On the Rise

Dear Helena,

Do you always have to stand up when greeting or saying goodbye to a dinner companion? Sometimes it can be difficult if you’re wedged in tightly. Also, my mother taught me that the male guests should stand up when a woman leaves the table and when she returns. Is this now considered outmoded, like opening the door for women? —Stands on Ceremony

Dear Stands on Ceremony,

You should almost always rise when other guests arrive or depart. It’s a symbolic act of respect. Plus, standing serves a practical purpose: Kissing or hugging someone from a seated position is awkward. Jodi Smith, president of Mannersmith, an etiquette consulting firm, and author of From Clueless to Class Act, explains, “If you shake hands across the table, you might knock something over or set your elbow on fire.” Even if you’re in the middle of eating, you should get up (if you’ve got something in your mouth, swallow it first). Once you’ve offered your hug or handshake, sit down.

Sometimes it’s inconvenient to physically greet someone. Perhaps you’re in a large group and it would be too time-consuming for the approaching party to shake everyone’s hand. Or maybe you’re boxed in. Instead, do a half rise—just enough for you to shake out the wrinkles in your trousers. Rodes Fishburne, a San Francisco writer with exquisite manners, says he always makes the effort, even if he can only rise a few inches: “It’s a choreographed way of saying, ‘I think you’re worthy of me getting to my feet.’” If the table edge truly has you pinioned in your seat, then just say, “Sorry I can’t get up.”

But what about the issue of men rising if a woman leaves, temporarily, to go to the bathroom or something? Many believe this custom originated when a man always stood to pull out a lady’s chair. “Women were seen as frail flowers too weak to do it themselves,” Smith says. Personally, I find that this kind of chivalry goes hand in hand with sexism. The last time I saw men stand for women in this way was when I was an undergraduate at Oxford University, a place where my professor thought nothing of telling me he’d admitted the women in the year below for their looks.

So while I don’t expect a bathroom rise, when I called around, I was surprised to find that some women do—at least on special occasions. Even Cameron Tuttle, author of The Bad Girl’s Guides and advocate of using a condom as a ponytail holder, says, “It’s honoring a woman in a way we’re not honored these days.” So be aware that in more buttoned-up settings, some women will think it’s classy if you get up for them.

There’s no need to do it at McDonald’s or brunch. Save the gesture for dinner at a swanky restaurant, or any occasion that requires cocktail attire. Unless you’re in black tie, a half rise will suffice.

You need get up only for your date and/or for a woman sitting next to you, and only the first time she excuses herself from the table. Otherwise, it could get awkward. What if she has an upset stomach, a coke habit, or bulimia? It’s best not to draw attention to the length and frequency of a woman’s breaks.

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POST A COMMENT |18 Comments

COMMENT

  • I love it when a gentleman opens the door for me, and I was quite embarrassed when the "lady" I was heading to lunch with snarled at a male stranger for holding the door open. Nobody thinks you're weak or whatever. He's just being friendly.

  • So being chivalrous is sexist now? Wow. Men can barely be polite without being considered sexist now. I personally find it ridiculous. My wife love it when i do chivalrous things.

  • I'm always appreciative of those who would hold a door open for me, and I do for them, men or women. Chivalry goes both ways. It's called kindness.

  • I laughed out loud at the upset stomach, coke habit or bulimia line. That's extremely good, versatile advice.

    The door thing is so tricky! Some women think it's insulting to open a door, and some think it's insulting not to. I'd say give it a test drive on the first date. I recently dated someone briefly who let it swing closed behind him-- didn't even hand it to me-- and it was so off-putting....+READ

    I laughed out loud at the upset stomach, coke habit or bulimia line. That's extremely good, versatile advice.

    The door thing is so tricky! Some women think it's insulting to open a door, and some think it's insulting not to. I'd say give it a test drive on the first date. I recently dated someone briefly who let it swing closed behind him-- didn't even hand it to me-- and it was so off-putting. I hold the door for anyone who's carrying something, but for a man who's not carrying something, I just hand him the door. It's tricky too, but it seems like more men are comfortable with this than having the door held. If someone holds a door for me, he gets a big, genuine smile. For me, gender equality is not about pretending men and women can ever be the same-- it's about respecting our innate differences and learning to interact successfully within those parameters.-COLLAPSE

  • i partially agree with bagdoodle.. while not all women should be categorised as he stated.. most should.. and i would like to add would a woman who REQUIRES and demands Equality.. stand up for me? the answer is no. if you miss chivalry so much the next time you see me heading towards the door.. open it for me. and i will thank you by doing the same for someone else out there.

