recovery, it would be best to ask if they're comfortable with your consumption. Otherwise, if you're at my house, we're doing it my way. At your house? You get to make the rules.
When I used to smoke in my house and a non-smoker or guests with children were there, I'd go outside or back to my bedroom. My smoking would definitely be something that could be harmful to their health or comfort. That's different. Unless you're jamming a funnel down the in-laws' throats and forcing them to imbibe with you, what you choose to do is not their concern. They don't have to accept your invitation.-COLLAPSE
I can't drink for health reasons and I've experienced the other side of the issue: people who are drinking try to make me feel bad for not drinking, or assume I'm judging them and immediately get uncomfortable around me. I have no problem with drinking--I'm pretty nostalgic about my social drinking days--but environments/group cultures where the focus is drinking and everyone _has to_ drink can...+READ
I can't drink for health reasons and I've experienced the other side of the issue: people who are drinking try to make me feel bad for not drinking, or assume I'm judging them and immediately get uncomfortable around me. I have no problem with drinking--I'm pretty nostalgic about my social drinking days--but environments/group cultures where the focus is drinking and everyone _has to_ drink can be just toxic as a room full of (the judgmental sort of) teetotalers.
Less judgment on both ends seems to be the answer.-COLLAPSE
Does your husband join you when you drink? I could see their discomfort if you are the only one drinking with dinner. I enjoy a pre-dinner cocktail and a glass or two with dinner; maybe even a nice limoncello or the like as a digestif. But if no one else is joining me, I will refrain.
I don't drink b/c of health issues, but it would never occur to me to ask the company I'm with to refrain from drinking or to make comments about it or to keep tabs on the amount of liquor someone is having. Perhaps it's the company I keep, but there has never been an issue in terms of people I socialize with getting drunk and making a scene or drinking to the point where they shouldn't be...+READ
I don't drink b/c of health issues, but it would never occur to me to ask the company I'm with to refrain from drinking or to make comments about it or to keep tabs on the amount of liquor someone is having. Perhaps it's the company I keep, but there has never been an issue in terms of people I socialize with getting drunk and making a scene or drinking to the point where they shouldn't be driving, etc. People who are this rigid about drinking are just as bad as vegetarians who feel superior to non-vegetarians. But if you know someone is a recovering alcoholic, then yes, you should be sensitive to that, and I think it's very thoughtful to ask that person in private if it's okay for you to drink in front of him or her.-COLLAPSE
I know the problem well.
How is your husband with it - is he a mommy's boy? He needs to tell his mother that you are having fun and being yourself - especially during the holidays. If she cannot accept that - then just marry me and we will have fun together!
Change in-laws.
We're only getting half the story--Red Whine's. Perhaps her in-laws are judgmental old bats. Perhaps her three drinks indeed don't "...cause [her] to lose control," but that may not be the issue--there's a lot of ground between loss of control and visibly under the influence. This is a case where I'd like to hear RW's in-laws state their side.
My god! What self absorbed people are these? If someone takes an extreme such as NO imbibing, they should never thrust their beliefs on anyone else. If they have to appear as "frightened" that someone might of had too much to drink, and disclose this to someone else behind that drinkers back, it sounds like that person, or persons, would like to cause a good amount of trouble in that...+READ
My god! What self absorbed people are these? If someone takes an extreme such as NO imbibing, they should never thrust their beliefs on anyone else. If they have to appear as "frightened" that someone might of had too much to drink, and disclose this to someone else behind that drinkers back, it sounds like that person, or persons, would like to cause a good amount of trouble in that relationship. We go this through this life once, I don't think it's right to have to be under the cold eyes of a judgemental couple of self rightous soured souls.
Just my opinion....-COLLAPSE