  • Just what, exactly is there to respect about women that men should afford them any special treatment at all? Being a woman is not an accomplishment, but an accident of birth. If such an accident is a cause for respect, then, given that we all have such an accident, whether to the male or female side, then everyone deserves respect for it. When women start showing any gender-based courtesy to men...+READ

    Just what, exactly is there to respect about women that men should afford them any special treatment at all? Being a woman is not an accomplishment, but an accident of birth. If such an accident is a cause for respect, then, given that we all have such an accident, whether to the male or female side, then everyone deserves respect for it. When women start showing any gender-based courtesy to men whatsoever, I'll consider showing some to them. In the meantime, regarding the comparison to holding a door, someone should teach women to say "Thank you". Most of the time they just pass through saying nothing at all-COLLAPSE

  • my motto is that when another chic comes in, she'll get a nice big smile, but my bum is not moving - same with a dude BUT when an elderly person arrives, then I'll stand and aid them to their seat or at least feign the 'about to aid you' to their seat :) it's nice if guys can stand up all the time but hey, chivalry is dead, ne? too bad

  • I appreciate good manners and I don't mind at all (and don't perceive it as sexist) if a man stands when I leave the table. It's much better than the behavior I witnessed at a restaurant the other evening. A couple was seated at a table they didn't want, so the host came over to take them to another table. The man stood up, walked away from his companion and seated himself at the new table...+READ

    I appreciate good manners and I don't mind at all (and don't perceive it as sexist) if a man stands when I leave the table. It's much better than the behavior I witnessed at a restaurant the other evening. A couple was seated at a table they didn't want, so the host came over to take them to another table. The man stood up, walked away from his companion and seated himself at the new table without even looking to see if she was coming or not. If it had been me, I would have gone straight to the door and kept going. Life is too short to hang out with people who have the manners of a goat.-COLLAPSE

  • One of my male friends is always very good about standing up when a lady leaves the table and I find that very polite, but he would also pull out and push in your chair if you are next to him. He was just brought up to be very gentile to women out of respect.

    In DC the stand to greet is essential, but we are a city of handshakers and cheek kissers... We might follow more formal rules than most...+READ

    One of my male friends is always very good about standing up when a lady leaves the table and I find that very polite, but he would also pull out and push in your chair if you are next to him. He was just brought up to be very gentile to women out of respect.

    In DC the stand to greet is essential, but we are a city of handshakers and cheek kissers... We might follow more formal rules than most cities do.

    I can see the comparison for holding the door for a lady. At least a lot of the men I know personally not only hold the door open for the next person or family, but will purposely walk in front of a lady to open her door for her and if she has kids or a stroller you better believe there is a dash to open and hold it open for them. Of course once you become more familiar with someone these rules can lapse some... Again though very formal city here who cares about appearances...-COLLAPSE

  • I don't understand the original comparison with holding a door. Who doesn't hold the door for the next person? I know sometimes men hold the door in an overly formal way for women, but even that doesn't seem half as archaic as standing when a woman goes to powder her nose. Maybe it's regional.

  • OMG, I laughed at the coke and Catholic Mass remark and had a great visual! So funny!

    When I met my husband I was so impressed that he stood when I left the table and came back. For a first impression, he was spot on. A very nice practice for gentlement to do IMHO. But I think a good point is brought up, it could look rather like "pop goes the weasle" when the table becomes crowded or someone...+READ

    OMG, I laughed at the coke and Catholic Mass remark and had a great visual! So funny!

    When I met my husband I was so impressed that he stood when I left the table and came back. For a first impression, he was spot on. A very nice practice for gentlement to do IMHO. But I think a good point is brought up, it could look rather like "pop goes the weasle" when the table becomes crowded or someone goes to the loo alot. Also, I wonder if anyone has been in the situation that they chose to remain seated and others stood or did the half stand stoop? Another question, is that coming from pretty formal parents that insisted we have good manners no matter where we were, I was not trained to stand up for another woman unless she was somewhat older, Is that wrong?-COLLAPSE

  • Too funny -- when was this item posted? I *just* read the same Q and similar A in this month's advice column of Playboy (I only read it for the articles, natch).

    The important point that both columns mentioned -- you do not want to alert the entire restaurant every time your partner departs for the bathroom. Indeed, 'half rise' from the chair is sufficiently polite.

    I, too, thought the...+READ

    Too funny -- when was this item posted? I *just* read the same Q and similar A in this month's advice column of Playboy (I only read it for the articles, natch).

    The important point that both columns mentioned -- you do not want to alert the entire restaurant every time your partner departs for the bathroom. Indeed, 'half rise' from the chair is sufficiently polite.

    I, too, thought the 'coke habit etc' line was pretty funny. Some people do have to 'go' quite frequently, for a number of reasons, legitimate and/or self-induced...

    barcelona -- your line of reasoning has nothing whatsoever to do with etiquette. Rules of social behaviour, and their observance, are what separate the refined and gracious from the ignorant and obnoxious.

    Matt S -- huh! I never thought of that!! That's hilarious!-COLLAPSE

  • "What if she has an upset stomach, a coke habit, or bulimia?"

    Personally I found that hilarious. Sit! Stand! Kneel! Just like Catholic Mass. And there's nothing funnier than doing coke at Mass.

  • Do what pleases you !!! Why? well because if you do something INORDER to then there is an underlying reason why you are doing it.. to get somewhere or get something. Do it because you want to and NOT because you have to / or inorder to get something or somewhere....

  • I think I'm getting dizzy from all this standing and sitting. Honestly, the only time I stand is out of respect to an elderly person who's arriving or leaving or at a business luncheon/dinner where things are a bit more formal. Otherwise, in social situations, we all remain seated.

  • I thought the "coke habit, etc." remark was kind of funny, and reveals a good point.

  • What if she has an upset stomach, a coke habit, or bulimia?
    That was crass and uncalled-for. I'm a young person, and all for irreverent, hip media, but that was just trashy. And I don't want to hear about honoring a woman from someone who uses a condom as a hair accessory.

  • I hate it when I happen to have a mouthful just right when someone leaves or arrives. Besides standing up I can't greet them properly!